I guess I'm hanging up my daggers now...

[Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497]

At least they fixed one of the major complaints about Deadeye, which was the kneeling. And daggers getting back the damage bonus that makes dent on the auto nerfs.

But the nerfs are just taking away more of theifs identity to the point of irrelevance. Without much in the way of compensation, or opening up options for the thief to counteract those nerfs. Or toning down the others so this can actually compete in all game modes.

I think I'm gonna retire my thief after five ( or six... however old gw2 is) years and just make a damn mesmer.

[Sir Vincent III.1286]

Both changes to Backstab and Dagger Training are buffs. Exposed Weakness has a potential of going over the original 10% damage boost.

I'm not sure what you're complaining about. The nerfs are negligible.

[Lahmia.2193]

I'll be happy to take that +5% dagger damage buff off your hands, onto my necro.edit: Oh and I didn't notice you got the +2% damage per condition trait. Something I've been begging anet to give back to necro, after they took it away when the specialization update happened.

[Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497]

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:Both changes to Backstab and Dagger Training are buffs. Exposed Weakness has a potential of going over the original 10% damage boost.

I'm not sure what you're complaining about. The nerfs are negligible.

I'm just genuinely tired of reading the patch notes for Thief to see some of the things that can actually let you do more than +1ing or going far getting cut back.

I'm happy they cut back the backstab cool down. I'm happy they finally made that needed adjustment to Deadyes kneel and free action to make it snappier. But it's just every time you get your spirits up, you see something that pushes you further into being subpar at PvP. Or not much more being done to make you desirable in PvE content outside of a static.

It just doesn't feel good when you play a class in PvP that you never play, and it takes less effort to get more done than your main.

[Sir Vincent III.1286]

@Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:Both changes to Backstab and Dagger Training are buffs. Exposed Weakness has a potential of going over the original 10% damage boost.

I'm not sure what you're complaining about. The nerfs are negligible.

I'm just genuinely tired of reading the patch notes for Thief to see some of the things that can actually let you do more than +1ing or going far getting cut back.

You still have not posted what exactly it is that you're upset about. When I look at the patch note, I always start with the Mesmer since they are the one that I hate the most. Thus seeing all the nerfs they got is a buff to my Thief. ;)

[Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497]

It's more than just this patch note. It's basically all the past ones on top of this. Along with how long it took for usability changes to finally hit Deadeye, and some revision on an unnessary nerf to sneak attacks. But there's still a great big cornucopia of issues in core thief that thief players complained about, but never got fixed or a response from a Dev to give their thoughts on the matter. And I really just don't care to argue about this.

I don't know. Most likely I'll suck it up and just have another bad taste permanently in my mouth like a Dipper's hairy tongue.

[Sir Vincent III.1286]

To be fair, it is inconceivable to predict every single outcome when balancing the professions, thus they retweak after collecting enough data from the previous balance. Unlike the dreadful December 10, 2013 patch, they're doing good in their recent tweaks.

[Tinnel.4369]

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:To be fair, it is inconceivable to predict every single outcome when balancing the professions, thus they retweak after collecting enough data from the previous balance. Unlike the dreadful December 10, 2013 patch, they're doing good in their recent tweaks.

Yes! Live beta model for the win!

[DeceiverX.8361]

I find it hilarious they suggest a 5% increase on DT will compensate for EW. Because Mug definitely isn't one of the single most significant reasons people even take DA...This patch butchered DA and most builds except SA DE. More logical to just take Daredevil at this point with the GM trait left empty.

D/D power thief has never been made more useless in the PvP formats. It has absolutely zero synergy with DE, way less than D/P does in DE or DrD, and lost all its synergy with DA. And it was already a garbage-tier kit.

This patch across all the professions was hilariously ignorant.

[Sir Vincent III.1286]

@Tinnel.4369 said:

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:To be fair, it is inconceivable to predict every single outcome when balancing the professions, thus they retweak after collecting enough data from the previous balance. Unlike the dreadful December 10, 2013 patch, they're doing good in their recent tweaks.

Yes! Live beta model for the win!

You have not played MMOs, have you?

[Tinnel.4369]

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:

@Tinnel.4369 said:

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:To be fair, it is inconceivable to predict every single outcome when balancing the professions, thus they retweak after collecting enough data from the previous balance. Unlike the dreadful December 10, 2013 patch, they're doing good in their recent tweaks.

Yes! Live beta model for the win!

You have not played MMOs, have you?

20 years worth! Most run PTRs, betas, thorough testing, don't balance mid competitive seasons. OR, have the ability to hotfix in a snap when needed. If you've played here long enough you'll see the difference.

