GW 2 Devs/Playerbase Twitter Discussion

[Dengar.1785]

@Ardid.7203 said:

@Dengar.1785 said:

@Ardid.7203 said:Lets just celebrate another triumph of the mob mentality. At this point we could even make a drinking game of it...It clear nobody listened to Ventari in this.

Why do people keep blaming mob mentality for an employee’s own failures? The mob didn’t make Anet fire them, they themselves did.

If that were true, they wouldn't have fired the second dev. And they would have fired her way sooner, not now. Anet acted because the mob, nothing else.

First: Why not? Second, if they fired her any sooner than they did it would be before she even had a chance to do wrong.

[Cyninja.2954]

@Ardid.7203 said:

@Dengar.1785 said:

@Ardid.7203 said:Lets just celebrate another triumph of the mob mentality. At this point we could even make a drinking game of it...It clear nobody listened to Ventari in this.

Why do people keep blaming mob mentality for an employee’s own failures? The mob didn’t make Anet fire them, they themselves did.

If that were true, they wouldn't have fired the second dev. And they would have fired her way sooner, not now. Anet acted because the mob, nothing else.

Sure they might have, if it hadn't been for holidays and time zone differences. What else you got?

[Ashen.2907]

@Ardid.7203 said:

@Dengar.1785 said:

@Ardid.7203 said:Lets just celebrate another triumph of the mob mentality. At this point we could even make a drinking game of it...It clear nobody listened to Ventari in this.

Why do people keep blaming mob mentality for an employee’s own failures? The mob didn’t make Anet fire them, they themselves did.

If that were true, they wouldn't have fired the second dev. And they would have fired her way sooner, not now. Anet acted because the mob, nothing else.

I woulld not be surprised to learn that the second dev was fired in order to reduce the possibility of a wrongful termination lawsuit. Disciplining both participants in the situation equally demonstrates that the terminations were not targeted at a protected classification.

[Dengar.1785]

You know this is under the assumption that they were immediately fired, and not let go with several months pay.

[Deihnyx.6318]

@MorrisG.3681 said:

@Deihnyx.6318 said:

@MorrisG.3681 said:It's really sad to see Arenanet do a heel turn like this. Firing someone on the spot is not something that's acceptable, or even legal, where I live. I'm usually a part of the very silent majority but I felt I had to express my disappointment, even if I'm just farting into the wind. I'm a player and a fan, and this is my meager attempt at showing we're not all whiny children, I guess. I really shouldn't have to say this, but since Deroir taught us we can be as condescending as we want towards Anet, here goes:

Really interesting firing! However, allow me to disagree

slightly

with how you've handled this. Some companies, when they're unhappy with how their employees act, try to

talk

with their employees to work out a solution. If this proves difficult, try picking a different dialogue option. Make them issue a public apology. You can do that, you know. You're the boss! Great, isn't it? If they refuse to apologise, you can even do it for them! Of course, if that's the case you might want to issue a warning, let them know this sort of thing isn't appreciated. Over in my end of the world, silly little socialist Europe, it's the law to issue written warnings. (A written warning is a warning that's written down, for example on a piece of paper.) I guess you don't have to over there, but I still think it's a decent thing to do, don't you? And the cool thing is, if it happens again, then you actually have cause to fire them! Without coming off as a word that's not allowed on the forum! Boy oh boy, treating people like people sure is exhausting. Nonetheless, super interesting the way you treat your employees like trash! (End)

So first, given this is your first post to this forum I guess you're reacting after reading some of these awfully one sided articles from video game medias.Let me just show you how much of a fan of that specific dev this Deroir that you're calling "condescending" was:

https://clips.twitch.tv/CrypticMistyStingrayDxCat

Done before the whole incident. Since people like you are calling people guilty until proven innocent (something that HEY, doesn't fly AT ALL in your dear Europe :) ) here's a hard factual proof that the guy admired that dev. You're falling for the "condescending" argument like many other, but that's an agenda pushed right at your face.

