I want more challenge in this game

[Dashingsteel.3410]

@"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:I agree with Ayakaru on this one. Also I think he didn't word it quite right. This isn't really meant to make the story more challenging, insomuch as to give it a better structure.

Its something I've said before. The way that story missions handle failure is poorly designed, and it is unlike everything else in the entire game. To have you constantly corpse rush the boss with no true means of failure makes any progress a hollow victory, while also demeaning you on death. This also makes achievement hunting a pain, since a lot of achievements will fail on death, and in order to try again you have to restart the client and sit through several loading screens. The argument that people have for maintaining this system is essentially just self loathing about how bad they feel their own skill level is, and having this system just reinforces this problem.

I mentioned Cuphead last time, but I'll use a different example. You know how in Megaman, if you die at the boss the game puts you right outside the boss? Yeah, that. What GW2 story mode should have is a checkpoint room right before the boss, and if you are ever defeated the game will send you there and restart the boss. More importantly, it should reset every single achievement tied to that boss. Put an anvil in there so people can repair broken gear. That way, a player gets a limitless number of attempts to fight the boss, under the stipulation that they have to defeat the entire boss in one full stride. This system respects the boss, respects the player, and makes death meaningful while also cheap. There's a reason why it works everywhere else in the entire game.

If there are problems with certain fights being too difficult, then those fights themselves can be adjusted to be easier. It is much better than having a system that emotionally flogs you with every death.

This is a recipe for disaster. There are many players that won't be able to beat the boss in "one full stride" at the present difficulty of the Living Stories. Failing over and over is going to get old and lots of people will quit. I agree the corpse rush isn't optimal. Perhaps optional difficulty modes with rewards being better for increased difficulty.

[Linken.6345]

@Ayakaru.6583 said:

@"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:I agree with Ayakaru on this one. Also I think he didn't word it quite right. This isn't really meant to make the story more challenging, insomuch as to give it a better structure.

Its something I've said before. The way that story missions handle failure is poorly designed, and it is unlike everything else in the entire game. To have you constantly corpse rush the boss with no true means of failure makes any progress a hollow victory, while also demeaning you on death. This also makes achievement hunting a pain, since a lot of achievements will fail on death, and in order to try again you have to restart the client and sit through several loading screens. The argument that people have for maintaining this system is essentially just self loathing about how bad they feel their own skill level is, and having this system just reinforces this problem.

I mentioned Cuphead last time, but I'll use a different example. You know how in Megaman, if you die at the boss the game puts you right outside the boss? Yeah, that. What GW2 story mode should have is a checkpoint room right before the boss, and if you are ever defeated the game will send you there and restart the boss. More importantly, it should reset

every single achievement tied to that boss.

Put an anvil in there so people can repair broken gear. That way, a player gets a limitless number of attempts to fight the boss, under the stipulation that they have to defeat the entire boss in one full stride. This system respects the boss, respects the player, and makes death meaningful while also cheap. There's a reason why it works everywhere else in the entire game.

If there are problems with certain fights being too difficult, then those fights themselves can be adjusted to be easier. It is much better than having a system that emotionally flogs you with every death.

well, you worded it a lot better than I did.

In retrospect, I also like to think of Hollow Knight, now.Most of the bosses difficulty come from learning the patterns, and learning to adapt the bosses' various skills.In GW2 most of the bosses are identical, they stand still in one corner of the room, sometimes running away to another side. It's practically a target practice run. Any difficulty is not set out by handling their abilities, but through raw health sponge combat. Can you do more dps than the boss, or outheal the boss' dps? then you win.

and same with the Cuphead analogy, you get one try on a full boss run, no corpse running. And similarly, every boss has its own abilities and mechanics, rather than fighting the same boss over and over with a different skin/animation.

I am just reminded of the Broken King in the new raid wing. He seems to be an amalgamation of the Balthazar fight, and the space-woman from the fractals with her bouncy ball.

and I agree how annoying some of those achievements are. I can even remember a completely arbitrary one: the first Challenge in Tarir, where you have to defeat a set of dragon minions in one go without dying. But that achievement is entirely without purpose, because if you die, you lose the progress, but the entire fight resets anyway. So the only criteria is actually "clear it after listening to all the dialogue, or relisten to all the dialogue again".

