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Sick of tired of Deadeye Immob from stealth into 1 shot


Jalal.6783

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I'm plat 1/plat 2, and i only saw this one shot build in low plat. It was personally devastating against me, I play a full glass soulbeast and I don't run Signet of Stone or greatsword. As a result, I have 0 blocks, and depend on evades for survival. The problem I have against a competent 1-shot DE on my build is that the DE can usually predict where I'll go to try to break LOS, and can usually get to a point where they'll tap me before I can hide, thanks to 1500 kneel range.

The real, real problem I have is the long stealth duration. For DEs that haven't invested too deeply into hiding (or just aren't that good at it), I can usually tap them with longbow 3, hide myself, and either bait them into trying to decap or just wait until they unstealth for some other reason. LB 4 into LB 2 with One Wolf Pack generally spells the end of any DE I decide to hit. However, a patient DE that has invested into stealth basically drives me from the point every single time, with the possibility of being able to kill me after resetting and chasing. There needs to be a restriction on DE restealth, and I totally agree that the Shadow Meld arms race is a terrible, terrible path to start on.

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@voltaicbore.8012 said:I play a full glass soulbeast and I don't run Signet of Stone or greatsword. As a result, I have 0 blocks, and depend on evades for survival.

Adjust your expectations, then?You can either step your game up (so you qualify for running a glassy build) or change your build (bring signet of stone, lightning reflexes and such).

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@"voltaicbore.8012" said:I'm plat 1/plat 2, and i only saw this one shot build in low plat. It was personally devastating against me, I play a full glass soulbeast and I don't run Signet of Stone or greatsword. As a result, I have 0 blocks, and depend on evades for survival. The problem I have against a competent 1-shot DE on my build is that the DE can usually predict where I'll go to try to break LOS, and can usually get to a point where they'll tap me before I can hide, thanks to 1500 kneel range.

The real, real problem I have is the long stealth duration. For DEs that haven't invested too deeply into hiding (or just aren't that good at it), I can usually tap them with longbow 3, hide myself, and either bait them into trying to decap or just wait until they unstealth for some other reason. LB 4 into LB 2 with One Wolf Pack generally spells the end of any DE I decide to hit. However, a patient DE that has invested into stealth basically drives me from the point every single time, with the possibility of being able to kill me after resetting and chasing. There needs to be a restriction on DE restealth, and I totally agree that the Shadow Meld arms race is a terrible, terrible path to start on.

I'm a terrible thief, I didn't bother with cap points and mostly just stuck to killing people and eventually started hunting a ranger, abusing stealth the whole time, Rifle/Rifle build..

So can agree that stealth needs looking into, mostly with rifle dodge.. Same can be said for Mirage dodge though I guess.

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@Airdive.2613 said:Your profession?

Warrior - Endure pain.Guardian - Renewed focus.Revenant (alright, herald) - Infuse light.Engineer - Elixir S.Ranger - Signet of stone.Thief - Evasive weapon skills and some instant stealth (also F1 -> F2 vs the deadeye).Mesmer - Distortion.Elementalist - Obsidian flesh.Necromancer - Welp, try to enter the shroud and facetank, I guess.

Yes, right. Endure pain and Defy pain will surely save you from 22k Malicous Backstab from stealth which you can't anticipate precisely as DE can perma stealth. This happened in WvW, but still, pretty sad balance... the worst thing is that you can't fight it if you manage to surive because of super original and not-op-at-all elite which removes revealed and gives stealth almost immediately.DE isn't only about rifle and DJ you know.

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@cryorion.9532 said:

@Airdive.2613 said:Your profession?

Warrior - Endure pain.Guardian - Renewed focus.Revenant (alright, herald) - Infuse light.Engineer - Elixir S.Ranger - Signet of stone.Thief - Evasive weapon skills and some instant stealth (also F1 -> F2 vs the deadeye).Mesmer - Distortion.Elementalist - Obsidian flesh.Necromancer - Welp, try to enter the shroud and facetank, I guess.

Yes, right. Endure pain and Defy pain will surely save you from 22k Malicous Backstab from stealth which you can't anticipate precisely as DE can perma stealth. This happened in WvW, but still, pretty sad balance... the worst thing is that you can't fight it if you manage to surive because of super original and not-op-at-all elite which removes revealed and gives stealth almost immediately.DE isn't only about rifle and DJ you know.

