Early look at the new meta

[Feanor.2358]

So, early meta is "ele is out". 29k small and 34k huge for this gameplay is pointless.

[Sephylon.4938]

Welcome to pve necro land, hope you enjoy your stay

[Feanor.2358]

@Sephylon.4938 said:Welcome to necro land, hope you enjoy your stay

Except necros are actually still used. Ironically, for epi.

[Sephylon.4938]

And eles will still be used on large hitboxes or sword builds

[maddoctor.2738]

@Sephylon.4938 said:Welcome to necro land, hope you enjoy your stay

I wish Elementalist was now meta in WVW, PVP and can play any expansion/LS story instance while semi-asleep. There was a single thing that Elementalists were good at: high dps on stationary Raid/Fractal targets. Now that's gone. And can't even use the profession anywhere else.

[Imperadordf.2687]

@Sephylon.4938 said:And eles will still be used on large hitboxes or sword builds

I doubt it. There are many builds with same or higher DPS but much less effort.

[Sephylon.4938]

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@"Sephylon.4938" said:Welcome to necro land, hope you enjoy your stay

I wish Elementalist was now meta in WVW, PVP and can play any expansion/LS story instance while semi-asleep. There was a single thing that Elementalists were good at: high dps on stationary Raid/Fractal targets. Now that's gone. And can't even use the profession anywhere else.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vFAQFAWnMIC9Mgt4CWNA0RgFBA7eVXrz1BBgCQRU4SGCSBA-eTry that build for story, summon 2 earth eles and just 1 spam from range while elementals facetank for you, should fall asleep before the 1/2 way mark even in full zerk

[Sephylon.4938]

@Imperadordf.2687 said:

@Sephylon.4938 said:And eles will still be used on large hitboxes or sword builds

I doubt it. There are many builds with same or higher DPS but much less effort.

Other than dhuum cm, those boses are just gonna melt anyway, won't make much of a difference which class you bring.

[maddoctor.2738]

@Sephylon.4938 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Sephylon.4938 said:Welcome to necro land, hope you enjoy your stay

I wish Elementalist was now meta in WVW, PVP and can play any expansion/LS story instance while semi-asleep. There was a single thing that Elementalists were good at: high dps on stationary Raid/Fractal targets. Now that's gone. And can't even use the profession anywhere else.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vFAQFAWnMIC9Mgt4CWNA0RgFBA7eVXrz1BBgCQRU4SGCSBA-e

Try that build for story, summon 2 earth eles and just 1 spam from range while elementals facetank for you, should fall asleep before the 1/2 way mark even in full zerk

Or play the pure DPS build of every other profession without worry and have fun bursting the bosses down -while half asleep. I've done episode 3 so far on Scourge, Holosmith, Soulbeast, Renegade, Dragonhunter and Weaver. Guess for which one (and only one) I didn't use the meta DPS build? Only for Weaver I made some changes, for every other one I used the full DPS Raid builds and guess what, it was even easier/faceroll than the changed Weaver build. The difference in solo performance between every other profession and Weaver is insane.I did all my "tests" before the 2 recent balance patches, it should be much worse now for Weaver (and even easier for the others)

[Sephylon.4938]

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Sephylon.4938 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Sephylon.4938 said:Welcome to necro land, hope you enjoy your stay

I wish Elementalist was now meta in WVW, PVP and can play any expansion/LS story instance while semi-asleep. There was a single thing that Elementalists were good at: high dps on stationary Raid/Fractal targets. Now that's gone. And can't even use the profession anywhere else.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vFAQFAWnMIC9Mgt4CWNA0RgFBA7eVXrz1BBgCQRU4SGCSBA-e

Try that build for story, summon 2 earth eles and just 1 spam from range while elementals facetank for you, should fall asleep before the 1/2 way mark even in full zerk

Or play the pure DPS build of every other profession without worry and have fun bursting the bosses down -while half asleep. I've done episode 3 so far on Scourge, Holosmith, Soulbeast, Renegade, Dragonhunter and Weaver. Guess for which one (and only one) I didn't use the meta DPS build? Only for Weaver I made some changes, for every other one I used the full DPS Raid builds and guess what, it was even easier/faceroll than the changed Weaver build. The difference in solo performance between every other profession and Weaver is insane.I did all my "tests" before the 2 recent balance patches, it should be much worse now for Weaver (and even easier for the others)

I don't get it, was the point to have a build that you could fall half asleep on, or to play the meta build for raids in open world story?

