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Power Reaper Benchmarks - Pros & Cons Of Power Reaper


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I honestly don’t care what class or build for dps as long as you can bring in the dps. The problem with that though is 90% of the time when people bring in a non meta build, or something different, they can never bring in the dps. The team is usually carrying that person.

So say (if) billy bob brought reaper and was hitting 10k on bosses in fractals the whole time. And then spiking close to 20k. I won’t say anything at all. And he will be accepted. But if the reaper is hitting only 2,3k in all fights. Then that’s when I usually have a problem. But that goes with every dps class for me. Not just reaper.

Same thing for raiding. It would depend on which raid boss. But, If say we’re doing gors and the reaper is only hitting 13,14k. I would politely ask to switch to a more sufficient class. However with (me). I truly don’t care what build a person brings as long as they bring in big dps. Or atleast ok dps for us to make it through. But if it feels like my team is carrying. That’s when I usually start to say something.

However meta builds I honestly don’t care. If someone tries something different and does great I truly will not care. But it’s when these guys say oh meta builds are just for elitists and then that person is just hitting 12k in m.o. it’s a problem.

So if truly reaper can hit 18-20k on kc. I wanna see just so I can let people know it’s a good build to bring. All I truly want is if people try new things. Or things against meta. Then bring it, you know? Don’t try something different and it’s booty compared to other builds.

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@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

  • I always run the Soul Reaping variant because it deals a lot more damage. <- Soul Reaping is how to near 30k benchmarks.this is a lie. blood magic deals more damage. if you're getting 28k dps or more with soul reaping and realistic setup, it's not truly realistic and you messed some setting up. feel free to prove me wrong with combat log and a video (with trait window, sigils and consumables shown)

I already did this and then removed the video because I wasn't using the snowcrow standard of boons/condis. I ran other test afterwards while using the benchmark standards but chose not to take the time to edit/upload/post the video because the results were unremarkable and really no different than anything else that has been posted before it. I did change the OP post to detail the 2nd test however. But the bigger reason why I chose to not take my time to provide any further data is because of overly aggressive and unreasonable responses from the community.

Nothing can be right or real or good enough, unless it is posted by a meta website or a popular commercial streamer, and even when those sources are slightly inaccurate or sometimes flat out wrong, they're still right. It's the "Coca-Cola effect", where so much word of mouth & commercialism has made everyone believe that it is the king of all sodas, regardless of the fact that so many other better sodas exists or at the least, sodas that match it's quality in a different way.

I actually enjoy providing data & feedback for gaming communities but it isn't worth my time when it catches nothing but negative response. If you want the data & results of my 2nd test, go spend the gold to do it yourself.

PS. 27k and 28k Soul Reaping benchmarks are achieved easily with Soul Reaping Dhuumfire spam rotations while using snowcrow standard benchmark tests. Spitting out 6 to 8 stacks of burning with 25 might is quite a bit more damage than the leeching from Blood, come to find out. I was surprised myself.

@Sephylon.4938 Thanks for the response.

Are you playing other classes or only Necro? I was Power Reaper player only until this month, and I was just like you. I though my dps and performance is just fine. But then I started doing higher Fractals. Bosses become harder, there was much more abilities to dodge, everything started doing so much dmg to the point were I was getting one shotted with 20k hp. In the end I noticed that the GS attacks are too slow, and often I had to interupt them to not get killed. Gravedigger rotation was really hard to pull, and I could use shround only to pull the Shroud4 otherwsie I would lose the lf too fast.

So I decided to check Power Mesmer. And the difference was huge. I had much more utility like pull, time warp, better CC etc. I had just as much or even better survi, because my healer could heal me with no issues, and I had access to clones, better heals etc. And on top of that I was doing much higher dps, with much less efford. On the bosses where I had around 10k dps, as Chrono i had 15k+ dps. And where I had 15k as reaper, I had nearly 25k as chrono.

I really want Reaper to be good in fractals, but he is just too slow for it, and we lacking in the utility. His abilities would need to deal much more dmg to be worth locking yourself in the animation and risking being knocked down.

If someone is really want to play Fractals as necro right now, I would recommend going Heal Scourge. He is capable of carrying any group while still doing 10k dps~ if played perfectly.

