shadowpass.4236 Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 Removing titles is pretty weird. That means people who got away with wintrading have some of the most exclusive titles in the game.Not to mention I'm still kicking myself for quing into wintraders the day before season ended and going from r2 to r19. I didn't realize the top spots were all going to get removed so I tried quing to beat them and got screwed over in the end 2 seasons ago. RIP my legendary demigod title.I really think investigations should be conducted throughout the season to prevent scenarios like that from happening. It doesn't make sense to let wintraders run rampant, hurting people for weeks, only to remove them AFTER the damage has been done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LazySummer.2568 Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 can we just add pip rewards to unranked at this point? there's really no point to ranked and i just want to farm gold. i also get to play stronghold for something different and casual for a change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArenaNet Staff Ben Phongluangtham.1065 Posted August 21, 2018 ArenaNet Staff Share Posted August 21, 2018 The removal of the titles was something we've been considering for a while. They haven't really felt great for a while, in my opinion. Mainly because the design of the reward actively discouraged you to play once you hit a certain position on the board. People didn't want to take the risk of losing their position and would often play the bare minimum required.My future desire (not happening this season) is to replace leaderboards rewards with rewards for reaching a tier. Then you're not punished for continuing to play ranked PvP. This does bring up the question of what motivates you once you hit the tier you feel you can reasonably obtain, but that should be up to making sure the pip rewards feel good enough to motivate you to keep playing.The duo-queue change is something we've been somewhat hesitant to bring back. It makes matchmaking at the high and low ends of the skill rating spectrum more difficult. Ultimately, it came down to the fact that most players have more fun queuing up with a friend. Regardless of the effect it has on competitiveness. So we're bringing it back and we'll see how it goes for the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brunoam.7391 Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:The removal of the titles was something we've been considering for a while. They haven't really felt great for a while, in my opinion. Mainly because the design of the reward actively discouraged you to play once you hit a certain position on the board. People didn't want to take the risk of losing their position and would often play the bare minimum required.My future desire (not happening this season) is to replace leaderboards rewards with rewards for reaching a tier. Then you're not punished for continuing to play ranked PvP. This does bring up the question of what motivates you once you hit the tier you feel you can reasonably obtain, but that should be up to making sure the pip rewards feel good enough to motivate you to keep playing.The duo-queue change is something we've been somewhat hesitant to bring back. It makes matchmaking at the high and low ends of the skill rating spectrum more difficult. Ultimately, it came down to the fact that most players have more fun queuing up with a friend. Regardless of the effect it has on competitiveness. So we're bringing it back and we'll see how it goes for the season.And what will be the reward of this season? Pips? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkk.3018 Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 @Vallun.2071 said:I'm guessing our system for rewards will be based purely on ascended shards now. Will there be any incentive to be good at ranked q? In other words, why should I try to get higher rating? Other than a badge and an extra pip, there is no reason. Makes me not care about winning.This can't be understated. I assume the omission of mentioning alternative rewards means there are none. I've always tried to be better and better each season wanting to crack the top 100 title. Now there is no point to aim for that. Why even keep the Leaderboard? I care so little for the items you can trade with those shards and don't keep track of how many I have. Can we not get an official explanation for this??? Or is it going to be shoved under the rug because whatever truth there is behind it is too embarrassing to admit? PVP is dead yes, but you still have your strong, albeit small population of pvp enthusiasts. This update just bulldozes through that whatever is left of the population. Was it just easier to kill off the population entirely so all attention can finally be diverted to PvE (and maybe WvW but IDK the state of it)? I can see absolutely no point in me wanting to play pvp anymore except out of boredom. Those titles are not handed out until the end of the season, so I hope there is still time for PVP devs to reconsider this. If not, an explanation would at least be the decent thing to do. EDIT: I was writing this post up for a long time, and in the interim, Ben replied before I posed. At least it's some closure. I don't understand why the titles could not have waited to be removed until the new system came. Does that not suggest it is pretty far off? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huskyboy.1053 Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 @Darkk.3018 said:@Vallun.2071 said:I'm guessing our system for rewards will be based purely on ascended shards now. Will there be any incentive to be good at ranked q? In other words, why should I try to get higher rating? Other than a badge and an extra pip, there is no reason. Makes me not care about winning.This can't be understated. I assume the omission of mentioning alternative rewards means there are none. I've always tried to be better and better each season wanting to crack the top 100 title. Now there is no point to aim for that. Why even keep the Leaderboard? I care so little for the items you can trade with those shards and don't keep track of how many I have. Can we not get an official explanation for this??? Or is it going to be shoved under the rug because whatever truth there is behind it is too embarrassing to admit? PVP is dead yes, but you still have your strong, albeit small population of pvp enthusiasts. This update just bulldozes through that whatever is left of the population. Was it just easier to kill off the population entirely so all attention can finally be diverted to PvE (and maybe WvW but IDK the state of it)? I can see absolutely no point in me wanting to play pvp anymore except out of boredom. Those titles are not handed out until the end of the season, so I hope there is still time for PVP devs to reconsider this. If not, an explanation would at least be the decent thing to do. You can always do what I do, screenshot your end rating so you can send it to people who are talking shit. Works pretty well, people who refuse to even look at the link are people you can ignore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azure The Heartless.3261 Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 @shadowpass.4236 said:Removing titles is pretty weird. That means people who got away with wintrading have some of the most exclusive titles in the game.I really think investigations should be conducted throughout the season to prevent scenarios like that from happening. It doesn't make sense to let wintraders run rampant, hurting people for weeks, only to remove them AFTER the damage has been done.Quoted for emphasis.Removing a product you have available for players because some people colluded to obtain it illegitimately punishes the wrong people. Hopefully titles return in an avenue that makes it difficult to wintrade for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LUST.2305 Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:The removal of the titles was something we've been considering for a while. They haven't really felt great for a while, in my opinion. Mainly because the design of the reward actively discouraged you to play once you hit a certain position on the board. People didn't want to take the risk of losing their position and would often play the bare minimum required.My future desire (not happening this season) is to replace leaderboards rewards with rewards for reaching a tier. Then you're not punished for continuing to play ranked PvP. This does bring up the question of what motivates you once you hit the tier you feel you can reasonably obtain, but that should be up to making sure the pip rewards feel good enough to motivate you to keep playing.That's why something as basic as titles should be given to more controllable features that everyone can achieve. For example, spending 10000 Ascended Shards for Goddess of PvP. There are many gods and goddess anyway in the lore. (:It seems people mostly want recognition for reaching the top, can just do something that is rotational per season sort of like AT does monthly...plus not make it very restrictive on specific placement (ex. Top 20 gets X from August to October).@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:The duo-queue change is something we've been somewhat hesitant to bring back. It makes matchmaking at the high and low ends of the skill rating spectrum more difficult. Ultimately, it came down to the fact that most players have more fun queuing up with a friend. Regardless of the effect it has on competitiveness. So we're bringing it back and we'll see how it goes for the season.Seems like a catch-22. While it's fun to queue up with a friend, it hurts competitiveness due to how the system looks at it and those who are the odd-person out in those situations. Ideally, I would work better if it were 2v2, 4v4, or 6v6 (some even number rather than odd)...but maybe we don't have the population for it really to go past 2v2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luck slayer.8170 Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 As someone who's been going for the top 25 title (very close last two seasons rank 29,30) I do need something exclusive for the players who try and reach their goals of higher rankings. I am glad you're bringing back duo and I think your general rewards for pvp has been improving so i'm happy about that at least. But if you do not make exclusive rewards for higher skilled players or players trying to get better you're going to kill the competitive side of ranked que. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azure The Heartless.3261 Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 @LUST.7241 said:Seems like a catch-22. While it's fun to queue up with a friend, it hurts competitiveness due to how the system looks at it and those who are the odd-person out in those situations. Ideally, I would work better if it were 2v2, 4v4, or 6v6 (some even number rather than odd)...but maybe we don't have the population for it really to go past 2v2.If there is a honest attempt at balancing PvP that leads to more people picking it back up, full premades might be doable more often than ATs. Not right now though. Duo's a good place to start and see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LUST.2305 Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 @"shadowpass.4236" said:Removing titles is pretty weird. That means people who got away with wintrading have some of the most exclusive titles in the game.Not to mention I'm still kicking myself for quing into wintraders the day before season ended and