So many balance patches, but HAMMER remains as a cosmetic item

[infrequentia.3465]

@Pirindolo.9427 said:

@otto.5684 said:Speaking purely from PvE, hammer is only viable for reverant, and only in ow. you can use it on warrior, gurdian and engi, but why punish yourself that bad

☹️

.

PvP, it is okaish for gurdian, good for rev in wvw and a maybe on scrapper.

Overall, it is a terrible weapon with limited use ability.

Exactly my point. You can use it if you like it, for fun, for cosmetic reasons,... but never for dps, which is far beyond so many other weapon choices

hammer isn't a dps weapon. neither is mace and focus,

except on a rev there mace and hammer are dps.not every weapon needs to be equal in dpshammer is 1 of the few weapons that are in a good spot for a while now

@Pirindolo.9427 said:Can you use Hammer in a fractal/dungeon/open PVE? yesBut, in doing so, you will have less dps, less CC and less everything compared to the majority of the other weapons you can use.

hammer offers 1 of the most cc compared to dps weps ( great sword or the 1h handers)

[Pirindolo.9427]

@infrequentia.3465 said:

@Pirindolo.9427 said:

@otto.5684 said:Speaking purely from PvE, hammer is only viable for reverant, and only in ow. you can use it on warrior, gurdian and engi, but why punish yourself that bad

☹️

.

PvP, it is okaish for gurdian, good for rev in wvw and a maybe on scrapper.

Overall, it is a terrible weapon with limited use ability.

Exactly my point. You can use it if you like it, for fun, for cosmetic reasons,... but never for dps, which is far beyond so many other weapon choices

hammer isn't a dps weapon. neither is mace and focus,

except on a rev there mace and hammer are dps.not every weapon needs to be equal in dpshammer is 1 of the few weapons that are in a good spot for a while now

@Pirindolo.9427 said:Can you use Hammer in a fractal/dungeon/open PVE? yesBut, in doing so, you will have less dps, less CC and less everything compared to the majority of the other weapons you can use.

hammer offers 1 of the most cc compared to dps weps ( great sword or the 1h handers)

You maybe should check discretize or snow crows builds/guides and look for CC options for each class. Then tell me how many hammer abilities you find among all the classes. Whatever a hammer can do, there are better options for every class and, in most casses, hammer is a very bad option. I like hammers, I would like to be able to use one as a competitive choice compared to the other weapons.

[Airdive.2613]

@Pirindolo.9427 said:

@infrequentia.3465 said:

@Pirindolo.9427 said:

@otto.5684 said:Speaking purely from PvE, hammer is only viable for reverant, and only in ow. you can use it on warrior, gurdian and engi, but why punish yourself that bad

☹️

.

PvP, it is okaish for gurdian, good for rev in wvw and a maybe on scrapper.

Overall, it is a terrible weapon with limited use ability.

Exactly my point. You can use it if you like it, for fun, for cosmetic reasons,... but never for dps, which is far beyond so many other weapon choices

hammer isn't a dps weapon. neither is mace and focus,

except on a rev there mace and hammer are dps.not every weapon needs to be equal in dpshammer is 1 of the few weapons that are in a good spot for a while now

@Pirindolo.9427 said:Can you use Hammer in a fractal/dungeon/open PVE? yesBut, in doing so, you will have less dps, less CC and less everything compared to the majority of the other weapons you can use.

hammer offers 1 of the most cc compared to dps weps ( great sword or the 1h handers)

You maybe should check discretize or snow crows builds/guides and look for CC options for each class. Then tell me how many hammer abilities you find among all the classes. Whatever a hammer can do, there are better options for every class and, in most casses, hammer is a very bad option. I like hammers, I would like to be able to use one as a competitive choice compared to the other weapons.

Without checking the website:warrior's hammer offers, among 6 skills, 3 hard control, 1 soft control and 1 weakness (also works on break bars);guardian's hammer offers 1 area immobilize, 1 hard control skill, and 1 huge ring ward (that needs to be utilized well), while also providing utility via symbols and self-combo area condition cleanse;scrapper's hammer offers 1 area control skill which leaves the field for 1 self-comboing triple-daze, while also providing self-defence (evade, block, reflect).