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@Sublimatio.6981 said:

@"Naustis.8510" said:And where I had 15k as reaper, I had nearly 25k as chrono.maybe you just don't know how to reaper? because i am getting 25k as reaper no problems. here, random log:

The point still stands. Your group dps is 29k, my groups are usually around 5k... haha. But if a players who knows how to play s mesmer better than I do would have higher dps in the same environment of course. And I am sure if you would play a power chrono or any stronger dps with the exactly same environment as on logs you would be around 30k~

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@"Naustis.8510" said:And I am sure if you would play a power chrono or any stronger dps with the exactly same environment as on logs you would be around 30k~but i am already close to 30k on reaper in this environment, that log was just some random one. look - another log this time from today. https://dps.report/ZLYV-20180728-234820_siaxand supposed "better classes" are basically on the same level as me or a bit worse. so how does your point still stand?

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@Sublimatio.6981 said:

@"Naustis.8510" said:And I am sure if you would play a power chrono or any stronger dps with the exactly same environment as on logs you would be around 30k~but i am already close to 30k on reaper in this environment, that log was just some random one. look - another log this time from today.
and supposed "better classes" are basically on the same level as me or a bit worse. so how does your point still stand?

because you could do even better if you would choose a profession that allows to aim even higher dps. and then you would carry the group even harder. with pure dps.

atleast that is what i can hear in the background of reddit and the forums. and maybe they are right. maybe not... on paper they probably are

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@Sublimatio.6981 said:

@"Naustis.8510" said:And I am sure if you would play a power chrono or any stronger dps with the exactly same environment as on logs you would be around 30k~but i am already close to 30k on reaper in this environment, that log was just some random one. look - another log this time from today.
and supposed "better classes" are basically on the same level as me or a bit worse. so how does your point still stand?

Just like Aetatis said. Being matched with weaker players than you are, do not make your class stronger. If you would have someone with the same skill lvl as you but playing on top class, when you had 30k, he would do around 37k-39k (reaper dps is about 20-30% behind others) while bringing more utility.Do you have logs from any more 'competitive'boss which is not just downed golem simulator? 1min long fight is not a good example of what you can or cannot do.

So far your logs are proving only one thing. As 'the benchmark'guy from Necro you still can't beat other players who are playing classes that are bringing much more to the team. Even on burst fights where Reaper is not that bad.

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Reaper is great in fractals and only does a little less DPS than other DPS professions in boss fights. Reaper has so many support skills that can help carry that those other professions cannot do better. When I play I routinely help pull in mobs, blind, instantly remove boons, help with break bar, destroy missiles, and provide life leech. Other DPS can’t do half those things and the support can’t always do it either. It obviously has its strengths and weaknesses that are encounter specific but overall I always welcome a well played reaper on my team. Same goes for any profession.

I would like more damage though!

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@Capicorp.1537 said:Reaper is great in fractals and only does a little less DPS than other DPS professions in boss fights. Reaper has so many support skills that can help carry that those other professions cannot do better. When I play I routinely help pull in mobs, blind, instantly remove boons, help with break bar, destroy missiles, and provide life leech. Other DPS can’t do half those things and the support can’t always do it either. It obviously has its strengths and weaknesses that are encounter specific but overall I always welcome a well played reaper on my team. Same goes for any profession.

I would like more damage though!

staff dd or any thief with a pistol can blind better than you, or an ele with glyph of storm in earth can blind and do more damage while blinding. Spellbreakers and mesmers do boon rip better as they can boon rip while providing buffs, banners and quickness+alac respectively. You're seriously taking cpc? Wall of reflect, feed back, taking warden's feedback on a mes and aegis spam from mes/heal fb would do it better since the mes would still bring quickness and alac while doing all that, and the fb can either be a healer, or do more damage to bosses as a condi spec. Mesmers, and double cc pet druids will out cc you. Necro's life leech values are worse than a druid's regen tick.

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I see a lot of opinions from people looking at only benchmark potential, considering only the one situation that the Power Reaper is trying to find a place within a perfect meta party. This is not what we are discussing in this thread. No one is arguing that other classes have better DPS potential in very organized groups of very experienced players. What is being discussed here, is what a Power Reaper is capable of doing when he is joining rando PUG groups. From an experienced Power Reaper player, here are some of the things that stand out to me, about Power Reaper utility.