Next, for this "legality" and "morality" issue you're talking about.There's nothing illegal, or even remotely unacceptable about that. At all. I work in IT in the US and just like Anet, my company would never let me talk kitten to our consumers. I would get fired, and rightfully so. It actually happened to one of my colleagues last year (male).-And- I lived in Europe before, in France particularly. A country where people go on strike for barely any reason and socialism is still strong. Well... the same clause applied the company I worked for. It's considered a "serious fault" and you can be fired for that. Common sense people.

You don't know that "internal" talking didn't take place, nobody knows, we can only assume. Usually it's good not to assume the worst.But ultimately, even if there was no discussion, someone who damaged the company that badly can totally be fired. For the second dev it's a bit more of a grey area I'll admit.

I wish all the people that create an account here just now would actually take the time to learn both sides of the story. The WP video is actually pretty great for that, because pretty neutral.

Look man, you do you. If you feel Arenanet was morally in the right, then that's your opinion and that's fine. It's clear we disagree on workers rights. But you are doing an awful lot of assuming for someone who claims to care about facts. First off, this may be my first post, but I've been lurking for years. I've played the game for years. I read that first, outraged thread on Reddit when it started and I've been following this thing since then. Normally, that would be it for me. But because the "fanbase" have been so ridiculously one-sided on this, I felt I had to give my take. You had no way of knowing this, naturally, and yet you assumed something out of the blue because it fit your own narrative. You were doing precisely what you accuse the media of doing.

Second, I can't refute your claim on specific laws in France, even if it sounds unlikely to me. But in Norway, you need to issue at least two warnings (IIRC) before you're allowed to fire someone, one of which needs to be in writing. There's a lot more to it than that, also. So, just to be clear, this sort of thing would most definitely be illegal over here. True, we don't know what happened behind closed doors but MO presented it a certain way in his post and that's what I'm going off.

On Deroirs comment being condescending: That was meant mostly to illustrate how his comment was read. He may not have intended it to be condescending, but he most definitely came off as it. I consider that to be largely irrelevant to this whole issue, though. If he liked the devs in question so much, maybe he should have contacted Arenanet and settled this whole thing out of the public eye. After all, he was the sole wronged party here, not the dogpiling angry "fans" on reddit. He could have prevented this from escalating, but didn't.

Sorry for assuming you're coming here just from reading mainstream news. But you were kinda repeating some of things said out there without complete, unbiased facts. I stand corrected.

"He may not have intended it to be condescending, but he most definitely came off as it." is just your opinion, there's no "most definitely" since so many people (native english speakers) disagree. This opinion is clearly in minority in regards of that "one-sided community" you're criticizing. Also, as usual with in this modern era, feelings are seemingly more important than the factual message or even the intent, which is a bit silly. In DOUBT, you don't scream guilty until proven innocent. It's the other way around."One sided community" is also not true. There are people disagreeing within the community, like you. It's just that the majority doesn't agree with you, but that doesn't mean the community is automatically wrong.

We can keep debating about what's legal in Europe, it doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things. And it also doesn't mean that Europe is necessarily right with what they're doing. Europe doesn't get the free card "high ground of morality" just because the laws are different there.If an employee becomes a problem to a company, it will impact sales and the workplace. I don't believe an employee should get a free pass if they commit severe fault. Whether this one can be considered severe or not is up to debate, but to me, since SHE kept on doing with her ridiculous claims, and never shown one sign of willingness to admit that her assumption was wrong and that she had made a mistake, that's when it became problematic.

And nice twist trying to turn things around and make it sounds like Deroir is responsible for not acting in order to fix all this. I'm sorry but that's just ridiculous. It was the dev's job to apologize when she realized she went too far. When you make a mistake you kinda have to own it like an adult. She kept on going, retweeted the drama outside of the conversation, adding insult to it and THEN it became a community issue. That you don't feel offended by that doesn't mean nobody did.

It's just absolutely insane to blame someone for being apparently "condescending" (which again, most people will disagree with you) but completely omitting all the swearing and just straight out rudeness that came out of it, and then blaming the community over it. Enough.

