Jump to content
  • Sign Up

Why do you vote against duoq in plat 2 as silver player?


Recommended Posts

@"Etheri.5406" said:

I don't mind clueless players. That's perfectly fine.

I'm sorry but the tons of "I played WvW for the first time this week and it was great but here's how you need to change it to make it better !!!" are absolute garbage.All the "I have great ideas on how to improve the game !!!" yet as soon as you ask 2 mindful questions you notice the entire system falls appart... Right; garbage.

If you barely understand how the game works, you're not in a position to drastically improve it. There's nothing wrong with new / bad players playing the game. There is a lot wrong if the feedback of these players is dominating all other feedback to the point where adequate feedback is nearly impossible. If you can't tell the difference, then we drastically need more elitism in this game.

@"Kako.1930" there are several fair conclusions you can draw from this thread; and you haven't contributed to any of them. You've just spammed about "your discussion has a lack of scientific data and all points here are moot!" while not providing any arguments, counter arguments or even a consistent reasoning showing your own point of view. Frankly, just more spam to sift through which hasn't adressed a single issue here.

Because someone is new doesn't mean his opinion is not useful or garbage. A new players perspective and experience can give a feedback which would be useful if the game mode wants more new players.

Just because you have more experience doesn't mean someone who is new cannot show you something that would make your experience better.

Again....Instead of name calling you should tell them why their idea is not good or how it could be improved and not just say that they are irrelevant and should shut up because only the big boys matter.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 82
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

@Etheri5406

Pointing out the fallacies of the argument isn't pointless, but I'll play your game, since you seem to be escalating a bit for some reason.

Valid points that support the OP:

  1. Some top players have said they would return in duoq returns
  2. The results of the forum poll are not accurate of what exclusively high-ranked pvpers think, and could include the opinions of players who either don't PvP or are lower ranked

Valid points that oppose the OP:

  1. It's possible that some players who are in the affected rank actually did vote against duoq.
  2. It's possible that a duoq of 2 platinum players could still be put against gold and silver soloq players.

Most of what has been posted has been opinionated garbage essentially, so finding valid points on either side of the argument is hard. This is all I could find.

My advice would be to not get so worked up about it, though. If Anet really cared what only high ranked players thought, they would find a way to make their own high-ranked-only poll.

Link to post
Share on other sites

tbh, it is stupid to not have a duoQ back, but to answer your question:

Imagine you have 2 players (A and B )Player A is low silver rated playerPlayer B is high plat rated player

Player B goes duoQ with a friend who is in low-mid silver, they get a match and they are facing a team which player A is a member of. (cuz matchmaking and rate tanking with lower rated player)Now player A has to play against much more skilled player than he is and thus this is making his experience in ranked not so good.

I know that this should be adressed by matchmaking, but still this problem could occure, so saying that it would not affect lower rated players is kinda ignorant.

imo if you que as silver with someone from plat, both of you should get into matchmaking based on the higher rated player in the group, since you are willingly duo queing with higher rated player.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@Solidaris.5423 said:

@"Etheri.5406" said:

I don't mind clueless players. That's perfectly fine.

I'm sorry but the tons of "I played WvW for the first time this week and it was great but here's how you need to change it to make it better !!!" are absolute garbage.All the "I have great ideas on how to improve the game !!!" yet as soon as you ask 2 mindful questions you notice the entire system falls appart... Right; garbage.

If you barely understand how the game works, you're not in a position to drastically improve it. There's nothing wrong with new / bad players playing the game. There is a lot wrong if the feedback of these players is dominating all other feedback to the point where adequate feedback is nearly impossible. If you can't tell the difference, then we drastically need more elitism in this game.

@"Kako.1930" there are several fair conclusions you can draw from this thread; and you haven't contributed to any of them. You've just spammed about "your discussion has a lack of scientific data and all points here are moot!" while not providing any arguments, counter arguments or even a consistent reasoning showing your own point of view. Frankly, just more spam to sift through which hasn't adressed a single issue here.

Because someone is new doesn't mean his opinion is not useful or garbage. A new players perspective and experience can give a feedback which would be useful if the game mode wants more new players.

