Rifle skills slow and low damage output both Warrior and Engineer.

[Texas.4861]

Rifle skills on both the Warrior and Engineer are slow and do not do as much damage as a single handed weapons. Sometimes as a Warrior you need a ranged weapon especially when certain targets either fly or do damage the closer you get. The Long bow is my ranged weapon of choice due the speed of its skill and damage output. The Rifle needs to shoot a little faster and do more damage per hit.

[IndigoSundown.5419]

Outside of one relatively brief period where Kill Shot was being complained about, rifle skills have under-performed for Warrior and Engineer since launch. I have little hope that the situation will change, so perhaps the lesson is that if you want to shoot a rifle, play Deadeye.

[Turkeyspit.3965]

For Engy I always thought rifle was just a stat stick? I'm leveling one now, and I'm running either Flamethrower or Mortar kit 100% of the time.

[IndigoSundown.5419]

@Turkeyspit.3965 said:For Engy I always thought rifle was just a stat stick? I'm leveling one now, and I'm running either Flamethrower or Mortar kit 100% of the time.

Some players use rifle while running a turret build. Turret builds are not the most effective, but some players like them.

[Torzini.1523]

@Turkeyspit.3965 said:For Engy I always thought rifle was just a stat stick? I'm leveling one now, and I'm running either Flamethrower or Mortar kit 100% of the time.

It's not, 3 and 5 actually do a fair bit of damage and 4 is a very useful breakbar contribution especially when you have stability. (Also 5 is great for mobility). It's the weapon used in the meta PVE holosmith raid build right now. You don't stay there and camp it of course but it does get used.

[Kalendraf.9521]

@Torzini.1523 said:

@Turkeyspit.3965 said:For Engy I always thought rifle was just a stat stick? I'm leveling one now, and I'm running either Flamethrower or Mortar kit 100% of the time.

It's not, 3 and 5 actually do a fair bit of damage and 4 is a very useful breakbar contribution especially when you have stability. (Also 5 is great for mobility). It's the weapon used in the meta PVE holosmith raid build right now. You don't stay there and camp it of course but it does get used.

^This. Engi rifle is ok.

On the other hand, warrior rifle is underwhelming. If Warrior LB is supposed to be their condi weapon, Rifle should probably be more of a power weapon. However with the current skills, it really doesn't fit well for power or condi builds. It likely needs an overhaul, but there are other more glaring balance issues that should be tackled first.

[Rhyse.8179]

A lot of core weapons are underpowered. The game got a LOT of power creep with POF and all the older stuff is pretty weak in comparison.

Personally I'd rather see a game-wide nerf to elite specs to bring them down a bit and tone down the massive creep. That said, a lot of the core weapons were crap even before that and War Rifle was one of them, it could definately use some looking at.

[Orion Templar.4589]

Agreed on the Warrior rifle. Thematically and for the builds I like to run with Warrior, the rifle would make the most sense for me, but it just feels so slow and weak. Even the recent updates weren't enough. My suggestions that I hope would help and yet not be too overpowered would be to have skill #1 generate at least double the adrenaline that it does now, and to reduce the cooldown on Volley to 5 seconds (untraited).

[mindcircus.1506]

Hasn't rifle Holo been meta since PoF launched a year ago?

yeah you are right, better buff that.

[Lumpy Forehead.2193]

@Torzini.1523 said:It's not, 3 and 5 actually do a fair bit of damage and 4 is a very useful breakbar contribution especially when you have stability. (Also 5 is great for mobility). It's the weapon used in the meta PVE holosmith raid build right now. You don't stay there and camp it of course but it does get used.

I play engi and I agree with this. Holosmith is powerful enough, buffing rifle will make holosmith too powerful.

[phs.6089]

@mindcircus.1506 said:Hasn't rifle Holo been meta since PoF launched a year ago?

yeah you are right, better buff that.

cus rifle is the ONLY ranged, power weapon, engineer has , simple as that. that sword prosperity holo got is big joke . Sword is a utility weapon

[GenghisKhan.7842]

Engi rifle is ok, low damage but damn good CC (#2, #4), plus #5 is good for mobility and comboingWarrior rifle is crappy, has always been so, except for a short time frame, where some PVP players complained the F1 was doing too much damage, so it got nerfed. It actually was still crap since the cast time was too long and the animation extremely visible, so not reliable at all. Anyway, doubt they'll rework that... again

[Majic.4801]

Engineer rifle isn't great for DPS, but its cc and mobility are excellent.

Warrior rifle is just horribly underpowered and a serious contender for worst weapon in the game.

[Tekoneiric.6817]

I've always thought the range was too short with the engineer's rife hip shot skill. The short range is a handicap in boss fights. Maybe if there was a long rifle in the game or a kit to change engineer's rifle skills. They could place a weapon tuning kit for the rifle and pistol where the weapon swap goes since the engineer doesn't have weapon swap.

[Khisanth.2948]

There were some buffs to warrior rifle in the most recent patch ..

• Aimed Shot: The damage of this skill has been increased by 33%.
• Volley: The damage of this skill has been increased by 25%.
• Brutal Shot: The damage of this skill has been increased by 100%.

but I haven't tried it yet

Looking at the numbers on the wiki both the #1 and #2 are still better on longbow. Higher base damage and better scaling with power.