[Vlad Morbius.1759]

@Ardid.7203 said:> If that were true, they wouldn't have fired the second dev. And they would have fired her way sooner, not now. Anet acted because the mob, nothing else.That's just assumption on your part and everyone else' trying to defend the two in question. Only Anet and those present during the firing know all the reasons this happened. For all anyone knows they could both have many strikes against them prior none of which Anet should ever make public. People need to just let it go and allow all those involved to move on with their own lives and stop speculating because that's all it is or ever will be!

[Deihnyx.6318]

@Ardid.7203 said:

@Dengar.1785 said:

@Ardid.7203 said:Lets just celebrate another triumph of the mob mentality. At this point we could even make a drinking game of it...It clear nobody listened to Ventari in this.

Why do people keep blaming mob mentality for an employee’s own failures? The mob didn’t make Anet fire them, they themselves did.

If that were true, they wouldn't have fired the second dev. And they would have fired her way sooner, not now. Anet acted because the mob, nothing else.

A community can have an impact on how a game company react? BIG NEWS.That doesn't mean they're wrong.

Calling them "mobs" isn't an argument either.

[ponytheguardian.7439]

@"Harper.4173" said:...show us how much you play/have played the game.Hi it me, your friendly neighbour new guy! /wave

Pony The Guardian / GW2 EUTjanz Firenze / GW2 NAAikiko Kuwahari / GW1 acc1Beautyful Bloodvein / GW1 acc2

Am sorry, I just had to...

[Scud.5067]

@ponytheguardian.7439 said:

@"Harper.4173" said:...show us how much you play/have played the game.Hi it me, your friendly

neighbour

new guy! /wave

Pony The Guardian / GW2 EU

Tjanz Firenze / GW2 NA

Aikiko Kuwahari / GW1 acc1

Beautyful Bloodvein / GW1 acc2

Am sorry, I just had to...

FAKE TOONS! =) ;)

[CZaR.8935]

THANK YOU A NET

RIP TOTAL BISCUIT

[IndigoSundown.5419]

@"Ardid.7203" said:

If that were true, they wouldn't have fired the second dev. And they would have fired her way sooner, not now. Anet acted because the mob, nothing else.

There are certainly multiple factors involved in the situation. To state that "nothing else" motivated the firings ignores all but one factor. If you look at the sequence of events, it looks like this.

• Ms. Price posts thoughts on game writing.
• Deroir posts disagreement and offers an alternate view.
• Ms. Price plays the pro card.
• Deroir expresses feelings, apologizes and bows out.
• Other posters chime in, attempting to take Ms. Price to task for her reaction.
• Later, perhaps as a result of others not letting the issue rest, or perhaps for other reasons, Ms. Price continues to comment on the issue. In doing so, she uses language and makes comments that some find objectionable. She is again challenged, and defends her right to say what she wants in her Twitter feed.
• On the day after a national holiday, ANet management and staff return to work. ANet acted that day. Given the holiday, and given the need to gather facts (how long did it take us to sort out what happened and to filter out all the "selective reporting" that has taken place in this thread alone), ANet acted quite swiftly.

Then, there are meta-factors to consider.

• Ms. Price chose to make her Twitter feed publicly available, perhaps because if her intent (as has been reported) is to "speak truth to power." you need a public platform to do so.
• So, all of the discussion we know about took place in a publicly-available space. Given that, it was inevitable that there would be comments from those viewing what took place. After all, that's commonplace on the internet, and anyone who uses the internet ought to understand this.
• Given the publicly-available nature of the feed, it was inevitable that the situation would spread to other platforms (Reddit, here, and later to gaming news sites).
• On the internet, everyone has an opinion, and many choose to express theirs.

There is a chain of causation which led to ANet's actions. Sure, there would be no bad PR if no one noticed. However, if you're looking for a single cause, you have to look at whether any single action/choice would have stopped the inevitable chain of events from progressing. If you want to blame the public, blame those who would not let Price's playing of the pro card be the end of the situation. We will never know if Ms. Price would have moved on if that hadn't happened, but I suspect that others not letting it go added to her feeling stressed and that her feeling that there was a violation of what she (wrongly or rightly) believed to be her personal space.

