I'm leary about this WvW change...

[Skeletor.9360]

Why?So far every single design change other than pure bug fixes I have honestly absolutely hated - not dislike but truly despised.They got rid of the water in WvW. Hated that. Just about quit.They did the april 1st things...No choices...just a day with playing with a forced annoyance - hated it.Remember the PVE content and poisonous monsters that spawned around a tower? - Ugh Universally hated.Desert maps - first ALL of them...OMG terrible.Still now 1 is around - still 1/3rd terrible.Oh yeah used to be able to claim stuff in my 1 man guild....gone

OK so could this be the first change I might not hate?

So how does this work if I'm in a 1 man guild only?My ideal change would be to queue for a WvW fight and be put onto a server that had even teams (numbers). Will that happen if I stay solo? Or will I end up on an underpopulated server getting steam rolled over and over because our server has 10 guys on it and the other 2 have 70. True story! Man did that suck....and I had to pay to move. Just to have fair competition.

Further are you going to dump all new and pugs on one server while the other two are organized wvw guild servers? Would not be surprised by past "updates".

[Justine.6351]

The change to quaggan lake was the single best change to the alpine borderlands. And you know what? It still has a lot of water in it...

[Strider Pj.2193]

And you're right. Having to endure a whole day (2 total in two years) of an April fools prank. SHAME ON THEM!!!

those cruel overlords...

[Sovereign.1093]

gw2 wvw is based on population and player psychology. these are affected by the outcome of the matchup which is a combination of ppt and ppk. so, if things going well, your server will slowly get many people who are attracted to the ppt ppk if it is open. but the inverse happens if the ppt and ppk is going down. however, if your server has a good community with a stubborn leadership willing to sponge the negative ppt ppk, it will hold on, and these are the good guilds who fight despite the odds. so if your server has these good guilds - stable in mind and regular in play time you will not lose that much people and slowly you might get better ppt ppk because of skill growth learned from those good guilds. however, if those good guilds or their leadership is bullied or shamed because of their ways, they will move on, and so the players who like them will disappear too.

it's not really about the change of skill and build and stuff, but more on how the good guilds feel. and how the ppt ppk affects them, if you have them. or how the ppt ppk affects your herd if many.

i mean, it's like system one and two. one of which is your auto response, and one is where you actually think it through. if you let all these changes affect you just like that without having thought about it for at least 7 times, then you're probably just acting based on emotion. i know that feeling, i did quit a lot of times too. but it's been a long time, and got irl experience. i know that games change, - i play multiple games now to cover my gamer's lust. and i know someday gw2 might disappear, or get better and gain more numbers and probably get balanced.

all in all, what you think and is may not be the same and some may or may not share your thinking, op.

me for example, my builds and synergy of group gets nerfed every patch, and yet we strive despite being few to excell and get lots of kills. my gut tells me players dont try and err anymore. they dont experiment and try to figure how to def to fight to siege or to play the wvw as a whole and so the qq. you can't enjoy this game without working with others and without blocking the trolls.

tldr. try and err combination of builds. follow your instincts - you don't have to be forced to play if you don't like. find some buddies to tag along; they make the game more fun and maybe you can play other games together too.

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

"the need of the many outweigh the need of the 1 in a guild by thyselves"

Can't cater to everyone. Not everyone will be happy. The sooner people realize this, the better their lives will be.

[mindcircus.1506]

Imagine that... a WvW player complaining about changes.This never happens.

[SkyShroud.2865]

According to the information given thus far.

The new system will create servers by using play hours of individuals, guilds and alliances. This means that coverage is not taken into consideration though dev mentioned they are discussing on how to deal with this. Also, skill level is not taken into consideration which means there is a possibility where a server of newbies will fight against a server of vet with the obvious outcome of vet beating the crap out of the newbies. Furthermore, alliance will be stacked with skilled players only as show thus far base on the stacked servers. Newbies are unwanted. Guilds that refuse to stack would likely have to play with newbies and get demolished for their decision while the rest of the wvw community will trash talk those guilds and continue to boost their ego of trashing newbies.

What mentioned are facts followed by logical assumption base on current wvwers' behaviors shown so far.

[Sovereign.1093]

@SkyShroud.2865 said:According to the information given thus far.

The new system will create servers by using play hours of individuals, guilds and alliances. This means that coverage is not taken into consideration though dev mentioned they are discussing on how to deal with this. Also, skill level is not taken into consideration which means there is a possibility where a server of newbies will fight against a server of vet with the obvious outcome of vet beating the crap out of the newbies. Furthermore, alliance will be stacked with skilled players only as show thus far base on the stacked servers. Newbies are unwanted. Guilds that refuse to stack would likely have to play with newbies and get demolished for their decision while the rest of the wvw community will trash talk those guilds and continue to boost their ego of trashing newbies.

What mentioned are facts followed by logical assumption base on current wvwers' behaviors shown so far.

at best if still 7 day a week match, anet can average the play time activity of each server and provide the average population per server.

which is why i really support the reset servers.every so often.

they can allow themselves 10% plus the average to give space for error.

