New Dagger Storm Is Unfun Power Creep (Please Anet stop doing these arbitrary power creeps)

[Vallun.2071]

The new Dagger Storm changes read: This skill now grants evade while casting in addition to its other effects. Its cooldown has been increased to 90 seconds. This not only power creeps the skill in a way that isn't interesting, but also makes the skill very uninteractive.

Firstly, dagger storm is a reflecting ability. That means even though projectiles are not effective versus it, unblockable projectiles could still be worth using against a dagger storm. Secondly there was potential to interupt dagger storm through removing the stability or by corrupt. Now there is no reason to use anything against dagger storm because it has evasion, and walls like fear wall ele earth wall which were effective vs evading effects are not even effective here because the stability can't be stripped because of evasion, and theyll just lose a stack or two by passing through these walls. Very uninteractive.

These kinds of power creep are what we DO NOT want when bringing balance to underused skill and utilities. Forcing them into relevancy by making them overpowered rather than respecting their situational usage (I actually was going to put dagger storm as a slot in my pvp sd thief build) is how we got the current form of soul beast and rev 1 shot specs. Please revert this change, or make the daggers flung by dagger storm life steal which will give the extra survivability that you want to give to dagger storm without all the uninteractive uncounterplayability that you gave it with just flat evasion. I want my class to not be broken any more like all of the deadeye changes made in the previous patch.

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

so basicly, there is nothing to stop this skill from doing its whole duration. well done.

[dDuff.3860]

Wtb 20 thieves wvw raids with daggerstorms.

[KrHome.1920]

True, after I stopped the party because auf necro buffs, I took another look at the patchnotes, noticed the dagger storm buff and WTF??!!

Thief got a 4s invulnerability skill that also deals siginificant direct and condi damage and grants maximum movent speed. Was that nessessary?

Why don't you also add a stunbreak to it ANet?! It might be a bit weak in its current state, don't you think?

[Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497]

The problem with dagger storm was that the skill was ALWAYS a death sentence to thief. Even more so now when other specs can deal bonkers damage with high survivability.

Im perfectly fine with it gaining evasion as it is still a very situational skill. The damage of dagger storm scales with proximity and nearby enemies. It can only throw up to 8 daggers that actually deal damage, and that number decreases the further away the enemies are. So the damage is also not immediate. Not the most offensive elite skill in GW2 still. Using it against one person won't deal a lot of damage but it grants a moment of respite. Which is kinda important when most thief builds require them to be glassy.

The stability is just one stack. Which was a major issue to the skill. This doesn't feel good when skills designed to flip the tables prove to be a bigger hindrance.

If it seriously proves to be a problem than an efdect similar to sand lions that prevents damage for so many attacka would be good.

[KrHome.1920]

The 4s evasion alone would justify an elite skill on teef as this is extremely stong on such a mobile class.

Thief elites are becoming a bit over the top. Deadeye reveal break on ammunition system is also just dumb.

[Artaz.3819]

New PvP / WvW elite unless Deadeye. 4s invuln ... lol

[inci.3705]

It's basically a Twist of Fate on a longer CD. In fact, I've just been using it as such xD

[Simonoly.4352]

I do see what you mean OP, that we've gone from a "oh he's Dagger Storming, I'll counter this with specific things" to "Oh he's Dagger Storming, I'll just go away for 4 seconds then" - this is something that has sadly happened a lot to this game. But really Dagger Storm has always been a bit of a death sentence to use because you simply can't survive the inevitable damage dump that occurs and you often end up just dodging out of it because of all the pressure you take. Personally, I'd have preferred a redesign where Dagger Storm was an ammo elite where we can activate short bursts of Dagger Storm rather than being locked in for a certain period of time giving us more flexibility to use it within our usual skill rotations.

But I guess 4 seconds of just sort of spinning around unharmed it'll have to be!

[Sir Vincent III.1286]

@"Vallun.2071" said:The new Dagger Storm changes read: This skill now grants evade while casting in addition to its other effects. Its cooldown has been increased to 90 seconds. This not only power creeps the skill in a way that isn't interesting, but also makes the skill very uninteractive.

Firstly, dagger storm is a reflecting ability. That means even though projectiles are not effective versus it, unblockable projectiles could still be worth using against a dagger storm. Secondly there was potential to interupt dagger storm through removing the stability or by corrupt. Now there is no reason to use anything against dagger storm because it has evasion, and walls like fear wall ele earth wall which were effective vs evading effects are not even effective here because the stability can't be stripped because of evasion, and theyll just lose a stack or two by passing through these walls. Very uninteractive.

These kinds of power creep are what we DO NOT want when bringing balance to underused skill and utilities. Forcing them into relevancy by making them overpowered rather than respecting their situational usage (I actually was going to put dagger storm as a slot in my pvp sd thief build) is how we got the current form of soul beast and rev 1 shot specs. Please revert this change, or make the daggers flung by dagger storm life steal which will give the extra survivability that you want to give to dagger storm without all the uninteractive uncounterplayability that you gave it with just flat evasion. I want my class to not be broken any more like all of the deadeye changes made in the previous patch.

Winds of Disenchantment says "hi".

Talk about that Elite Skill if you want to talk about power creep.