I will not excuse Ms. Price for her choice of how she presented her message, but I do understand it. There are times you have to shock people top get them to notice your point. However, I believe that she chose the wrong time, and the wrong issue. Given what happened, I see the whole chain of events being sadly inevitable, with only a couple of places -- early on -- where the chain could have been either prevented from starting or interrupted.

[mewbee.6489]

@Dengar.1785 said:

@mewbee.6489 said:I never thought i would post on a GW2 forum, I never even thought I would play GW2, but here I am. My partner has been playing for years and eventually wore me down. I just started playing a couple of weeks ago and I am obsessed. The story keeps getting better and better.

I just wanted to express my disappointment about this Jessica Price deal. The language that the fan chose while correcting Jessica was condescending, and I don't understand why this is even a thing people are arguing about. He might not have been aware of it, or intended it, but I think it was her full right to call him out on it. From what we have heard, this twitter rant is the reason Jessica and Fries were fired. Ive tried to see this from Arenanets side but i just cannot support it. I can't agree with a company trying to silence their employees. This was a woman tired of men trying to explain to her how to do her job, she defended herself and her work at arenanet, and got fired for it. I do not think calling a fan an kitten is a legitimate reason to fire someone. They should have defended their staff.

For the bajillionth time...

Which part was condescending? Where is your evidence? I’m getting so sick and tired of accusations without evidence.

Furthermore, he wasn’t just any old fan, he was a partnered content creator. And even without that, bullying your customer, especially without provocation, will get you fired

amywhere

.

You haven't corrected ME a bajillion times. Maybe Jessica has been corrected a bajillion times on how to do her work, maybe that's why she reacted the way she did. And you seem to be able to take your frustration out on people openly on forums without getting canned, you can even do it a bajillion times! Btw, how is what she said bullying? Like you said, he is not just a fan, he is a grown ass man who works in the same industry and should be able to take criticism on his language use. Just like she should, without getting fired.I know I'm not getting anywhere with this, you obviously do not understand how what he said what condescending, and how this is a commonly reoccurring theme in being a woman in, well, any industry.

[Scud.5067]

@mewbee.6489 said:

@Dengar.1785 said:

@mewbee.6489 said:I never thought i would post on a GW2 forum, I never even thought I would play GW2, but here I am. My partner has been playing for years and eventually wore me down. I just started playing a couple of weeks ago and I am obsessed. The story keeps getting better and better.

I just wanted to express my disappointment about this Jessica Price deal. The language that the fan chose while correcting Jessica was condescending, and I don't understand why this is even a thing people are arguing about. He might not have been aware of it, or intended it, but I think it was her full right to call him out on it. From what we have heard, this twitter rant is the reason Jessica and Fries were fired. Ive tried to see this from Arenanets side but i just cannot support it. I can't agree with a company trying to silence their employees. This was a woman tired of men trying to explain to her how to do her job, she defended herself and her work at arenanet, and got fired for it. I do not think calling a fan an kitten is a legitimate reason to fire someone. They should have defended their staff.

For the bajillionth time...

Which part was condescending? Where is your evidence? I’m getting so sick and tired of accusations without evidence.

Furthermore, he wasn’t just any old fan, he was a partnered content creator. And even without that, bullying your customer, especially without provocation, will get you fired

amywhere

.

You haven't corrected ME a bajillion times. Maybe Jessica has been corrected a bajillion times on how to do her work, maybe that's why she reacted the way she did. And you seem to be able to take your frustration out on people openly on forums without getting canned, you can even do it a bajillion times! Btw, how is what she said bullying? Like you said, he is not just a fan, he is a grown kitten man who works in the same industry and should be able to take criticism on his language use. Just like she should, without getting fired.I know I'm not getting anywhere with this, you obviously do not understand how what he said what condescending, and how this is a commonly reoccurring theme in being a woman in, well, any industry.

So.. nothing to show/explain how it was condescending? Ok.

[TexZero.7910]

@mewbee.6489 said:I know I'm not getting anywhere with this, you obviously do not understand how what he said what condescending, and how this is a commonly reoccurring theme in being a woman in, well, any industry.