Well cant say another event then broken king get harder the faster you burn them down.You do know that if you dps to fast more green spawn making you run around alot more right?

[maddoctor.2738]

@"Ayakaru.6583" said:they weren't very hard, no, but hard doesn't mean challenging.Challenging means that you have to prepare, and adapt.GW1 wasn't exactly friendly to 1 build does all (maybe at the end, once you had all the skills and heroes maxed)If you failed a boss, you had to change your tactics. I remember being stuck on the frozen gate for weeks because I couldn't deal with the dolyak shamans.

of course, once you've cleared the game and maxed the heroes, normal mode becomes easy mode, and hard more becomes your challenging content

After you get your "end game" build ready there isn't really any adapting needed in Guild Wars 1, you can play all content with the exact same composition including hard mode. There is little to no "adaption" needed in GW1 unless you want to speed run or low-man run content. There is way more adaption required in GW2 because you are alone and need to adapt your build to survive different encounters. In GW1 you play the same build regardless of your chosen profession (PVE-only skills ftw) and your (always the same) 7 heroes. You remember a "challenging" GW1 that you had to adapt to beat maps, I remember a snooze fest GW1 with my 7 heroes doing all the work while I went semi-afk.

[YoukiNeko.6047]

@"Ayakaru.6583" said:I mean, for real, why should we have to take Balthazar and Joko seriously, if we LITERALLY cannot lose to them?Every duel with a boss follows the same pattern, you put in half an effort, and you kill the boss with easy.Or you just laze away, half-minded, and the boss kills you a few times, but no worries, because THERE ARE NO FAIL CONDITIONS.There literally isn't a point to having a health bar, because once the health bar hits zero, it just goes back to full and you can keep fighting.Even if you're somehow so bad you keep dying until you're in your underwear, as long as you keep hitting that respawn button, you can kill Balthazar in your swim shorts.

So thats what I'm asking, why do we even care about the big villains if they're INCAPABLE of defeating us? We can literally keep nibbling away at them at our weakest, and they can't do anything to stop us.

And it's not just from a mechanical point of view, we're even immortal in the story.Apparantly, having died once, makes us immune to dying again, according to LS4-3, which didn't make any sense to me, at all.What, so we're incorporeal now? the beetles can't dig into us, lay eggs, and eat us up from the inside because our bodies have already been dead once before?

I am PLEADING you, anet, give the bosses some fail conditions, let them win for a change. Give us a reason to take their fights seriously?Otherwise we can all just go on vacation and send a swarm of Skritt and Quaggans to go kill the next boss.

The whole talk about Generation III bugs had me hoping there would be a story point where Joko unleashes the plague, and we lose, and we have to cleanse, purge, or downright burn down an entire society or something. To keep it from spreading.When we stormed that palace of his, and the gates broken, I thought "here it is".Only to have a bunch of ghosts say "we'll keep them contained".Then what was the whole point of the plague?There was never any risk if we only needed a few ghosts to end the plague.The plague was a sort of MacGuffin, but now it's just a background drop.

Give the villains some slack, anet, please, give us a reason to actually WANT to defeat them

Create a new alt and if you get him killed, delete him and start again with new one.Then you can call us when you finish the game without dying.

[Vayne.8563]

@Ayakaru.6583 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Overlord RainyDay.2084 said:

@Ayakaru.6583 said:

@"Eekasqueak.7850" said:Go play raids if you want challenge.

I already am, but I got into this game for the story.I played GW1 and GW2 because it has an amazing world, with amazing villains. And if you played GW1 you will know what Imean when I say how dumbed down GW2 has become.

At this point it has nothing to do with 'wanting challenge' anymore. But the most basic respect we're supposed to have for our villains.Instead, our characters are just gods who can even taunt the actual gods at this point.

I played GW1 too, and i have no idea what you're talking about. The big boss fights in story missions weren't exactly rough there either. I remember getting to the Lich to be much harder than actually killing him, Abbadon not being as threatening as he looked, and Shiro and the Great Destroyer being easily-cheesed pushovers. The final boss of EotN, built up over the entire game as a legendary foe, can be annihilated in a minute, with most of that time spent walking over to him so you can cast one single pain inverter.