[NICENIKESHOE.7128]

I'll just leave this here

Quite honestly though with 38k from that rotation...I felt bad for ele now.

[Scud.5067]

@NICENIKESHOE.7128 said:I'll just leave this hereQuite honestly though with 38k from that rotation...I felt bad for ele now.

Coming in here, with testing and feedback - spoiling the pity party!

Fer shame! :)

I will say one thing - that rotation is liable to induce comas. =)

[Sir Vincent III.1286]

@Tinnel.4369 said:

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:

@Tinnel.4369 said:

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:To be fair, it is inconceivable to predict every single outcome when balancing the professions, thus they retweak after collecting enough data from the previous balance. Unlike the dreadful December 10, 2013 patch, they're doing good in their recent tweaks.

Yes! Live beta model for the win!

You have not played MMOs, have you?

20 years worth! Most run PTRs, betas, thorough testing, don't balance mid competitive seasons. OR, have the ability to hotfix in a snap when needed. If you've played here long enough you'll see the difference.

My point is. MMO is beta.

[Volrath.1473]

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:

@Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:Both changes to Backstab and Dagger Training are buffs. Exposed Weakness has a potential of going over the original 10% damage boost.

I'm not sure what you're complaining about. The nerfs are negligible.

I'm just genuinely tired of reading the patch notes for Thief to see some of the things that can actually let you do more than +1ing or going far getting cut back.

You still have not posted what exactly it is that you're upset about. When I look at the patch note, I always start with the Mesmer since they are the one that I hate the most. Thus seeing all the nerfs they got is a buff to my Thief. ;)

You are like the football fan that hates so much a team they seing this team lose makes them happier then their own team wining...

Anyway even if they nerfed the mesmer to a vegetable, Thief still has no place in the game. There's literally nothing you can do that another class can't do better, with less effort and more forgiving.

[Safandula.8723]

@Volrath.1473 said:

Anyway even if they nerfed the mesmer to a vegetable, Thief still has no place in the game. There's literally nothing you can do that another class can't do better, with less effort and more forgiving.

So plz tell me which class can 1 shot warrior from 51% hp to 0 ? I feel like all people winning about thief is so weak, just dunno how to play it. No saying im a master of thief, but i mainly play it, and I see the potential of it. U can 1v1 all the classes, if u know how to counter them. I agree thief could be a little stronger, but come on guys, stop crying, other classes also get nerfs.

[MindWipe.3028]

kneel is useless now tho. the reason kneel was good before was bc of death's judgment but now that is a sneak attack. tbh it shows how hopelessly lost anet is that after two "buffs" to deadeye it is worse then it has ever been.

[Scud.5067]

@"MindWipe.3028" said:kneel is useless now tho. the reason kneel was good before was bc of death's judgment but now that is a sneak attack. tbh it shows how hopelessly lost anet is that after two "buffs" to deadeye it is worse then it has ever been.

Kneel, again with regards to pvp (all) has an opportunity cost. If , while en route to your target, you can leverage a vantage point, its worth it for the 3RB/root/range boost - and with Silent Scope, the guaranteed (depending on gear/spec, natch) crit thanks to the +20% crit chance boost.

Heck, with a good enough vantage point you can camp it for a few shots. Might as well.

So aye, situational - not essential, but if you can get it in there, it provides.

[Safandula.8723]

@"MindWipe.3028" said:kneel is useless now tho. the reason kneel was good before was bc of death's judgment but now that is a sneak attack. tbh it shows how hopelessly lost anet is that after two "buffs" to deadeye it is worse then it has ever been.

projectile block wall on 4, perma immobilize on 2, high dps on 3. not sure if any of those is useless...

[babazhook.6805]

@DeceiverX.8361 said:I find it hilarious they suggest a 5% increase on DT will compensate for EW. Because Mug definitely isn't one of the single most significant reasons people even take DA...This patch butchered DA and most builds except SA DE. More logical to just take Daredevil at this point with the GM trait left empty.

D/D power thief has never been made more useless in the PvP formats. It has absolutely zero synergy with DE, way less than D/P does in DE or DrD, and lost all its synergy with DA. And it was already a garbage-tier kit.

This patch across all the professions was hilariously ignorant.

Have not tested fully but outside SA DE of builds I use and have tried.