Dagger Storm deserves this buff. I don't like the 90s CD, but it's worth it. If Death Blossom can evade, Dagger Storm should have had the evade in the first place.

[eldrjth.7384]

What about having a split between PvP+WvW and PvE. In PvE keep the lower CD and reduce the evade duration by half. This skill was useful on lower cooldown against mobs of enemies and was my favourite change to thief since the DE revamp and now its crapped on because of another game mode.

[Vallun.2071]

@"Sir Vincent III.1286" said:

Winds of Disenchantment says "hi".

Talk about that Elite Skill if you want to talk about power creep.

Dagger Storm deserves this buff. I don't like the 90s CD, but it's worth it. If Death Blossom can evade, Dagger Storm should have had the evade in the first place.

your logic is so bad and basically goes along these lines: one skill is a spin and is an evade with high counterplay to it (death blossom), therefore this other skill that is a spin should be a much longer evade with no counterplay to it (dagger storm)

[Sir Vincent III.1286]

@Vallun.2071 said:

@"Sir Vincent III.1286" said:

Winds of Disenchantment says "hi".

Talk about that Elite Skill if you want to talk about power creep.

Dagger Storm deserves this buff. I don't like the 90s CD, but it's worth it. If Death Blossom can evade, Dagger Storm should have had the evade in the first place.

your logic is so bad and basically goes along these lines: one skill is a spin and is an evade with high counterplay to it (death blossom), therefore this other skill that is a spin should be a much longer evade with no counterplay to it (dagger storm)

Yes, it follows the same logic that if you spin really really fast that you can actually deflect projectiles (even bullets and orbs of light) and maintain a solid stability.

[Vallun.2071]

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:

@Vallun.2071 said:

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:

Winds of Disenchantment says "hi".

Talk about that Elite Skill if you want to talk about power creep.

Dagger Storm deserves this buff. I don't like the 90s CD, but it's worth it. If Death Blossom can evade, Dagger Storm should have had the evade in the first place.

your logic is so bad and basically goes along these lines: one skill is a spin and is an evade with high counterplay to it (death blossom), therefore this other skill that is a spin should be a much longer evade with no counterplay to it (dagger storm)

Yes, it follows the same logic that if you spin really really fast that you can actually deflect projectiles (even bullets and orbs of light) and maintain a solid stability.

were discussing game balance not roleplay lmao

[Sir Vincent III.1286]

@Vallun.2071 said:

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:

@Vallun.2071 said:

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:

Winds of Disenchantment says "hi".

Talk about that Elite Skill if you want to talk about power creep.

Dagger Storm deserves this buff. I don't like the 90s CD, but it's worth it. If Death Blossom can evade, Dagger Storm should have had the evade in the first place.

your logic is so bad and basically goes along these lines: one skill is a spin and is an evade with high counterplay to it (death blossom), therefore this other skill that is a spin should be a much longer evade with no counterplay to it (dagger storm)

Yes, it follows the same logic that if you spin really really fast that you can actually deflect projectiles (even bullets and orbs of light) and maintain a solid stability.

were discussing game balance not roleplay lmao

You brought it there. I didn't.

[Omnicron.2467]

Infiltrator Strike into enemy blob, Dagger Storm, teleport out could be fun XD

[Alatar.7364]

Indeed, that Change was rather entertaining to read in Update notes.I need to redefine ' entertaining '....Anyway, I suppose we will have to see how it ends up, it was always underused borderline useless Elite, but this change seems worse than reworking it in to different working Elite instead.

[Sir Vincent III.1286]

@Alatar.7364 said:Indeed, that Change was rather entertaining to read in Update notes.I need to redefine ' entertaining '....Anyway, I suppose we will have to see how it ends up, it was always underused borderline useless Elite, but this change seems worse than reworking it in to different working Elite instead.

Yesh, I've always suggested that Dagger Storm should only spin once plus evade, reflect, stab, etc.

Anet took that idea and made Full Counter.

[SoulSin.5682]

That was indeed unnecessary. I mean... evasion of all things?

Dagger Storm is now the perfect run away tool. Extra speed, reflect, evasion, stability and Cripple. And can clean one condition.

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

An ANet dev probably got tired of soulbeasts one shotting him through reflect.

I get why they changed it, it was a weak skill, but a 4s evade is bonkers.

[mraulsx.8057]

Dagger storm about make me pee my dh pants

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

The scorpion wire change is great, the rest of the patch is just a total random bag of buffs along with a spider venom nerf... but only in PvE o.O

I get why they did the daggerstorm change, but 4s evade is crazy even on a 72/90s cooldown. I used to use take root on my condi build (spike, lay choking gas, take root to prevent counterstrike, prepare myself for incoming salt) but this is now just waaaaaaaay better.

[Tails.9372]

@SoulSin.5682 said:Dagger Storm is now the perfect run away tool.Yeah but on the other hand you can't use Basilisk Venom or Shadow Meld if you use Dagger Storm.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

this skill is a perfect tool for troll evasion teef.

[Jack Redline.5379]

new dagger storm is imo very good and i like it. it is reacting to combo fields which means it deals condis and also it is not so powerful only thing we really can use it as is that awesome dodge which is really helpful. everyone complained about how thief is squishi. well we got 4 sec evade that is imo just fine for you to survive. and i dont want this to be changed it is good elite upgrade and i like it.