going from r2 to r19. I didn't realize the top spots were all going to get removed so I tried quing to beat them and got screwed over in the end 2 seasons ago. RIP my legendary demigod title.I really think investigations should be conducted throughout the season to prevent scenarios like that from happening. It doesn't make sense to let wintraders run rampant, hurting people for weeks, only to remove them AFTER the damage has been done.That's why I rather push to make the titles just more accessible to everyone. Wintraders no longer get the "prestige" of having a title earned dishonorably and now exclusively that it's retired completely. If people can just buy them with their excess amount shards or whatever, we hit two Risen Chickens with one stone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suffish.4150 Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:The removal of the titles was something we've been considering for a while. They haven't really felt great for a while, in my opinion. Mainly because the design of the reward actively discouraged you to play once you hit a certain position on the board. People didn't want to take the risk of losing their position and would often play the bare minimum required.My future desire (not happening this season) is to replace leaderboards rewards with rewards for reaching a tier. Then you're not punished for continuing to play ranked PvP. This does bring up the question of what motivates you once you hit the tier you feel you can reasonably obtain, but that should be up to making sure the pip rewards feel good enough to motivate you to keep playing.The duo-queue change is something we've been somewhat hesitant to bring back. It makes matchmaking at the high and low ends of the skill rating spectrum more difficult. Ultimately, it came down to the fact that most players have more fun queuing up with a friend. Regardless of the effect it has on competitiveness. So we're bringing it back and we'll see how it goes for the season.I do understand your thinking behind the removal of titles, however your logic seems flawed in a couple of areas and one particular thing stood out to me immediately. You say that the removal of titles will stop people from camping spots on the leaderboard to stop them from losing rating. However, the only reason removing titles will stop this behaviour is because the players no longer care about their rating. Look at it this way- WHY are the people in the top 10 camping their spots? Because they care about their rating and do not want to lose it. The only reason these players would stop this behaviour is if they do NOT care about their rating and do not care if they lose it and we both know this is a terrible mentality to have in an environment that is supposed to be competitive.The problem lies in the rating system itself, not the behaviour of the players. I do agre with you that camping a spot on the leaderboard is absolutely not something that should be encouraged, but is removing the rewards from both people who camp spots and people who play actively the best solution? Or is the best solution to make playing actively more rewarding in terms of keeping leaderboard positions? I don’t know how you would do this but I do know that simply removing the reason to tryhard for rating is a very lazy fix to the problem of spot-camping.That said I am very happy that duo is returning, but I can’t help but feel disappointed that I will never be able to get the titles for top 3 and higher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ithilwen.1529 Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:The removal of the titles was something we've been considering for a while. They haven't really felt great for a while, in my opinion. Mainly because the design of the reward actively discouraged you to play once you hit a certain position on the board. People didn't want to take the risk of losing their position and would often play the bare minimum required.My future desire (not happening this season) is to replace leaderboards rewards with rewards for reaching a tier. Then you're not punished for continuing to play ranked PvP. This does bring up the question of what motivates you once you hit the tier you feel you can reasonably obtain, but that should be up to making sure the pip rewards feel good enough to motivate you to keep playing.The duo-queue change is something we've been somewhat hesitant to bring back. It makes matchmaking at the high and low ends of the skill rating spectrum more difficult. Ultimately, it came down to the fact that most players have more fun queuing up with a friend. Regardless of the effect it has on competitiveness. So we're bringing it back and we'll see how it goes for the season.I like the sound of gaining rewards by playing.You're absolutely right that Duo queue hurts competitiveness. I don't see the argument for duo queue to increase fun. You can always team queue in unranked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nova.3817 Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 so happy to hear about the return of duos hopefully team is soon to follow and i can play with friends again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senteliks.2360 Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 The duo-queue change is something we've been somewhat hesitant to bring back. It makes matchmaking at the high and low ends of the skill rating spectrum more difficult. Ultimately, it came down to the fact that most players have more fun queuing up with a friend. Regardless of the effect it has on competitiveness. So we're bringing it back and we'll see how it goes for the season.Well this is really bold move, and the risk for "$#$!@!@##%$%^!