Just because you have more experience doesn't mean someone who is new cannot show you something that would make your experience better.

Again....Instead of name calling you should tell them why their idea is not good or how it could be improved and not just say that they are irrelevant and should shut up because only the big boys matter.

Which requires insight into the system which they regularly do not have.

Let's take some examples. Anet nerfs loot at the start of HoT to rebalance it. The players cry out angrily; anet tho shall not nerf our loot! They then demand more replayability and rewards for their "difficult content". Short term great - more loot YAY.

Except now the value of all that loot has dropped so low you end up grinding longer to get the same items. "Yeah but the items are cheaper". Yeah everything you sell is cheaper too. And gems aren't cheaper. Skins aren't much cheaper. Dyes aren't cheaper. Fixed gold costs like your griffon? Still not cheaper.

And the money you gain from playing the game as you wish? Yeah; that's going down. Because the money you gain from hard-farms like istan and SW? That goes up.

But hey, the community wanted more instant loots and more maps like istan and multiloot. And the community didn't like the economist or anything he did.

And slowly, very slowly but surely those players will be the very ones who get fucked over. I don't lack money; I don't even know what to spend my money on... 3rd and 4th legendary armor sets or 320 inventory slots? I mean both are kinda useless because I have infinite ascended gear and perma bank access anyways... :trollface: You know who gets fucked? Anyone playing core maps instead of SW and istan. Anyone playing HoT maps instead of SW and istan. Anyone who still needs gems for character slots or bag slots or fashion or anything else. The grind required for them to get these items has drastically increased. Casuals who run around, explore and farm materials. Well, cya income. And the effect? The maps which are high in reward are played a lot; the maps which are low in rewards are played far far less and the overal enjoyment for everyone goes down as the game becomes more grindy - not because more or less rewards (the prices adjust accordingly ANYWAYS) but because they're completely inbalanced between maps / content.

Desert map is an awful map because it has completely inbalanced PPT compared to alpine maps. It has an insanely negative effect on the population and overall balance through PPT in WvW; as it inbalances matchups further and allows servers to end up in matchups where they shouldn't be. But goodluck proving and explaining that when the #1 reddit reactions were "It looks great and i'm happy we got a new visually stunning map!". Yeah that's lovely, too bad it doesn't function.

Nono, it gets even better. Portable cannons and repair hammers; gliding, tactics and other buffs to siege. "Anet please buff siege". At first sight it's amazing for PPT servers. They can finally defend against the attacking zergs; yay! Except where this just ensures you need an even larger zerg to press your advantage and take objectives. The result? Nobody attacks unless the enemy side stands no chance in defending; and rather than leading to more action in WvW the action in WvW overall stagnates while further population inbalance is promoted. Yay for high quality "game design" by the GW2 population.

Come around 2 years later and guess what? "All these problems with population inbalance and anet has to fix them !!!". Yeah holy shit, you literally ASKED for half of them.

Do you know what populism is? The majority of players in GW2 are just that : populists. They vote for what sounds best for them, the average user, without further insight. Great ideas that are easily explained and make sense, except where... they almost never work out. Populism has progressed to a derogatory term because of exactly that. And that's exactly how voting in GW2 works. Players with limited interests and understanding voting for popular ideas without having a clue what they're on about.

So yes; unless they have further insight they should let the big bois talk. By all means, player feedback is useful to some extent. It can help find where problems lie and solutions do need to be found. But listening to the advice on how to manage / design / balance your game from casuals? A pretty crazy idea.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@Blackari.2051 said:tbh, it is stupid to not have a duoQ back, but to answer your question:

Imagine you have 2 players (A and B )Player A is low silver rated playerPlayer B is high plat rated player

Player B goes duoQ with a friend who is in low-mid silver, they get a match and they are facing a team which player A is a member of. (cuz matchmaking and rate tanking with lower rated player)Now player A has to play against much more skilled player than he is and thus this is making his experience in ranked not so good.

I know that this should be adressed by matchmaking, but still this problem could occure, so saying that it would not affect lower rated players is kinda ignorant.

imo if you que as silver with someone from plat, both of you should get into matchmaking based on the higher rated player in the group, since you are willingly duo queing with higher rated player.

