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The highly distubring fate of Joko raises some questions


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So all it took to kill him was to tear him limb from limb like that? How come nobody has ever tried to simply behead him before?

Personally I'm not convinced he is dead.

In his own words, his immortality is quite amazing. There is in my mind a distinct possibility that if you were to behead him, the head would remain alive - Black Knight style. Awakened seem far more durable than that, and Joko was the uber-Awakened. Lesser Awakaned have been brought back to undeath after getting all messed up and thought dead, too.

Which of course raises the posibility that he might still be alive inside of Aurene in some kind of horrible, horrible vore-inspired fever nightmare....!

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@"Oglaf.1074" said:So all it took to kill him was to tear him limb from limb like that? How come nobody has ever tried to simply behead him before?

Well, first of all, he wasn't beheaded: he was eaten. By a dragon, one of the world's primal forces. So I think I'd translate the question as, "how come none of the other dragons tried to eat him before?" (Answer: because they don't seem to care much about other sentient life forms.)

Second, we don't know how it was he escaped death before. If he had a horcrux phylactery, maybe he needed time to use it and didn't get a chance because he thought he had already won this battle. Or maybe Aurene's magic prevented his soul from reaching it. Maybe he ran out of soulboxes (although, like the overplanning project manager that he is, that seems unlikely; he has more contingency plans than NASA). Maybe his soul tried to escape and was consumed by Aurene? Maybe the commander weakened him more than he thought?

Which of course raises the posibility that he might still be alive inside of Aurene in some kind of horribly, horrible vore-inspired fever nightmare....!Sure, that could be true. I hope it's not because I've never enjoyed the fantasy trope of epic enemies that keep coming back. The Green Goblin and the Joker and yes, the Daleks become less appealing to me with each iteration. (Probably because I think it shows a lack of imagination on the part of the authors.) That's not to say it never works; I just don't like to see it as the first choice, unless there's a strong compelling story behind it.

Mind you: I do hope the story takes a moment or three to (ahem) flesh out what exactly happened to the lich, even though I don't agree that there's some sort of plot hole or much chance of a Joko Part IV.

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Beheaded, dismembered, eaten - all the same really. Devastating bodily harm. Something the Awakened prior have shown quite the impressive resistance to. It just seems odd to finish Joko off with that method as you'd think it'd be quite ineffective (which he proved just seconds before).

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@Oglaf.1074 said:Beheaded, dismembered, eaten - all the same really. Devastating bodily harm. Something the Awakened prior have shown quite the impressive resistance to. It just seems odd to finish Joko off with that method as you'd think it'd be quite ineffective (which he proved just seconds before).

Because Aurene didn't just eat his body, which he probably could have come back from just fine. She ate his magic as well. Having his magic was absolutely necessary for him to survive.

I had called Aurene eating Joko as being his final death, I just didn't expect it to happen this episode.

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@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@Oglaf.1074 said:So all it took to kill him was to tear him limb from limb like that? How come nobody has ever tried to simply behead him before?he thought he had already won this battle.

Wrong. When you finish the final mission, you can find a statue that reveals a recording he made exactly because he thought he could die during the fight.

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@Ephemiel.5694 said:

@Oglaf.1074 said:So all it took to kill him was to tear him limb from limb like that? How come nobody has ever tried to simply behead him before?he thought he had already won this battle.

Wrong. When you finish the final mission, you can find a statue that reveals a recording he made exactly because he thought he could die during the fight.I think you've misunderstood the point I'm making, besides also not accounting for some possibilities.
  • Joko's reputation as being undefeatable, unkillable is mostly due to ... Joko's self-promotion. Folk think he can't be killed because he claims he can't be.
  • Even if that's not the case, the recording he made was a small part of his many, many, many contingency plans. The fact that he made it only let's us know he was prepared to lose that battle. At the moment that Aurene swept in, however, he clearly was unprepared — at that moment, he was convinced he was done.
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@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@"Oglaf.1074" said:So all it took to kill him was to tear him limb from limb like that? How come nobody has ever tried to simply behead him before?he thought he had already won this battle.

