Episode 4: thread for spoilers and comments.

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

@"draxynnic.3719" said:That was pretty much the case with the Risen as well, and with non-sylvari Mordrem (the Mordrem Guard were always a special case, since they weren't minionised so much as mind-controlled).Ehh, not really. Risen, even the most basic ones, could communicate in short simple phrases like "Death! Good!". Mordrem, at least those that weren't just animals, could do the same. However no normal branded charr, human, ogre, awakended, etc. etc. has been spotted verbalizing to any extent at all. It's only been high level branded bosses(usually Forgotten), and Glint, and her offspring, that have ever spoken. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if the Branded have been so destroyed by their corruption that they lost any ability to ever return to normal.

The only dragon minions shown to be less intelligent overall are destroyers, but those are just made from rock and lava, and not corrupted beings like the other dragon minions.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

@Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

@"draxynnic.3719" said:That was pretty much the case with the Risen as well, and with non-sylvari Mordrem (the Mordrem Guard were always a special case, since they weren't minionised so much as mind-controlled).Ehh, not really. Risen, even the most basic ones, could communicate in short simple phrases like "Death! Good!". Mordrem, at least those that weren't just animals, could do the same. However no normal branded charr, human, ogre, awakended, etc. etc. has been spotted verbalizing to any extent at all. It's only been high level branded bosses(usually Forgotten), and Glint, and her offspring, that have ever spoken. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if the Branded have been so destroyed by their corruption that they lost any ability to ever return to normal.

The only dragon minions shown to be less intelligent overall are destroyers, but those are just made from rock and lava, and not corrupted beings like the other dragon minions.

If you go into Siren's Landing, the only still-intelligent risen are the Kingpins (formerly Risen Knights), and maybe the giant (not sure on that). All the coral risen, as well as the risen villagers, nobles, pirates, and animals (drakes, gorillas, etc.) are all completely mindless, and even lose their abilities unless near a Kingpin - if they're on their own, they just punch and slash with their hands or weapons-in-hand.

That seems pretty damn mindless, one-liner or no. The dialogue even call them completely mindless, both before and after Zhaitan's fall. It seems that what gave them that minute amount of intelligence that allowed a couple one-liners was their connection to Zhaitan's will alone. Those who had actual sentences to say were those given more magic, presumably like sylvari and definitely like dragon champions.

I don't think we ever heard mordrem itzel or nuhochs talk, btw. A quick look at wiki tells me they don't have any aggro/deaggro/death quotes. Certainly not the trolls, menders, and grunts. Only the Mordrem Guard ever spoke, and they're non-standard as drax said.

And Drax's point about branded becoming intelligent is that Aurene can give them intelligence by giving them more magic, even if they currently aren't very intelligent. In theory.

[JTHMRulez.9378]

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@JTHMRulez.9378 said:Indeed. But what I am trying to say is that certainly is there is any being with a power comparable or greater than his, by any means and logic, they would stop Kralkatorrik at the first chance they got.- The effects of him eating the magic of The Mists is none other than reality (Not Tyria, all of reality) being destroyed.Not necessarily. I mean, first of all, they have to learn about Kralkatorrik. You and a lot of people seem to be thinking of the Mists as something planetary, or solar system-y. But it's a full out

multiverse

. Practically infinitely huge. And Kralkatorrik is still nearby Tyria within the Mists.

Just because Kralk is in the Mists doesn't mean every being in existence will know 1) he is there, 2) he poses a threat to all reality, 3) how strong he is or can become. Regardless of power levels.

Besides that, Snaff and co. are talking about Kralkatorrik from the perspective of Tyrias. It might not even be possible for Kralkatorrik to consume the entire multiverse.

@JTHMRulez.9378 said:I am aware of Demons existence, they are just not comparable to Kralkatorrik in terms of power so I did not compare them.I am also aware of the sheer size of the Mists. The Mists are big enough that connect multiple alternative timelines around the multiverse.- Yet, there is something important here and is that Kralkatorrik isn't a threat to "Tyria" or "The Mists" he is a threat to reality itself. Two times (I screenshot them) is explicitly said that Kralkatorrik will tear apart all of reality, not just Tyria. Which is why I am saying that, if there any beings stronger than Kralkatorrik, they would stop at nothing because such a cataclysmic event would not be unknown to them.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

@JTHMRulez.9378 said:

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@JTHMRulez.9378 said:Indeed. But what I am trying to say is that certainly is there is any being with a power comparable or greater than his, by any means and logic, they would stop Kralkatorrik at the first chance they got.- The effects of him eating the magic of The Mists is none other than reality (Not Tyria, all of reality) being destroyed.Not necessarily. I mean, first of all, they have to learn about Kralkatorrik. You and a lot of people seem to be thinking of the Mists as something planetary, or solar system-y. But it's a full out

multiverse

. Practically infinitely huge. And Kralkatorrik is still nearby Tyria within the Mists.

