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Can a dev explain us what elementalist supposed to be?


Arheundel.6451
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-You don't want it to heal...you nerfed tempest heal/sustain

-You don't want it to duel..you nerfed all duel specs, yesterday you nerfed sustain on weaver(stealth nerf on elemental attunement) and add dmg to skill with 130 range, you obliterated d/d set, nerfed its burst, nerfed mobility., nerfed fire trait line, removed might from cantrip trait

-You don't want it to burst ....you nerfed fresh air, you nerfed air minor burst, you nerfed scepter burst

-You don't want it to nuke burst..you nerf staff at every turn even in pvp where nobody used staff seriously since launch

Why a sane person would use an ele?-side noder?....with spellbreaker/holosmith/condi mirage even a druid if played well-team fight?...with what and in replacement of who?-burst?..............naaaa

I am lost, you keep nerfing this profession but offer no insight, no communication, no share of a vision....these look nerfs out of spite which don't make any sense to start with, this profession now excel at nothing and it's mediocre at everything when you put loads of effort into it at which point I can't help but ask myself : "where are the benefits in playing this profession?"

Just a single line of comment would be enough and it's not like I am demanding explanations or to be made part of the balance process, I genuinely don't know what to do with this class and I have been using it for well over 8k hrs and that's only reason I am coming back to it, all the time and money investment..it hurts to see it being pointless

Anything at this point would be better than complete silence

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Welcome to the necro's world. We are told we get a power house just to be a condi spammy mess. We are told were getting a "support" spec but that means sooooooooo many conditions it makes anyone run and not actually a support spec. Then the random nerfs to like a blood suck trait to gain heal just to make it worse. Or instead of fixing the over the board conditions to make scourge a support spec. They ruin any chance of a support spec.

I really feel that there is no one working on pvp and it's a chained up monkey working part time at a computer.

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@"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" " said:We feel that while the current state of sword weaver and tempest might be under performing a bit, they aren't too far from viability. Considering the changes we're planning for other classes, we feel that they may be in a pretty good spot after the release. We didn't want to buff them with this release just to have to nerf them later. We may be wrong, so we'll be keeping an eye on them after the release to see how they fared.

This is what he said in february. Maybe we could get some hints or some explanations, indeed. There were like... how many eles in top100? How many in tournaments? Especially how many in any winning AT team? Some statistics that could explain the current nerf (DPS-wise, PvE, WvW) or the disregard in PVP (S/D, FA, Tempest)?

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I don't think anyone can explain it. The unwarranted lava font nerfs... I mean, just... just why?? It's almost as if a dev put on a blindfold and pointed their finger at a random skill and went "yes, let's nerf this because why not!". This balance patch is the biggest 'wtf do u even know this game' patch I've ever seen.

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@"Ziggityzog.7389" said:Welcome to the necro's world. We are told we get a power house just to be a condi spammy mess. We are told were getting a "support" spec but that means sooooooooo many conditions it makes anyone run and not actually a support spec. Then the random nerfs to like a blood suck trait to gain heal just to make it worse. Or instead of fixing the over the board conditions to make scourge a support spec. They ruin any chance of a support spec.

I really feel that there is no one working on pvp and it's a chained up monkey working part time at a computer.

Thats the first time i fully agree with you. Something is strange today...

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I second this post with all of my.... elements.

I haven't picked up my elementalist for /serious/ gameplay in literally years, unfortunately. This, coming from one of the better D/D core duelists who has loved and practiced the class way before the cheese celestial ele days.

I'd love to know the goal of the class, because presently this is how I see weapon sets/specs:

Tempest> Worse than FB.Weaver S/D> Evasion spam with small enough DPS it's a wasted team slot.Core or weaver D/D> Just so outdated it's not funny. Why hasn't this spec received any buffs to make it part of the game?Burst Scepter/F/D> Worse than power GS mirage by so much it isn't funny, plus it can be 1-shotted from a longer distance than the aforementioned mes spec.Staff> Newbie wep in PvP.

Sounds like a fun class for those who love it deep down.

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The ele notes were a complete joke.Dual attune skills are a so clunky to use, that those "buffs" will do absolutely nothing for the class.Pyro vortex got 2 more pulses which is "meh" at best.

Other than that...nothing really changed for ele.The fact that you cant cast shearing edge or natural frenzey behind you also sucks.Ele is legit bottom of the food chain right now.

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@"BikeIsGone.8675" said:The ele notes were a complete joke.Dual attune skills are a so clunky to use, that those "buffs" will do absolutely nothing for the class.Pyro vortex got 2 more pulses which is "meh" at best.

