I want more challenge in this game

[Shikaru.7618]

Id be interested in another layer to the challenge. I want more rewards that are skillgated or current expensive rewards that have skillgate alternatives. Eg. Mystic tribute or 77 clovers for x number of LI or boss kp.

[SunTzu.4513]

I see it more like '' i want more enjoyable and fun encounter/difficulty''. Especially story bosses are more annoying than hard. Big hp pools paired with tons of aoe carpets packed together with a more or less cluncky mechanik are anything but not hard to beat. Imo you can beat any (ls) story boss just by using your aa and for some rare encounter using your utility skills. I have more fun in soloing bountys or stuff like this than doing the story bosses.

[Ashantara.8731]

@"Ayakaru.6583" said:Here's one idea, to make the meta's more exciting.Close off the meta area, if you die, you die.That way, people will actually have to work together, and keep each other up, rather than "I'm not rezzing you, there's a waypoint down the hall".

If someone is down, yes, then help them back up. But rezzing a dead player takes forever, therefore the use of the nearest WP is a must-do.

Your suggestion is not going to help to make things better, on the contrary. Also, I don't get what it has to do with the topic.

[Torolan.5816]

I recently read that gamers in general are not majorly young males anymore, but more middle aged or even silver gamers. And the mobile games market overtook both the PC and consoles as ways to play, so casual play for everyone now is the name of the game. I am not terribly surprised that mobiles overtook consoles to be honest, the constant urging to be online and pay for this and that as extra cost is contrary to the plug and play nature of consoles, but I was surprised to actually see in numbers what people were always saying about the PC too.

What I want to say with this is that the age of challenge is probably over when your average players lacks reflexes or time to master top performances.

[Dashingsteel.3410]

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:"I want more challenge in this game" - Well that's never going to happen. The suggestions that you handicap yourself and then play the game are hilarious as solutions as well. Why dont we just suggest that OP play the game with one hand while they're at it lol.

What makes you think that? If he wants it harder and has the capability to make it harder for himself, that doesn't sound ridiculous as all ... it's the BEST solution he has.

Even

if Anet were to make the game harder ... even a PART of it ... how long do you think he would have to wait to get it?

Because a lot of the psychology associated with enjoying playing a difficult game is by comparing your ability to beat said content relative to everyone else. If you independently put a handicap on yourself then you're playing in a vacuum and you might as well blindfold yourself or come up with some ridiculous gimmick to make it harder. Meanwhile everyone else is playing it at full effort, and when you compare what you've accomplished to others its the same, and means nothing relative to other players, thus reducing the motivation and joy associated with playing difficult content.

So we need harder story content so that a certain section of players can assuage their fragile egos? They must feel superior to others to enjoy the game? So it's not really about hard content(as the player could handicap themselves to create hard conditions) but rather about being able to say "Look at me! Look at me! I'm better than you!"

We already have competitive modes in the game.

[googel.3278]

they need more challenging skins so that milking players would be easy, moar money

[Ayakaru.6583]

@Dashingsteel.3410 said:

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:"I want more challenge in this game" - Well that's never going to happen. The suggestions that you handicap yourself and then play the game are hilarious as solutions as well. Why dont we just suggest that OP play the game with one hand while they're at it lol.

What makes you think that? If he wants it harder and has the capability to make it harder for himself, that doesn't sound ridiculous as all ... it's the BEST solution he has.

Even

if Anet were to make the game harder ... even a PART of it ... how long do you think he would have to wait to get it?

Because a lot of the psychology associated with enjoying playing a difficult game is by comparing your ability to beat said content relative to everyone else. If you independently put a handicap on yourself then you're playing in a vacuum and you might as well blindfold yourself or come up with some ridiculous gimmick to make it harder. Meanwhile everyone else is playing it at full effort, and when you compare what you've accomplished to others its the same, and means nothing relative to other players, thus reducing the motivation and joy associated with playing difficult content.

So we need harder story content so that a certain section of players can assuage their fragile egos? They must feel superior to others to enjoy the game? So it's not really about hard content(as the player could handicap themselves to create hard conditions) but rather about being able to say "Look at me! Look at me! I'm better than you!"

We already have competitive modes in the game.

No?If you read any of the discussion at all you would've known that we want harder bosses because we can't them serious as villains if they're as weak as average skritt.

It has nothing to do with ego, we got raids for that

[Ayakaru.6583]

@Ashantara.8731 said:

@"Ayakaru.6583" said:Here's one idea, to make the meta's more exciting.Close off the meta area, if you die, you die.That way, people will actually have to work together, and keep each other up, rather than "I'm not rezzing you, there's a waypoint down the hall".