[Feanor.2358]

@Sephylon.4938 said:

@Imperadordf.2687 said:

@Sephylon.4938 said:And eles will still be used on large hitboxes or sword builds

I doubt it. There are many builds with same or higher DPS but much less effort.

Other than dhuum cm, those boses are just gonna melt anyway, won't make much of a difference which class you bring.

And yet I don't see many power heralds used. Apparently it does matter after all.

[maddoctor.2738]

@Sephylon.4938 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Sephylon.4938 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Sephylon.4938 said:Welcome to necro land, hope you enjoy your stay

I wish Elementalist was now meta in WVW, PVP and can play any expansion/LS story instance while semi-asleep. There was a single thing that Elementalists were good at: high dps on stationary Raid/Fractal targets. Now that's gone. And can't even use the profession anywhere else.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vFAQFAWnMIC9Mgt4CWNA0RgFBA7eVXrz1BBgCQRU4SGCSBA-e

Try that build for story, summon 2 earth eles and just 1 spam from range while elementals facetank for you, should fall asleep before the 1/2 way mark even in full zerk

Or play the pure DPS build of every other profession without worry and have fun bursting the bosses down -while half asleep. I've done episode 3 so far on Scourge, Holosmith, Soulbeast, Renegade, Dragonhunter and Weaver. Guess for which one (and only one) I didn't use the meta DPS build? Only for Weaver I made some changes, for every other one I used the full DPS Raid builds and guess what, it was even easier/faceroll than the changed Weaver build. The difference in solo performance between every other profession and Weaver is insane.I did all my "tests" before the 2 recent balance patches, it should be much worse now for Weaver (and even easier for the others)

I don't get it, was the point to have a build that you could fall half asleep on, or to play the meta build for raids in open world story?

I can play the story instances as any other profession, using the meta dps build, while half asleep :)I can't play Weaver while using the meta dps build AND at the same being half-asleep. I will probably have to make changes to the build in the first place, or use the many elementals approach and fall asleep from boredom this time. I'm comparing how ridiculously easy it is to fight even the latest story instance bosses on any other profession, except for Weaver (and Thief or Mesmer - haven't tried Episode 3 with those sorry) Weaver has always been much harder to play in story instances, and at the same time much slower, because you have to make changes to even survive. Now it's even worse. And that's only a tiny part of my post, because in WVW and PVP Scourge is meta and has been meta since it was released, meanwhile Weaver has been forever an afterthought in both of those modes.So saying "welcome to necro land" is silly. Maybe Weaver will have the same DPS as Scourge and will have trouble being accepted into Raids (I doubt it but maybe) at the same time Scourge is amazing in every other aspect of the game, while Weaver is crap in every other aspect of the game.

[Sephylon.4938]

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Sephylon.4938 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Sephylon.4938 said:

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Sephylon.4938 said:Welcome to necro land, hope you enjoy your stay

I wish Elementalist was now meta in WVW, PVP and can play any expansion/LS story instance while semi-asleep. There was a single thing that Elementalists were good at: high dps on stationary Raid/Fractal targets. Now that's gone. And can't even use the profession anywhere else.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vFAQFAWnMIC9Mgt4CWNA0RgFBA7eVXrz1BBgCQRU4SGCSBA-e

Try that build for story, summon 2 earth eles and just 1 spam from range while elementals facetank for you, should fall asleep before the 1/2 way mark even in full zerk

Or play the pure DPS build of every other profession without worry and have fun bursting the bosses down -while half asleep. I've done episode 3 so far on Scourge, Holosmith, Soulbeast, Renegade, Dragonhunter and Weaver. Guess for which one (and only one) I didn't use the meta DPS build? Only for Weaver I made some changes, for every other one I used the full DPS Raid builds and guess what, it was even easier/faceroll than the changed Weaver build. The difference in solo performance between every other profession and Weaver is insane.I did all my "tests" before the 2 recent balance patches, it should be much worse now for Weaver (and even easier for the others)

I don't get it, was the point to have a build that you could fall half asleep on, or to play the meta build for raids in open world story?