This is how it already works. It makes it pretty difficult for the silver player who is teaming with his plat friend, if he really belongs in silver. The only time it's unfair for the other team is 2 plat players team up and the matchmaker has a hard time finding even matches for them, so they get a longer queue and get put against lower ranked people that way.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@Etheri.5406 said:

@"Kako.1930" said:"Look at all the amazing people supporting this amazing opinion for such an amazing cause, while all those evil people support the evil opposing position for their own evil purposes. Clearly, only the good players voted for my opinion, but the poll was swayed by the evil players who are quite obviously of lower tier and whose opinions should not count for anything."

Personally, I don't care either way what they do with the queue system at this point, but listening to the logic behind some of these posts is just making me cringe.

I don't think it's false. It's very clear that the game is predominantly played by a majority of low-skilled casual players. The original wvw and pvp community has left almost entirely. Any polls we've had have been impacted by this.

How do you interpret poll results, if 10% of players play pvp frequently and 90% of players barely play pvp, aren't impacted by the proposed changes directly but still have their own "!!! muh opinions!".

I get your point; OP can claim as they wish in their favor and you can agree or disagree. That doesn't mean it's not true; the vast majority of players "voting" don't know what they're on about and their vote isn't even relevant. But they'll vote to feel relevant regardless.

Which is mostly their loss; because they're generally making the game worse by their own ignorance.

So calling them names and calling them clueless while hissing at them is the best solution to it? Can we please put away that elitist behavior and maybe have a discussion with these "irrelevant players" ? Players come and go and the community should adapt. But instead of adapting most of them don't like newcomers because "THEY ARE RUINING MAH GAMEMODE WITH BEING CLUELESS AND NOT GETTING ANY HELP BY A MORE EXPERIENCED PLAYER!"

I don't mind clueless players. That's perfectly fine.

I'm sorry but the tons of "I played WvW for the first time this week and it was great but here's how you need to change it to make it better !!!" are absolute garbage.All the "I have great ideas on how to improve the game !!!" yet as soon as you ask 2 mindful questions you notice the entire system falls appart... Right; garbage.

If you barely understand how the game works, you're not in a position to drastically improve it. There's nothing wrong with new / bad players playing the game. There is a lot wrong if the feedback of these players is dominating all other feedback to the point where adequate feedback is nearly impossible. If you can't tell the difference, then we drastically need more elitism in this game.

@"Kako.1930" there are several fair conclusions you can draw from this thread; and you haven't contributed to any of them. You've just spammed about "your discussion has a lack of scientific data and all points here are moot!" while not providing any arguments, counter arguments or even a consistent reasoning showing your own point of view. Frankly, just more spam to sift through which hasn't adressed a single issue here.

Wow I love this comment and all your others as well basically.You very well explained the situation and state in a good way not only for pvp but for the game in general. Thanks for that, you actually have good and helpful arguments.

@"Virelion.4128" said:I am plat and voted against duo. I dont know what is your proof for "most" plat players. Did you asked your 2 friends?

I said I asked hundreds of players, if you and your 2 friends (who are against it) didn’t happen to be asked because I‘ve never seen you before (EU btw) then I‘m sorry.> @Blackari.2051 said:

tbh, it is stupid to not have a duoQ back, but to answer your question:

Imagine you have 2 players (A and B )Player A is low silver rated playerPlayer B is high plat rated player

Player B goes duoQ with a friend who is in low-mid silver, they get a match and they are facing a team which player A is a member of. (cuz matchmaking and rate tanking with lower rated player)Now player A has to play against much more skilled player than he is and thus this is making his experience in ranked not so good.

I know that this should be adressed by matchmaking, but still this problem could occure, so saying that it would not affect lower rated players is kinda ignorant.

imo if you que as silver with someone from plat, both of you should get into matchmaking based on the higher rated player in the group, since you are willingly duo queing with higher rated player.

