the mesmer nerfs were undeserved

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

@bravan.3876 said:

@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:ME: Boy im glad the subjectively OP claims and focus are finally not on DPS mirage anymore.

grabs popcorn

The only problem with power mirages (or mesmer in general) is superiority complex what gives stupid high dmg even when failing your burst combo and gives constant high pressure with all skills on crit and broken or lame stuff like retargeting skills (axe 3, illusionary ambush) on way to low cd and max range no animation instant dmg like mantra of pain. Scholar rune also could get another 6. boni.

I run a DPS GS + Axe/torch build. Traveler runes. No mantra or EM or IH. I do run Illusionary Ambush myself as it helps catch up to those who run, however i hate how it doesn't make you face the target upon teleporting, wasting a precious second or 2. Imo DPS mirage is in a decent place, esp compared to like 6+ months ago.

I will say I do love the de-target aspect of the class. I think thats what started me on the class.

[Dadnir.5038]

I hope this thread is like I read it: High level sarcasm.

[Aeolus.3615]

@PaRaPhReNiA.8763 said:Hahaha what did I just read. Condi Mirage Not op. Ok

Hey some players feel really reward from being carried, and think its pure personal skill...that works in this game.

[bravan.3876]

@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:ME: Boy im glad the subjectively OP claims and focus are finally not on DPS mirage anymore.

grabs popcorn

The only problem with power mirages (or mesmer in general) is superiority complex what gives stupid high dmg even when failing your burst combo and gives constant high pressure with all skills on crit and broken or lame stuff like retargeting skills (axe 3, illusionary ambush) on way to low cd and max range no animation instant dmg like mantra of pain. Scholar rune also could get another 6. boni.

I run a DPS GS + Axe/torch build. Traveler runes. No mantra or EM or IH. I do run Illusionary Ambush myself as it helps catch up to those who run, however i hate how it doesn't make you face the target upon teleporting, wasting a precious second or 2. Imo DPS mirage is in a decent place, esp compared to like 6+ months ago.

I will say I do love the de-target aspect of the class. I think thats what started me on the class.

No EM no IH? Means you run the conditrait on a power build?Tbh i prefer to fight a mesmer using a mantra over facing someone with illusionary ambush. And with axe in addition, maybe even another stealth you will be out of target most time of the fight. The de-targeting skills on axe and illusionary ambush have way too low cd atm for all the stuff they do. Even with doubled their cd it would still be broken and clearly is the most annoying mechanic to face in the game. In particular with GWs already not always proper working targeting. Ofc its even more lame on condi, you at least play power.

[bravan.3876]

@blackgamma.1809 said:the fact that Mesmer has access to vigor at all is op. you literally have access to other evade mechanics and stealth with evade traits with less than 2 second cooldown.

condi mesmer is still strong, if not better now with sceptre buffs

Uhm what? Mesmer only has these active defense tools (when not running inspiration or chaos) and compared to a Rev or Warrior or Sword Weaver and some Ranger Builds (to make only few examples) which all can even facetank inbetween all their active defense tools the mesmer has even less evade frames than these facetank classes. That goes at least for mirages not running retargeting skills and all none mirage mesmer builds. And these classes do not even run double energy sigil and adventure rune. Pls get informed before posting.

What traits/skills with less then 2 seconds cooldown?

Anet nerfed Adventure Rune already what was a good move, also the change to blurrend frenzy is somehow ok, even tho it is changed for all mesmer builds not only condi/hybrid mirages. Now another core trait got nerfed for active defense hurt all mesmer builds not only the op condi/hybrid which still has a lot of evades thanks to very low cooldown axe 3 and illusionary ambush. These 2 skills are the real issue when it comes to dodge frames of mesmer after all the other not needed nerfs to vigor.

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

@bravan.3876 said:

@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:ME: Boy im glad the subjectively OP claims and focus are finally not on DPS mirage anymore.

grabs popcorn

The only problem with power mirages (or mesmer in general) is superiority complex what gives stupid high dmg even when failing your burst combo and gives constant high pressure with all skills on crit and broken or lame stuff like retargeting skills (axe 3, illusionary ambush) on way to low cd and max range no animation instant dmg like mantra of pain. Scholar rune also could get another 6. boni.

I run a DPS GS + Axe/torch build. Traveler runes. No mantra or EM or IH. I do run Illusionary Ambush myself as it helps catch up to those who run, however i hate how it doesn't make you face the target upon teleporting, wasting a precious second or 2. Imo DPS mirage is in a decent place, esp compared to like 6+ months ago.

I will say I do love the de-target aspect of the class. I think thats what started me on the class.