I can play the story instances as any other profession, using the meta dps build, while half asleep :)I can't play Weaver while using the meta dps build AND at the same being half-asleep. I will probably have to make changes to the build in the first place, or use the many elementals approach and fall asleep from boredom this time. I'm comparing how ridiculously easy it is to fight even the latest story instance bosses on any other profession, except for Weaver (and Thief or Mesmer - haven't tried Episode 3 with those sorry) Weaver has always been much harder to play in story instances, and at the same time much slower, because you have to make changes to even survive. Now it's even worse. And that's only a tiny part of my post, because in WVW and PVP Scourge is meta and has been meta since it was released, meanwhile Weaver has been forever an afterthought in both of those modes.So saying "welcome to necro land" is silly. Maybe Weaver will have the same DPS as Scourge and will have trouble being accepted into Raids (I doubt it but maybe) at the same time Scourge is amazing in every other aspect of the game, while Weaver is crap in every other aspect of the game.

I've never used a meta build as is in any story instances, I've always changed them up, swapping a single trait or a whole trait line depending on the class, so I didn't see why doing so would be an issue for ele, or any class. As for the comment, that was leaning more towards pve, I don't pvp (I've been bored of conquest since hot, still am, don't find it fun), and only wvw to do easy dalies. Would it have been better then if I said pve necro land?

[maxwelgm.4315]

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Sephylon.4938 said:

@Imperadordf.2687 said:

@Sephylon.4938 said:And eles will still be used on large hitboxes or sword builds

I doubt it. There are many builds with same or higher DPS but much less effort.

Other than dhuum cm, those boses are just gonna melt anyway, won't make much of a difference which class you bring.

And yet I don't see many power heralds used. Apparently it does matter after all.

While it's true not many are used and classes do matter, power herald is unironically more worth the time than ele now since the rotation is simple enough to perform with pugs, does not suffer as much from things such as boss movement, hitbox size, etc. It is as "bad" as 30k if you don't use the UI bug yet is so versatile that it does warrant that lower spot. I actually hope that guild groups and Toxic Elitists now start opening their own squads to more builds since everything is so close in damage anyway.

One thing about the balance now is that world record speed runs should be adjusted by patch instead of having global value. I'd say getting the same time on most bosses that groups used to get before is now going to be worth actually more than the actual, previous records.

[Belorn.2659]

A new patch, a new meta. Current bets is on the DE rifle to get the crown but it is a bit too similar to the older DD version when it had potential to be top dps. A few brave souls did that for sab, cairn and mo (See the theme?) and made some impressive runs, but I never saw it catch on regularly as meta for any of the statics, sell or pug groups (except for maybe a one-off for MO, since it saved time).

A big question is if weaver can still be used in KC and ranged deimos. time will tell.

[Mini Crinny.6190]

@Belorn.2659 said:A new patch, a new meta. Current bets is on the DE rifle to get the crown but it is a bit too similar to the older DD version when it had potential to be top dps. A few brave souls did that for sab, cairn and mo (See the theme?) and made some impressive runs, but I never saw it catch on regularly as meta for any of the statics, sell or pug groups (except for maybe a one-off for MO, since it saved time).

A big question is if weaver can still be used in KC and ranged deimos. time will tell.

probably good for KC but thats about it

[Voltekka.2375]

@"Feanor.2358" said:So, early meta is "ele is out". 29k small and 34k huge for this gameplay is pointless.

Dont worry, Feanor. Weaver is out of the wvw scene,as well. It hits like a wet noodle, now. Meh. Back to braindead scourge, I guess.

[Cyninja.2954]

@Voltekka.2375 said:

@"Feanor.2358" said:So, early meta is "ele is out". 29k small and 34k huge for this gameplay is pointless.

Dont worry, Feanor. Weaver is out of the wvw scene,as well. It hits like a wet noodle, now. Meh. Back to braindead scourge, I guess.