Ah yes, because telekinesis yet again will help him understand your vantage rather than having a discussion and explaining.

Also, please explain how being a woman in any industry is relevant to this again ? The person who falsely brought gender into the equation was JP. Nothing before that had anything to do with Gender and was nothing more than an inquisitive fan stating an opinion and asking for input from a person who has more authority.

[Cyninja.2954]

@mewbee.6489 said:

@Dengar.1785 said:

@mewbee.6489 said:I never thought i would post on a GW2 forum, I never even thought I would play GW2, but here I am. My partner has been playing for years and eventually wore me down. I just started playing a couple of weeks ago and I am obsessed. The story keeps getting better and better.

I just wanted to express my disappointment about this Jessica Price deal. The language that the fan chose while correcting Jessica was condescending, and I don't understand why this is even a thing people are arguing about. He might not have been aware of it, or intended it, but I think it was her full right to call him out on it. From what we have heard, this twitter rant is the reason Jessica and Fries were fired. Ive tried to see this from Arenanets side but i just cannot support it. I can't agree with a company trying to silence their employees. This was a woman tired of men trying to explain to her how to do her job, she defended herself and her work at arenanet, and got fired for it. I do not think calling a fan an kitten is a legitimate reason to fire someone. They should have defended their staff.

For the bajillionth time...

Which part was condescending? Where is your evidence? I’m getting so sick and tired of accusations without evidence.

Furthermore, he wasn’t just any old fan, he was a partnered content creator. And even without that, bullying your customer, especially without provocation, will get you fired

amywhere

.

You haven't corrected ME a bajillion times. Maybe Jessica has been corrected a bajillion times on how to do her work, maybe that's why she reacted the way she did.

So taking out your frustration no matter if justified or not on customers is okay? Got you.

@mewbee.6489 said:And you seem to be able to take your frustration out on people openly on forums without getting canned, you can even do it a bajillion times!

Sure, he also hasn't:

• made public who he works for
• brought his work into the entire situation
• talked down to customers of his employer
• put his employer into a position to act in any way

@mewbee.6489 said:Btw, how is what she said bullying? Like you said, he is not just a fan, he is a grown kitten man who works in the same industry and should be able to take criticism on his language use.

You have not yet established that his language was worth criticizing. He is also not just any customer, he is an Arenanet content creator who was well enough established to have a NPC named after him and his reputation so far has been nothing but pleasant. He even apologized and backed away from the discussion.

Side note, so it's okay for him to toughen up but she is allowed to give in to her anger? How is that equal rights?

@mewbee.6489 said:Just like she should, without getting fired.I know I'm not getting anywhere with this, you obviously do not understand how what he said what condescending, and how this is a commonly reoccurring theme in being a woman in, well, any industry.

No, and maybe that is a major issue. But you are once again bringing the entire industry into this. People are already agreeing that women can have a hard/harder time (though male developers are not off the hook here so let's not pretend it's all peachy for one side).

People took offense to how she reacted which was completely over the top. Was it the drop that brought the basket to overflow? Very likely. Was it professional to attack a customer. No.

[Dengar.1785]

@mewbee.6489 said:

@Dengar.1785 said:

@mewbee.6489 said:I never thought i would post on a GW2 forum, I never even thought I would play GW2, but here I am. My partner has been playing for years and eventually wore me down. I just started playing a couple of weeks ago and I am obsessed. The story keeps getting better and better.

I just wanted to express my disappointment about this Jessica Price deal. The language that the fan chose while correcting Jessica was condescending, and I don't understand why this is even a thing people are arguing about. He might not have been aware of it, or intended it, but I think it was her full right to call him out on it. From what we have heard, this twitter rant is the reason Jessica and Fries were fired. Ive tried to see this from Arenanets side but i just cannot support it. I can't agree with a company trying to silence their employees. This was a woman tired of men trying to explain to her how to do her job, she defended herself and her work at arenanet, and got fired for it. I do not think calling a fan an kitten is a legitimate reason to fire someone. They should have defended their staff.