I don't think thief has access to immobilization that long. The original complaint is about immobilization -> burst.After it wears off, you can freely dodge and move around, check the enemy's presence with AoEs, and so on.

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@cryorion.9532 said:

@Airdive.2613 said:Your profession?

Warrior - Endure pain.Guardian - Renewed focus.Revenant (alright, herald) - Infuse light.Engineer - Elixir S.Ranger - Signet of stone.Thief - Evasive weapon skills and some instant stealth (also F1 -> F2 vs the deadeye).Mesmer - Distortion.Elementalist - Obsidian flesh.Necromancer - Welp, try to enter the shroud and facetank, I guess.

Yes, right. Endure pain and Defy pain will surely save you from 22k Malicous Backstab from stealth which you can't anticipate precisely as DE can perma stealth. This happened in WvW, but still, pretty sad balance... the worst thing is that you can't fight it if you manage to surive because of super original and not-op-at-all elite which removes revealed and gives stealth almost immediately.DE isn't only about rifle and DJ you know.

1V1 it might be hard to keep up with stealth but in an environment where you have more bodies your side the reveals will work. In 1v1 you can still use knowledge of how DE works to extend the fight a long time. There are many indirect ways of damage mitigation available to a wide swathe of classes. IE against the malicious backstab thief DH traps , AOE effects and the like can lay a hurt on before the thief attack hits. My Condition specced warrior has fewer issues with the malicious backstab thief and more with the at range Rifle thief due to AOE used in conjunction with taunt and on my mark. I have fallen prey on my own DE to rangers using RF and or Wordly impact in some combination which can result in being downed in short order in spite of the stealth. DH pulls into traps , nearby enemy attacks over those that need a target , CC and the like all help counter the DE. Yes the DE can set the terms of a fight and withdraw when needed, but so could a number of other thief builds.

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@cryorion.9532 said:

@Airdive.2613 said:Your profession?

Warrior - Endure pain.Guardian - Renewed focus.Revenant (alright, herald) - Infuse light.Engineer - Elixir S.Ranger - Signet of stone.Thief - Evasive weapon skills and some instant stealth (also F1 -> F2 vs the deadeye).Mesmer - Distortion.Elementalist - Obsidian flesh.Necromancer - Welp, try to enter the shroud and facetank, I guess.

Yes, right. Endure pain and Defy pain will surely save you from 22k Malicous Backstab from stealth which you can't anticipate precisely as DE can perma stealth. This happened in WvW, but still, pretty sad balance... the worst thing is that you can't fight it if you manage to surive because of super original and not-op-at-all elite which removes revealed and gives stealth almost immediately.DE isn't only about rifle and DJ you know.

This is the SPvP section son.DE's rarely or never actually use MBS on a real match around here.

Why?Because it doesn't work.

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None of the skills in game alone are that powerful. Its all the stacks of might and other damage buffs that all classes have easy access to now. In the beginning it wasn't like that. But anet figured hey lets give boons for every thing someone does. Dodge get a boon, walk get a boon, jump get a boon, stealth get a boon, auto attack get a boon, use a heal get a boon, boon everything!

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DE of all things is easy to deal with. Just get to them and hammer em down(or use powerful ranged atks right back at em). They barely have any HP. Otherwise just put a reflect or projectile destruction thing down and /laugh at them.Mesmer one shots people far more easily and actually can't be dealt with without an invuln or block since the mes itself is invulnerable all the time. That's unbalanced. Deadeye isn't.

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I'm actually having fun this season if there aren't any thieves in my matches. If there is a thief in my match I seriously consider quitting the game all together. They are that unfun to play against.

I just wish I knew what the balance team was thinking, and then not nerfing them last patch. Maybe proof they don't care about PvP balance at all?

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@"Kumouta.4985" said:Just get to them and hammer em down

So your advice is:"Run towards the teleporting, sniper that takes 90% of your life in two seconds of burst then goes invisible till their skills reset and they can do it again."Which branch of Imperial service did you get your Stormtrooper training in?

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@"Rufo.3716" said:I'm actually having fun this season if there aren't any thieves in my matches. If there is a thief in my match I seriously consider quitting the game all together. They are that unfun to play against.

Or it might be the case of "forgot to account for thief's existence when composing a build".There are tools to deal with thieves, but it's your choice to build in such a way that you counter everyone else except thief.