If you wanted decent challenge you didn't get it in the story. You went to elite areas, or went vanquishing, and even then, most of the tougher vanquishes were only bad if you pulled too many or RNG gave you an obnoxious enemy comp to deal with. Speaking of taunting gods to their face, Abbadon in hard mode is not nearly as difficult as fighting a group of regular awakened with 3 cavaliers if you forgot to bring frozen soil.

Admittedly, it would be nice if there was an optional hard mode for story bosses, even if it was just "Allies don't res you, and enemy HP always resets to 100% if you die".

I agree with this. I didn't feel that any of the fights on Guild Wars 1 in story were particularly hard.

they weren't very hard, no, but hard doesn't mean challenging.Challenging means that you have to prepare, and adapt.GW1 wasn't exactly friendly to 1 build does all (maybe at the end, once you had all the skills and heroes maxed)If you failed a boss, you had to change your tactics. I remember being stuck on the frozen gate for weeks because I couldn't deal with the dolyak shamans.

of course, once you've cleared the game and maxed the heroes, normal mode becomes easy mode, and hard more becomes your challenging content

I almost never changed builds for bosses in Guild Wars 1. Maybe twice, if that. Shiro for example. But having to change builds is not any definition of challenging I've ever heard.

Guild Wars 1 was like a deck building game, so logically the challenge would have been in building your deck. Guild Wars 2 is an action combat game, so naturally the combat would be geared toward action combat. Saying it's not challenging isn't true....it's differently challenging.

For example, using a build I got off the build wiki (I think it was called PvX wiki) I was able to defeat Shiro in about 20 seconds at the end of Factions. I didn't make the build. I needed no skill at all. By the same token, having the right build in Guild Wars 2 without the skill itself doesn't do you much good...but it's a different kind of skill. People less used to twitch mechanics would find Guild Wars 2 more challenging. It's just a different type of challenge.

[juhani.5361]

You know, there was a game that tried this-- started with a "W" and ended with a "star." And, oddly enough, its company was owned by the same parent company that owns Anet. People have been citing it for at least a couple of years as an example for years of why you don't cater to the most skilled and hardcore members of gaming communities. As of yesterday, the analogy has been given very, very sharp teeth. Sharp getting shut down teeth.

I'd love to see difficulty levels. I really like this:

@"Scud.5067" said:Difficulty Select:

I'm Too Young To Die - Mobs have 25% less healthHurt Me Plenty - Normal modeUltra Violence - Mobs have 25% more health and do 20% more damageNightmare - Mobs have 50% more health, do 25% more damage and each instance has its own time limit.Ultra Nightmare - As Nightmare, but if you die, it resets the story to the beginning of the chain.

But I want, "I'm Too Pretty to Die. Please Be Nice Mr. Monster"-- mobs have 50% less health.

I've done the opening instances for all of the LW S3 & 4 stuff. I've only died on the stupid Forearm quest (want a challenge? do the prepare your troops thing using Blish's skills because you missed a popup message) and Kittenbot 6000-EFFYOO before unlocking the Sandswept Isles. Aside from Kittenbot, most of the boss battles haven't been too bad. They felt a lot easier than most of the PoF encounters. But kitten, they're long. Boring. And ridiculously annoying with stupid mechanics. That makes them feel harder than they probably are. Plus, if you don't zoom the camera out, you're going to go splat really fast from endless AOE whose limits you can't see.

I'd love to see settings similar to SWTOR KOTFEET's chapters or flashpoints. That way everyone can see the story and maybe actually enjoy (or tolerate) some of these encounters.

[maddoctor.2738]

@"Vayne.8563" said:I almost never changed builds for bosses in Guild Wars 1. Maybe twice, if that. Shiro for example. But having to change builds is not any definition of challenging I've ever heard.

Guild Wars 1 was like a deck building game, so logically the challenge would have been in building your deck. Guild Wars 2 is an action combat game, so naturally the combat would be geared toward action combat. Saying it's not challenging isn't true....it's differently challenging.

For example, using a build I got off the build wiki (I think it was called PvX wiki) I was able to defeat Shiro in about 20 seconds at the end of Factions. I didn't make the build. I needed no skill at all. By the same token, having the right build in Guild Wars 2 without the skill itself doesn't do you much good...but it's a different kind of skill. People less used to twitch mechanics would find Guild Wars 2 more challenging. It's just a different type of challenge.