That’s not true (I think) as far as I know it then uses the mmr of the higher rated player so the lower rated player gets in a game with higher rated ones. If not then this would be the solution.Also this can happen already lol? I mean what stops a bronze player from teaming up with a plat 1 player it would be just as unfair as for other division so then remove duoq once and for all or finally bring it back but wt*f is this

Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow I love this comment and all your others as well basically.You very well explained the situation and state in a good way not only for pvp but for the game in general. Thanks for that, you actually have good and helpful arguments.

thanks.

@"Virelion.4128" said:I am plat and voted against duo. I dont know what is your proof for "most" plat players. Did you asked your 2 friends?

I said I asked hundreds of players, if you and your 2 friends (who are against it) didn’t happen to be asked because I‘ve never seen you before (EU btw) then I‘m sorry.>

I have 1 accounts above 1600 in EU right now; you never asked me. The other account... accidently might have lost games down to 1500 so I can duo with friends. I do think that for the competitiveness of the leaderboard; NOT having duo is beneficial. I seen the effect of high-end duoQ in NA. If you have 2 top 10 players duoq'ing, the game doesn't have any 2 players to match with that - anywhere, ever. So it just gives them 3 complete scrubs against 5 half-decent players; and in the end there's maybe 5 players playing the game and 5 players being farmed like crazy. Not exactly what I consider a "high quality game".

At the same time... I'm seeing plenty of "ruthless" and "unyielding" legends sub 1600 just meming on random builds. And that is by all means their right; I am doing it too. Queues at 1550 are 2-3 minutes faster than those at 1650+ i'd say. It lets me duo and play whatever I like. But I don't think it's healthy for overall game, as many players do intentionally tank around 1600 (mostly by playing meme builds they either can't play or that don't work, occasionally by afk / trolling).

Which is great and all, but it doesn't really promote the competitive atmosphere... outside the top 250. In fact it makes it drastically worse.

@Blackari.2051 said:

tbh, it is stupid to not have a duoQ back, but to answer your question:

Imagine you have 2 players (A and B )Player A is low silver rated playerPlayer B is high plat rated player

Player B goes duoQ with a friend who is in low-mid silver, they get a match and they are facing a team which player A is a member of. (cuz matchmaking and rate tanking with lower rated player)Now player A has to play against much more skilled player than he is and thus this is making his experience in ranked not so good.

I know that this should be adressed by matchmaking, but still this problem could occure, so saying that it would not affect lower rated players is kinda ignorant.

imo if you que as silver with someone from plat, both of you should get into matchmaking based on the higher rated player in the group, since you are willingly duo queing with higher rated player.

That’s not true (I think) as far as I know it then uses the mmr of the higher rated player so the lower rated player gets in a game with higher rated ones. If not then this would be the solution.Also this can happen already lol? I mean what stops a bronze player from teaming up with a plat 1 player it would be just as unfair as for other division so then remove duoq once and for all or finally bring it back but wt*f is this

This is also not true anymore, I think. It was true when anet was trying to make the full-casual friendly S1-S4 leaderboards; but in due time they realised that it was ABSOLUTELY FLAWED. Thank god for that.

I think nowadays duo uses your average rating, increased by a (fixed?) amount for being duo. Say you're 1400 and 1600 rating; then it'll use those rating numbers and your game will be around 1500. I think -this is how glicko generally works and something anet also does with class stacking- that the rating is increased by a small amount for being duo. So your average rating would be maybe 1530. The fixed amount that is added is usually normalized to achieve 50% winrate between duo's and solo players, to account for the communication between both players.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@Azrielvon.7836 said:I believe Anet have the numbers on their side, not your opinions but whether the removal of DuoQ is beneficial to the community as a whole or not. If it favours only a small pool of players, it probably isn't the best idea.

Tell me what reasoning is behind your idea that implementing a proposition that benefits only a small pool of players is bad. Then implementing a dodge key in this game is also bad, cuz the majority of ppl in PvP don't even use it.

The OP is right. Most people who vote don't have any knowledge of PvP, nor are they affected by the thing they vote for.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@HeadCrowned.6834 said:

@Azrielvon.7836 said:I believe Anet have the numbers on their side, not your opinions but whether the removal of DuoQ is beneficial to the community as a whole or not. If it favours only a small pool of players, it probably isn't the best idea.