Just because Kralk is in the Mists doesn't mean every being in existence will know 1) he is there, 2) he poses a threat to all reality, 3) how strong he is or can become. Regardless of power levels.

Besides that, Snaff and co. are talking about Kralkatorrik from the perspective of Tyrias. It might not even be possible for Kralkatorrik to consume the entire multiverse.

@JTHMRulez.9378 said:I am aware of Demons existence, they are just not comparable to Kralkatorrik in terms of power so I did not compare them.I am also aware of the sheer size of the Mists. The Mists are big enough that connect multiple alternative timelines around the multiverse.- Yet, there is something important here and is that Kralkatorrik isn't a threat to "Tyria" or "The Mists" he is a threat to reality itself. Two times (I screenshot them) is explicitly said that Kralkatorrik will tear apart all of reality, not just Tyria. Which is why I am saying that, if there any beings stronger than Kralkatorrik, they would stop at nothing because such a cataclysmic event would not be unknown to them.

If you go down a street, are you to know that the sniper down the block in the 10 story building has you in their sights? Would you know about the guy setting up a bomb under the car across the street if you don't look that way? Would you know that the guy casually strolling towards you has a pistol under his jacket and intends to pull it out once he passes you?

Just because Kralkatorrik is a potential threat to all existence and will become a definitive one if left alone while residing in the Mists, doesn't mean everyone who lives in the Mists will know about Kralkatorrik's existence, let alone that he threatens them. Doesn't even mean that Tyria's proverbial next door neighbors do, especially if they see Kralkatorrik as a lesser at the moment, without knowing that Kralk can gain power by consuming the magic of the Mists.

[Zoltar MacRoth.7146]

I'm calling it: at some point we're going to go into the mists to meet The All, who will manifest as a dapper older gentleman sitting in a room full of televisions and he will tell us that we're the One and that we have the power to stop the Kralk virus in the software of the multiverse by rebooting the system, which requires us to let Kralk brand us thereby somehow flippity-floppity colliding his evil-ness with the polar opposite of our goodness and bippity-boppity he dies, we die, the universe is saved and we find ourselves in a glowy, perfectly white train station and the old dude will be there to tell us that we're no longer on Tyria and we have the choice to go back there to continue our adventures or we can choose to go on... to GW3!

[JTHMRulez.9378]

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@JTHMRulez.9378 said:

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@JTHMRulez.9378 said:Indeed. But what I am trying to say is that certainly is there is any being with a power comparable or greater than his, by any means and logic, they would stop Kralkatorrik at the first chance they got.- The effects of him eating the magic of The Mists is none other than reality (Not Tyria, all of reality) being destroyed.Not necessarily. I mean, first of all, they have to learn about Kralkatorrik. You and a lot of people seem to be thinking of the Mists as something planetary, or solar system-y. But it's a full out

multiverse

. Practically infinitely huge. And Kralkatorrik is still nearby Tyria within the Mists.

Just because Kralk is in the Mists doesn't mean every being in existence will know 1) he is there, 2) he poses a threat to all reality, 3) how strong he is or can become. Regardless of power levels.

Besides that, Snaff and co. are talking about Kralkatorrik from the perspective of Tyrias. It might not even be possible for Kralkatorrik to consume the entire multiverse.

@JTHMRulez.9378 said:I am aware of Demons existence, they are just not comparable to Kralkatorrik in terms of power so I did not compare them.I am also aware of the sheer size of the Mists. The Mists are big enough that connect multiple alternative timelines around the multiverse.- Yet, there is something important here and is that Kralkatorrik isn't a threat to "Tyria" or "The Mists" he is a threat to reality itself. Two times (I screenshot them) is explicitly said that Kralkatorrik will tear apart all of reality, not just Tyria. Which is why I am saying that, if there any beings stronger than Kralkatorrik, they would stop at nothing because such a cataclysmic event would not be unknown to them.