I agree, planning in GW1 was important for very very few fights. Shiro with stance removal skills is a joke (or use Elementalist and the celestial skill) The rest of the game was beatable with the "meta" 7-hero team + a main character using 3 PVE-only skills, your own profession didn't really matter.Meanwhile in GW2 I always change my build, in one fight there is lots of conditions and I slot condition removal, in the other fight there is more projectiles so I get projectile deflection, in the other fight there is lots of knockdowns so I get more stability. And so on. I must say that GW2 already requires more pre-planning for each encounter than GW1 ever did. At least after EotN was released that turned character building into a joke.

[Overlord RainyDay.2084]

@Dashingsteel.3410 said:

@"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:I agree with Ayakaru on this one. Also I think he didn't word it quite right. This isn't really meant to make the story more challenging, insomuch as to give it a better structure.

Its something I've said before. The way that story missions handle failure is poorly designed, and it is unlike everything else in the entire game. To have you constantly corpse rush the boss with no true means of failure makes any progress a hollow victory, while also demeaning you on death. This also makes achievement hunting a pain, since a lot of achievements will fail on death, and in order to try again you have to restart the client and sit through several loading screens. The argument that people have for maintaining this system is essentially just self loathing about how bad they feel their own skill level is, and having this system just reinforces this problem.

I mentioned Cuphead last time, but I'll use a different example. You know how in Megaman, if you die at the boss the game puts you right outside the boss? Yeah, that. What GW2 story mode should have is a checkpoint room right before the boss, and if you are ever defeated the game will send you there and restart the boss. More importantly, it should reset

every single achievement tied to that boss.

Put an anvil in there so people can repair broken gear. That way, a player gets a limitless number of attempts to fight the boss, under the stipulation that they have to defeat the entire boss in one full stride. This system respects the boss, respects the player, and makes death meaningful while also cheap. There's a reason why it works everywhere else in the entire game.

If there are problems with certain fights being too difficult, then those fights themselves can be adjusted to be easier. It is much better than having a system that emotionally flogs you with every death.

This is a recipe for disaster. There are many players that won't be able to beat the boss in "one full stride" at the present difficulty of the Living Stories. Failing over and over is going to get old and lots of people will quit. I agree the corpse rush isn't optimal. Perhaps optional difficulty modes with rewards being better for increased difficulty.

If they had better checkpoints or even the "skip straight to boss" motes it would be less of an issue. If you knew you that if you got in over your head, you could leave, grab a friend and jump right back in, or even just take a break and come back later without doing the full 30-minute instance, people would be happier.

I definitely think having the achievements reset would be nice as well. There's so many ones I never went back to get because I didn't want to deal with redoing the whole mission if I slipped up at the end.

[Obtena.7952]

@Ayakaru.6583 said:

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:There's a 200+ post thread on this page suggesting Story Content be made

easier

. Who should ArenaNet listen to?

It literally can't be easier at this point because you can already clear everything with certainty.Any 'failure' or 'death' is rewarded with instant revival, while damaged mobs and bosses remain damaged.Repairing armour is free.Sometimes NPCs res you on the spot, sometimes not, very inconsistent.

What I'm getting at is, people asking for the game to get easier fail to say that it's already impossible to fail

Actually, I know lots of people that have a problem with some parts of the game, including story. You aren't being considerate of these people. If you want it harder, gimp yourself down in stats and go for it. It's easier to make it harder for yourself than it is for people to make it easier for themselves.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

@Eekasqueak.7850 said:Go play raids if you want challenge.

whats challenging about raids? the bosses are still dungeon level easy, except theres a time limit. lol big whoop.

[Majic.4801]

Fight smarter, not harder.

[jciardha.1936]

I’m fine with being able to respawn and pick up where I left off in a boss fight. Would you prefer going back to the bad old days of GW1, where if you died, you had to restart the entire story instance over again from the top?

[Ashen.2907]

@jciardha.1936 said:I’m fine with being able to respawn and pick up where I left off in a boss fight. Would you prefer going back to the bad old days of GW1, where if you died, you had to restart the entire story instance over again from the top?

I prefered that.