@#" coming from competitive folks - very loud folks ( most of them), daily buzz in-game and forums. Given how matchmaking is basically almost unmanageable with this system, I think I will skip this season all together. This "fun" is going to ruin a day to a lot of folks and I don't think it's fair to bring it back, without re-design to counter the major issue people have brought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Boyer.6524 Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:The removal of the titles was something we've been considering for a while. They haven't really felt great for a while, in my opinion. Mainly because the design of the reward actively discouraged you to play once you hit a certain position on the board. People didn't want to take the risk of losing their position and would often play the bare minimum required.My future desire (not happening this season) is to replace leaderboards rewards with rewards for reaching a tier. Then you're not punished for continuing to play ranked PvP. This does bring up the question of what motivates you once you hit the tier you feel you can reasonably obtain, but that should be up to making sure the pip rewards feel good enough to motivate you to keep playing.The duo-queue change is something we've been somewhat hesitant to bring back. It makes matchmaking at the high and low ends of the skill rating spectrum more difficult. Ultimately, it came down to the fact that most players have more fun queuing up with a friend. Regardless of the effect it has on competitiveness. So we're bringing it back and we'll see how it goes for the season.Sounds good to me.You know what else sounds good? An AT achievement panel with a whole bunch of new stuff to do and titles there-in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pah.4931 Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:The removal of the titles was something we've been considering for a while. They haven't really felt great for a while, in my opinion. Mainly because the design of the reward actively discouraged you to play once you hit a certain position on the board. People didn't want to take the risk of losing their position and would often play the bare minimum required.My future desire (not happening this season) is to replace leaderboards rewards with rewards for reaching a tier. Then you're not punished for continuing to play ranked PvP. This does bring up the question of what motivates you once you hit the tier you feel you can reasonably obtain, but that should be up to making sure the pip rewards feel good enough to motivate you to keep playing.The duo-queue change is something we've been somewhat hesitant to bring back. It makes matchmaking at the high and low ends of the skill rating spectrum more difficult. Ultimately, it came down to the fact that most players have more fun queuing up with a friend. Regardless of the effect it has on competitiveness. So we're bringing it back and we'll see how it goes for the season.Any chance in hell you're considering bringing team queue back? It sucks that my two brothers and I can't farm pips on the few nights we can play together... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pah.4931 Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 @Ithilwen.1529 said:@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:The removal of the titles was something we've been considering for a while. They haven't really felt great for a while, in my opinion. Mainly because the design of the reward actively discouraged you to play once you hit a certain position on the board. People didn't want to take the risk of losing their position and would often play the bare minimum required.My future desire (not happening this season) is to replace leaderboards rewards with rewards for reaching a tier. Then you're not punished for continuing to play ranked PvP. This does bring up the question of what motivates you once you hit the tier you feel you can reasonably obtain, but that should be up to making sure the pip rewards feel good enough to motivate you to keep playing.The duo-queue change is something we've been somewhat hesitant to bring back. It makes matchmaking at the high and low ends of the skill rating spectrum more difficult. Ultimately, it came down to the fact that most players have more fun queuing up with a friend. Regardless of the effect it has on competitiveness. So we're bringing it back and we'll see how it goes for the season.I like the sound of gaining rewards by playing.You're absolutely right that Duo queue hurts competitiveness. I don't see the argument for duo queue to increase fun. You can always team queue in unranked.That argument goes both ways (logically speaking, not emotionally). You can always join a team...Personally, I don't get to play that often, so when i play with my brothers... not being rewarded anything for playing is not a great experience. We are being punished for wanting to play together... that is logically dumb.Team queues actually increase competitiveness... for teams (it is the highest level of competitiveness, in fact, unarguably). I personally don't think there's anything wrong with the highest level of play being teams. If you can't get out of gold as a solo player against teams (usually of a lesser skill level, by how matchmaking works) then you have a reason to queue up in a team! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milego.4830 Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 @LUST.7241 said:@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:The removal of the titles was something we've been considering for a while. They haven't really felt great for a while, in my opinion. Mainly because the design of the reward actively discouraged you to play once you hit a certain position on the board. People didn't want to take the risk of losing their position and would often play the bare minimum required.My future desire (not happening this season) is to replace leaderboards rewards with rewards for reaching a tier. Then you're not punished for continuing to play ranked PvP. This does bring up the question of what motivates you once you hit the tier you feel you can reasonably obtain, but that should be up to making sure the pip rewards feel good enough to motivate you to keep playing.That's why something as basic as titles should be given to more controllable features that everyone can achieve. For example, spending 10000 Ascended Shards for Goddess of PvP. There are many gods and goddess anyway in the lore. (:That's actually a good idea. Since matchmaking is beyond salvation and, as someone said before, the top titles are basically decided by either RNG or win trading, making the titles buyables will make the long term variance bearable and slowly remove the RNG factor from the equation. The currency used to buy the titles should be given based on the leaderboard placement at the end of the season.Obviously, top titles should cost A LOT of said currency, but then really good players will eventually get there. God of PVP could cost the equivalent of 10 Seasons in the Top 50, for example.@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrauls.6519 Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:The removal of the titles was something we've been considering for a while. They haven't really felt great for a while, in my opinion. Mainly because the design of the reward actively discouraged you to play once you hit a certain position on the board. People didn't want to take the risk of losing their position and would often play the bare minimum required.My future desire (not happening this season) is to replace leaderboards rewards with rewards for reaching a tier. Then you're not punished for continuing to play ranked PvP. This does bring up the question of what motivates you once you hit the tier you feel you can reasonably obtain, but that should be up to making sure the pip rewards feel good enough to motivate you to keep playing.The duo-queue change is something we've been somewhat hesitant to bring back. It makes matchmaking at the high and low ends of the skill rating spectrum more difficult. Ultimately, it came down to the fact that most players have more fun queuing up with a friend. Regardless of the effect it has on competitiveness. So we're bringing it back and we'll see how it goes for the season.Makes sense. I have a feeling duo-queue will make games feel lame again @ higher levels. I'm ready to get crushed I guess.On a separate note - I recommend you check out the Guardian forum to see good ways to properly buff Dragonhunter. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Fear.1624 Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 @Vallun.2071 said:why should I try to get higher rating? so bad thieves like me can watch your videos in high level play. i watch them all and while the music may not always be to my tastes, it's a break from my monotony of sound lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutOfOrder.3719 Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 Sure sounds like we have hit the lowest point of moral ever in PvP.You can't take something away without replacing it with something else.This is one step forward with bringing Duo que back for all players, but 10 steps backward by removing leaderboard titles.I was patient for an official response for what was going to replace the current title system. Now that we know that nothing is coming to replace those top 250 titles, I have every reason to be upset.The only good that I can see from this, is that the top 100 will be forced to keep searching as other players will be pushing their player ratings higher with each week. This will make it harder for players to sit at the top of the Leaderboard with minimal games played. Perhaps I will be able to push into top 250 with Duo que this season. But where is the incentive for me to keep trying to improve other than climbing the Leaderboard?Although I love this game and playing PvP, i don't think ANET marketing has a clue on how to manage their game. It would be great if someone making these important decisions actually play PvP occasionally.The rating system and MMR really need to be updated to work with a low population. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Fear.1624 Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 It's almost as if the "good" players think we won't recognize their skill or watch their streams anymore. Good players will always get the recognition, and people will still watch your videos and streams because they enjoy it or want to learn. PvP seems like it may be going through a sort or long term evolution but if you like the game don't quick because it may turn into something beautiful. You don't want to quit playing/ steaming and be out of the skill loop and then forgotten because you don't make content.Somewhere down the road on-demand tournaments or swiss is coming and us "bads" can watch your proper and official teams fight for glory in battle.I do hope that elements found to be broken once the skill cap in teams go up are swiftly eliminated so "unfun" metas do not ruin observing games.If you don't like the game because of where it is at now and hate it....bye Felicia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayAction.9056 Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 I’m happy with removal of titles.Please add a new incentive though. Buff rev and make useful of excessive useless traits too btw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaboBabo.3581 Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 balance changes inc too? @Gaile Gray.6029Have a good n8 sir Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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