Anniversary Video Discussion

[aspirine.5839]

So it is going to be pre-searing ascalon? :)

[Raizel.8175]

@"Batel.9206" said:Didn't they do the same thing with Season One and Season Two? One led directly into the other, and there wasn't an expansion between them. Don't see how this is any different, or why it heralds the arrival of "game is DYIIIIIIIIIIIING!!1!" doomsayers.

You honestly can't compare Seasons 1 and 2 with the current Seasons. Season 1 and 2 had a lot more quality game design. They had interesting and fun events and - in DT and SW - farmable meta-events which lead to replayability. SW is still one of the most popular maps of the game. During Season 1 and 2 they actually got it right what a MMORPG should be about: actual gameplay. Everything since Season 3 is mostly lifeless due to their LW-formula which apparently failed. We only get new maps which live for a week or two because people just grab the AP and then are finished with that map. It's nice and all that the quality of the story got better, but that simply isn't what should matter in a MMORPG. Out of S3 and S4, Istan is the main-attraction because it is farmable content even though quality-wise, it's quite bad since it's just brainless zerging. GW2 is all about grinding anyway. In that regard, I'm quite disappointed about their current plans. Moving from one lifeless season into the next will hurt the game as long as they don't change their approach as to how they want to design LW-episodes. They really should consider to add more large-scale meta-events à la Heart of Thorns or even à la SW or interesting new World Bosses à la Tripe Trouble (light). That would actually keep LW-maps interesting - just like DT and SW do.

[Agent Noun.7350]

@"lokh.2695" said:2) "We will go from LS4 to LS5" - I'm worried that this is reason for concern. Not that I want to complain about free episodic content going on for at least another year, far from that. But it feels like they're not planing on releasing an expansion in 2019. We know nothing at this point, so it's not worth panicing over it.

It's possible they just need more time to work on a new expansion for one reason or another--it might include a big new feature, overhauls to existing systems, or things like that. Or maybe they're experimenting with going back to the "no expansions, just free episodic content drops" model, but I kind of doubt that because by all accounts the expansion model has been fairly successful.

@Raizel.8175 said:GW2 is all about grinding anyway. In that regard, I'm quite disappointed about their current plans. Moving from one lifeless season into the next will hurt the game as long as they don't change their approach as to how they want to design LW-episodes. They really should consider to add more large-scale meta-events à la Heart of Thorns or even à la SW or interesting new World Bosses à la Tripe Trouble (light). That would actually keep LW-maps interesting - just like DT and SW do.

While I wouldn't want every map to revolve around a complex meta event--those can get just as boring as brainless zerging if you do them often enough--I would like to see more of them, or at least interesting new world bosses. GW2 is at its strongest in the open world, I think, so adding more exciting open world content would be very welcome.

I understand that sometimes those world bosses or meta events can be frustrating to players, especially when a map fails the meta or the world boss and you feel like you wasted a bunch of time, but I think as long as these things aren't the only big thing around, that's okay. Failure is okay sometimes.

What I'm saying is give me another Tarir, that's a cool meta.

[maddoctor.2738]

@Arden.7480 said:It raises a question: Do they have the money for the expansion?

Judging by the quarterly reports, after Path of Fire the game is mostly stable with higher revenue than between Heart of Thorns and Path of Fire and higher revenue (slightly) than during Season 2, very close to mid/end Season 1 numbers. If they can keep this up (or even increase it) is anyone's guess. IF the game was making money back then (when they weren't thinking about expansions) then it sure does make money now.

[WhatLiesBeneath.9018]

@Agent Noun.7350 said:

@"lokh.2695" said:2) "We will go from LS4 to LS5" - I'm worried that this is reason for concern. Not that I want to complain about free episodic content going on for at least another year, far from that. But it feels like they're not planing on releasing an expansion in 2019. We know nothing at this point, so it's not worth panicing over it.