P/d Condition (DE) is a boost. (Both My SA and Non SA Versions)s/p power (DE) is a boost. (non SA)

I have not looked into the other changes yet but they were not that extensive. There were 7 skills that recived nerfs that were not related to the DE spec. The impact of this depends on how extensive nerfs were to other vlasses in relative terms. As far as d/d power and DA line go the EW nerf likely works out to about 4 percent less damage which hardly a gutting . I do not see how just adding more damage is more synergy. Potent Poison and Swindlers changes are likely the two biggest nerfs and do not impact d/d power.

[babazhook.6805]

@Safandula.8723 said:

@"MindWipe.3028" said:kneel is useless now tho. the reason kneel was good before was bc of death's judgment but now that is a sneak attack. tbh it shows how hopelessly lost anet is that after two "buffs" to deadeye it is worse then it has ever been.

projectile block wall on 4, perma immobilize on 2, high dps on 3. not sure if any of those is useless...

Played with Number 4 . MUCH smoother and usable on Rifle. Very nice for fighting LB rangers. It would be nice if there a NUMBER 1 kneel but as far as I am concerned Kneel skills are fine.

[Sir Vincent III.1286]

@Volrath.1473 said:

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:

@Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:Both changes to Backstab and Dagger Training are buffs. Exposed Weakness has a potential of going over the original 10% damage boost.

I'm not sure what you're complaining about. The nerfs are negligible.

I'm just genuinely tired of reading the patch notes for Thief to see some of the things that can actually let you do more than +1ing or going far getting cut back.

You still have not posted what exactly it is that you're upset about. When I look at the patch note, I always start with the Mesmer since they are the one that I hate the most. Thus seeing all the nerfs they got is a buff to my Thief. ;)

You are like the football fan that hates so much a team they seing this team lose makes them happier then their own team wining...

Anyway even if they nerfed the mesmer to a vegetable, Thief still has no place in the game. There's literally nothing you can do that another class can't do better, with less effort and more forgiving.

Sometimes, the only way for your team to progress is to have the other team lose.

[Xtinct.7031]

@babazhook.6805 said:

@DeceiverX.8361 said:I find it hilarious they suggest a 5% increase on DT will compensate for EW. Because Mug definitely isn't one of the single most significant reasons people even take DA...This patch butchered DA and most builds except SA DE. More logical to just take Daredevil at this point with the GM trait left empty.

D/D power thief has never been made more useless in the PvP formats. It has absolutely zero synergy with DE, way less than D/P does in DE or DrD, and lost all its synergy with DA. And it was already a garbage-tier kit.

This patch across all the professions was hilariously ignorant.

Have not tested fully but outside SA DE of builds I use and have tried.

P/d Condition (DE) is a boost. (Both My SA and Non SA Versions)

Delusional comment about P/D condition, or any condition build for that matter. What planet are u on?

[babazhook.6805]

@Xtinct.7031 said:

@babazhook.6805 said:

@DeceiverX.8361 said:I find it hilarious they suggest a 5% increase on DT will compensate for EW. Because Mug definitely isn't one of the single most significant reasons people even take DA...This patch butchered DA and most builds except SA DE. More logical to just take Daredevil at this point with the GM trait left empty.

D/D power thief has never been made more useless in the PvP formats. It has absolutely zero synergy with DE, way less than D/P does in DE or DrD, and lost all its synergy with DA. And it was already a garbage-tier kit.

This patch across all the professions was hilariously ignorant.

Have not tested fully but outside SA DE of builds I use and have tried.

P/d Condition (DE) is a boost. (Both My SA and Non SA Versions)

Delusional comment about P/D condition, or any condition build for that matter. What planet are u on?

You obviously do not have a clue as to what makes the build tick. It was NOT Potent Poison which was the only thing that saw a hit. Added stealths for more Sneak attacks used in conjunction with the Payback trait which can significantly lower Cooldowns on all utilities , more then makes up for the 13 percent loss of durations and potentcy on Potent poison.

Added to that the build , it is generally better at generating malice then previously which garners more torment stacks via the Malicious attack. Cleansing potential of conditions went up from where it was prior due to higher stealth access and better cooldown on utiltities.

If a person desired, just as example , it not that hard to drop SMELD as a stealth and use the stolen skills instead while slotting in Thieves Guild for a venom share. In Wvw I was popping out those three Thieves less then 60 seconds after they used prior. I was getting venoms off cooldown 17 seconds after last use without trainting leeching. Subbing in Improv for Potent Poison doubles up your stolen item use if you wish to go that route while remaining in Potent is not going to see a heck of a big hit to damage out via the poison.

[Asahi.1487]

Hmm anet buffed my build yay! D/D 1 shotting commanders all day. Thanks