[Garrus.7403]

@"Skeletor.9360" said:Why?So far every single design change other than pure bug fixes I have honestly absolutely hated - not dislike but truly despised.They got rid of the water in WvW. Hated that. Just about quit.They did the april 1st things...No choices...just a day with playing with a forced annoyance - hated it.Remember the PVE content and poisonous monsters that spawned around a tower? - Ugh Universally hated.Desert maps - first ALL of them...OMG terrible.Still now 1 is around - still 1/3rd terrible.Oh yeah used to be able to claim stuff in my 1 man guild....gone

OK so could this be the first change I might not hate?

So how does this work if I'm in a 1 man guild only?My ideal change would be to queue for a WvW fight and be put onto a server that had even teams (numbers). Will that happen if I stay solo? Or will I end up on an underpopulated server getting steam rolled over and over because our server has 10 guys on it and the other 2 have 70. True story! Man did that suck....and I had to pay to move. Just to have fair competition.

Further are you going to dump all new and pugs on one server while the other two are organized wvw guild servers? Would not be surprised by past "updates".

You said you play only wvw in the p2win thread. If you hate all the changes in the game and you have no fun why do you not stop playing? Do you think if you create a complaint thread everyday anything will change?

[Skeletor.9360]

@Garrus.7403 said:

@"Skeletor.9360" said:Why?So far every single design change other than pure bug fixes I have honestly absolutely hated - not dislike but truly despised.They got rid of the water in WvW. Hated that. Just about quit.They did the april 1st things...No choices...just a day with playing with a forced annoyance - hated it.Remember the PVE content and poisonous monsters that spawned around a tower? - Ugh Universally hated.Desert maps - first ALL of them...OMG terrible.Still now 1 is around - still 1/3rd terrible.Oh yeah used to be able to claim stuff in my 1 man guild....gone

OK so could this be the first change I might not hate?

So how does this work if I'm in a 1 man guild only?My ideal change would be to queue for a WvW fight and be put onto a server that had even teams (numbers). Will that happen if I stay solo? Or will I end up on an underpopulated server getting steam rolled over and over because our server has 10 guys on it and the other 2 have 70. True story! Man did that suck....and I had to pay to move. Just to have fair competition.

Further are you going to dump all new and pugs on one server while the other two are organized wvw guild servers? Would not be surprised by past "updates".

You said you play only wvw in the p2win thread. If you hate all the changes in the game and you have no fun why do you not stop playing? Do you think if you create a complaint thread everyday anything will change?

I did for a very long time.I came back and find the game in even a worse state.The rest of the world agrees with me except the few fans that visit these boards.Keep saying the game is great...keep saying it as the servers go down for the last time or you get bored because there is nobody playing anymore.

Also...not opposed to changes. But how about doing changes that are asked for instead of making changes in a complete vacuum.Here is just 1.Make its so its not easier to attack a structure than to defend it for example.

[Skeletor.9360]

Sounds like...yup another "update" I won't like. It will be at some break point organized hardcore guilds against pugs.It will accelerate further the games death. This game was so good when it came out. Really a shame to watch it be managed as it has.

[Babytater.6803]

@Skeletor.9360 Do you have any update that you like for WvW? Sounds like this is more of an attitude problem than an Anet problem. Why are you still playing if you hate it so much?

[Skeletor.9360]

Yeah the consume all option on stacks and the fact you can now fire siege without targeting the ground. Neither an expansion. There have been several small things they have done. But really I'm not alone on this hate list...although the water removal probably bothered me more than others because I used the water a bunch as a tactic that doesn't work anymore because the water is an obstacle now instead of a different environment.

[subversiontwo.7501]

@"Skeletor.9360" said:So how does this work if I'm in a 1 man guild only?My ideal change would be to queue for a WvW fight and be put onto a server that had even teams (numbers). Will that happen if I stay solo? Or will I end up on an underpopulated server getting steam rolled over and over because our server has 10 guys on it and the other 2 have 70. True story! Man did that suck....and I had to pay to move. Just to have fair competition.

You (how it likely will be)If you are a one man guild what the change will do is give you less control over where you end up and likely make you get pinged around between different constellations every 8 weeks. The system will likely roll the big pieces first and the smallest pieces last as filler. That's the gist of it.

How it may feel (as opposed to how will be)If you wish to dip down into more uncertain psychological terriroty: Where you will end up will indirectly be subject to more RNG the less friends you align yourself with. Directly, every unit obviously have the same chance to be rolled wherever but since alliances will stick together it will feel more solid for those individual players, as they are relocated as a unit. The rolls are the same though, those 500 players are as likely to be rolled with you as you are with them. You are just way less likely to get rolled with one of those players than two of those players are as, of course, they retain a 100% chance to play together.

Does that make sense?