[Ardid.7203]

Engie rifle needs a little buff to ranged dps (aka, auto). Aside from that, it is an amazing tool that do a lot of things in a really fun way. One of the best weapons in the game, fun wise, and my personal favorite, without any doubt.

[Kalendraf.9521]

@Khisanth.2948 said:There were some buffs to warrior rifle in the most recent patch ..

• Aimed Shot: The damage of this skill has been increased by 33%.
• Volley: The damage of this skill has been increased by 25%.
• Brutal Shot: The damage of this skill has been increased by 100%.

but I haven't tried it yet

Looking at the numbers on the wiki both the #1 and #2 are still better on longbow. Higher base damage and better scaling with power.Even after the recent buffs, warrior rifle is still bad. Fixing the problem with warrior rifle will take more than just damage boosts - the weapon skills need a fundamental overhaul and redesign.

[starlinvf.1358]

@Kalendraf.9521 said:

@Torzini.1523 said:

@Turkeyspit.3965 said:For Engy I always thought rifle was just a stat stick? I'm leveling one now, and I'm running either Flamethrower or Mortar kit 100% of the time.

It's not, 3 and 5 actually do a fair bit of damage and 4 is a very useful breakbar contribution especially when you have stability. (Also 5 is great for mobility). It's the weapon used in the meta PVE holosmith raid build right now. You don't stay there and camp it of course but it does get used.

^This. Engi rifle is ok.

On the other hand, warrior rifle is underwhelming. If Warrior LB is supposed to be their condi weapon, Rifle should probably be more of a power weapon. However with the current skills, it really doesn't fit well for power or condi builds. It likely needs an overhaul, but there are other more glaring balance issues that should be tackled first.

The problem with War Rifle has more to do with how its a low mobility weapon, when most of the melee weapons have distinct movement characteristics, and most of them being pretty fast and fluid. The Rifle's theme is based on a Musket era Rifleman formation. Compare that to the Engineer, which uses it more like a shotgun, or the Deadeye, built around creating a positioning advantage to act as a sniper.

Whats really wrong with the design is how substantially different it is compared to all the other weapons, to the point where it has no Complimenting weapon to create a build around. if you look at Ranger with LB+GS, those 2 weapons compliment each other extremely well due to GS having defensive options and gap closer in the same kit. Longbow also offers Stealth and Knock back, enabling the pairing to control the distance of engagement.

There are really only 2 ways to address this. Either Rifle needs a rework to make it a better kiting tool, with something added to aid in gap closing; or a new Espec built around mid-ranged combat that the Rifle can easily slot into as a complimenting weapon.

[Ardid.7203]

Please don't use elite specs to "solve" problems with core professions. Look at core Engie and Scrapper, see how much good Holo (Created to solve the problem of kits being too relevant and too hard) has done to them.

Anet should FIRST fix the base problems, THEN create specs to make the profession more diverse.

[Texas.4861]

Well I do hope they do something with the Rifle, I would love to use it but its just seems way weak. My Engy used two pistolas.

[Castigator.3470]

@"Ardid.7203" said:Please don't use elite specs to "solve" problems with core professions. Look at core Engie and Scrapper, see how much good Holo (Created to solve the problem of kits being too relevant and too hard) has done to them.

Anet should FIRST fix the base problems, THEN create specs to make the profession more diverse.

While I do enjoy Holosmith for the over the top flashyness and the sci-fi blade, I agree that the class has its issues and having one well designed elite spec doesn't magically solve all the other problems. For the time being I use the sword, but whenever I need to go ranged the rifle is there in my backpack.

As for the good old rifle. I'd love to see more classes being able to use the rifle. We have Deadeye, which is pretty well done, but what about hunters, when right outside of Divinity's Reach in the Queensdale forest there's a hunting lodge with rich nobles using all sorts of weapons, including rifles. Will there be a hunter elite spec?

[Texas.4861]

They have upped the damage output on the ( Warrior) Rifle to be Higher then the Longbow, (Ascended Rifle damage output is 1035-1265 and the Ascended Longbow damage output is at 966-1134) but the Rifles skills are the same....slow and ineffective. Close but no cigar.

[DietPepsi.4371]

If they do do a rework for Warrior rifle I hope they don't change the feel of it. I picked it at launch because Warrior uses it like a normal rifle, as opposed to Engi whom uses it more like a gadget. That and Warrior actually shoulders the rifle when firing it.

I do like the suggestion of making it a bit faster. I've always wanted bleeding back ever since it was scrapped, and they could even do a version with buffed damage, but an ammo mechanic shared across skills 1-4 so you have to be more careful about how you use your shots. (maybe 10 rnds).

[thepenmonster.3621]

@"Texas.4861" said:but the Rifles skills are the same....slow and ineffective.

Yeah, it's the rate of fire and cooldowns that are the problem, not the damage. Which is a shame because I like the weapon otherwise. It's just there are much better options available.

I always saw core Engi weapons as just stat boosts and stuck with the kits. I found them... Meh for lack of a better word. Not terrible to use but nothing to make me say, "I like playing with this weapon set." (Though I did play a Condi + Precision p/p build while getting HPs for my elites that worked surprisingly well in the jungle. But that's neither here nor there.)

[Ashantara.8731]

Rifles are in desperate need of an overhaul all across professions.