Tell me what reasoning is behind your idea that implementing a proposition that benefits only a small pool of players is bad. Then implementing a dodge key in this game is also bad, cuz the majority of ppl in PvP don't even use it.

The OP is right. Most people who vote don't have any knowledge of PvP, nor are they affected by the thing they vote for.

Simply because it only benefits a small pool of players? You balance a game only for your few friends? LOL. The PVP community is made out of more than 'top players' :)

Nice strawman btw

Link to post
Share on other sites

@Azrielvon.7836 said:

@Azrielvon.7836 said:I believe Anet have the numbers on their side, not your opinions but whether the removal of DuoQ is beneficial to the community as a whole or not. If it favours only a small pool of players, it probably isn't the best idea.

Tell me what reasoning is behind your idea that implementing a proposition that benefits only a small pool of players is bad. Then implementing a dodge key in this game is also bad, cuz the majority of ppl in PvP don't even use it.

The OP is right. Most people who vote don't have any knowledge of PvP, nor are they affected by the thing they vote for.

Simply because it only benefits a small pool of players? You balance a game only for your few friends? LOL

-deleted, wrong post-

Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't tell me I missed the poll to bring back duo and team queue :scream:

Also completely agree with OP: Same thing with team queue, why put the poll out to all the PvE players, of course they were going to vote to remove their competition to give themselves an easier experience.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@Nash.3974 said:The recent poll just amazed me how many people who aren’t affected by anything voted against what the majority of the affected people want.To be more specific: it’s a fact that the majority of the plat 2+ players want duoq back. Then why do polls not always show this is a result?Because also people who aren’t affected by that get to vote and somehow most of them like to vote no.I‘m wondering about why do you vote for something you have no clue about/ you aren’t affected by?How did anyone think making a poll where everyone can vote even though they may have no knowledge about what really is best/good for a specific audience is solving a problem or is smart at all?What do you gain from voting no to duoq above plat 1 as a bronze/silver & even gold player?Explain please!!!

At the same time, its a public forums, if really all you care about is the opinion of the 35 people or so currently above 1650 CR, you guys can always make yourselves a private Discord at this point.

Link to post
Share on other sites

It seems Anet thinks GW2 PvP is still somehow competitive when it's not. They treat the current matchmaking system as if the game mode had a huge player base when it doesn't. Why make queuing more of a chore than it is for hardcore players? Rank is super irrelevant, why not allow people to just have fun?

Link to post
Share on other sites

@Nash.3974 said:The recent poll just amazed me how many people who aren’t affected by anything voted against what the majority of the affected people want.To be more specific: it’s a fact that the majority of the plat 2+ players want duoq back. Then why do polls not always show this is a result?Because also people who aren’t affected by that get to vote and somehow most of them like to vote no.I‘m wondering about why do you vote for something you have no clue about/ you aren’t affected by?How did anyone think making a poll where everyone can vote even though they may have no knowledge about what really is best/good for a specific audience is solving a problem or is smart at all?What do you gain from voting no to duoq above plat 1 as a bronze/silver & even gold player?Explain please!!!

They would gain mot having to play matches against two top 10 players. Until they fix the matchmaker, low gold/high silver player's get stuck in matches with top players.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@Faux Play.6104 said:

@Nash.3974 said:The recent poll just amazed me how many people who aren’t affected by anything voted against what the majority of the affected people want.To be more specific: it’s a fact that the majority of the plat 2+ players want duoq back. Then why do polls not always show this is a result?Because also people who aren’t affected by that get to vote and somehow most of them like to vote no.I‘m wondering about why do you vote for something you have no clue about/ you aren’t affected by?How did anyone think making a poll where everyone can vote even though they may have no knowledge about what really is best/good for a specific audience is solving a problem or is smart at all?What do you gain from voting no to duoq above plat 1 as a bronze/silver & even gold player?Explain please!!!

They would gain mot having to play matches against two top 10 players. Until they fix the matchmaker, low gold/high silver player's get stuck in matches with top players.

They would also have two top 10 players on their team so it evens out. People are acting like silvers are getting matched up against pros frequently but this simply isn't the case.