Other than that...nothing really changed for ele.The fact that you cant cast shearing edge or natural frenzey behind you also sucks.Ele is legit bottom of the food chain right now.

Don't forget that they stealth nerfed elemental attunement. It's almost like schizophrenia at this point. They buff the skills for attuning to a single element because they want it to be a useful feature. But they nerf attuning to a single element by no longer giving you boons when you do it. Not being able to cast shearing edge and natural frenzy behind you also sucks, but I understand why they wanted to make these attacks consistent with the rest of the game. Too bad that the buffs that sword got barely made up for that nerf, if they did at all that is.

But ele being the bottom of the food chain is nothing new. This has been the norm since PoF release, which has been a period of 10 months. If the next ele patch notes do not contain miracles, then ele will surely be out of the meta for over a year. That's just insane. How can you let a class be trash for over a year?

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@Ganathar.4956 said:

@"BikeIsGone.8675" said:The ele notes were a complete joke.Dual attune skills are a so clunky to use, that those "buffs" will do absolutely nothing for the class.Pyro vortex got 2 more pulses which is "meh" at best.

Other than that...nothing really changed for ele.The fact that you cant cast shearing edge or natural frenzey behind you also sucks.Ele is legit bottom of the food chain right now.

(...) Not being able to cast shearing edge and natural frenzy behind you also sucks, but I understand why they wanted to make these attacks consistent with the rest of the game. (...)

Consistent? DH Deflecting shot works behind you. This was really really important for a lot of matchups like holo and warrior, where you need to keep some distance or even kite. Even with pyro vortex and the other minor buffs, this was already a nerf.

When I read about the double attunement nerf, it just became more obvious. That's more of a PVE/WvW-thing though, but I hate not being able to stack some speed for my mates at the beginning of the match.

You are absolutely right with the rest. How did ele deserve this again? :(

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@"Arheundel.6451" said:-You don't want it to heal...you nerfed tempest heal/sustain

-You don't want it to duel..you nerfed all duel specs, yesterday you nerfed sustain on weaver(stealth nerf on elemental attunement) and add dmg to skill with 130 range, you obliterated d/d set, nerfed its burst, nerfed mobility., nerfed fire trait line, removed might from cantrip trait

-You don't want it to burst ....you nerfed fresh air, you nerfed air minor burst, you nerfed scepter burst

-You don't want it to nuke burst..you nerf staff at every turn even in pvp where nobody used staff seriously since launch

Why a sane person would use an ele?-side noder?....with spellbreaker/holosmith/condi mirage even a druid if played well-team fight?...with what and in replacement of who?-burst?..............naaaa

I am lost, you keep nerfing this profession but offer no insight, no communication, no share of a vision....these look nerfs out of spite which don't make any sense to start with, this profession now excel at nothing and it's mediocre at everything when you put loads of effort into it at which point I can't help but ask myself : "where are the benefits in playing this profession?"

Just a single line of comment would be enough and it's not like I am demanding explanations or to be made part of the balance process, I genuinely don't know what to do with this class and I have been using it for well over 8k hrs and that's only reason I am coming back to it, all the time and money investment..it hurts to see it being pointless

Anything at this point would be better than complete silence

While this appears to be a factual post, have you not yet realized how strong Phantaram's Lightning Rod build is? Try it out.

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@Huskyboy.1053 said:

@"Arheundel.6451" said:-You don't want it to heal...you nerfed tempest heal/sustain

-You don't want it to duel..you nerfed all duel specs, yesterday you nerfed sustain on weaver
(stealth nerf on elemental attunement)
and add dmg to skill with 130 range, you obliterated d/d set, nerfed its burst, nerfed mobility., nerfed fire trait line, removed might from cantrip trait

-You don't want it to burst ....you nerfed fresh air, you nerfed air minor burst, you nerfed scepter burst

-You don't want it to nuke burst..you nerf staff at every turn even in pvp where nobody used staff seriously since launch

Why a sane person would use an ele?-side noder?....with spellbreaker/holosmith/condi mirage even a druid if played well-team fight?...with what and in replacement of who?-burst?..............naaaa

I am lost, you keep nerfing this profession but offer no insight, no communication, no share of a vision....these look nerfs out of spite which don't make any sense to start with, this profession now excel at nothing and it's mediocre at everything when you put loads of effort into it at which point I can't help but ask myself : "where are the benefits in playing this profession?"