Specific Fractal Utility:

  • Aetherblade = Flesh Wurm grants many shortcuts here. Flesh Wurm paired with Spectral Walk and condi clears, allows a Reaper to solo the laser room consoles.
  • Nightmare = Reaper Shroud in conjunction with Spectral Armor, makes Reaper one of the easiest classes to carry Ensolyss cap phases in a failing group. With proper use of shroud mitigation, it can solo cap 2 to 3 nodes itself, even in CM.
  • Swampland = Flesh Wurm & Spectral Walk allows a wise Reaper to solo two orbs in the beginning and also solo 2 orbs during Bloomhunger, if he needs to carry a party.
  • Thaumanova = Reapers can solo the damage room due to Flesh Wurm, Shroud 2, and full Shroud. Just need to start the room out of shroud first, use the heal and then go into Shroud.
  • Uncategorized = Reapers have one of the easiest times jumping through harpies. Stabilities from Shroud 3, Chilled to the Bone "which are both CCs that stop harpy actions", and in general large tankiness to make it to the top so everyone else can /gg. It also offers minion spam at Old Tom to block poison projectiles, which is incredibly helpful in any party.
  • Underground = Minion spam makes finishing the console much easier, whether the Reaper is doing it or he is covering for someone else doing it.
  • Urban = Reapers have many AoE CCs and this allows them to draw and control the initial mob near Dulfy, while the other players DPS Dulfy. A wise Reaper player can solo that initial mob easily and avoid almost all damage with proper use of CCs.

General Fractal Utility:

  • If a Reaper changes "Reaper's Onslaught" to "Blighter's Boon" and has Force/Strength on each side of his weapon sets, he sacrifices a bit of DPS to become incredibly tanky. This mixed with Golden Dumplings "for might on crits" or some life steal food, mixed with all the other life steal he has, allows him to solo T4 or even some CM bosses, if it comes down to needing to do it. We don't need to argue about /gging being faster. I said, if it comes down to it. This not only makes him tanky, but it also guarantees perpetual self sustained 25 might stacks, along with self sustained 25 vulnerability on the boss. The truth is that when it is by itself, the Power Reaper is dealing just as good of DPS or better, than any other class in the game, due to the perma 25 might/perma 25 vuln. It is debatable that Power Reaper might actually be the strongest solo class in terms of soloing combat situations.
  • Reapers can configure for large amounts of wide radius AoE CCs, chills and even large radius AoE blinding. A wise Reaper can utilize this to protect his party. Rather than tossing and spitting heals, he can take the frontlines of the failing party and make sure the mobs aren't able to burst his party to begin with. <- This is huge while carrying a party.

This discussion has eluded the one big strength that Reapers or any Necro build has, and that is that they can very conveniently swap utilities to accommodate the current situation, without at all disrupting their build structure. <- This is something that not enough Necro players truly take advantage of. This utility swapping ranges from teleportation, to higher bursting, to more CCs, to blinding, to minion spam cleave soaking, ect.. ect.. In my opinion after 6+ years of play, Necromancer builds are absolutely the most versatile in this aspect. ALL of their utilities are ALWAYS useful, no matter what build they are running.

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@Astralporing.1957 said:In short, what you're saying is that reaper is a good choice in a bad party. It's not so good choice in a good party.

No.

Reapers are a good solid choice as a class/build that can play in any group, regardless of what the other players are running. And in poor groups, it is better at carrying through losing combat situations than any other class, without support from anyone else.

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@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:In short, what you're saying is that reaper is a good choice in a bad party. It's not so good choice in a good party.

No.

Reapers are a good solid choice as a class/build that can play in any group, regardless of what the other players are running. And in poor groups, it is better at carrying through losing combat situations than any other class, without support from anyone else.

Mesmers, Wars, Druids, Engis, Guardians, and even Thiefs are saying Hi when it is comming to carrying groups. Power Reaper isn't even good in carrying groups. Scourge is doing that much better.

BTW. You still didn't answer my previous question so we can assume you are a Necro only player who is playing only low tier fractals?

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@Sanity Obscure.6054 said:

@Alchimist.4738 said:Yes, I've yet to witness a good Power Reaper going beyond 10k in PUGs.

I regularly do about 8-13k realistic DPS, depending on boons and traits recieved and DPS I forfeit from rezzing and manuvering on certain boss mechanics in fractals.

The common talk of 25k+ dps is something I have only seen in raids, and in all my time doing t4 fractals I see good DPS classes usually only get around 11-15k and still down and rely on Necros and Druids to rez them. 16-17k is a very rare sight and I've only seen it on Mesmer and Guard.

Reaper shroud also helps brace damage in a bad situation where multiple people down and I find myself rezzing 3 in succession, which is quite common in PUGs. I find myself rezzing Druids as well.

16-17k is gs autoattack with raidbuffs...