Early "server" politicsIf you look at it from an ingame geopolitical level, what is likely to happen at first is that you will see the region's top 15 GvG and "fight" guilds form three alliances and those three alliances are likely to dominate what becomes the top 3 "servers". You will see similar machinations from the next 15 guilds and so forth but the further down you climb the more pre-existing friendships will determine alliances and the less competetive stature. Early on there may be attempts to "win" the new system but this is also held up by those guilds' interest in fighting each other as much as possible and controlling matchups for that purpose rather than necessarily winning. Initially, winning will be as pointless as it is now and likely a much lower appeal for those groups than controlling the matchups. It's just easier to control top tier matchups as no one is moved up so I'm expecting those groups to gun for tier 1 to begin with.

Longer termOver time however, the new system (afaik) does not hinder wonky alliance-links that can create overdominant server pair-ups that will ruin matchups (unless there are good algorithms to stave that put in place). It is also not unlikely that we will see similar situations pan out as when the old system settled in, where more "score oriented" alliances will form over time for tier 1 and the GvG guilds settle with controlling matchups at a lower tier (as with the old gold- and silver league divide). Time will only really tell how much energy different groups will spend to game the system. Obviously, all of that is just speculation but at least it's speculation rooted in logic and history (or experience).

The new system and night-capping (off hours)The new system is quite likely to see the same kind of machinations as the old system, the only difference is that the new system will be more easily and directly impacted by such manipulation - eg., it was more difficult to tank an old server down to silver league (ie., a lower tier where similar groups reside) than it will be to tank an alliance cluster. Same thing, it will be easier for experienced WvW groups to form alliances with off-hour groups to cover timezones than it was in the past where such manoeuvers were covered by gems and gold which left server language (natural transfer appeal) and PvE effort (hiring/paying for transfers) the dominant factor for off-hour coverage. Then again, more easily controlled does not equal certain or reliable control.

The new system and guild matchups (gems and musical chairs)At least in the EU, that was also the norm for the gem-circus when groups were looking to manipulate matchups for matching-up purposes (ie., getting a chance to fight each other and paying for that chance). That is the big gain for those groups longer term in the new system. Whether they go high or low they will have more tools to pit their alliance versus an alliance of a handful of other guilds looking to fight similar guilds. Then again it won't be perfect control and hopefully Anet does something more reliable for guild matchups on the side (like improving Guild Hall tech or Arena tech to keep guilds happy and interconnected as guilds feed commanders to the masses).

[Swagger.1459]

@"Skeletor.9360" said:Why?So far every single design change other than pure bug fixes I have honestly absolutely hated - not dislike but truly despised.They got rid of the water in WvW. Hated that. Just about quit.They did the april 1st things...No choices...just a day with playing with a forced annoyance - hated it.Remember the PVE content and poisonous monsters that spawned around a tower? - Ugh Universally hated.Desert maps - first ALL of them...OMG terrible.Still now 1 is around - still 1/3rd terrible.Oh yeah used to be able to claim stuff in my 1 man guild....gone

OK so could this be the first change I might not hate?

So how does this work if I'm in a 1 man guild only?My ideal change would be to queue for a WvW fight and be put onto a server that had even teams (numbers). Will that happen if I stay solo? Or will I end up on an underpopulated server getting steam rolled over and over because our server has 10 guys on it and the other 2 have 70. True story! Man did that suck....and I had to pay to move. Just to have fair competition.

Further are you going to dump all new and pugs on one server while the other two are organized wvw guild servers? Would not be surprised by past "updates".

No need to start a new thread when you could have read, and commented, in the official discussion thread...

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/26547/world-restructuring

You’re welcome.

[starlinvf.1358]

@Garrus.7403 said:

@"Skeletor.9360" said:Why?So far every single design change other than pure bug fixes I have honestly absolutely hated - not dislike but truly despised.They got rid of the water in WvW. Hated that. Just about quit.They did the april 1st things...No choices...just a day with playing with a forced annoyance - hated it.Remember the PVE content and poisonous monsters that spawned around a tower? - Ugh Universally hated.Desert maps - first ALL of them...OMG terrible.Still now 1 is around - still 1/3rd terrible.Oh yeah used to be able to claim stuff in my 1 man guild....gone

OK so could this be the first change I might not hate?

So how does this work if I'm in a 1 man guild only?My ideal change would be to queue for a WvW fight and be put onto a server that had even teams (numbers). Will that happen if I stay solo? Or will I end up on an underpopulated server getting steam rolled over and over because our server has 10 guys on it and the other 2 have 70. True story! Man did that suck....and I had to pay to move. Just to have fair competition.

Further are you going to dump all new and pugs on one server while the other two are organized wvw guild servers? Would not be surprised by past "updates".

You said you play only wvw in the p2win thread. If you hate all the changes in the game and you have no fun why do you not stop playing? Do you think if you create a complaint thread everyday anything will change?

I think he just enjoys being angry. "Recreational Outrage" is a term I heard not long ago.... and it just fits in so many places on the internet.

[Kassablanca.5821]

I heard Cloud Fly will be on his own server consider he doesnt fit into any metric since he is on 24/7 but serious tho the metric cant do anything to ppl who all of the sudden decided to play more hours and diff hours.