If you go down a street, are you to know that the sniper down the block in the 10 story building has you in their sights? Would you know about the guy setting up a bomb under the car across the street if you don't look that way? Would you know that the guy casually strolling towards you has a pistol under his jacket and intends to pull it out once he passes you?

Just because Kralkatorrik is a potential threat to all existence and will become a definitive one if left alone while residing in the Mists, doesn't mean everyone who lives in the Mists will know about Kralkatorrik's existence, let alone that he threatens them. Doesn't even mean that Tyria's proverbial next door neighbors do, especially if they see Kralkatorrik as a lesser at the moment, without knowing that Kralk can gain power by consuming the magic of the Mists.

Thing is.- First of all, the Mists is not a street, and the (powerful) beings who live there aren't me. They are certainly more perceptive and I am sure that if a couple of Asura can notice he is tearing reality appear, any "trans-dimensional" or "multiversal" beings around can certainly notice that, well, reality is going to blow apart. The example isn't really that accurate since Kralkatorrik is not going to bomb "Tyria and the Mists close to it." He is going to destroy absolutely everything. And such a hole in reality is hard to not notice.

[draxynnic.3719]

@JTHMRulez.9378 said:

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@JTHMRulez.9378 said:

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@JTHMRulez.9378 said:Indeed. But what I am trying to say is that certainly is there is any being with a power comparable or greater than his, by any means and logic, they would stop Kralkatorrik at the first chance they got.- The effects of him eating the magic of The Mists is none other than reality (Not Tyria, all of reality) being destroyed.Not necessarily. I mean, first of all, they have to learn about Kralkatorrik. You and a lot of people seem to be thinking of the Mists as something planetary, or solar system-y. But it's a full out

multiverse

. Practically infinitely huge. And Kralkatorrik is still nearby Tyria within the Mists.

Just because Kralk is in the Mists doesn't mean every being in existence will know 1) he is there, 2) he poses a threat to all reality, 3) how strong he is or can become. Regardless of power levels.

Besides that, Snaff and co. are talking about Kralkatorrik from the perspective of Tyrias. It might not even be possible for Kralkatorrik to consume the entire multiverse.

@JTHMRulez.9378 said:I am aware of Demons existence, they are just not comparable to Kralkatorrik in terms of power so I did not compare them.I am also aware of the sheer size of the Mists. The Mists are big enough that connect multiple alternative timelines around the multiverse.- Yet, there is something important here and is that Kralkatorrik isn't a threat to "Tyria" or "The Mists" he is a threat to reality itself. Two times (I screenshot them) is explicitly said that Kralkatorrik will tear apart all of reality, not just Tyria. Which is why I am saying that, if there any beings stronger than Kralkatorrik, they would stop at nothing because such a cataclysmic event would not be unknown to them.

If you go down a street, are you to know that the sniper down the block in the 10 story building has you in their sights? Would you know about the guy setting up a bomb under the car across the street if you don't look that way? Would you know that the guy casually strolling towards you has a pistol under his jacket and intends to pull it out once he passes you?

Just because Kralkatorrik is a potential threat to all existence and will become a definitive one if left alone while residing in the Mists, doesn't mean everyone who lives in the Mists will know about Kralkatorrik's existence, let alone that he threatens them. Doesn't even mean that Tyria's proverbial next door neighbors do, especially if they see Kralkatorrik as a lesser at the moment, without knowing that Kralk can gain power by consuming the magic of the Mists.

Thing is.- First of all, the Mists is not a street, and the (powerful) beings who live there aren't me. They are certainly more perceptive and I am sure that if a couple of Asura can notice he is tearing reality appear, any "trans-dimensional" or "multiversal" beings around can certainly notice that, well, reality is going to blow apart. The example isn't really that accurate since Kralkatorrik is not going to bomb "Tyria and the Mists close to it." He is going to destroy absolutely everything. And such a hole in reality is hard to not notice.

The Mists are not a street (except when they are), but what are they, really? We have pretty much no information on how much the shockwaves of what Kralkatorrik is doing propagates through the Mists: it could be instantaneous so that everyone in the Mists immediately knew what he was doing, or it could be so slow that unless someone decides to investigate the Tyrian region of the Mists independently, they wouldn't know unless someone tells them or the border of Kralkatorrik's zone of influence crosses over them. We simply don't know enough about the Mists to say.

