[Suggestion] Shroud CD run down after Shroudentry

[Zero.3871]

Since last patch Meteors destroying whole zergs, invulns get way better and... scourge is also dead for its last viable Contents? I hope we can finally leave the "lets-firstly-destroy-every-single viable-necromancer-build-in-this-game-Phase". Since we are obviously the only class that is not allowed to have 50%+ invuln uptime and also shrouduptime got nerfed over and over again in the past i still think a better Access to shroud would help necros a lot, because its the only defense mechanic we are allowed to have.

atm the counterplay to necros is easy, wait until shroud Decay force them to leave the shroud and than beat the shit out of them in the 10 seconds window until next shroud entry.

so why cant the 10 seconds cooldown of shroudentry run down after ENTERING shroud instead of after LEAVING shroud?

so if i stay for 10 seconds in shroud and than leaving, the next entry is already Ready (thats the gain). we STILL HAVE the limiting factor that e.g. on reaper the 10 seconds in shroud cost 50% lifeforce (5% every second), so we couldnt do that permanently. if we leave the shroud earlier we save LF but open the Opponent an attack window. so LF Management get more important. but the necros than can counter that supid "lets outrun the slowliest class in the game" Gameplay because Windows for counterplay would be overall a Little smaller.

a smaller cd in General would buff all traits that proc on shroudentry and Maybe make it OP. But the 10 sec are already in the game without being OP.but atm to use shroud entry every 10 seconds necro obviously cant use any skills while in shroud (cause already RS 4 and 5 Needs 5 sec to get casted).

[NecroSummonsMors.7816]

Having the shroud cooldown start when entering in shroud would be amazing. For example if you stay long enough in shroud then get stunned, you could get out breakstun and get in shroud again. It would be an awesome improvement to the shroud gameplay. Core necro would benefit from this change a lot( we would still have the problem of long cooldown skills, but i mean better than nothing) and with reaper you can easily make it work, so at least you dont have to wait another 10s to get in shroud again. The windows for counterplay would still be there because once lf is finished you cannot get in shroud anyway, so if u lose it because ppl kite you while in shroud you'll get punished anyway.I like your suggestion a lot.

[Dadnir.5038]

In all objectivity, this is a broken OP suggestion, especially for WvW zergling.

[Zero.3871]

@Dadnir.5038 said:In all objectivity, this is a broken OP suggestion, especially for WvW zergling.

i would appreciate if you give me a Scenario that i can follow you, why this would be OP in zergfights :-).

i think its not Op in zergs because:

while necro is in shroud he cant get healed. so if he get pressure and enter his shroud with 20% life he will still have 20% when leaving shroud. so while he is in shroud he dont refresh like other classes when they have invulns up (like warrior, ele, rev).core necro has huge cd (40 sec) on his main aoe dmg skills DS 4 and 5 (and just 600 range). the other skills are not that big deal. so ele and rev would be still better dmg dealer.reaper is only melee class in shroud. and its pirate ship meta. their lifeforce will draine instantly if he try to push while in shroud. cause lifeforce bar cant get healed too. without lifeforce he has to leave shroud and is attackable too until he get LF back. and no one is really complaining About warrior having 14 sec of invuln to solo push 60 man zergs. my Suggestion would still way weaker than warrior invulns in zergfights. so if Warriors are fine reaper should also be fine with that.both shrouds Arent stronger than any other classes. so why it should be that OP if necro has higher Access to shroud in zergfights?

this class would be still limited by large casttimes, large cooldowns and small lf regenerating skills.

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

@Zero.3871 said:

@Dadnir.5038 said:In all objectivity, this is a broken OP suggestion, especially for WvW zergling.

i would appreciate if you give me a Scenario that i can follow you, why this would be OP in zergfights :-).

i think its not Op in zergs because:

while necro is in shroud he cant get healed. so if he get pressure and enter his shroud with 20% life he will still have 20% when leaving shroud. so while he is in shroud he dont refresh like other classes when they have invulns up (like warrior, ele, rev).core necro has huge cd (40 sec) on his main aoe dmg skills DS 4 and 5 (and just 600 range). the other skills are not that big deal. so ele and rev would be still better dmg dealer.reaper is only melee class in shroud. and its pirate ship meta. their lifeforce will draine instantly if he try to push while in shroud. cause lifeforce bar cant get healed too. without lifeforce he has to leave shroud and is attackable too until he get LF back. and no one is really complaining About warrior having 14 sec of invuln to solo push 60 man zergs. my Suggestion would still way weaker than warrior invulns in zergfights. so if Warriors are fine reaper should also be fine with that.both shrouds Arent stronger than any other classes. so why it should be that OP if necro has higher Access to shroud in zergfights?

this class would be still limited by large casttimes, large cooldowns and small lf regenerating skills.

You forgot to mention that while in Shroud, a Necro doesn't receive life force from nearby deaths, which is what most of your life force gains in zerg battles are.