For the bajillionth time...

Which part was condescending? Where is your evidence? I’m getting so sick and tired of accusations without evidence.

Furthermore, he wasn’t just any old fan, he was a partnered content creator. And even without that, bullying your customer, especially without provocation, will get you fired

amywhere

.

You haven't corrected ME a bajillion times. Maybe Jessica has been corrected a bajillion times on how to do her work, maybe that's why she reacted the way she did. And you seem to be able to take your frustration out on people openly on forums without getting canned, you can even do it a bajillion times! Btw, how is what she said bullying? Like you said, he is not just a fan, he is a grown kitten man who works in the same industry and should be able to take criticism on his language use. Just like she should, without getting fired.I know I'm not getting anywhere with this, you obviously do not understand how what he said what condescending, and how this is a commonly reoccurring theme in being a woman in, well, any industry.

....I never took anything out on you. I merely expressed my frustration that people keep saying what you say without evidence. Which, if I might add, you still have not done. I also never called you names or took a condescending tone towards you.

[mewbee.6489]

@TexZero.7910 said:

@"mewbee.6489" said:The language that the fan chose while correcting Jessica was condescending, and I don't understand why this is even a thing people are arguing about.

Explain, elaborate....

Because literally nothing Derior said or asked about was stated in any form that can remotely be considered condescending. He was not speaking down toward her at any point, expressing a opposing viewpoint even if from an unqualified source doesn't make it any less valid a discussion to have.

You know what is condescending her replies. "Thanks for telling me what we do internally my dude 9_9" and the following "Today in being a female game dev Let me....etc."

If you put out a paper explaining your viewpoints, you as the "Authority in your field" had better have the cognitive faculties to understand and express with no need to attack the person why they are mistaken. A simple, "Hey Derior, that's an interesting point, we debate this internally a lot and have found that given or limited time scale from development to release we cannot feasiby have a robust branching dialogue system. We do understand the complex task of making the PC (Player Character) relevant and strive to hit that with every release we can."

Now how hard is that ? I ain't even a professional speaker, or social media expert....Crisis averted no mention of genitalia required, no snide and actually condescending remarks either.

Well, her comments were condescending to make her point, it was intentional. His comments were condescending because she was sharing how she worked on her personal twitter, and he was explaining basics on how to write story to her, like she did not already know this. This is probably not the only time this has happened either. She called him out on it, was rude, and got fired. I do understand your point, but the separation here is that I think she should be able to be rude to someone who is being condescending to her on her personal account without getting fired. It is going to be impossible to debate this if you cannot see how what he wrote was condescending.

[Ashen.2907]

@mewbee.6489 said:

@TexZero.7910 said:

@mewbee.6489 said:The language that the fan chose while correcting Jessica was condescending, and I don't understand why this is even a thing people are arguing about.

Explain, elaborate....

Because literally nothing Derior said or asked about was stated in any form that can remotely be considered condescending. He was not speaking down toward her at any point, expressing a opposing viewpoint even if from an unqualified source doesn't make it any less valid a discussion to have.

You know what is condescending her replies. "Thanks for telling me what we do internally my dude 9_9" and the following "Today in being a female game dev Let me....etc."

If you put out a paper explaining your viewpoints, you as the "Authority in your field" had better have the cognitive faculties to understand and express with no need to attack the person why they are mistaken. A simple, "Hey Derior, that's an interesting point, we debate this internally a lot and have found that given or limited time scale from development to release we cannot feasiby have a robust branching dialogue system. We do understand the complex task of making the PC (Player Character) relevant and strive to hit that with every release we can."

Now how hard is that ? I ain't even a professional speaker, or social media expert....Crisis averted no mention of genitalia required, no snide and actually condescending remarks either.

Well, her comments were condescending to make her point, it was intentional. His comments were condescending because she was sharing how she worked on her personal twitter, and he was explaining basics on how to write story to her, like she did not already know this. This is probably not the only time this has happened either. She called him out on it, was rude, and got fired. I do understand your point, but the separation here is that I think she should be able to be rude to someone who is being condescending to her on her personal account without getting fired. It is going to be impossible to debate this if you cannot see how what he wrote was condescending.