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@DotDotWin.4357 said:

@"Kumouta.4985" said:Just get to them and hammer em down

So your advice is:"Run towards the teleporting, sniper that takes 90% of your life in two seconds of burst then goes invisible till their skills reset and they can do it again."Which branch of Imperial service did you get your Stormtrooper training in?

Oh, come on. Ranger's greatsword, guardian's sword (among other skills), warrior's shield, elementalist's and mesmer's respective blinks, thief's steal are all great ways to quickly approach a deadeye. The tools are there.

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Admittingly, DE is hard as shit to track down, most of the time when I play either as a DD or DE my primary goal is to shut down enemy team's DE by denying them an opportunity to strike, to the point that they are apparently useless for their team. When an immob is coming I immediately pop-up my condi remove or use ROI to prevent DJ+Rifle 3 faceroll, I bet your profession has one too.

So yeah, playing 1v1 against a DE when your skillset is not hardwired to counter them is ill-advised (Necros are like food being left among the wolves). Let someone from your team who is capable enough to engage him.

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as a dead eye player let me say we cant spam stealth 1 now yes we are deadly but if other team has mesmer or deadeye then it become who kill who first as mesmer main i always kill deadeye first then range scourge and any other squise build kill it fisrt condition work best agaist deady eye i only carry 2 clease (some carry 3 at cost f utility and damage ) as for counterYOU DO NOT DEFENED FROM DEADYEYE YOU KILL HIM ONLYendure pain? infusion lite ? that warrior stance that heal? well use them to reach deadyeye and heal one selfDONT stand on point thinking you can bunker it deadyeye is most anti bunker and best aginst them, so go out and kill it firstalways carry a range weapon or leap skill to cover distance aoe still hit deadyeye and some skill that are painfull arereaper == axe 2 gastly claw even if dodged it take more hen 50% hp if not dodge 95% or wholeso one i had 6k hp as deadeye some reaper use gastly claw i dodged it after 1st hit coming off dodge i am hit fo r3 more hit in stealth and die.....reaper have no right to complain !!!!if you dont use axe then you are probly a bad reaperscourge == you are dead!! (dead eye is super anti scourge)gurdian == core can kill it before it can use it stun bereaker usin teleport fire utility skill(was done many time to me)firebrand== you are dead as bunkerdragon hunter == force them to use ther only stun breaker and enther trap they kill him in instantenginer == as holo you shuld have speed and 2 invunrablity you also one of tough nut to cracks(you are 2nd last to kill before warrior as deadeye)reve== herled is fast just reach them (problematic to deal with)ele == you are dead as bunker you cant defened even with permanent maginatic shild 2-3 stealth att you are dead(happend once)ranger == stun enter stealth cover distence burstmesmer== if you die to deadyeye you are bad seriusly you should have most ease killing them

HOPE it help killing deadeye

if you say we cant burst deadeye due to fighting someone in mid they you dont get DEADEYED but 2V1ed

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i forget to saymaximum damage deadeye could do without malicios to its target(without might) is using a build without ''' binding shadow''' and 5 second time is 14k one hit(it run siget of agilety and can use one more condition cleance but lose 10% critic chance)my build do 9k to marked target and 7 k to unmarked and is much more susitaind type damage build with biending shadow(still only do 22% damge of team at best mainly caping)

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All you have to ask is; Is Deadeye a positive or negative influence on the game-mode? For newer players trying out PvP, and the non-experts, do you think most are going to stay around at all once they come up against these deadeyes which are a dime a dozen? You get one every second fight, and they often determine the fate of the entire match.

Yes, there are some ways to try to counter them, and yes, some players don't have too much of a problem with them, but for the majority of the player base they are simply broken. And the game survives or dies on the majority, not the minority.

There is no other class in the game where you often can practically do nothing against. Every other class you at least have the time to react to in some form or another. But a Deadeye hitting you when you're attacking another player-character? You learn about that only from your combat-log after, as you're waiting for your character to re-spawn.

I'm sure many of us are tired of coming up against the same players over and over and over again, because the community has dwindled to such a point where this occurs. The Match-making algorithm is not the problem, it can only do so much with the limited player-base provided, and as it is (as is evident in other threads) there is already such a wide variation in rank within match teams, that match ups are often very one-sided. There has been enough criticism about Deadeye, constructive or otherwise. Hopefully Anet will listen, try to understand, do something about it, or else all we'll be left with is a dead game-mode. And no one here wants that. It feels like it's on life-support as it is.