Wrong. When you finish the final mission, you can find a statue that reveals a recording he made exactly because he thought he could die during the fight.I think you've misunderstood the point I'm making, besides also not accounting for some possibilities.
  • Joko's reputation as being undefeatable, unkillable is mostly due to ... Joko's self-promotion. Folk think he can't be killed because he claims he can't be.
  • Even if that's not the case, the recording he made was a small part of his many, many, many contingency plans. The fact that he made it only let's us know he was prepared to lose that battle. At the moment that Aurene swept in, however, he clearly was unprepared — at that moment, he was convinced he was done.

Joko's rep for being unkillable is, quite literally, because he's a Lich. Hell, WE "kill" him and he happily stands back up.

The whole point for that recording, and why it's unavailable till we finish that mission, is to imply that he not only knows far more than he lets on, but that he actually truly considered the fact he might die.

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@Oglaf.1074 said:So all it took to kill him was to tear him limb from limb like that? How come nobody has ever tried to simply behead him before?

If you watch the cinematic, there's a burst of magical energy the very moment Aurene first chomps down on him. It isn't a simple case of tearing him limb from limb - he was already dead by the time Aurene was eating him. It was a case of the magic that made him immortal being destroyed.

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@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

  • Joko's reputation as being undefeatable, unkillable is mostly due to ... Joko's self-promotion. Folk think he can't be killed because he claims he can't be.To expand on Ephemial's response, the reputation wasn't even Joko's doing. It originally stemed from Turai Ossa and the fledgling Order of Whispers doing everything they could think of to try to kill him... and failing. Joko mentions being 'sundered' while he was sealed away before GW1, so this wasn't the first time he was bodily torn apart. He somehow managed to piece himself back together, seemingly without outside intervention.
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@Aaron Ansari.1604 said:

  • Joko's reputation as being undefeatable, unkillable is mostly due to ... Joko's self-promotion. Folk think he can't be killed because he claims he can't be.To expand on Ephemial's response, the reputation wasn't even Joko's doing. It originally stemed from Turai Ossa and the fledgling Order of Whispers doing everything they could think of to try to kill him... and failing. Joko mentions being 'sundered' while he was sealed away before GW1, so this wasn't the first time he was bodily torn apart. He somehow managed to piece himself back together, seemingly without outside intervention.

Maybe he didn't invent the idea of being unkillable. But he's certainly used in marketing his brand. My point is: we don't really know that he's unkillable. We just know that he says he is (and ok, other people think it, too).

It's like being surprised that Stainless Steel can be ... stained. Despite the name, it's never been better than stain-resistant.

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"It's a FAKE!" ~ Vreenak

See, what happened was, when Joko zapped that nearby Awakened, he didn't absorb it's, ah, undead force? -- magical energy? -- whatever -- he actually switched places with it, presto-switcho, ya know, oldest trick in the book, and while our intrepid commanders and Braham-Braham were all caught up (literally) listening as false Joko carried on with the evil-villain tirade, the real Joko quietly slipped away to plot again another day.

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@"Tachenon.5270" said:"It's a FAKE!" ~ Vreenak

See, what happened was, when Joko zapped that nearby Awakened, he didn't absorb it's, ah, undead force? -- magical energy? -- whatever -- he actually switched places with it, presto-switcho, ya know, oldest trick in the book, and while our intrepid commanders and Braham-Braham were all caught up (literally) listening as false Joko carried on with the evil-villain tirade, the real Joko quietly slipped away to plot again another day.

OK all I can hear in my head now is this, with visions of Joko tip-toeing out of view

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9OPc7MRm4Y8

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@"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

I hope it's not because I've never enjoyed the fantasy trope of epic enemies that keep coming back. The Green Goblin and the Joker and yes, the Daleks become less appealing to me with each iteration. (Probably because I think it shows a lack of imagination on the part of the authors.)

Hey whoa hey uncalled for why are we bringing the Daleks into this? EX-PLAIN?!RCPX0um.gif

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Yeah, I'm curious whether Joko is really dead, or if his "essence" is just being held inside Aurene.

Let's assume Aurene becomes a fully-grown Elder Dragon, and does the usual Elder Dragon thing of consuming a bunch of magic, then going to sleep for thousands of years... and then several millennia later, that magic starts to slowly seep out of her. Perhaps in another 10,000 years we'll finally see Joko again (though I can't imagine he'd be in a very good state of mind after being imprisoned in the gut of a dragon for that long.)

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