She stated that her point, regarding characters in an MMO, was an uncertainty.He, "slightly," disagreed with something that she admitted was not a certainty.

She blew up.

No condescension on his part.

[Dengar.1785]

@mewbee.6489 said:

@TexZero.7910 said:

@mewbee.6489 said:The language that the fan chose while correcting Jessica was condescending, and I don't understand why this is even a thing people are arguing about.

Explain, elaborate....

Because literally nothing Derior said or asked about was stated in any form that can remotely be considered condescending. He was not speaking down toward her at any point, expressing a opposing viewpoint even if from an unqualified source doesn't make it any less valid a discussion to have.

You know what is condescending her replies. "Thanks for telling me what we do internally my dude 9_9" and the following "Today in being a female game dev Let me....etc."

If you put out a paper explaining your viewpoints, you as the "Authority in your field" had better have the cognitive faculties to understand and express with no need to attack the person why they are mistaken. A simple, "Hey Derior, that's an interesting point, we debate this internally a lot and have found that given or limited time scale from development to release we cannot feasiby have a robust branching dialogue system. We do understand the complex task of making the PC (Player Character) relevant and strive to hit that with every release we can."

Now how hard is that ? I ain't even a professional speaker, or social media expert....Crisis averted no mention of genitalia required, no snide and actually condescending remarks either.

Well, her comments were condescending to make her point, it was intentional. His comments were condescending because she was sharing how she worked on her personal twitter, and he was explaining basics on how to write story to her, like she did not already know this. This is probably not the only time this has happened either. She called him out on it, was rude, and got fired. I do understand your point, but the separation here is that I think she should be able to be rude to someone who is being condescending to her on her personal account without getting fired. It is going to be impossible to debate this if you cannot see how what he wrote was condescending.

Calling him ‘my dude’ and ‘a random asshat’ and accusing him of sexism and harassment is more than just ‘being rude’. He also never, as you said, ‘explained the basics’. He simply disagreed with her assertion that the problem was inherent to mmorpgs. He then provided branching conversations as an example.

Even if his argument is flawed, she could have just explained why it was flawed.

[TexZero.7910]

@mewbee.6489 said:Well, her comments were condescending to make her point, it was intentional. His comments were condescending because she was sharing how she worked on her personal twitter, and he was explaining basics on how to write story to her, like she did not already know this. This is probably not the only time this has happened either. She called him out on it, was rude, and got fired. I do understand your point, but the separation here is that I think she should be able to be rude to someone who is being condescending to her on her personal account without getting fired. It is going to be impossible to debate this if you cannot see how what he wrote was condescending.

So you actually don't know what condescending is....You just made up a new definition to fit your narrative that he was.Gotcha.

Also, what sorta perversion of common decency do you believe in where it's perfectly fine for someone to abuse another just because it's happened before ? Last i checked we're not living in Ancient Babylon or Sumeria. Just because someone may have wronged her in the past does not and should never give credence to assaulting another verbally or otherwise.

[Jake Orion.2049]

@Dengar.1785 said:Calling him ‘my dude’ and ‘a random kitten’ and accusing him of sexism and harassment is more than just ‘being rude’. He also never, as you said, ‘explained the basics’. He simply disagreed with her assertion that the problem was inherent to mmorpgs. He then provided branching conversations as an example.

Even if his argument is flawed, she could have just explained why it was flawed.

From my view point, it seems she wasn't attacking just him, but the responses that followed after Deroir's (from what I've seen) last post. No matter which way you cut it, she escalated the situation with a series of poor responses well after he bowed out.

[Ardid.7203]

@Ardid.7203 said:

@Dengar.1785 said:

@Ardid.7203 said:Lets just celebrate another triumph of the mob mentality. At this point we could even make a drinking game of it...It clear nobody listened to Ventari in this.

Why do people keep blaming mob mentality for an employee’s own failures? The mob didn’t make Anet fire them, they themselves did.

If that were true, they wouldn't have fired the second dev. And they would have fired her way sooner, not now. Anet acted because the mob, nothing else.