[Pirindolo.9427]

@Airdive.2613 said:

@Pirindolo.9427 said:

@infrequentia.3465 said:

@Pirindolo.9427 said:

@otto.5684 said:Speaking purely from PvE, hammer is only viable for reverant, and only in ow. you can use it on warrior, gurdian and engi, but why punish yourself that bad

☹️

.

PvP, it is okaish for gurdian, good for rev in wvw and a maybe on scrapper.

Overall, it is a terrible weapon with limited use ability.

Exactly my point. You can use it if you like it, for fun, for cosmetic reasons,... but never for dps, which is far beyond so many other weapon choices

hammer isn't a dps weapon. neither is mace and focus,

except on a rev there mace and hammer are dps.not every weapon needs to be equal in dpshammer is 1 of the few weapons that are in a good spot for a while now

@Pirindolo.9427 said:Can you use Hammer in a fractal/dungeon/open PVE? yesBut, in doing so, you will have less dps, less CC and less everything compared to the majority of the other weapons you can use.

hammer offers 1 of the most cc compared to dps weps ( great sword or the 1h handers)

You maybe should check discretize or snow crows builds/guides and look for CC options for each class. Then tell me how many hammer abilities you find among all the classes. Whatever a hammer can do, there are better options for every class and, in most casses, hammer is a very bad option. I like hammers, I would like to be able to use one as a competitive choice compared to the other weapons.

Without checking the website:warrior's hammer offers, among 6 skills, 3 hard control, 1 soft control and 1 weakness (also works on break bars);guardian's hammer offers 1 area immobilize, 1 hard control skill, and 1 huge ring ward (that needs to be utilized well), while also providing utility via symbols and self-combo area condition cleanse;scrapper's hammer offers 1 area control skill which leaves the field for 1 self-comboing triple-daze, while also providing self-defence (evade, block, reflect).

Ok, now go to check that the warriors have a way better choice for CC: double mace. Even taking hammer as pure CC only and no dps at all, it's even worse than double mace.

[Airdive.2613]

@Pirindolo.9427 said:

@Airdive.2613 said:

@Pirindolo.9427 said:

@infrequentia.3465 said:

@Pirindolo.9427 said:

@otto.5684 said:Speaking purely from PvE, hammer is only viable for reverant, and only in ow. you can use it on warrior, gurdian and engi, but why punish yourself that bad

☹️

.

PvP, it is okaish for gurdian, good for rev in wvw and a maybe on scrapper.

Overall, it is a terrible weapon with limited use ability.

Exactly my point. You can use it if you like it, for fun, for cosmetic reasons,... but never for dps, which is far beyond so many other weapon choices

hammer isn't a dps weapon. neither is mace and focus,

except on a rev there mace and hammer are dps.not every weapon needs to be equal in dpshammer is 1 of the few weapons that are in a good spot for a while now

@Pirindolo.9427 said:Can you use Hammer in a fractal/dungeon/open PVE? yesBut, in doing so, you will have less dps, less CC and less everything compared to the majority of the other weapons you can use.

hammer offers 1 of the most cc compared to dps weps ( great sword or the 1h handers)

You maybe should check discretize or snow crows builds/guides and look for CC options for each class. Then tell me how many hammer abilities you find among all the classes. Whatever a hammer can do, there are better options for every class and, in most casses, hammer is a very bad option. I like hammers, I would like to be able to use one as a competitive choice compared to the other weapons.

Without checking the website:warrior's hammer offers, among 6 skills, 3 hard control, 1 soft control and 1 weakness (also works on break bars);guardian's hammer offers 1 area immobilize, 1 hard control skill, and 1 huge ring ward (that needs to be utilized well), while also providing utility via symbols and self-combo area condition cleanse;scrapper's hammer offers 1 area control skill which leaves the field for 1 self-comboing triple-daze, while also providing self-defence (evade, block, reflect).

Ok, now go to check that the warriors have a way better choice for CC: double mace. Even taking hammer as pure CC only and no dps at all, it's even worse than double mace.