And yes. I've never seen a good power reaper in any of my groups

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It's not that it is selfish. Like @Astral said, Necromancers can be a real asset in a bad party. Same as a support Tempest. That's not playing alone. And it is something the games should offer anyway, because realistically most parties will be bad. The sad part isn't that you can make a build to carry bad groups. The sad part is you don't have much to offer in good ones. Sure, people like Subli (or Teapot for that matter) can make it work. But it takes a lot of effort and dedication to get that good and it doesn't feel good when all of it results in being... average. At best.

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  • 2 weeks later...

The one thing some people still playing Necro, especially those thinking they are carrying groups, need to understand is that half the reason the Meta builds are dying in your run, is because the Necro does too little DPS to phase the boss at the appropriate time, causing the encounters to become much more difficult, to a point where only something like a Necro might survive them.

Properly played meta DPS's are not only faster, they are also safer and make the encounters much easier.

Sure it's viable, but people need to understand what massive difference 2-8k more damage per second makes over 5-10 minute long fights, especially on multiple group members.Meta DPS were not designed to survive these encounters for minutes at a time, they are designed to phase them in as little seconds as possible and therefore clash with Necro, which is why it isn't wanted in high end groups.You are not carrying the group, your lackluster DPS is dooming them, so then you have to rez them, making the whole thing a lot slower and less enjoyable experience for everybody else.I was Necro main once too..

Where Necro shines is if everybody else is playing badly, or playing something lacklustre as well, which is not a good look for a profession.

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@Asum.4960 said:The one thing some people still playing Necro, especially those thinking they are carrying groups, need to understand is that half the reason the Meta builds are dying in your run, is because the Necro does too little DPS to phase the boss at the appropriate time, causing the encounters to become much more difficult, to a point where only something like a Necro might survive them.

Properly played meta DPS's are not only faster, they are also safer and make the encounters much easier.

Sure it's viable, but people need to understand what massive difference 2-8k more damage per second makes over 5-10 minute long fights, especially on multiple group members.Meta DPS were not designed to survive these encounters for minutes at a time, they are designed to phase them in as little seconds as possible and therefore clash with Necro, which is why it isn't wanted in high end groups.You are not carrying the group, your lackluster DPS is dooming them, so then you have to rez them, making the whole thing a lot slower and less enjoyable experience for everybody else.I was Necro main once too..

Where Necro shines is if everybody else is playing badly, or playing something lacklustre as well, which is not a good look for a profession.

So the difference between a build dealing 25k vs. a build dealing 30k is that big huh? I mean with your comparison it would hurt the group to run anything DPS wise that wasn't a Weaver. I guess only Chronos/Druids/Weavers are applicable.

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@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:So the difference between a build dealing 25k vs. a build dealing 30k is that big huh? I mean with your comparison it would hurt the group to run anything DPS wise that wasn't a Weaver. I guess only Chronos/Druids/Weavers are applicable.

If I wanted to be a purist (And that was the case for many groups before the latest balance patch) yes, exactly.

Nevermind regular fractals but even CM bosses can be absolutely massacred by high DPS. I notice this every day and I am okay with DPS classes as long as they are not condition based and can potentially hit 20k DPS.

Skorvald? Deplete his breakbar once the fight begins and phase him before he can finish his horizon slam (or whatever the circular pattern is called). The same in the next phase and kill him while he is spinning around.

Artsariiv? Phased on her current spot, never jumping around the platform, lowest DPS doing the orb mechanic

Arkk? Kill one anomaly and phase him. This fight becomes much, much harder when your DPS is low than when it is high to the point that even veteran groups (150kp+) fail him when the <30% phase turns into a clown fiesta because he stacks all mechanics + DDR Laser on top of getting tankier as more pylons are repaired. Do the same phase with 50-60k groupdps and it's smooth sailing.

MAMA? Break bar, DPS, go to first Watchknight, repeat. You can easily skip the Powerdome attack or additional miasma fields <35% with high DPS/instant breaks which in return means MAMA has just a few windows to attack.

Siax? phased before he can shoot the splitting poison field that you usually have to kite outside, depending on instabilities you might even be able to ignore the CC phase and just burst him to the next split between 66% and 33%.

Ensyloss? If played right you will only see him once perform his groundslam+shockwave+illusion combo after the initial break as the boss turns into a test golem from 66% to 0%. The worst part here is that if your DPS is too good your Chrono won't have his Split back up when you can attack him again at 33%.