If it's somewhere in between... Kralkatorrik has only been there for a few days. No being that we've yet come across in the Guild Wars franchise has infallible omniscience: both the Elder Dragons and the gods can be tricked and hidden from. So it's entirely plausible that a being at that power level might reside in the Mists and be, as yet, unaware of the threat Kralkatorrik poses, either because they haven't noticed that there's anything going on, or because they've noticed something, but as far as they're concerned thus far it's just another disturbance in the Mists and they don't realise there's an Elder Dragon in the middle of it. (Keep in mind that those who recognised the danger of Kralkatorrik "destroying everything" are those who know it's Kralkatorrik and what he has the potential to do - an outside observer might not recognise that this event is particularly dangerous.)

[ThatOddOne.4387]

The Gods do, however, know about the Elder Dragons and what they can do. But it is like you say that they might just be too far away to notice what's going on. If they're found then travelling to the disturbance shouldn't take long at all though.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

@JTHMRulez.9378 said:

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@JTHMRulez.9378 said:

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@JTHMRulez.9378 said:Indeed. But what I am trying to say is that certainly is there is any being with a power comparable or greater than his, by any means and logic, they would stop Kralkatorrik at the first chance they got.- The effects of him eating the magic of The Mists is none other than reality (Not Tyria, all of reality) being destroyed.Not necessarily. I mean, first of all, they have to learn about Kralkatorrik. You and a lot of people seem to be thinking of the Mists as something planetary, or solar system-y. But it's a full out

multiverse

. Practically infinitely huge. And Kralkatorrik is still nearby Tyria within the Mists.

Just because Kralk is in the Mists doesn't mean every being in existence will know 1) he is there, 2) he poses a threat to all reality, 3) how strong he is or can become. Regardless of power levels.

Besides that, Snaff and co. are talking about Kralkatorrik from the perspective of Tyrias. It might not even be possible for Kralkatorrik to consume the entire multiverse.

@JTHMRulez.9378 said:I am aware of Demons existence, they are just not comparable to Kralkatorrik in terms of power so I did not compare them.I am also aware of the sheer size of the Mists. The Mists are big enough that connect multiple alternative timelines around the multiverse.- Yet, there is something important here and is that Kralkatorrik isn't a threat to "Tyria" or "The Mists" he is a threat to reality itself. Two times (I screenshot them) is explicitly said that Kralkatorrik will tear apart all of reality, not just Tyria. Which is why I am saying that, if there any beings stronger than Kralkatorrik, they would stop at nothing because such a cataclysmic event would not be unknown to them.

If you go down a street, are you to know that the sniper down the block in the 10 story building has you in their sights? Would you know about the guy setting up a bomb under the car across the street if you don't look that way? Would you know that the guy casually strolling towards you has a pistol under his jacket and intends to pull it out once he passes you?

Just because Kralkatorrik is a potential threat to all existence and will become a definitive one if left alone while residing in the Mists, doesn't mean everyone who lives in the Mists will know about Kralkatorrik's existence, let alone that he threatens them. Doesn't even mean that Tyria's proverbial next door neighbors do, especially if they see Kralkatorrik as a lesser at the moment, without knowing that Kralk can gain power by consuming the magic of the Mists.

Thing is.- First of all, the Mists is not a street, and the (powerful) beings who live there aren't me. They are certainly more perceptive and I am sure that if a couple of Asura can notice he is tearing reality appear, any "trans-dimensional" or "multiversal" beings around can certainly notice that, well, reality is going to blow apart. The example isn't really that accurate since Kralkatorrik is not going to bomb "Tyria and the Mists close to it." He is going to destroy absolutely everything. And such a hole in reality is hard to not notice.

Blish and Taimi noticed because we actively investigated what Kralkatorrik was doing, because we've been keeping tabs on Kralkatorrik from the get go (and Kralkatorrik showed us his hand).

This won't be true for beings near other worlds, and the Mists don't seem to be something where the entire multiverse will know if something happens in one corner of it. If that were so, we'd probably have been screwed when Abaddon tried to merge the Mists with Tyria. Just because something is happening and no one but those nearby are reacting, doesn't mean there's nothing far away that's equally or more powerful than the nearby actors.

Your argument functions three distinct principles being true: 1) that Kralkatorrik's current actions are devastating to the multiverse, 2) that continent-threatening actions in the Mists reverberate across the multiverse, and 3) that powerful beings in the Mists can sense these reverberations almost immediately.

Kralkatorrik may be "going to destroy absolutely everything" (presuming that Blish and Snaff are right about this, and not merely talking about reality from the perspective of Tyrians), but he isn't close to doing so yet. So point 1 is not correct. And nothing suggests either points 2 or 3 are accurate.