Well, I would choose dual maces when I want to stun a single target and hammer when I want more area control. Looks simple enough.

[Edgy McEdgelord.4790]

@GDchiaScrub.3241 said:Or y'know. They could stop designing damage sponge enemies so DPS isn't the only desirable thing. Maybe make an encounter that isn't scripted, but with more reactive ai?

Oh you stop dreaming, thats unrealistic

[GDchiaScrub.3241]

@Edgy McEdgelord.4790 said:

@GDchiaScrub.3241 said:Or y'know. They could stop designing damage sponge enemies so DPS isn't the only desirable thing. Maybe make an encounter that isn't scripted, but with more reactive ai?

Oh you stop dreaming, thats unrealistic

I member when AI interrupted my precious rotations in GW1 though! Cry of Frustration @%$#!

D:

[Obtena.7952]

@Pirindolo.9427 said:Can you use Hammer in a fractal/dungeon/open PVE? yesBut, in doing so, you will have less dps, less CC and less everything compared to the majority of the other weapons you can use.

That's not a logical reason to improve anything. If you haven't noticed, there is a wide range of performance across ... everything. If you want to use a hammer, the only thing that stops you is your own perception of how to play and who you decide to play with. Clearly, what you are saying here is personal opinion; others have expressed different ideas about how to use an hammer and why. You just need to acknowledge hammer has other uses.

[Yamazuki.6073]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Pirindolo.9427 said:Can you use Hammer in a fractal/dungeon/open PVE? yesBut, in doing so, you will have less dps, less CC and less everything compared to the majority of the other weapons you can use.

That's not a logical reason to improve anything. If you haven't noticed, there is a wide range of performance across ... everything. If you want to use a hammer, the only thing that stops you is your own perception of how to play and who you decide to play with. Clearly, what you are saying here is personal opinion; others have expressed different ideas about how to use an hammer and why. You just need to acknowledge hammer has other uses.

It is a logical reason, because the op is talking about pve. The other uses are for pvp/wvw, which they are not asking for pvp/wvw balance changes in regards to hammers.

If a weapon provides less than other weapons, then it is very logical to buff the weapon to be as close to the other options as possible. What is not logical is intentionally keeping a weapon weak just because you're allowed to use it. The op did not say no one could use hammers, they did not say it's unusable, or that it does nothing at all, they said the hammers are inferior to the other available options and are generally unused when playing efficiently; these are facts, not opinions.

[sephiroth.4217]

I use hammers in PvP and WvW.

Different weapons excel at different things I suppose.

[Obtena.7952]

@Yamazuki.6073 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Pirindolo.9427 said:Can you use Hammer in a fractal/dungeon/open PVE? yesBut, in doing so, you will have less dps, less CC and less everything compared to the majority of the other weapons you can use.

That's not a logical reason to improve anything. If you haven't noticed, there is a wide range of performance across ... everything. If you want to use a hammer, the only thing that stops you is your own perception of how to play and who you decide to play with. Clearly, what you are saying here is personal opinion; others have expressed different ideas about how to use an hammer and why. You just need to acknowledge hammer has other uses.

It is a logical reason, because the op is talking about

pve

. The other uses are for pvp/wvw, which they are not asking for pvp/wvw balance changes in regards to hammers.

If a weapon provides less than other weapons, then it is very logical to buff the weapon to be as close to the other options as possible.

Really? Because I have played this game for 6 years ... and that's not how it's ever worked. Maybe you have taken that 'logical' approach from some other MMO, but in GW2, I don't see the relevance or logical of it at all. You know about meta right? You are aware of how this game rewards optimal choice yes? yet somehow you conclude it's logical for Anet to achieve 'closeness' over all weapons and other choices? Seems to me you are ignoring how this game works to get what you desire.

What is really happening here is that the OP doesn't like how his hammer performs, so he's sensationalizing how crap it is to try to influence a change. The problem is that it doesn't make much sense to appeal to performance to balance a choice when choices aren't balanced by performance in the first place. I have some very serious doubts that sensational sell is going to result in meaningful discussion here.