No EM no IH? Means you run the conditrait on a power build?Tbh i prefer to fight a mesmer using a mantra over facing someone with illusionary ambush. And with axe in addition, maybe even another stealth you will be out of target most time of the fight. The de-targeting skills on axe and illusionary ambush have way too low cd atm for all the stuff they do. Even with doubled their cd it would still be broken and clearly is the most annoying mechanic to face in the game. In particular with GWs already not always proper working targeting. Ofc its even more lame on condi, you at least play power.

I was running IH, however I don't think I am getting anything out of it, and I wont use EM so the last trait is what I am stuck with lol (so its not by choice). Power axe, while not optimal, is highly enjoyable. Was dueling someone in WvW (chrono) who complained about getting 6-7 stack sof torment, even tho ai am running a "DPS" build. When I stated its built into my weps so I cant help it, and asked them to actually look at the damage (which would be minimal...showed minimal in my combat log) he shrugged it off and left (without actually answering my question lol)

I run Marauser/Valk with power sigils and Rune of traveler...no condi dmg , only +15% duration (OOooo look out).

[Mydnyght.5026]

As a mesmer player I'm all for nerfing of the condi mesmer, but when the nerf hit power mesmer it surely feels undeserved.

[bravan.3876]

@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:ME: Boy im glad the subjectively OP claims and focus are finally not on DPS mirage anymore.

grabs popcorn

The only problem with power mirages (or mesmer in general) is superiority complex what gives stupid high dmg even when failing your burst combo and gives constant high pressure with all skills on crit and broken or lame stuff like retargeting skills (axe 3, illusionary ambush) on way to low cd and max range no animation instant dmg like mantra of pain. Scholar rune also could get another 6. boni.

I run a DPS GS + Axe/torch build. Traveler runes. No mantra or EM or IH. I do run Illusionary Ambush myself as it helps catch up to those who run, however i hate how it doesn't make you face the target upon teleporting, wasting a precious second or 2. Imo DPS mirage is in a decent place, esp compared to like 6+ months ago.

I will say I do love the de-target aspect of the class. I think thats what started me on the class.

No EM no IH? Means you run the conditrait on a power build?Tbh i prefer to fight a mesmer using a mantra over facing someone with illusionary ambush. And with axe in addition, maybe even another stealth you will be out of target most time of the fight. The de-targeting skills on axe and illusionary ambush have way too low cd atm for all the stuff they do. Even with doubled their cd it would still be broken and clearly is the most annoying mechanic to face in the game. In particular with GWs already not always proper working targeting. Ofc its even more lame on condi, you at least play power.

I was running IH, however I don't think I am getting anything out of it, and I wont use EM so the last trait is what I am stuck with lol (so its not by choice). Power axe, while not optimal, is highly enjoyable. Was dueling someone in WvW (chrono) who complained about getting 6-7 stack sof torment, even tho ai am running a "DPS" build. When I stated its built into my weps so I cant help it, and asked them to actually look at the damage (which would be minimal...showed minimal in my combat log) he shrugged it off and left (without actually answering my question lol)

I run Marauser/Valk with power sigils and Rune of traveler...no condi dmg , only +15% duration (OOooo look out).

I'm sure IH will give you more dmg then the conditrait when you proper use it. Axe is doing very well on power at least its good for duelling and roaming, i do not think its that good in conquest because of less mobility. The dmg is actually insane when it hits but the annoying parts are the retargeting skills. It is not fun to fight something that bursty you cannot attack 70-80% of the fight because no target. Fighting a power mesmer using illusionary ambush is already a pain without even axe.

[Sindrener.1592]

funny thing is, this guy has over 30k games played l o l

[Master Ketsu.4569]

@bravan.3876 said:

@blackgamma.1809 said:the fact that Mesmer has access to vigor at all is op. you literally have access to other evade mechanics and stealth with evade traits with less than 2 second cooldown.

condi mesmer is still strong, if not better now with sceptre buffs

Uhm what? Mesmer only has these active defense tools (when not running inspiration or chaos) and compared to a Rev or Warrior or Sword Weaver and some Ranger Builds (to make only few examples) which all can even facetank inbetween all their active defense tools the mesmer has even less invuln frames than these facetank classes. That goes at least for mirages not running retargeting skills and all none mirage mesmer builds. And these classes do not even run double energy sigil and adventure rune. Pls get informed before posting.

People seriously need to stop comparing block/evade/damage reduction to invuln. They are not even remotely the same thing.