[Ayakaru.6583]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Ayakaru.6583 said:

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:There's a 200+ post thread on this page suggesting Story Content be made

easier

. Who should ArenaNet listen to?

It literally can't be easier at this point because you can already clear everything with certainty.Any 'failure' or 'death' is rewarded with instant revival, while damaged mobs and bosses remain damaged.Repairing armour is free.Sometimes NPCs res you on the spot, sometimes not, very inconsistent.

What I'm getting at is, people asking for the game to get easier fail to say that it's already impossible to fail

Actually, I know lots of people that have a problem with some parts of the game, including story. You aren't being considerate of these people. If you want it harder, kitten yourself down in stats and go for it. It's easier to make it harder for yourself than it is for people to make it easier for themselves.

see, thats the problem, giving a boss more health, or just cutting my own dps isn't gonna make the fight harder, just longer.attrition isn't a substitute for difficulty. We've seen that before, people asked for more difficult fights, so we got a few health sponge bosses.That's not right. Compare any random champion to the elites in the library. Every elite in the library had a unique ability you had to cope with.Regular champions on the other hand, just had 300% health, meaning you couldn't outDPS them alone.

[Aeolus.3615]

Balthazar was just like a filler, similiar plot to abadon revolt.

@Ayakaru.6583, u cant make mobs harder due how gw2 pve comunity works, man they even said HoT was super hard at the begging...Anet had to remove the resistance that destroyers had to fire skills, since players could not understand that, so anet removed that, so fire spells do damage fire mobs w/o effort.... like any other spelll.I kinda wish mobs could clean condies, aply condies, remove and convert boons from players.... but gw2 would end probably with no players.It is a simple game to be carried with gimmicks just liek diablo is when ur on torment lvl and your gear allows u to wipe instance easy, but here it is not gear doing that but the gimmick of builds and team comp.

@"Eekasqueak.7850" said:Go play raids if you want challenge.

Beating health sponges where most of aoe(only mechanics that mobs have.....) can be avoided doesnt seam that much of logical "hard content", and feels very artificial way to put a placebo in the game.

[Haishao.6851]

@Gehenna.3625 said:

@ChronosCosmos.9450 said:

@Ayakaru.6583 said:

@Eekasqueak.7850 said:Go play raids if you want challenge.

I already am, but I got into this game for the story.I played GW1 and GW2 because it has an amazing world, with amazing villains. And if you played GW1 you will know what Imean when I say how dumbed down GW2 has become.

At this point it has nothing to do with 'wanting challenge' anymore. But the most basic respect we're supposed to have for our villains.Instead, our characters are just gods who can even taunt the actual gods at this point.

Yeah, I feel you. GW1's story and characters were phenomenal. Shiro, Lich, Togo, Abbaddon, the 5 gods, Zaishen, and Heralds. Amazing. Eye of the north and the heroes had amazing backgrounds too.

Of course that could have to do with the story telling more than the encounter difficulty. And of course the class and combat system were much more clear and the game did have the trinity in it and was indeed group based. It's amazing what kind of difference the trinity can make to combat encounters. You just didn't go out on a mission without 2 healers and a tank to take the initial aggro (though admittedly minions often filled that role but the role was there).

GW1 didn't have trinity.There was no actual tanking class or mechanic. Tanking was done by exploiting max aggro range vs max attack distance which happened to be 1 step outside of aggro. People sent a character with damage avoiding skills to get beat up by the enemies, and everyone else stood at maximum distance, outside of the aggro bubble to attack from safety.

[Obtena.7952]

@Ayakaru.6583 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Ayakaru.6583 said:

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:There's a 200+ post thread on this page suggesting Story Content be made

easier

. Who should ArenaNet listen to?

It literally can't be easier at this point because you can already clear everything with certainty.Any 'failure' or 'death' is rewarded with instant revival, while damaged mobs and bosses remain damaged.Repairing armour is free.Sometimes NPCs res you on the spot, sometimes not, very inconsistent.