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

Hammer definitely has a place in the PVE meta. It is the best weapon possible on Warriors and Guardians during Serpent's Ire phase 2. Not anywhere else, but there is where hammer shines.

Seriously though, the issue of meta can be a bit weird to consider. You have best in game, best in class, or best in niche. Take guardian, for example. The mace is terrible DPS and not on any meta builds, but if you're running a healer for reasons it is a near staple of the build. I like to go hammer guard on days here I am really sick, and don't want to bother maxing deeps for randos on the interwebz. It is hard to find a lower maintenance playstyle that contributes as much as hammer guard does.

A weapon is only truly useless if it doesn't hit any niches, or if it is so inept in one category that it counterbalances any benefits it might bring.

[Pirindolo.9427]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Pirindolo.9427 said:Can you use Hammer in a fractal/dungeon/open PVE? yesBut, in doing so, you will have less dps, less CC and less everything compared to the majority of the other weapons you can use.

That's not a logical reason to improve anything. If you haven't noticed, there is a wide range of performance across ... everything. If you want to use a hammer, the only thing that stops you is your own perception of how to play and who you decide to play with. Clearly, what you are saying here is personal opinion; others have expressed different ideas about how to use an hammer and why. You just need to acknowledge hammer has other uses.

True, but my point is not that. What I say is that hammer is, by far, the least used PVE weapon, because it's the worst option in general, with very rare and niche exceptions, and only a so-so, specific-use option for 1 or 2 classes. I want hammer, I like it, but if I use it, the trade off is too expensive right now.

[Obtena.7952]

That point doesn't make sense. Being the least used isn't a reason to buff it. It's OK that's it's a niche weapon for specific purpose. What you say generally is not true specifically. If you had been more specific to what class you wanted hammer buffed for, you might have had a better idea.

[infrequentia.3465]

@Pirindolo.9427 said:

@Airdive.2613 said:

@Pirindolo.9427 said:

@infrequentia.3465 said:

@Pirindolo.9427 said:

@otto.5684 said:Speaking purely from PvE, hammer is only viable for reverant, and only in ow. you can use it on warrior, gurdian and engi, but why punish yourself that bad

☹️

.

PvP, it is okaish for gurdian, good for rev in wvw and a maybe on scrapper.

Overall, it is a terrible weapon with limited use ability.

Exactly my point. You can use it if you like it, for fun, for cosmetic reasons,... but never for dps, which is far beyond so many other weapon choices

hammer isn't a dps weapon. neither is mace and focus,

except on a rev there mace and hammer are dps.not every weapon needs to be equal in dpshammer is 1 of the few weapons that are in a good spot for a while now

@Pirindolo.9427 said:Can you use Hammer in a fractal/dungeon/open PVE? yesBut, in doing so, you will have less dps, less CC and less everything compared to the majority of the other weapons you can use.

hammer offers 1 of the most cc compared to dps weps ( great sword or the 1h handers)

You maybe should check discretize or snow crows builds/guides and look for CC options for each class. Then tell me how many hammer abilities you find among all the classes. Whatever a hammer can do, there are better options for every class and, in most casses, hammer is a very bad option. I like hammers, I would like to be able to use one as a competitive choice compared to the other weapons.

Without checking the website:warrior's hammer offers, among 6 skills, 3 hard control, 1 soft control and 1 weakness (also works on break bars);guardian's hammer offers 1 area immobilize, 1 hard control skill, and 1 huge ring ward (that needs to be utilized well), while also providing utility via symbols and self-combo area condition cleanse;scrapper's hammer offers 1 area control skill which leaves the field for 1 self-comboing triple-daze, while also providing self-defence (evade, block, reflect).

Ok, now go to check that the warriors have a way better choice for CC: double mace. Even taking hammer as pure CC only and no dps at all, it's even worse than double mace.

those aren't dps weapons either. they are in the same category as hammers , control

[GDchiaScrub.3241]

@Obtena.7952 said:That point doesn't make sense. Being the least used isn't a reason to buff it. It's OK that's it's a niche weapon for specific purpose. What you say generally is not true specifically. If you had been more specific to what class you wanted hammer buffed for, you might have had a better idea.