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what iam dead but i had full hp ,vianila shatter burst me you say whats that?? i am new playerwhy is this warrior not dieing i bursted so many time ??? or loaded him with so many condition??? i am new playerwhy is this gurd fully heaaled it had little hp just now?????and many more

game mechanism that is hard on new is no excuse to nerf a class that is finaly playble do you know how thief were treated before????

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@"Reverielle.3972" said:All you have to ask is; Is Deadeye a positive or negative influence on the game-mode? For newer players trying out PvP, and the non-experts, do you think most are going to stay around at all once they come up against these deadeyes which are a dime a dozen? You get one every second fight, and they often determine the fate of the entire match.

Yes, there are some ways to try to counter them, and yes, some players don't have too much of a problem with them, but for the majority of the player base they are simply broken. And the game survives or dies on the majority, not the minority.

There is no other class in the game where you often can practically do nothing against. Every other class you at least have the time to react to in some form or another. But a Deadeye hitting you when you're attacking another player-character? You learn about that only from your combat-log after, as you're waiting for your character to re-spawn.

I'm sure many of us are tired of coming up against the same players over and over and over again, because the community has dwindled to such a point where this occurs. The Match-making algorithm is not the problem, it can only do so much with the limited player-base provided, and as it is (as is evident in other threads) there is already such a wide variation in rank within match teams, that match ups are often very one-sided. There has been enough criticism about Deadeye, constructive or otherwise. Hopefully Anet will listen, try to understand, do something about it, or else all we'll be left with is a dead game-mode. And no one here wants that. It feels like it's on life-support as it is.

I have been taken out by any number of player professions "while engaged with another player" that I did not know even around until I reviewed my log to see what happened. +1 is a thing and always has been a thing. Thief has always been better at a +1 then most any other professions. Its how the old d/p worked so well with the target not knowing the backstab coming until it too late. It is what backstab was designed to do.

The major reason DE is replacing d/p in that role is because of all the Pbaoe and other types of skills introduced into the game that make going in for a backstab much less successful. Trust me a ranger opening on you from 1500 with RF as you engaged with some Guardian at melee will take you out just as quick with a lot of "where did THAT come from" after and a Daredevil thief stacking stealth and coming up from behind you as you engaged with another, just as undetectable before it too late.

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@"sephiroth.4217" said:I'm a terrible thief, I didn't bother with cap points and mostly just stuck to killing people and eventually started hunting a ranger, abusing stealth the whole time, Rifle/Rifle build..

So can agree that stealth needs looking into, mostly with rifle dodge.. Same can be said for Mirage dodge though I guess.

More generally it's the ranged burst from stealth. Stealth provides safety. Range provides safety. More generally there should be a trade-off. If you are using a ranged weapon, extended duration stealth is unnecessary. In the case of deadeye, it causes imbalances.

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@DotDotWin.4357 said:

@"Kumouta.4985" said:Just get to them and hammer em down

So your advice is:"Run towards the teleporting, sniper that takes 90% of your life in two seconds of burst then goes invisible till their skills reset and they can do it again."Which branch of Imperial service did you get your Stormtrooper training in?

That was a really funny comment but what you replied to is still true.. very often you will gap close and they will just feebly stealth-dodge once, then you nuke where their dodge roll took them - very frequently this will enough to force the DE to full reset or die.

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@Chaith.8256 said:

@"Kumouta.4985" said:Just get to them and hammer em down

So your advice is:"Run towards the teleporting, sniper that takes 90% of your life in two seconds of burst then goes invisible till their skills reset and they can do it again."Which branch of Imperial service did you get your Stormtrooper training in?

That was a really funny comment but what you replied to is still true.. very often you will gap close and they will just feebly stealth-dodge once, then you nuke where their dodge roll took them - very frequently this will enough to force the DE to full reset or die.Impossible to counter something that takes you from full health to downed.

Granted, I only pop into sPvP occasionally to do a daily when I don't want to do one of the PvE ones, but I've PvP'd in many other games since the 1990s, so I think it's OK for me to have an opinion.

I noticed this issue the other day when I hopped out of our spawn area, ran a few feet, and was taken out of the game by one of these folks who was camping the spawn. He was way too far away for me (sword/torch, scepter/shield guardian) to do anything about and he was invisible before he attacked, so there wasn't any indication he was there. I watched him after that and he just moved around and did this to people as they left the spawn. Worked every time, because he was free to change his location while hidden and he could down people before they could get to his new location.

This is the kind of game play that breaks games. Simple as that really.

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