Just a single line of comment would be enough and it's not like I am demanding explanations or to be made part of the balance process, I genuinely don't know what to do with this class and I have been using it for well over 8k hrs and that's only reason I am coming back to it, all the time and money investment..it hurts to see it being pointless

Anything at this point would be better than complete silence

While this appears to be a factual post, have you not yet realized how strong Phantaram's Lightning Rod build is? Try it out.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/283003173

He doesn't seem to think that much different from me

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@Huskyboy.1053 said:

@"Arheundel.6451" said:-You don't want it to heal...you nerfed tempest heal/sustain

-You don't want it to duel..you nerfed all duel specs, yesterday you nerfed sustain on weaver
(stealth nerf on elemental attunement)
and add dmg to skill with 130 range, you obliterated d/d set, nerfed its burst, nerfed mobility., nerfed fire trait line, removed might from cantrip trait

-You don't want it to burst ....you nerfed fresh air, you nerfed air minor burst, you nerfed scepter burst

-You don't want it to nuke burst..you nerf staff at every turn even in pvp where nobody used staff seriously since launch

Why a sane person would use an ele?-side noder?....with spellbreaker/holosmith/condi mirage even a druid if played well-team fight?...with what and in replacement of who?-burst?..............naaaa

I am lost, you keep nerfing this profession but offer no insight, no communication, no share of a vision....these look nerfs out of spite which don't make any sense to start with, this profession now excel at nothing and it's mediocre at everything when you put loads of effort into it at which point I can't help but ask myself : "where are the benefits in playing this profession?"

Just a single line of comment would be enough and it's not like I am demanding explanations or to be made part of the balance process, I genuinely don't know what to do with this class and I have been using it for well over 8k hrs and that's only reason I am coming back to it, all the time and money investment..it hurts to see it being pointless

Anything at this point would be better than complete silence

While this appears to be a factual post, have you not yet realized how strong Phantaram's Lightning Rod build is? Try it out.

His build was nerfed too after making Elements of Rage completly garbage.

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It's a PvE game built around what's "cool" and "class fantasy" ... I believe the competitive balance team (though they be few) does the best they can. I truly think they are so handcuffed by the professions team (who clearly do not PvP), they are incapable of making the necessary changes.

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@"pah.4931" said:It's a PvE game built around what's "cool" and "class fantasy" ... I believe the competitive balance team (though they be few) does the best they can. I truly think they are so handcuffed by the professions team (who clearly do not PvP), they are incapable of making the necessary changes.

Competetive balance team killed core FA for no reason.

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When it comes to pvp, celestial has almost always been the only viable amulet in that it suits what elementalist are supposed to be, sort of the jack of all trades. It's an awkward class (stat wise) because it has low vitality and toughness, compare that to something like guardian where yeah they have low health, but make up for that in defensive utilities, base healing and base toughness.

This means that they are shoehorned into investing into a variety of stats instead of just one, they need vitality, toughness, healing power, etc. and right now, the game doesn't provide enough coverage for those stats as they got rid of the truly "tanky" amulets.

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@Mr Godlike.6098 said:

@"Arheundel.6451" said:-You don't want it to heal...you nerfed tempest heal/sustain

-You don't want it to duel..you nerfed all duel specs, yesterday you nerfed sustain on weaver
(stealth nerf on elemental attunement)
and add dmg to skill with 130 range, you obliterated d/d set, nerfed its burst, nerfed mobility., nerfed fire trait line, removed might from cantrip trait

-You don't want it to burst ....you nerfed fresh air, you nerfed air minor burst, you nerfed scepter burst

-You don't want it to nuke burst..you nerf staff at every turn even in pvp where nobody used staff seriously since launch

Why a sane person would use an ele?-side noder?....with spellbreaker/holosmith/condi mirage even a druid if played well-team fight?...with what and in replacement of who?-burst?..............naaaa

I am lost, you keep nerfing this profession but offer no insight, no communication, no share of a vision....these look nerfs out of spite which don't make any sense to start with, this profession now excel at nothing and it's mediocre at everything when you put loads of effort into it at which point I can't help but ask myself : "where are the benefits in playing this profession?"

Just a single line of comment would be enough and it's not like I am demanding explanations or to be made part of the balance process, I genuinely don't know what to do with this class and I have been using it for well over 8k hrs and that's only reason I am coming back to it, all the time and money investment..it hurts to see it being pointless

Anything at this point would be better than complete silence

While this appears to be a factual post, have you not yet realized how strong Phantaram's Lightning Rod build is? Try it out.

His build was nerfed too after making Elements of Rage completly garbage.