[Tiah.3091]

First of all. I must say, that I play Mirage.Power mirage mostly, and I think that Mirage still needs nerf. Especialy condi mirage. Because compared to literally ANY non-Mirage build, that I've tried (which is a LOT), any Mirage build feels like an absolute God_mode.And there's single ultimate reason for this: "Mirage Cloak" dodge mechanic.It's not the Ambush skills, which are OP, it's not traits. Elusive Mind and Infinite Horizon are good (IH is much better though), but not broken.An ability to dodge, while doing literally anything else - that what is. Casting without interrupting, or more importantly - stomping and reviving. And, of course, you can dodge even while being stunned. Even without EM trait.

This is what's really OP on Mirage, and should be reworked/nerfed. At least do not allow to dodge while casting/stomping/reviving and while in stun. And that wouldn't even be "nerf" - that would be making it fair. Because no other class can do that.

About current nerfs: I can't say, that I feel a "huge difference", between now and then. But more importantly, even if I did - that's not the way, how it should be nerfed. Amount of dodges per second is perfectly fine. The dodge mechanics - the mirage cloak mechanics itself - THAT should be reworked.

[bravan.3876]

@"Tiah.3091" said:First of all. I must say, that I play Mirage.Power mirage mostly, and I think that Mirage still needs nerf. Especialy condi mirage. Because compared to literally ANY non-Mirage build, that I've tried (which is a LOT), any Mirage build feels like an absolute God_mode.And there's single ultimate reason for this: "Mirage Cloak" dodge mechanic.It's not the Ambush skills, which are OP, it's not traits. Elusive Mind and Infinite Horizon are good (IH is much better though), but not broken.An ability to dodge, while doing literally anything else - that what is. Casting without interrupting, or more importantly - stomping and reviving. And, of course, you can dodge even while being stunned. Even without EM trait.

This is what's really OP on Mirage, and should be reworked/nerfed. At least do not allow to dodge while casting/stomping/reviving and while in stun. And that wouldn't even be "nerf" - that would be making it fair. Because no other class can do that.

About current nerfs: I can't say, that I feel a "huge difference", between now and then. But more importantly, even if I did - that's not the way, how it should be nerfed. The mirage cloak mechanics itself should be reworked.

That pretty much means deleting one of two main features of the elite spec. Also dodging while still stunned is strong but it has counterplay its not broken or op its just a strong feature. A stunbreak on dodge is much worse even tho the trait got a nerf with exhaustion. Power mirages are easy to kill with almost everyhting when you know how to fight them and condi/hybrid mirages are not op and ez to play because of the dodge mechanic itself.

@Master Ketsu.4569 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@blackgamma.1809 said:the fact that Mesmer has access to vigor at all is op. you literally have access to other evade mechanics and stealth with evade traits with less than 2 second cooldown.

condi mesmer is still strong, if not better now with sceptre buffs

Uhm what? Mesmer only has these active defense tools (when not running inspiration or chaos) and compared to a Rev or Warrior or Sword Weaver and some Ranger Builds (to make only few examples) which all can even facetank inbetween all their active defense tools the mesmer has even less invuln frames than these facetank classes. That goes at least for mirages not running retargeting skills and all none mirage mesmer builds. And these classes do not even run double energy sigil and adventure rune. Pls get informed before posting.

People seriously need to stop comparing block/evade/damage reduction to invuln. They are not even remotely the same thing.

Who has done that? I was talking about endurance evades and weaponskill evades. I only said that there are classes with a lot of passive sustain and/or healing means facetank ability in addition to even more active defense tools than a mesmer/ mirage has (without retargeting skills and choas/ inspiration) and that without even using double energy and adventure rune.

[GoQ.1048]

@bravan.3876 said:

Who has done that?

you.

you are welcome.

[bravan.3876]

@shinta.8906 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

Who has done that?

you.

you are welcome.

No i didn't but nice try

[GoQ.1048]

@bravan.3876 said:and compared to a Rev or Warrior or Sword Weaver and some Ranger Builds (to make only few examples) which all can even facetank inbetween all their active defense tools the mesmer has even less invuln frames than these facetank classes.

implies all the named classes have invurln frames. weaver has not a single. rev has none. warrior and ranger builds vary a lot.

next one costs you

[bravan.3876]

@shinta.8906 said:

@bravan.3876 said:and compared to a Rev or Warrior or Sword Weaver and some Ranger Builds (to make only few examples) which all can even facetank inbetween all their active defense tools the

mesmer has even less invuln frames than these facetank classes

.

implies all the named classes have invurln frames. weaver has not a single. rev has none. warrior and ranger builds vary a lot.

next one costs you

My bad that needs to be evade frame, fixed that for you.

[DeadlySynz.3471]

Mesmer still needs a whole hoard of nerfs to be brought in line with other classes. Except for warrior and guardian, the rest classes have been hit hard and repeatedly to the point players even question whether it's even worth bringing them to the fight anymore. That is what needs to happen to mesmers. That point when the player is about to click their Mesmer to log in, they need to think to themselves "What's the point, the class has been rendered near useless". That is the level they need to be brought down to.