I mean we can joke about a lot of META-players being unable to perform outside their Ivory towers and I, too, see that regularly with players practically begging to be babysat by their personal druid. The end result though is that I can regularly finish CMs+T4 under an hour or under 45 minutes if either CM is part of the rotation and if I were to forego a druid it would be even faster I guess.

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@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@Asum.4960 said:The one thing some people still playing Necro, especially those thinking they are carrying groups, need to understand is that half the reason the Meta builds are dying in your run, is because the Necro does too little DPS to phase the boss at the appropriate time, causing the encounters to become much more difficult, to a point where only something like a Necro might survive them.

Properly played meta DPS's are not only faster, they are also safer and make the encounters much easier.

Sure it's viable, but people need to understand what massive difference 2-8k more damage
per second
makes over 5-10 minute long fights, especially on multiple group members.Meta DPS were not designed to survive these encounters for minutes at a time, they are designed to phase them in as little seconds as possible and therefore clash with Necro, which is why it isn't wanted in high end groups.You are not carrying the group, your lackluster DPS is dooming them, so then you have to rez them, making the whole thing a lot slower and less enjoyable experience for everybody else.I was Necro main once too..

Where Necro shines is if everybody else is playing badly, or playing something lacklustre as well, which is not a good look for a profession.

So the difference between a build dealing 25k vs. a build dealing 30k is that big huh? I mean with your comparison it would hurt the group to run anything DPS wise that wasn't a Weaver. I guess only Chronos/Druids/Weavers are applicable.

That depends. Aside from DPS, burst also goes a long way, especially in Fractals.

Deadeye, Weaver, Holo, power Soulbeast and even still DH make for a much smoother experience, either due to very high burst or high sustained DPS with little to no ramp up time.Necromancer has neither, which is a problem.Even Power Spb, which outperforms Necro by an easy 6k got overnerfed in a recent patch, considering it's ramp up time, it just falls behind in the current quick burst and phase design of bosses across the game.

The difference between a 25k and a 30k DPS build is 2000000-3000000 damage over the average boss fight in the same time frame, so yes, it's significant.Even more so important though is the mentioned phasing before devastating mechanics.

I always find Siax in 99CM to be a good example of this, where low DPS groups face more and more mechanics with less and less playable space and DPS uptime by forcing people to move out, and more CC phases than the meta builds are designed to handle, with cooldowns not aligning.

Meanwhile with good DPS, it's a breeze.

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The last few posts mentioned how DPS makes it easier to, quite literally, skip mechanics. I experience that myself as someone who usually plays Chrono/Druid, it's like I'm not even trying when the DPS is there but otherwise mechanics are just impossible to handle (of course they are, because meta builds are not meant for surviving at all but rather outliving). Thing is, is this kind of skip really OK? Is the training golem the ultimate boss? Is damage perhaps not far too high all across the board? I'll be kinda sad if Ben admits that he wanted people to actually not have to learn dodging the Arkk CM mechanics for example, and rather just pumped up so much damage they would not have to worry about it.

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The irony is that if you were to nerf damage across the board you would likely not impact the top players and build creators at all and just make the content harder for everyone else because boons do nothing but make the numbers higher. Solely alacrity and quickness have an impact on damage rotations.

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I actually run Power DH in fractals btw. I'm only indulging this conversation for the sake of debate because I have a great deal of experience with Power Reaper.

I think one of the things to point out is that a lot of newer players will choose Power Reapers or any Necro build for that matter. This makes the build structure look a lot more inept than it actually is.

Pointing out again: I never said Power Reaper was a high-end meta build. I said it wasn't as god awful terrible as many believe it to be, and that it actually has unique utility for carrying groups full of inept players.

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@Grogba.6204 said:Siax? phased before he can shoot the splitting poison field that you usually have to kite outside, depending on instabilities you might even be able to ignore the CC phase and just burst him to the next split between 66% and 33%.

That doesn't depend on instabilities though. You only see the breakbar appear when the dps fucks up hard. You kind of have to skip it for a clean kill anyways or you can insta cc in last phase.

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@Nephalem.8921 said:

@Grogba.6204 said:Siax? phased before he can shoot the splitting poison field that you usually have to kite outside, depending on instabilities you might even be able to ignore the CC phase and just burst him to the next split between 66% and 33%.

That doesn't depend on instabilities though. You only see the breakbar appear when the dps kitten up hard. You kind of have to skip it for a clean kill anyways or you can't insta cc in last phase.

The safe zone(inside the hitbox), without social awkwardness and toxic trail.

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