It seems I'm not expressing myself correctly.1- AFAIK, the second dev didn't insulted anybody, he just backed up the first one. If "they themselves" were to be blamed, he shouldn't have been fired.2- AFAIK, the first one has a long story of aggressive, confrontational and disrespectful opinions. If it was her the one that make Anet fire her, they would have fired her way sooner. Not the day before but WAAAAAAAAAY sooner. Months before. Maybe they wouldn't have hired her in the first place.3- I'm NOT defending the devs. I'm stating my opinion that Anet wouldn't have fired them, despite whatever behavior they were showing somewhere, If there weren't a virtual mob with twitter torches and reddit pitchforks claiming it.4- In the end, I'm just saying that, IMHO, forcing decisions through crowd pressure is wrong. Decisions must be deliberate, calm and unquestionably substantiated.5- I know it seems a logical reaction to do something fast when people screams angry at your door. But now there are TWO mobs sharpening their keyboards...

[Dengar.1785]

@Ardid.7203 said:

@Ardid.7203 said:

@Dengar.1785 said:

@Ardid.7203 said:Lets just celebrate another triumph of the mob mentality. At this point we could even make a drinking game of it...It clear nobody listened to Ventari in this.

Why do people keep blaming mob mentality for an employee’s own failures? The mob didn’t make Anet fire them, they themselves did.

If that were true, they wouldn't have fired the second dev. And they would have fired her way sooner, not now. Anet acted because the mob, nothing else.

It seems I'm not expressing myself correctly.1- AFAIK, the second dev didn't insulted anybody, he just backed up the first one. If "they themselves" were to be blamed, he shouldn't have been fired.2- AFAIK, the first one has a long story of aggressive, confrontational and disrespectful opinions. If it was her the one that make Anet fire her, they would have fired her way sooner. Not the day before but WAAAAAAAAAY sooner. Months before. Maybe they wouldn't have hired her in the first place.3- I'm NOT defending the devs. I'm stating my opinion that Anet wouldn't have fired them, despite whatever behavior they were showing somewhere, If there weren't a virtual mob with twitter torches and reddit pitchforks claiming it.4- In the end, I'm just saying that, IMHO, forcing decisions through crowd pressure is wrong. Decisions must be deliberate, calm and unquestionably substantiated.5- I know it seems a logical reaction to do something fast when people screams angry at your door. But now there are TWO mobs sharpening their keyboards...

To the first one, he called people mansplainers. The second one, she never publicly abused customers before, and most certainly no partnered content creators.

[maddoctor.2738]

@Ardid.7203 said:4- In the end, I'm just saying that, IMHO, forcing decisions through crowd pressure is wrong. Decisions must be deliberate, calm and unquestionably substantiated.

Like the mount license for example?

[Jake Orion.2049]

@"Ardid.7203" said:1- AFAIK, the second dev didn't insulted anybody, he just backed up the first one. If "they themselves" were to be blamed, he shouldn't have been fired.

This one puzzles me. Why was Peter Fries fired? Unfortunately those Tweets have been deleted, but my understanding thus far was he only came to her defense, but was respectful in the manner he did so.

3- I'm NOT defending the devs. I'm stating my opinion that Anet wouldn't have fired them, despite whatever behavior they were showing somewhere, If there weren't a virtual mob with twitter torches and reddit pitchforks claiming it.

Today, when you work for a company (especially one that involves customer service), you must be extremely careful on how you word your texts on social networks. Even though she posted under her personal twitter feed, she still represents the company she works for by proxy.

Is it right and fair? Absolutely not. But we do not live in a world that adheres to fairness.

4- In the end, I'm just saying that, IMHO, forcing decisions through crowd pressure is wrong. Decisions must be deliberate, calm and unquestionably substantiated.

Unfortunately, when it can affect your bottom line (income), some decisions must be made and swiftly. Unverified, but I've heard there was talk of a boycott at one point. I do not know the financial assets Anet has, but if there was even a remote possibility for this that lead them to make this decision when they did, it could be an indication they could not afford to chance it.