Without wanting to hate on Weaver and having hoped that Arenanet would make some adjustments after fixing Meteor Shower so that Weaver remains valid I have to say: not sorry for the WvW fix. Meteor Shower was op as kitten in its bugged state (in WvW). :/

[Voltekka.2375]

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Voltekka.2375 said:

@"Feanor.2358" said:So, early meta is "ele is out". 29k small and 34k huge for this gameplay is pointless.

Dont worry, Feanor. Weaver is out of the wvw scene,as well. It hits like a wet noodle, now. Meh. Back to braindead scourge, I guess.

Without wanting to hate on Weaver and having hoped that Arenanet would make some adjustments after fixing Meteor Shower so that Weaver remains valid I have to say: not sorry for the WvW fix. Meteor Shower was op as kitten in its bugged state (in WvW). :/

Lava font is also dead. Thats what actually killed the weaver. No pressure whatsoever now, people will just power through ele ranged bombs. Laughable.

[Feanor.2358]

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Voltekka.2375 said:

@"Feanor.2358" said:So, early meta is "ele is out". 29k small and 34k huge for this gameplay is pointless.

Dont worry, Feanor. Weaver is out of the wvw scene,as well. It hits like a wet noodle, now. Meh. Back to braindead scourge, I guess.

Without wanting to hate on Weaver and having hoped that Arenanet would make some adjustments after fixing Meteor Shower so that Weaver remains valid I have to say: not sorry for the WvW fix. Meteor Shower was op as kitten in its bugged state (in WvW). :/

To be fair, I've seen feedback on both sides of the coin. Sure, a lot of people complained about it (and with actual reason), but there were also some who liked the change. One Sunday morning I chatted for a bit with a thief (I think it was thief) that I nuked with MS. Essentially he said "cool, this is what MS should be like - a zone of death that you either gtfo or die in".

Now, I'm not saying it should all be just this one skill. But I agree with the overall notion - this is what staff ele should play like. Instead, you get a bunch of mediocre aoes the enemy barely notices. Aside from MS, their area coverage is tiny and their impact (MS included, now) - negligible.

[Cyninja.2954]

@Voltekka.2375 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Voltekka.2375 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:So, early meta is "ele is out". 29k small and 34k huge for this gameplay is pointless.

Dont worry, Feanor. Weaver is out of the wvw scene,as well. It hits like a wet noodle, now. Meh. Back to braindead scourge, I guess.

Without wanting to hate on Weaver and having hoped that Arenanet would make some adjustments after fixing Meteor Shower so that Weaver remains valid I have to say: not sorry for the WvW fix. Meteor Shower was op as kitten in its bugged state (in WvW). :/

Lava font is also dead. Thats what actually killed the weaver. No pressure whatsoever now, people will just power through ele ranged bombs. Laughable.

Not sure why they decided to nerf Lava font. Never thought it was op and damage was fine in all game modes. If you stood in a Lava font the entire duration (aoe size was not that huge) you kinda deserved to die in competitive modes.

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Voltekka.2375 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:So, early meta is "ele is out". 29k small and 34k huge for this gameplay is pointless.

Dont worry, Feanor. Weaver is out of the wvw scene,as well. It hits like a wet noodle, now. Meh. Back to braindead scourge, I guess.

Without wanting to hate on Weaver and having hoped that Arenanet would make some adjustments after fixing Meteor Shower so that Weaver remains valid I have to say: not sorry for the WvW fix. Meteor Shower was op as kitten in its bugged state (in WvW). :/

To be fair, I've seen feedback on both sides of the coin. Sure, a lot of people complained about it (and with actual reason), but there were also some who liked the change. One Sunday morning I chatted for a bit with a thief (I think it was thief) that I nuked with MS. Essentially he said "cool, this is what MS should be like - a zone of death that you either gtfo or die in".

Now, I'm not saying it should all be just this one skill. But I agree with the overall notion - this is what staff ele should play like. Instead, you get a bunch of mediocre aoes the enemy barely notices. Aside from MS, their area coverage is tiny and their impact (MS included, now) - negligible.