[Marxx.5021]

Condi mirage is god mode in PvP when someone knows how to play.

[PlagueParade.7942]

OP you must suck at being a mirage cause they are OP as kittens playing entangled with yarn. NERF INFINITE HORIZON ANET!!!

[Poledra Val.1490]

To give you an idea i have been told even 8 year olds play condie mirage and still thrash so called "good players"...aka mesmer is the most busted profession since the game went live in PvP. I long for the day when mesmer is just a normal profession without so many bloody broken mechanics.

[Ziggityzog.7389]

Hey gotta attract kids by putting in 2 cheese classes like Mes and Thief (main start toon at gw2 launch is a thief with my acct name). Gotta attract em with the low skill required classes where you can hide / run /evade / invul and still do mass damage. Say cheeeese.

[bravan.3876]

@Ziggityzog.7389 said:Hey gotta attract kids by putting in 2 cheese classes like Mes and Thief (main start toon at gw2 launch is a thief). Gotta attract em with the low skill required classes where you can hide / run /evade / invul and still do mass damage. Say cheeeese.

No these kids still play warrior, guard and ranger

[blackgamma.1809]

@bravan.3876 said:

@blackgamma.1809 said:the fact that Mesmer has access to vigor at all is op. you literally have access to other evade mechanics and stealth with evade traits with less than 2 second cooldown.

condi mesmer is still strong, if not better now with sceptre buffs

Uhm what? Mesmer only has these active defense tools (when not running inspiration or chaos) and compared to a Rev or Warrior or Sword Weaver and some Ranger Builds (to make only few examples) which all can even facetank inbetween all their active defense tools the mesmer has even less evade frames than these facetank classes. That goes at least for mirages not running retargeting skills and all none mirage mesmer builds. And these classes do not even run double energy sigil and adventure rune. Pls get informed before posting.

What traits/skills with less then 2 seconds cooldown?

Anet nerfed Adventure Rune already what was a good move, also the change to blurrend frenzy is somehow ok, even tho it is changed for all mesmer builds not only condi/hybrid mirages. Now another core trait got nerfed for active defense hurt all mesmer builds not only the op condi/hybrid which still has a lot of evades thanks to very low cooldown axe 3 and illusionary ambush. These 2 skills are the real issue when it comes to dodge frames of mesmer after all the other not needed nerfs to vigor.

perhaps i wasn't clear on the point i was trying to get across. so let me dumb down my language so you can understand

mesmer, still has access to a lot of tools, to avoid taking damage

[bravan.3876]

@blackgamma.1809 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@blackgamma.1809 said:the fact that Mesmer has access to vigor at all is op. you literally have access to other evade mechanics and stealth with evade traits with less than 2 second cooldown.

condi mesmer is still strong, if not better now with sceptre buffs

Uhm what? Mesmer only has these active defense tools (when not running inspiration or chaos) and compared to a Rev or Warrior or Sword Weaver and some Ranger Builds (to make only few examples) which all can even facetank inbetween all their active defense tools the mesmer has even less evade frames than these facetank classes. That goes at least for mirages not running retargeting skills and all none mirage mesmer builds. And these classes do not even run double energy sigil and adventure rune. Pls get informed before posting.

What traits/skills with less then 2 seconds cooldown?

Anet nerfed Adventure Rune already what was a good move, also the change to blurrend frenzy is somehow ok, even tho it is changed for all mesmer builds not only condi/hybrid mirages. Now another core trait got nerfed for active defense hurt all mesmer builds not only the op condi/hybrid which still has a lot of evades thanks to very low cooldown axe 3 and illusionary ambush. These 2 skills are the real issue when it comes to dodge frames of mesmer after all the other not needed nerfs to vigor.

perhaps i wasn't clear on the point i was trying to get across. so let me dumb down my language so you can understand

mesmer, still has access to a lot of tools, to avoid taking damage

And as already mentioned a lot of other classes with more passive sustain have the same or even higher amount of dodges and other active defense tools than any power mirage and any condi/hybrid not running retargeting skills without even using adventure and double energy. Only axe 3 and illusionary ambush need a big nerf in cds. If you have a problems with anything else (in terms of getting hits on the mesmer) than its a l2p issue. Maybe pimp your brain and l2read instead dumb down anything, will make yours and others life easier.

[blackgamma.1809]

@bravan.3876compare mesmer to other classes all you want. it literally doesn't change my argument at all nor do you address it at all. which you seem to disingenuously go out your own way to be offended by it