It's worth noting there was quite a bit of content drought between the end of season 3 and Path of Fire. It's possible that season 5 will smooth over the transition to a new expansion (though that expansion might come in early 2020 instead of 2019 if that's the case). It's also possible they just need more time to work on a new expansion for one reason or another--it might include a big new feature, overhauls to existing systems, or things like that.

Or maybe they're experimenting with going back to the "no expansions, just free episodic content drops" model, but I kind of doubt that because by all accounts the expansion model has been fairly successful.

@Raizel.8175 said:GW2 is all about grinding anyway. In that regard, I'm quite disappointed about their current plans. Moving from one lifeless season into the next will hurt the game as long as they don't change their approach as to how they want to design LW-episodes. They really should consider to add more large-scale meta-events à la Heart of Thorns or even à la SW or interesting new World Bosses à la Tripe Trouble (light). That would actually keep LW-maps interesting - just like DT and SW do.

While I wouldn't want every map to revolve around a complex meta event--those can get just as boring as brainless zerging if you do them often enough--I would like to see more of them, or at least interesting new world bosses. GW2 is at its strongest in the open world, I think, so adding more exciting open world content would be very welcome.

I understand that sometimes those world bosses or meta events can be frustrating to players, especially when a map fails the meta or the world boss and you feel like you wasted a bunch of time, but I think as long as these things aren't the

only

big thing around, that's okay. Failure is okay sometimes.

What I'm saying is give me another Tarir, that's a cool meta.

Path of Fire came out 2 months after the last chapter of Season 3, that is NOT a content drought.

[Healix.5819]

@Arden.7480 said:It raises a question: Do they have the money for the expansion?

If they didn't have the money, the last thing they'd do is start a new season - they'd sell it.

[Agent Noun.7350]

@WhatLiesBeneath.9018 said:Path of Fire came out 2 months after the last chapter of Season 3, that is NOT a content drought.

Huh, you're right. I have no idea why I didn't remember that. I must have let the raiders' complaining get to me. I'll edit that out because that was super wrong.

@Arden.7480 said:It raises a question: Do they have the money for the expansion?

Why would they plan a longer period of free content updates if the problem is that they lack the budget to make an expansion? Wouldn't they announce an expansion early so that they can open preorders and get some cash? Or maybe introduce some high-priced items in the Gem Store or a subscription model or something?

[MokahTGS.7850]

Does this mean (and I'm referring to Galie's comments) that Season 5 comes free to people that bought PoF like season 4?

[WhatLiesBeneath.9018]

@MokahTGS.7850 said:Does this mean (and I'm referring to Galie's comments) that Season 5 comes free to people that bought PoF like season 4?

I guess thats how its going to work :)

[MokahTGS.7850]

@WhatLiesBeneath.9018 said:

@MokahTGS.7850 said:Does this mean (and I'm referring to Galie's comments) that Season 5 comes free to people that bought PoF like season 4?

I guess thats how its going to work :)

To be honest, that seems odd if that is the case. I'm assuming ANet knows what they are doing, but I would have bought the next expansion to get season 5. The old model didn't seem broken to me.

[moonstarmac.4603]

Sun's Refuge, aka the Sunspear Sancutary...It was beautiful in GW1...I can only imagine how they will make it better in GW2. I think I am going to have to break off WoW for a bit and work on GW2 PoF some more...I have only cleared it with 1 character so far lol.

[Agent Noun.7350]

@MokahTGS.7850 said:To be honest, that seems odd if that is the case. I'm assuming ANet knows what they are doing, but I would have bought the next expansion to get season 5. The old model didn't seem broken to me.

It definitely suggests that it's important enough to ArenaNet to take a longer time on the next expansion that it's worth delaying the revenue from selling that expansion (and releasing more free content in the interim).