That works in a 1v1 or small scale skirmish situation. The moment you have 5-10 elementalists burn an entire zerg with instant kills on toughness maxed players the fun ends though. Main problem: it simply was not fun to play against.

Now one can argue that positioning becomes way more important and people should know better where to stand before attacks are actually cast (edges of keeps etc.), it still was a skill which would 1 shot enemy back line as well as 2-3 shot max toughness frontline (from 1 Elementalist alone, not even counting multiple). That's just to much imo.

Strictly WvW speaking. PvE wise I was expecting them to re-balance accordingly which they seem to have missed.

[Raizel.8175]

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Voltekka.2375 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:So, early meta is "ele is out". 29k small and 34k huge for this gameplay is pointless.

Dont worry, Feanor. Weaver is out of the wvw scene,as well. It hits like a wet noodle, now. Meh. Back to braindead scourge, I guess.

Without wanting to hate on Weaver and having hoped that Arenanet would make some adjustments after fixing Meteor Shower so that Weaver remains valid I have to say: not sorry for the WvW fix. Meteor Shower was op as kitten in its bugged state (in WvW). :/

To be fair, I've seen feedback on both sides of the coin. Sure, a lot of people complained about it (and with actual reason), but there were also some who liked the change. One Sunday morning I chatted for a bit with a thief (I think it was thief) that I nuked with MS. Essentially he said "cool, this is what MS should be like - a zone of death that you either gtfo or die in".

Now, I'm not saying it should all be just this one skill. But I agree with the overall notion - this is what staff ele should play like. Instead, you get a bunch of mediocre aoes the enemy barely notices. Aside from MS, their area coverage is tiny and their impact (MS included, now) - negligible.

"Cool, this is what a Sand-Shade should be like - a necrotic field of deadly doom and darkness!" :D

[Feanor.2358]

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Voltekka.2375 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Voltekka.2375 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:So, early meta is "ele is out". 29k small and 34k huge for this gameplay is pointless.

Dont worry, Feanor. Weaver is out of the wvw scene,as well. It hits like a wet noodle, now. Meh. Back to braindead scourge, I guess.

Without wanting to hate on Weaver and having hoped that Arenanet would make some adjustments after fixing Meteor Shower so that Weaver remains valid I have to say: not sorry for the WvW fix. Meteor Shower was op as kitten in its bugged state (in WvW). :/

Lava font is also dead. Thats what actually killed the weaver. No pressure whatsoever now, people will just power through ele ranged bombs. Laughable.

Not sure why they decided to nerf Lava font. Never thought it was op and damage was fine in all game modes. If you stood in a Lava font the entire duration (aoe size was not that huge) you kinda deserved to die in competitive modes.

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Voltekka.2375 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:So, early meta is "ele is out". 29k small and 34k huge for this gameplay is pointless.

Dont worry, Feanor. Weaver is out of the wvw scene,as well. It hits like a wet noodle, now. Meh. Back to braindead scourge, I guess.

Without wanting to hate on Weaver and having hoped that Arenanet would make some adjustments after fixing Meteor Shower so that Weaver remains valid I have to say: not sorry for the WvW fix. Meteor Shower was op as kitten in its bugged state (in WvW). :/

To be fair, I've seen feedback on both sides of the coin. Sure, a lot of people complained about it (and with actual reason), but there were also some who liked the change. One Sunday morning I chatted for a bit with a thief (I think it was thief) that I nuked with MS. Essentially he said "cool, this is what MS should be like - a zone of death that you either gtfo or die in".

Now, I'm not saying it should all be just this one skill. But I agree with the overall notion - this is what staff ele should play like. Instead, you get a bunch of mediocre aoes the enemy barely notices. Aside from MS, their area coverage is tiny and their impact (MS included, now) - negligible.

That works in a 1v1 or small scale skirmish situation. The moment you have 5-10 elementalists burn an entire zerg with instant kills on toughness maxed players the fun ends though. Main problem: it simply was not fun to play against.

Now one can argue that positioning becomes way more important and people should know better where to stand before attacks are actually cast (edges of keeps etc.), it still was a skill which would 1 shot enemy back line as well as 2-3 shot max toughness frontline (from 1 Elementalist alone, not even counting multiple). That's just to much imo.