[EremiteAngel.9765]

This is a great suggestion for Reaper.

Would be a tad OP on core since they are harder to kite and don't suffer harsh shroud degen.

But it's actually just another way of saying: "Give Reapers back the 7 seconds Shroud CD!"

And I fully support this.

[Dadnir.5038]

@Zero.3871 said:

@"Dadnir.5038" said:In all objectivity, this is a broken OP suggestion, especially for WvW zergling.

i would appreciate if you give me a Scenario that i can follow you, why this would be OP in zergfights :-).

i think its not Op in zergs because:

while necro is in shroud he cant get healed. so if he get pressure and enter his shroud with 20% life he will still have 20% when leaving shroud. so while he is in shroud he dont refresh like other classes when they have invulns up (like warrior, ele, rev).core necro has huge cd (40 sec) on his main aoe dmg skills DS 4 and 5 (and just 600 range). the other skills are not that big deal. so ele and rev would be still better dmg dealer.reaper is only melee class in shroud. and its pirate ship meta. their lifeforce will draine instantly if he try to push while in shroud. cause lifeforce bar cant get healed too. without lifeforce he has to leave shroud and is attackable too until he get LF back. and no one is really complaining About warrior having 14 sec of invuln to solo push 60 man zergs. my Suggestion would still way weaker than warrior invulns in zergfights. so if Warriors are fine reaper should also be fine with that.both shrouds Arent stronger than any other classes. so why it should be that OP if necro has higher Access to shroud in zergfights?

this class would be still limited by large casttimes, large cooldowns and small lf regenerating skills.

Take spectral armor, trait it with spectral mastery and you get 10 second of virtual invulnerability in shroud on a 32 second cool down. Add to this spectral walk, locust swarm, traited signet of undeath and you can easily sustain death shroud (which is only 3% drain) with little to no down time if we follow your suggestion. And this is not just "theory" because I played that just fine without what you suggest. With your suggestion the build become totally OP as a bunker. It might even become an issue in PvP with the change proposed.

[Rym.1469]

If burst damage becomes that much of a problem, what if we finally put those empty 6-0 Shroud slots to use?

A new, #6 skill, long cooldown (60s), one or two charges. Temporarily increases Shroud damage reduction by x% (similary to RS#3) , stacking or not. Costs Life Force upfront to activate.

What do we achieve with this? An ability to potentially increase Shroud damage reduction to immunity-like levels, prepairing for incoming burst that would chew through Shroud in seconds. In return, we trade a bit of Life Force that could be used to soak more even damage.

Alternatively, #6 could have no cost, but temporarily increase Shroud damage reduction to decrease it by the same amount for a few seconds shortly after (for those who don't know, both Shrouds have built-in 50% DR against power damage).

[Zero.3871]

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@Zero.3871 said:

@Dadnir.5038 said:In all objectivity, this is a broken OP suggestion, especially for WvW zergling.

i would appreciate if you give me a Scenario that i can follow you, why this would be OP in zergfights :-).

i think its not Op in zergs because:

while necro is in shroud he cant get healed. so if he get pressure and enter his shroud with 20% life he will still have 20% when leaving shroud. so while he is in shroud he dont refresh like other classes when they have invulns up (like warrior, ele, rev).core necro has huge cd (40 sec) on his main aoe dmg skills DS 4 and 5 (and just 600 range). the other skills are not that big deal. so ele and rev would be still better dmg dealer.reaper is only melee class in shroud. and its pirate ship meta. their lifeforce will draine instantly if he try to push while in shroud. cause lifeforce bar cant get healed too. without lifeforce he has to leave shroud and is attackable too until he get LF back. and no one is really complaining About warrior having 14 sec of invuln to solo push 60 man zergs. my Suggestion would still way weaker than warrior invulns in zergfights. so if Warriors are fine reaper should also be fine with that.both shrouds Arent stronger than any other classes. so why it should be that OP if necro has higher Access to shroud in zergfights?

this class would be still limited by large casttimes, large cooldowns and small lf regenerating skills.

Take spectral armor, trait it with spectral mastery and you get 10 second of virtual invulnerability in shroud on a 32 second cool down. Add to this spectral walk, locust swarm, traited signet of undeath and you can easily sustain death shroud (which is only 3% drain) with little to no down time if we follow your suggestion. And this is not just "theory" because I played that just fine without what you suggest. With your suggestion the build become totally OP as a bunker. It might even become an issue in PvP with the change proposed.

thx for the advise.but i think since core class has no Access to stability a simple cc chain could already kill him ez. and classes like FB or apothecary druid, Minstrel chrono would still be way harder to kill...( dont know which stats combs also in pvp exist). i just want to say, how many core necros do you see atm? nearly Nothing in every gamemode.

you could also increase the drain for core to 5 % while implementing that. i mean, core cant get worse, so why not giving it a shot?...