[Menadena.7482]

@Archdevil.1748 said:That got me really confused. Can we get a clarification on that? Is LS4 over with just 3 episodes? If yes - when is LS5 expected to begin? I was sooo hyped about the Sunspear sanctuary and that thing with LS sank my heart :(

I am actually hoping it is a LS5 thing if any mastery points need to be used since the beetle brought me to zero. Of course, if it is not a mastery hopefully we will get it soon (which is probable since the chapter with it is at a state they have some things done).

[Evrae Altana.1295]

I'm still waiting on a decent expansion like Factions and Nightfall. The current expansions are too small and finished in a day while the Living Story is like those DLC's u get in season passes: hastily written bland content that adds no value to the game.

[miraude.2107]

I'm liking the Sun's Refuge but want more info on it. Like what will I be able to use in there? Will there be nodes for it? What kind of decorations? What kind of npcs? Are we able to show it off? How will decorations be obtained? etc.I like the home instances despite being unable to truly customize them (everything has their set spot and the only truly selection is npcs, like who you decide to help after choosing an order) however I'm feeling a bit cautious on this. I don't want to get my hopes up however I don't want it to be something where I get it and two episodes down the line it's forgotten. I don't want to see another Warlords Barracks where I worked on it, got the arch corner completed and get a 'you guyz worked zo hard on this and good job but lolz, it doesn't matter now because class hallz~'

[Linken.6345]

@MokahTGS.7850 said:

@WhatLiesBeneath.9018 said:

@MokahTGS.7850 said:Does this mean (and I'm referring to Galie's comments) that Season 5 comes free to people that bought PoF like season 4?

I guess thats how its going to work :)

To be honest, that seems odd if that is the case. I'm assuming ANet knows what they are doing, but I would have bought the next expansion to get season 5. The old model didn't seem broken to me.

You do know you get season 4 even now on a free to play account if you login when its active and can access it when you upgrade right?

[MokahTGS.7850]

@Linken.6345 said:

@MokahTGS.7850 said:

@WhatLiesBeneath.9018 said:

@MokahTGS.7850 said:Does this mean (and I'm referring to Galie's comments) that Season 5 comes free to people that bought PoF like season 4?

I guess thats how its going to work :)

To be honest, that seems odd if that is the case. I'm assuming ANet knows what they are doing, but I would have bought the next expansion to get season 5. The old model didn't seem broken to me.

You do know you get season 4 even now on a free to play account if you login when its active and can access it when you upgrade right?

You get it unlocked, but need PoF to play it. "You can unlock the episodes even if you do not own Path of Fire, but you must have the expansion in order to play them."

Essentially, you need to buy an expansion to "get" the Living World. It doesn't matter if it's unlocked, if you can't play it.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Living_World_Season_4#Dates_of_free_access

[Linken.6345]

@MokahTGS.7850 said:

@Linken.6345 said:

@MokahTGS.7850 said:

@WhatLiesBeneath.9018 said:

@MokahTGS.7850 said:Does this mean (and I'm referring to Galie's comments) that Season 5 comes free to people that bought PoF like season 4?

I guess thats how its going to work :)

To be honest, that seems odd if that is the case. I'm assuming ANet knows what they are doing, but I would have bought the next expansion to get season 5. The old model didn't seem broken to me.

You do know you get season 4 even now on a free to play account if you login when its active and can access it when you upgrade right?

You get it unlocked, but need PoF to play it. "You can unlock the episodes even if you do not own Path of Fire, but you must have the expansion in order to play them."

Essentially, you need to buy an expansion to "get" the Living World. It doesn't matter if it's unlocked, if you can't play it.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Living_World_Season_4#Dates_of_free_access

The "access it when you upgrade" means you have to buy expansion thought people would understand that

[Menadena.7482]

@Ashantara.8731 said:All that GW3 talk is nonsense IMO and mere panicmongering. How can a video so inspired and full of motivational statements from various devs on the future of GW2 result in the belief that the game is going to come to an end soon? Absolutely incomprehensible to me.

Parse error?