I can say the hammer trait for guardian is uhh...not really optimal in most settings.

D:

[Obtena.7952]

@GDchiaScrub.3241 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:That point doesn't make sense. Being the least used isn't a reason to buff it. It's OK that's it's a niche weapon for specific purpose. What you say generally is not true specifically. If you had been more specific to what class you wanted hammer buffed for, you might have had a better idea.

I can say the hammer trait for guardian is uhh...not really optimal in most settings.

D:

Sure, and that's my point. Hammer trait for Guardian is used heavily in PVP. Does that trait need a buff because it has a specific purpose or excels in one game mode?

The same goes with hammer itself. I think the OP is going a little far with his claims that Hammer on ALL classes is just window dressing. Clearly, that's just being sensational and not recognizing the value hammer has in specific situations. In fact, it's rather silly to generalize any specific weapon in that way and claim it needs buffs overall. It's HIGHLY dependent on the class.

[Airdive.2613]

@GDchiaScrub.3241 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:That point doesn't make sense. Being the least used isn't a reason to buff it. It's OK that's it's a niche weapon for specific purpose. What you say generally is not true specifically. If you had been more specific to what class you wanted hammer buffed for, you might have had a better idea.

I can say the hammer trait for guardian is uhh...not really optimal in most settings.

D:

Then it's a good thing you can use the hammer and also benefit from one of two other great traits. Being forced into one specific trait would be boring.

[Pirindolo.9427]

If we coul know the number of ppl using each weapon in PVE, we would see that hammer is by far the least used one.

[Airdive.2613]

@Pirindolo.9427 said:If we coul know the number of ppl using each weapon in PVE, we would see that hammer is by far the least used one.

Now this is blatant speculation. You have literally no way of knowing that before you know the numbers.

[Obtena.7952]

@Pirindolo.9427 said:If we coul know the number of ppl using each weapon in PVE, we would see that hammer is by far the least used one.

... IF and then only MAYBE you might be right.

And even IF that's true ... it would be irrelevant.

[Raine.1394]

Agree with most of the comments and with the point of the OP. I really enjoy using a hammer on occasion on my guardian and warrior. But, it's not because of its effectiveness, it's simply for its great animations. It feels really powerful, but it's not. I think that's why it's being referred to as cosmetic. There is no reason that hammer shouldn't take its place as a truly useful weapon.

[Klowdy.3126]

@Pirindolo.9427 said:If we coul know the number of ppl using each weapon in PVE, we would see that hammer is by far the least used one.

Those numbers wouldn't mean anything, because all single player content funnels you into using a 90-100% DPS build, which is not what hammer was meant to be. Have you ever tried clearing solo content with a full blown healer/support build? Does that mean ranger staff is in need of change? Weapons have different uses, and it's not all about DPS, even if lazy design since the introduction of raids persists in every aspect of PvE now.

[Pirindolo.9427]

@Airdive.2613 said:

@Pirindolo.9427 said:If we coul know the number of ppl using each weapon in PVE, we would see that hammer is by far the least used one.

Now this is blatant speculation. You have literally no way of knowing that before you know the numbers.

True, but I don't need it. I have eyes.

[Pirindolo.9427]

@Klowdy.3126 said:

@"Pirindolo.9427" said:If we coul know the number of ppl using each weapon in PVE, we would see that hammer is by far the least used one.

Those numbers wouldn't mean anything, because all single player content funnels you into using a 90-100% DPS build, which is not what hammer was meant to be. Have you ever tried clearing solo content with a full blown healer/support build? Does that mean ranger staff is in need of change? Weapons have different uses, and it's not all about DPS, even if lazy design since the introduction of raids persists in every aspect of PvE now.

Talking about PVE, more specifically fractals, dungeons and open PVE, as stated in the OP, every weapon in game is a "best choice" overall for at least one class. In some cases they are the best choice for a few classes. But hammer is not the best choice for any class or use. In fact hammer is a very bad choice for most of them.