What I'm getting at is, people asking for the game to get easier fail to say that it's already impossible to fail

Actually, I know lots of people that have a problem with some parts of the game, including story. You aren't being considerate of these people. If you want it harder, kitten yourself down in stats and go for it. It's easier to make it harder for yourself than it is for people to make it easier for themselves.

see, thats the problem, giving a boss more health, or just cutting my own dps isn't gonna make the fight harder, just longer.attrition isn't a substitute for difficulty. We've seen that before, people asked for more difficult fights, so we got a few health sponge bosses.That's not right. Compare any random champion to the elites in the library. Every elite in the library had a unique ability you had to cope with.Regular champions on the other hand, just had 300% health, meaning you couldn't outDPS them alone.

... and Anet isn't going to abandon the market that sustains this game to make the game appeal to the fringe customers.

Besides, you aren't correct anyways. If you don't think the game gets harder with different choices on your character, you just haven't tried it. if you want harder, you can make it harder for yourself.

[Jumpin Lumpix.6108]

"I want more challenge in this game" - Well that's never going to happen. The suggestions that you handicap yourself and then play the game are hilarious as solutions as well. Why dont we just suggest that OP play the game with one hand while they're at it lol.

[Linken.6345]

@"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said:"I want more challenge in this game" - Well that's never going to happen. The suggestions that you handicap yourself and then play the game are hilarious as solutions as well. Why dont we just suggest that OP play the game with one hand while they're at it lol.

sure if s/he wants more challenge that will certainly do it.

[Obtena.7952]

@"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said:"I want more challenge in this game" - Well that's never going to happen. The suggestions that you handicap yourself and then play the game are hilarious as solutions as well. Why dont we just suggest that OP play the game with one hand while they're at it lol.

What makes you think that? If he wants it harder and has the capability to make it harder for himself, that doesn't sound ridiculous as all ... it's the BEST solution he has. Even if Anet were to make the game harder ... even a PART of it ... how long do you think he would have to wait to get it?

[Gehenna.3625]

@Haishao.6851 said:

@Gehenna.3625 said:

@ChronosCosmos.9450 said:

@Ayakaru.6583 said:

@"Eekasqueak.7850" said:Go play raids if you want challenge.

I already am, but I got into this game for the story.I played GW1 and GW2 because it has an amazing world, with amazing villains. And if you played GW1 you will know what Imean when I say how dumbed down GW2 has become.

At this point it has nothing to do with 'wanting challenge' anymore. But the most basic respect we're supposed to have for our villains.Instead, our characters are just gods who can even taunt the actual gods at this point.

Yeah, I feel you. GW1's story and characters were phenomenal. Shiro, Lich, Togo, Abbaddon, the 5 gods, Zaishen, and Heralds. Amazing. Eye of the north and the heroes had amazing backgrounds too.

Of course that could have to do with the story telling more than the encounter difficulty. And of course the class and combat system were much more clear and the game did have the trinity in it and was indeed group based. It's amazing what kind of difference the trinity can make to combat encounters. You just didn't go out on a mission without 2 healers and a tank to take the initial aggro (though admittedly minions often filled that role but the role was there).

GW1 didn't have trinity.There was no actual tanking class or mechanic. Tanking was done by exploiting max aggro range vs max attack distance which happened to be 1 step outside of aggro. People sent a character with damage avoiding skills to get beat up by the enemies, and everyone else stood at maximum distance, outside of the aggro bubble to attack from safety.

Which is why I said "a tank to take the initial aggro". It still was a tank role even though it wasn't a tank class with taunt mechanics as we know from other games. Regardless of what you call it though, GW1 had a different system and did have healers as well, which were vital pretty much everywhere. Call it tanks or not, someone had to take that initial aggro and stay alive. And having that system also allowed different type of combat encounters. And that's the main point I was making.

If I have to believe some of the people here who have raided in GW2, apparently the raid fights are pretty much the same type of thing as dungeon boss fights with a timer. That tells me that they are just not able to deliver more than what they have been in that sense and it's pretty much because of the combat system and classes that it is that way in my view.

[Pretty Pixie.8603]

@Ayakaru.6583 said:

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:There's a 200+ post thread on this page suggesting Story Content be made

easier

. Who should ArenaNet listen to?

It literally can't be easier at this point because you can already clear everything with certainty.Any 'failure' or 'death' is rewarded with instant revival, while damaged mobs and bosses remain damaged.Repairing armour is free.Sometimes NPCs res you on the spot, sometimes not, very inconsistent.