No program exists in the same state for a long period of time. People think you can just 'add 1 more feature' but eventually you have to bite the bullet and rewrite huge swaths of the engine. If GW2 lasts long enough eventually there will have to be a GW3, that is pretty much a certainty. The only question is it called GW3 or is it a bunch of updates that seem on the outside to have nothing to do with each other. I am guessing they will want to keep as much of the data if possible (especially the content that has been developed) so very probably it would be the latter.

[Agent Noun.7350]

@Menadena.7482 said:

@"Ashantara.8731" said:All that GW3 talk is nonsense IMO and mere panicmongering. How can a video so inspired and full of motivational statements from various devs on the future of GW2 result in the belief that the game is going to come to an end soon? Absolutely incomprehensible to me.

Parse error?

No program exists in the same state for a long period of time. People think you can just 'add 1 more feature' but eventually you have to bite the bullet and rewrite huge swaths of the engine. If GW2 lasts long enough eventually there will have to be a GW3, that is pretty much a certainty. The only question is it called GW3 or is it a bunch of updates that seem on the outside to have nothing to do with each other. I am guessing they will want to keep as much of the data if possible (especially the content that has been developed) so very probably it would be the latter.

Why is it a certainty that GW3 is completely necessary? World of Warcraft has been running for fourteen years without needing a hypothetical World of Warcraft 2. It's gotten plenty of engine tweaks along the way, graphical and otherwise, but ultimately never needed to do a sequel break.

ArenaNet needed to make Guild Wars 2 because they wanted to do something that was so utterly different from Guild Wars 1 that updating that game to do it would be the functional equivalent of making an entirely new game anyway. The only reason to make Guild Wars 3 would be the same: if it becomes more practical to launch an entirely different game than to update Guild Wars 2 in a way that lets ArenaNet do what they want to do with it.

I mean, you're definitely right that GW2 is going to need updates and is going to need to change over time, but that's not really news--the GW2 of today is already a very different game than it was in 2012, and I fully expect that if it's still running in 2024 it'll be a very different game yet again. But I don't think that necessarily means it'd be functionally GW3 in all but name or anything.

I reserve the right to be wrong if it turns out there's something fundamental about GW2's engine that limits the ways in which it can be rewritten and updated without just needing to start from scratch, of course, but it's definitely worth considering just how huge of a project launching a completely new MMO is. And that's discounting how rare it is for a sequel to an MMO to actually have legs. Like, EverQuest 2 is technically still running but I wouldn't call it particularly successful, and the original EverQuest is still getting content updates despite the existence of a sequel, even. GW2 is a pretty rare case, and might not even technically count given that GW1 isn't "truly" an MMO, which makes GW2 a fundamentally different kind of game.

[Healix.5819]

@MokahTGS.7850 said:To be honest, that seems odd if that is the case. I'm assuming ANet knows what they are doing, but I would have bought the next expansion to get season 5. The old model didn't seem broken to me.

Season 5 could be locked behind anything or nothing. It could certainly even be locked behind the next expansion, if the finale of season 4 announces it along with pre-purchases.

[MokahTGS.7850]

@Healix.5819 said:

@MokahTGS.7850 said:To be honest, that seems odd if that is the case. I'm assuming ANet knows what they are doing, but I would have bought the next expansion to get season 5. The old model didn't seem broken to me.

Season 5 could be locked behind anything or nothing. It could certainly even be locked behind the next expansion, if the finale of season 4 announces it along with pre-purchases.

Galie's comments seem to say otherwise, but as always, we don't know anything until we do.

[Susy.7529]

I must say I'm a bit sad by that announcement, I was expecting the new expansion to be released after S4. Thoughts?

[Ashen.2907]

My first thought on the matter was, "how many essentially duplicate threads on this topic do we need?"

After that, "I guess I would rather they get the expansion right, by delaying it, rather than rushing out a bland or unfinished product."

[Greener.6204]

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/53216/do-they-abandon-the-expansion-model