If someone is down, yes, then help them back up. But rezzing a dead player takes

forever

, therefore the use of the nearest WP is a must-do.

Your suggestion is not going to help to make things better, on the contrary. Also, I don't get what it has to do with the topic.

If you make rezzing impossible during the meta end fights, people will be more thankful (and dependent) of support classes, healing, and pick ups from being downed.Thus a challenge comes into play where you prepare your squad, and have to actively not die, since a lot of people run glass build because they know they can just res down the hall and run back into the fight making death pointless altogether

[Linken.6345]

@Ayakaru.6583 said:

@Ashantara.8731 said:

@Ayakaru.6583 said:Here's one idea, to make the meta's more exciting.Close off the meta area, if you die, you die.That way, people will actually have to work together, and keep each other up, rather than "I'm not rezzing you, there's a waypoint down the hall".

If someone is down, yes, then help them back up. But rezzing a dead player takes

forever

, therefore the use of the nearest WP is a must-do.

Your suggestion is not going to help to make things better, on the contrary. Also, I don't get what it has to do with the topic.

If you make rezzing impossible during the meta end fights, people will be more thankful (and dependent) of support classes, healing, and pick ups from being downed.Thus a challenge comes into play where you prepare your squad, and have to actively not die, since a lot of people run glass build because they know they can just res down the hall and run back into the fight making death pointless altogether

Yea it will be what the hell healer why dident you heal me you damn f..... in chat that will so much better.

[Gehenna.3625]

@Ayakaru.6583 said:

@Dashingsteel.3410 said:

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:"I want more challenge in this game" - Well that's never going to happen. The suggestions that you handicap yourself and then play the game are hilarious as solutions as well. Why dont we just suggest that OP play the game with one hand while they're at it lol.

What makes you think that? If he wants it harder and has the capability to make it harder for himself, that doesn't sound ridiculous as all ... it's the BEST solution he has.

Even

if Anet were to make the game harder ... even a PART of it ... how long do you think he would have to wait to get it?

Because a lot of the psychology associated with enjoying playing a difficult game is by comparing your ability to beat said content relative to everyone else. If you independently put a handicap on yourself then you're playing in a vacuum and you might as well blindfold yourself or come up with some ridiculous gimmick to make it harder. Meanwhile everyone else is playing it at full effort, and when you compare what you've accomplished to others its the same, and means nothing relative to other players, thus reducing the motivation and joy associated with playing difficult content.

So we need harder story content so that a certain section of players can assuage their fragile egos? They must feel superior to others to enjoy the game? So it's not really about hard content(as the player could handicap themselves to create hard conditions) but rather about being able to say "Look at me! Look at me! I'm better than you!"

We already have competitive modes in the game.

No?If you read any of the discussion

at all

you would've known that we want harder bosses because we can't them serious as villains if they're as weak as average skritt.

It has nothing to do with ego, we got raids for that

Well it's of course factually false that story bosses are as weak as the average skritt. As a casual noob I can kill an average skritt in a couple of seconds and there's no way I can manage that. I assume that you're just using it as a matter of speech but in this sort of discussion I feel that doing this is a detriment to the discussion.

I get that the story bosses are too easy for you and that thereby you do not take them seriously. However, I think that puts you in a rather small minority because it seems to me, and this is of course just my feeling, that most people either don't find them that easy or don't mind or care.

I do admit to being a bit surprised about how dismissive you are towards raids here as that is considered the hardest content in the game, although when I hear raiders speak of these boss fights it's apparently just dungeon bosses with a timer on it.

Personally I think a hard mode version of the story bosses could be an elegant solution, however, there is one problem. How hard should hard mode be? If it's very hard then very few people will be able to complete them and then it will become an ego thing for those few and a frustration for many others. So if they don't quite make them as hard, there is likely to be another post like this saying that hard mode is just as easy as killing the average skritt ;)

And there is a very important principle I'd like to discuss with reference to that. I phrase this principle as follows: "when you move, the borders move with you". So if they moved towards a hard mode version, it won't be long before people want a super hard mode version etc. So a step in a direction often leads to more steps or they are at least requested then. For ArenaNet, this is something they have to consider as well. What will happen if we do add a hard mode to story bosses? For example, if the next expansion has this built in, how many people will then come here and complain and complain that this should be done retroactively etc.