Just because no one reacting when troubles begins, doesn't mean no one will react when trouble hits its high point, and doesn't mean that there's no one who can react.

[ugrakarma.9416]

Inst clear the "timeframe", the history is trying to tell us. No one knows if Kralkatorrik devouring reality is matter of hours, days or months.

Anyway the commander sent Rytlock to the mists, when I noticed this, things become more clear. We'll gonna see the"mysterious Rytlock trip to the mists" card played again.

The commander and others mentioning that they have "fix" it, tone down the gravity of the thing, a Elder Dragon goes into the fabric of reality and they just hope "fix it" like tighten screws?

[JTHMRulez.9378]

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@JTHMRulez.9378 said:

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@JTHMRulez.9378 said:

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

@JTHMRulez.9378 said:Indeed. But what I am trying to say is that certainly is there is any being with a power comparable or greater than his, by any means and logic, they would stop Kralkatorrik at the first chance they got.- The effects of him eating the magic of The Mists is none other than reality (Not Tyria, all of reality) being destroyed.Not necessarily. I mean, first of all, they have to learn about Kralkatorrik. You and a lot of people seem to be thinking of the Mists as something planetary, or solar system-y. But it's a full out

multiverse

. Practically infinitely huge. And Kralkatorrik is still nearby Tyria within the Mists.

Just because Kralk is in the Mists doesn't mean every being in existence will know 1) he is there, 2) he poses a threat to all reality, 3) how strong he is or can become. Regardless of power levels.

Besides that, Snaff and co. are talking about Kralkatorrik from the perspective of Tyrias. It might not even be possible for Kralkatorrik to consume the entire multiverse.

@JTHMRulez.9378 said:I am aware of Demons existence, they are just not comparable to Kralkatorrik in terms of power so I did not compare them.I am also aware of the sheer size of the Mists. The Mists are big enough that connect multiple alternative timelines around the multiverse.- Yet, there is something important here and is that Kralkatorrik isn't a threat to "Tyria" or "The Mists" he is a threat to reality itself. Two times (I screenshot them) is explicitly said that Kralkatorrik will tear apart all of reality, not just Tyria. Which is why I am saying that, if there any beings stronger than Kralkatorrik, they would stop at nothing because such a cataclysmic event would not be unknown to them.

If you go down a street, are you to know that the sniper down the block in the 10 story building has you in their sights? Would you know about the guy setting up a bomb under the car across the street if you don't look that way? Would you know that the guy casually strolling towards you has a pistol under his jacket and intends to pull it out once he passes you?

Just because Kralkatorrik is a potential threat to all existence and will become a definitive one if left alone while residing in the Mists, doesn't mean everyone who lives in the Mists will know about Kralkatorrik's existence, let alone that he threatens them. Doesn't even mean that Tyria's proverbial next door neighbors do, especially if they see Kralkatorrik as a lesser at the moment, without knowing that Kralk can gain power by consuming the magic of the Mists.

Thing is.- First of all, the Mists is not a street, and the (powerful) beings who live there aren't me. They are certainly more perceptive and I am sure that if a couple of Asura can notice he is tearing reality appear, any "trans-dimensional" or "multiversal" beings around can certainly notice that, well, reality is going to blow apart. The example isn't really that accurate since Kralkatorrik is not going to bomb "Tyria and the Mists close to it." He is going to destroy absolutely everything. And such a hole in reality is hard to not notice.

Blish and Taimi noticed because we actively investigated what Kralkatorrik was doing, because we've been keeping tabs on Kralkatorrik from the get go (and Kralkatorrik showed us his hand).

This won't be true for beings near other worlds, and the Mists don't seem to be something where the entire multiverse will know if something happens in one corner of it. If that were so, we'd probably have been screwed when Abaddon tried to merge the Mists with Tyria. Just because something is happening and no one but those nearby are reacting, doesn't mean there's nothing far away that's equally or more powerful than the nearby actors.

Your argument functions three distinct principles being true: 1) that Kralkatorrik's current actions are devastating to the multiverse, 2) that continent-threatening actions in the Mists reverberate across the multiverse, and 3) that powerful beings in the Mists can sense these reverberations almost immediately.

Kralkatorrik may be "going to destroy absolutely everything" (presuming that Blish and Snaff are right about this, and not merely talking about reality from the perspective of Tyrians), but he isn't close to doing so yet. So point 1 is not correct. And nothing suggests either points 2 or 3 are accurate.