EoR isn't completely garbage, changing from Power to Vitality is a small nerf for Phanta's build because he still gets Vitality from Mender's Amulet and Master's Fortitude. The decrease from 14% to 13% is negligible.

That damage loss is compensated by massive damage increases for Quantum Strike, Natural Frenzy, Cauterizing Strike, and increased pulses on Pyro Vortex. The Pyro Vortex improvement is significant because the duration of the skill hasn't increased, so the pulses happen more frequently, meaning that you now can hit a moving target with at least one more pulse.

Phanta's build is not nerfed, the same damage is there, but it's more concentrated on certain skills rather than just being high-dps all around. @Phantaram.4816 correct me if I'm wrong anywhere.

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@Huskyboy.1053 said:

@"Arheundel.6451" said:-You don't want it to heal...you nerfed tempest heal/sustain

-You don't want it to duel..you nerfed all duel specs, yesterday you nerfed sustain on weaver
(stealth nerf on elemental attunement)
and add dmg to skill with 130 range, you obliterated d/d set, nerfed its burst, nerfed mobility., nerfed fire trait line, removed might from cantrip trait

-You don't want it to burst ....you nerfed fresh air, you nerfed air minor burst, you nerfed scepter burst

-You don't want it to nuke burst..you nerf staff at every turn even in pvp where nobody used staff seriously since launch

Why a sane person would use an ele?-side noder?....with spellbreaker/holosmith/condi mirage even a druid if played well-team fight?...with what and in replacement of who?-burst?..............naaaa

I am lost, you keep nerfing this profession but offer no insight, no communication, no share of a vision....these look nerfs out of spite which don't make any sense to start with, this profession now excel at nothing and it's mediocre at everything when you put loads of effort into it at which point I can't help but ask myself : "where are the benefits in playing this profession?"

Just a single line of comment would be enough and it's not like I am demanding explanations or to be made part of the balance process, I genuinely don't know what to do with this class and I have been using it for well over 8k hrs and that's only reason I am coming back to it, all the time and money investment..it hurts to see it being pointless

Anything at this point would be better than complete silence

While this appears to be a factual post, have you not yet realized how strong Phantaram's Lightning Rod build is? Try it out.

His build was nerfed too after making Elements of Rage completly garbage.

isn't completely garbage, changing from Power to Vitality is a small nerf for Phanta's build because he still gets Vitality from Mender's Amulet and
. The decrease from 14% to 13% is negligible.

That damage loss is compensated by massive damage increases for Quantum Strike, Natural Frenzy, Cauterizing Strike, and increased pulses on Pyro Vortex. The Pyro Vortex improvement is significant because the duration of the skill hasn't increased, so the pulses happen more frequently, meaning that you now can hit a moving target with at least one more pulse.

Phanta's build is not nerfed, the same damage is there, but it's more concentrated on certain skills rather than just being high-dps all around. @Phantaram.4816 correct me if I'm wrong anywhere.

The crit damage was nerfed by about 5% on elements of rage on menders amulet which I would guess is about a 2% damage loss overall. Combined with the changes to shearing edge and natural frenzy I would say that the buffs to certain abilities damage like quantum strike, pyro vortex, and natural frenzy are situationally a damage buff but that overall and most of the time this is a damage nerf. The utility of being able to cast Shearing Edge and Natural Frenzy in all directions was extremely useful and gave you damage and Barrier in situations you needed to kite. I've adjusted to these changes but there are still times I go into earth/water and air/water and I end up not using the Shearing Edge or Natural Frenzy at all because of this change.

Overall a slight nerf but not much. It's just odd that weaver would be getting nerfed at all. For any build that uses dagger off-hand and doesn't use elements of rage I would say this is a very slight buff.

Edit: About Weaver's usefulness in general. In solo/duo queues I believe lightning rod is one of the strongest builds in the game. It is able to be very impactful in any situation. Kiting/running and wasting peoples time from survivability, team fighting, 1v1ing, mobility to create map presence. It ranks high in all 4 categories.

The problem is in organized 5v5s it might not have a role its completely optimal in as organized games get very rigid if you are not a thief or mesmer. The question essentially comes down to are you optimal in 1v1s or team fights. And, like I said, if you aren't thief or mesmer, and you do not fall into the 2 categories of optimal in 1v1s or team fights, you likely aren't going to be taken. That doesn't mean weaver is bad it's just not quite optimal. But no ones really tested it these are just my thoughts without 5v5 competitive experience on weaver currently. If I had to guess where it could be optimal it would be team fights. I feel pretty strong in them.

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