Strictly WvW speaking. PvE wise I was expecting them to re-balance accordingly which they seem to have missed.

Ummm... I fail to see the difference with the Scourge-stacking meta. Those Sand Shades do and have done exactly the same for months. Indeed, it's not fun. Indeed, there's a problem. Yet the scourge is still meta and eles are useless now.

[Cyninja.2954]

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Voltekka.2375 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Voltekka.2375 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:So, early meta is "ele is out". 29k small and 34k huge for this gameplay is pointless.

Dont worry, Feanor. Weaver is out of the wvw scene,as well. It hits like a wet noodle, now. Meh. Back to braindead scourge, I guess.

Without wanting to hate on Weaver and having hoped that Arenanet would make some adjustments after fixing Meteor Shower so that Weaver remains valid I have to say: not sorry for the WvW fix. Meteor Shower was op as kitten in its bugged state (in WvW). :/

Lava font is also dead. Thats what actually killed the weaver. No pressure whatsoever now, people will just power through ele ranged bombs. Laughable.

Not sure why they decided to nerf Lava font. Never thought it was op and damage was fine in all game modes. If you stood in a Lava font the entire duration (aoe size was not that huge) you kinda deserved to die in competitive modes.

@Feanor.2358 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Voltekka.2375 said:

@Feanor.2358 said:So, early meta is "ele is out". 29k small and 34k huge for this gameplay is pointless.

Dont worry, Feanor. Weaver is out of the wvw scene,as well. It hits like a wet noodle, now. Meh. Back to braindead scourge, I guess.

Without wanting to hate on Weaver and having hoped that Arenanet would make some adjustments after fixing Meteor Shower so that Weaver remains valid I have to say: not sorry for the WvW fix. Meteor Shower was op as kitten in its bugged state (in WvW). :/

To be fair, I've seen feedback on both sides of the coin. Sure, a lot of people complained about it (and with actual reason), but there were also some who liked the change. One Sunday morning I chatted for a bit with a thief (I think it was thief) that I nuked with MS. Essentially he said "cool, this is what MS should be like - a zone of death that you either gtfo or die in".

Now, I'm not saying it should all be just this one skill. But I agree with the overall notion - this is what staff ele should play like. Instead, you get a bunch of mediocre aoes the enemy barely notices. Aside from MS, their area coverage is tiny and their impact (MS included, now) - negligible.

That works in a 1v1 or small scale skirmish situation. The moment you have 5-10 elementalists burn an entire zerg with instant kills on toughness maxed players the fun ends though. Main problem: it simply was not fun to play against.

Now one can argue that positioning becomes way more important and people should know better where to stand before attacks are actually cast (edges of keeps etc.), it still was a skill which would 1 shot enemy back line as well as 2-3 shot max toughness frontline (from 1 Elementalist alone, not even counting multiple). That's just to much imo.

Strictly WvW speaking. PvE wise I was expecting them to re-balance accordingly which they seem to have missed.

Ummm... I fail to see the difference with the Scourge-stacking meta. Those Sand Shades do and have done

exactly

the same for months. Indeed, it's not fun. Indeed, there's a problem. Yet the scourge is still meta and eles are useless now.

Sand Shades were an issue but you actually have time to dodge the shade and the conditions applied take a while to damage (if you do not have resistance which completely negates condi and good melee trains will have this boon in WvW).

Now add in the fact that Shade is 900 range with 180 radius versus ms with 1200 range and 360 radius and you get even more benefits stacked towards elementalist.

At some point all the minor benefits add up to a skill just being that much better.

[Feanor.2358]

Dunno, I've been nuked by sand shades quite often. Sure, the range is there, but MS hits are RNG while shade's aren't. There's the resistance, but there's the dodge and invuln (which for the months past didn't stop the condis from killing you). Again, not saying MS was fine. But I don't think the difference is that dramatic. Maybe people are more used to countering condi nukes, dunno. From my own PoV nothing really changed, except I had to dodge more out of meteors rather than shades and there were more eles around than before. But that's past anyway and I'm back to being kicked out of the squad to make space for an actually useful class.