I don't think I've ever had or been matched up against a player below gold 2 since the seasons started. Even those are rare cases.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@Nash.3974 said:The recent poll just amazed me how many people who aren’t affected by anything voted against what the majority of the affected people want.To be more specific: it’s a fact that the majority of the plat 2+ players want duoq back. Then why do polls not always show this is a result?Because also people who aren’t affected by that get to vote and somehow most of them like to vote no.I‘m wondering about why do you vote for something you have no clue about/ you aren’t affected by?How did anyone think making a poll where everyone can vote even though they may have no knowledge about what really is best/good for a specific audience is solving a problem or is smart at all?What do you gain from voting no to duoq above plat 1 as a bronze/silver & even gold player?Explain please!!!

They would gain mot having to play matches against two top 10 players. Until they fix the matchmaker, low gold/high silver player's get stuck in matches with top players.

They would also have two top 10 players on their team so it evens out. People are acting like silvers are getting matched up against pros frequently but this simply isn't the case.

I don't think I've ever had or been matched up against a player below gold 2 since the seasons started. Even those are rare cases.

No> @shadowpass.4236 said:

@Nash.3974 said:The recent poll just amazed me how many people who aren’t affected by anything voted against what the majority of the affected people want.To be more specific: it’s a fact that the majority of the plat 2+ players want duoq back. Then why do polls not always show this is a result?Because also people who aren’t affected by that get to vote and somehow most of them like to vote no.I‘m wondering about why do you vote for something you have no clue about/ you aren’t affected by?How did anyone think making a poll where everyone can vote even though they may have no knowledge about what really is best/good for a specific audience is solving a problem or is smart at all?What do you gain from voting no to duoq above plat 1 as a bronze/silver & even gold player?Explain please!!!

They would gain mot having to play matches against two top 10 players. Until they fix the matchmaker, low gold/high silver player's get stuck in matches with top players.

They would also have two top 10 players on their team so it evens out. People are acting like silvers are getting matched up against pros frequently but this simply isn't the case.

I don't think I've ever had or been matched up against a player below gold 2 since the seasons started. Even those are rare cases.

they wouldn't. Typically it is two top ten vs a team of lower plats and golds. This works especially well in off hours. Queue and the match maker can't find anyone at their level so it keeps expanding the range.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@Nash.3974 said:The recent poll just amazed me how many people who aren’t affected by anything voted against what the majority of the affected people want.To be more specific: it’s a fact that the majority of the plat 2+ players want duoq back. Then why do polls not always show this is a result?Because also people who aren’t affected by that get to vote and somehow most of them like to vote no.I‘m wondering about why do you vote for something you have no clue about/ you aren’t affected by?How did anyone think making a poll where everyone can vote even though they may have no knowledge about what really is best/good for a specific audience is solving a problem or is smart at all?What do you gain from voting no to duoq above plat 1 as a bronze/silver & even gold player?Explain please!!!

No offense, but that tiny of a sampling, why would it encourage or defend. The number of respondents was too small to indicate anything. Even if all the people responding had voted the same way it would in inconclusive. 39 votes isn't a sampling.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@Airdive.2613 said:I'd just like to point out that the poll in question sits on roughly 120 votes at the moment. If you subtract the clueless 90%, we're left with the desire of allegedly no less than 12 players to bring duo queue back.

There are two polls there, I think you refer to the one but the OP was talking the plat one which has 39. Either way, 120 is also, too small a sampling compared to the larger base.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@HeadCrowned.6834 said:

@Azrielvon.7836 said:I believe Anet have the numbers on their side, not your opinions but whether the removal of DuoQ is beneficial to the community as a whole or not. If it favours only a small pool of players, it probably isn't the best idea.

Tell me what reasoning is behind your idea that implementing a proposition that benefits only a small pool of players is bad. Then implementing a dodge key in this game is also bad, cuz the majority of ppl in PvP don't even use it.

The OP is right. Most people who vote don't have any knowledge of PvP, nor are they affected by the thing they vote for.

EVERYBODY is affected by duo queue regardless of rank, I'm getting really tired of this same false argument over and over

What you're saying is factually incorrect, there's no debating this point.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...