So now you've raised a point which I think is a fair point, but in the context of the game I'm not sure if ArenaNet will want to go that way. However, if they were to go that way they might open a few new cans of worms and get more negativity and complaints than they are now and so they are not just committing to a change or something new but all the consequences that come with implementing such a thing. And sure, you can't play safe all the time, but there has to be a significant enough chance that it will be considered a positive change and especially if hard mode bosses would drop better loot, which is fair, then also the complaints of the more casual players will come about that. And the problem there is that these casual players are probably a very important part of the player base.

However, if there is enough interest and they balance it right, then it could be a good thing. Those are some big ifs though...

[Einsof.1457]

Agree with OP 100%. To this day the most satisfying gameplay experience I have had in Guild Wars 2 was beating Mordremoth solo during my HoT run. That was epic. That fight had perfect balance and challenge. I have amazing memories because it was challenging and I actually felt something. I have basically no memorable PoF experiences.

[Dante.1763]

@Einsof.1457 said:Agree with OP 100%. To this day the most satisfying gameplay experience I have had in Guild Wars 2 was beating Mordremoth solo during my HoT run. That was epic. That fight had perfect balance and challenge. I have amazing memories because it was challenging and I actually felt something. I have basically no memorable PoF experiences.

and for a much larger population of the game HoT was to hard for them which is why ANET nerfed it twice, and then went the PoF Route with the next expansion. Hell look at the Eater of Souls battle and the complaints it got, and still gets. They can see the metrics for who clears what content, and the want the vast majority of players to clear the story. So, unless having a hardmode is an option it shouldnt be hard from the get go.

[Kumouta.4985]

I'd also love to see a bit more challenge. The most fun i've had in PvE in a while was with killing the golem boss in the olmakhan place without dying & within the time limit on the day that that LS was released (idk if it's nerfed now, ppl complain all the time and remotely challenging bosses get turned into moas (think caudecus))and being rez-able within story battles should really be toned down to only be possible once or twice before it resets. Just rushing a god and dying over and over but still winning is just completely stupid. Maybe add an infantile mode that gives you 3k toughness or smth if someone dies ten times in the same story instance.

[Obtena.7952]

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:"I want more challenge in this game" - Well that's never going to happen. The suggestions that you handicap yourself and then play the game are hilarious as solutions as well. Why dont we just suggest that OP play the game with one hand while they're at it lol.

What makes you think that? If he wants it harder and has the capability to make it harder for himself, that doesn't sound ridiculous as all ... it's the BEST solution he has.

Even

if Anet were to make the game harder ... even a PART of it ... how long do you think he would have to wait to get it?

Because a lot of the psychology associated with enjoying playing a difficult game is by comparing your ability to beat said content relative to everyone else. If you independently put a handicap on yourself then you're playing in a vacuum and you might as well blindfold yourself or come up with some ridiculous gimmick to make it harder. Meanwhile everyone else is playing it at full effort, and when you compare what you've accomplished to others its the same, and means nothing relative to other players, thus reducing the motivation and joy associated with playing difficult content.

Sure ... but what does that have to do with the fact that this game is too easy for him? There isn't a difficulty knob he can turn up, so that's his option.

[sorudo.9054]

play raids with just your weapons, white ones.there, a challenge to overcome, you can even do this against story bosses.

[Linken.6345]

@sorudo.9054 said:play raids with just your weapons, white ones.there, a challenge to overcome, you can even do this against story bosses.

can make a alt get a low drop like level 2-5 white weapons to make it even harder.

[maddoctor.2738]

@"Dashingsteel.3410" said:as the player could handicap themselves to create hard conditions

You cannot create complex/interesting mechanics by handicapping yourself. All you do is make the encounter frustrating, not challenging or fun. Which is why this suggestion I've read a lot on these forums: "use white gear and will become hard!" is pointless.

[Moonyeti.3296]

@Ayakaru.6583 said:

@Eekasqueak.7850 said:Go play raids if you want challenge.

I already am, but I got into this game for the story.I played GW1 and GW2 because it has an amazing world, with amazing villains. And if you played GW1 you will know what Imean when I say how dumbed down GW2 has become.

At this point it has nothing to do with 'wanting challenge' anymore. But the most basic respect we're supposed to have for our villains.Instead, our characters are just gods who can even taunt the actual gods at this point.

I played GW1, I don't know what you mean. GW1 story had plenty of ways to cheese the story missions as well. Shiro in Factions was probably the easiest final encounter in the franchise because it was so easy to cheese him with gimmick builds. Other places where story wasn't so front and center was where the real challenge of GW1 was. I see the same with GW2, the more challenging content is in the raids and upper fractals, not the main story missions.