What I'm getting at is, people asking for the game to get easier fail to say that it's already impossible to fail

Remember the Caudacus fight in LS3? A lot of people were having huge problems with it. Being unable to complete an instance IS failure. As a six year vet I don’t think that boss was particularly hard, even before the nerf, but I’m under no illusion that everyone is equally experienced in this game. What is easy for you might be insurmountable for someone else.

[Sugar Min.5834]

@Menadena.7482 said:sigh

Another 'I need a challenge' thread. You can come up with plenty of challenges. Like roll an alt and walk to Orr as soon as you rez. Or take on what is meant to be a group boss (that nobody does because it has a high failure rate) singlehandedly.

This is part of why so many things in the world now are so kitteningly ridiculous to beat.

I know right? Isn't it common sense that NOT everyone has the same play skill level? So what TC suggesting is to punish those who are not as good as him? And, how exactly does these penalties on other players benefit TC? Many have complained before that certain chapters in the story are already too challenging, but not for TC of course, and making them even harder or imposing penalties on failed attempts will drive players away, especially those new comers.

TC if you think the story bosses are 'too easy' for you, like many have said before, go fight the boss with low gears or even bare-handed.

Story mode is essential to play or complete, at least the first time, in order to unlock new events, maps, skins, etc. This mode is for everyone and not solely for players who think everything is too easy for them. Really.

[Squirrel.6318]

@Overlord RainyDay.2084 said:

@Ayakaru.6583 said:

@"Eekasqueak.7850" said:Go play raids if you want challenge.

I already am, but I got into this game for the story.I played GW1 and GW2 because it has an amazing world, with amazing villains. And if you played GW1 you will know what Imean when I say how dumbed down GW2 has become.

At this point it has nothing to do with 'wanting challenge' anymore. But the most basic respect we're supposed to have for our villains.Instead, our characters are just gods who can even taunt the actual gods at this point.

I played GW1 too, and i have no idea what you're talking about. The big boss fights in story missions weren't exactly rough there either. I remember getting to the Lich to be much harder than actually killing him, Abbadon not being as threatening as he looked, and Shiro and the Great Destroyer being easily-cheesed pushovers. The final boss of EotN, built up over the entire game as a legendary foe, can be annihilated in a minute, with most of that time spent walking over to him so you can cast one single pain inverter.

If you wanted decent challenge you didn't get it in the story. You went to elite areas, or went vanquishing, and even then, most of the tougher vanquishes were only bad if you pulled too many or RNG gave you an obnoxious enemy comp to deal with. Speaking of taunting gods to their face, Abbadon in hard mode is not nearly as difficult as fighting a group of regular awakened with 3 cavaliers if you forgot to bring frozen soil.

Admittedly, it would be nice if there was an optional hard mode for story bosses, even if it was just "Allies don't res you, and enemy HP always resets to 100% if you die".To be fair those bosses were much harder and actual "EPIC" boss battles than the ones we have in GW2. They were exactly the right amount of difficult we need in GW2 story.

Even just the regular missions were difficult, later on, I was pretty good I had 2500 hours, but even I used wiki all the time. Which mobs to be careful of, this and that. In GW2, you can literally just run in, if you die, restart, do it again, restart do it again, i've never failed in GW2, but in GW1 i've failed a mission or dungeon maybe at least hundred times over all seven or eight of my characters.

I think the last mission in HoT was the best one so far, in terms of challenge.

[Jumpin Lumpix.6108]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said:"I want more challenge in this game" - Well that's never going to happen. The suggestions that you handicap yourself and then play the game are hilarious as solutions as well. Why dont we just suggest that OP play the game with one hand while they're at it lol.

What makes you think that? If he wants it harder and has the capability to make it harder for himself, that doesn't sound ridiculous as all ... it's the BEST solution he has.

Even

if Anet were to make the game harder ... even a PART of it ... how long do you think he would have to wait to get it?

Because a lot of the psychology associated with enjoying playing a difficult game is by comparing your ability to beat said content relative to everyone else. If you independently put a handicap on yourself then you're playing in a vacuum and you might as well blindfold yourself or come up with some ridiculous gimmick to make it harder. Meanwhile everyone else is playing it at full effort, and when you compare what you've accomplished to others its the same, and means nothing relative to other players, thus reducing the motivation and joy associated with playing difficult content.