[Gehenna.3625]

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@"Dashingsteel.3410" said:as the player could handicap themselves to create hard conditions

You cannot create complex/interesting mechanics by handicapping yourself. All you do is make the encounter frustrating, not challenging or fun. Which is why this suggestion I've read a lot on these forums: "use white gear and will become hard!" is pointless.

Well if your point is that this game has no interesting mechanics, then you can blame the combat system for that. And because it's so integral to what makes this game what it is, I don't see that changing. As long as this game is made around dodging & ressing with the downed state and there are no defined roles like in trinity games, there is little else they can do. This game is just not set up for interesting/complex mechanics.

And people here are asking for things like death meaning having to restart the fight and such. That has nothing to do with complex mechanics and will make it entirely tedious and frustrating for many more players.

[sorudo.9054]

compared to GW, GW2 is baby easy.i tried to get back in GW, i was slaughtered so easily i didn't even know how i could lose that fast, in GW2 it's the exact opposite.

[maddoctor.2738]

@"Gehenna.3625" said:Well if your point is that this game has no interesting mechanics, then you can blame the combat system for that.

That's not my point at all. I find the mechanics, especially of the more recent bosses to be good enough and interesting. I was merely responding to the that comment about handicapping myself if I want difficulty. "Use white gear!", "play dungeons at their intended level!", "do 5-bear bow ranger dungeon runs!", "do naked fractal runs!" and similar other ways to handicap yourself in order to increase the difficulty. That's a dumb way to increase to increase the difficulty, because no matter what YOU do as a player, the mechanics won't change. Sure if fight a Moa in Queensdale naked and unarmed as a Thief, it might become a hard fight. But it won't be an interesting/fun fight. That's my point, aimed at those who want the difficulty lowered, so those that want a higher difficulty can gimp themselves to get difficult content.

[Healix.5819]

@sorudo.9054 said:compared to GW, GW2 is baby easy.i tried to get back in GW, i was slaughtered so easily i didn't even know how i could lose that fast, in GW2 it's the exact opposite.

GW1 can be impossible if you try to play it casually with a random build, or a joke that you can practically AFK through on hard mode with the meta hero team. GW2 is similar, in that it can be a joke as a necromancer or dodge or die on an elementalist.

[maddoctor.2738]

@"sorudo.9054" said:compared to GW, GW2 is baby easy.i tried to get back in GW, i was slaughtered so easily i didn't even know how i could lose that fast, in GW2 it's the exact opposite.

I went back to GW just today. Fired up Domain of Anguish and went semi afk at it, watching youtube on my second monitor while "playing", which means letting my heroes do all the work. And obviously no need for a group with other people either. I think there is a huge misunderstanding about the difficulty of GW. GW2 requires an actual group of humans do play the "endgame", in GW it was all an easy solo experience. Maybe I had well built Heroes and didn't notice this "challenge" in GW.

Side note: talking about after Eye of the North was released, that made even professions pointless. Of course much earlier you couldn't solo everything, because for example Henchmen aren't allowed in the Underworld. That stopped being the case when they allowed 7-hero teams.

[Gehenna.3625]

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@"Gehenna.3625" said:Well if your point is that this game has no interesting mechanics, then you can blame the combat system for that.

That's not my point at all. I find the mechanics, especially of the more recent bosses to be good enough and interesting. I was merely responding to the that comment about handicapping myself if I want difficulty. "Use white gear!", "play dungeons at their intended level!", "do 5-bear bow ranger dungeon runs!", "do naked fractal runs!" and similar other ways to handicap yourself in order to increase the difficulty. That's a dumb way to increase to increase the difficulty, because no matter what YOU do as a player, the mechanics won't change. Sure if fight a Moa in Queensdale naked and unarmed as a Thief, it might become a hard fight. But it won't be an interesting/fun fight. That's my point, aimed at those who want the difficulty lowered, so those that want a higher difficulty can kitten themselves to get difficult content.

Sure but if the fights are interesting enough but lack the challenge, going into it with lesser gear will increase the challenge level of beating the fight. So why wouldn't it be fun if the mechanics are fine and you just make it harder because you equip lesser gear?

Tell me, if the mechanics are fine, then what is the problem exactly?

[Ashen.2907]

When I want challenge from a game I want encounters that test the limits of my character's abilities, at his best, while my own abilities as a player are also stretched. Self handicapping, by not using my character to his full capacity (such as by not using his best gear), does not fulfill that desire for challenge.