Just because no one reacting when troubles begins, doesn't mean no one will react when trouble hits its high point, and doesn't mean that there's no one who can react.

I feel it's very unlikely that those "powerful trans-dimensional beings" who live inside the Mists are completely incapable of feeling such a menace there. Kralkatorrik is not a small salamander hissing in the corner of your house.- He is a Komodo Dragon that is growing to a T-Rex and will break your house over (If we want to go to examples.) It's even pointed out how Kralkatorrik's actions are not affection just Tyria (exemplified by the fungus coming from another universe entirely) but through all of reality.

That said.- I feel a little cheap that you try to desestimate my arguments under the assumption I am working on axioms that we know are true because of what we see in game.- When your entire argument ("There are more powerful beings in the Mists that can stomp Kralkatorrik before he threatens anything large") is, by all means and accords, pure speculation based on the size of the Mists. Something that, well, it is logical to some extend but that we haven't seen portrayed yet in game. That said, once more, we have no reason to believe that Blish and Snaff are wrong and they are refering to Tyria and the surroundings when they speak about Kralkatorrik tearing reality apart, something that I consider ilogical because, once again, we have clear evidence that it's not the case because Kralkatorrik's rips through reality are all over space and time. We also know that Snaff came from the Mists, so his perspective ins't solely based on Tyria's earthly realm.

Basically, you are acussing me of using speculative principles as axioms when your whole argument is a speculative principle.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

@JTHMRulez.9378 said:I feel it's very unlikely that those "powerful trans-dimensional beings" who live inside the Mists are completely incapable of feeling such a menace there. Kralkatorrik is not a small salamander hissing in the corner of your house.- He is a Komodo Dragon that is growing to a T-Rex and will break your house over (If we want to go to examples.) It's even pointed out how Kralkatorrik's actions are not affection just Tyria (exemplified by the fungus coming from another universe entirely) but through all of reality.

To use your analogy, Kralkatorrik is a Komodo Dragon that just broke out of the zoo, and there's a T-Rex on the other side of the complex down the street from the zoo.

Why would the T-Rex know about the Komodo Dragon?

@JTHMRulez.9378 said:That said.- I feel a little cheap that you try to desestimate my arguments under the assumption I am working on axioms that we know are true because of what we see in game.-

Except that it isn't known to be true that if you're in the Mists and you're powerful, you can feel and know everything else in the Mists that is attempting to damage the Mists. There is literally nothing to support such a claim either way.

@JTHMRulez.9378 said:When your entire argument ("There are more powerful beings in the Mists that can stomp Kralkatorrik before he threatens anything large") is, by all means and accords, pure speculation based on the size of the Mists.

I never used those words, and I never denied that it's theoretical (though technically, it isn't, as we know the Six Gods are on par to the Elder Dragons, and they're in the Mists; and we have demons like Mallyx, Menzies, and the Dreadspawn Maw who threaten the gods and their domains, so by logic, such beings can threaten Kralkatorrik).

What I denied is your statement that there absolutely cannot be such beings.

@JTHMRulez.9378 said:That said, once more, we have no reason to believe that Blish and Snaff are wrong and they are refering to Tyria and the surroundings when they speak about Kralkatorrik tearing reality apart, something that I consider ilogical because, once again, we have clear evidence that it's not the case because Kralkatorrik's rips through reality are all over space and time. We also know that Snaff came from the Mists, so his perspective ins't solely based on Tyria's earthly realm.

We have no real reason to believe they are right, and while Snaff comes from the Mists, he specifically comes from Tyria's afterlives, so he's still limited to a Tyrian perspective to a degree.

And to clarify, none of my arguments have presumed the absolute. While yours has. You've been saying that there cannot be beings in the Mists that are on par or more powerful than Kralkatorrik, simply because no such being has moved against Kralkatorrik.

I've said that maybe Blish and Snaff are either 1) not saying that the entire multiverse is at risk when they say "reality", or b) are saying that but, whether they realize it or not, are incorrect about the claim and that in both cases 1 and b, it's just Tyria and the surrounding Mists/afterlives at risk. I've said that maybe there are powerful beings out there, because we know that there are the Six Gods and there are beings that have threatened the Six Gods' domains.

[Annatar.8175]

About killing Kralkatorrik within the Mist being safe in terms of the effects on Tyria.The only other instance of a cataclysmic event we had - against Abaddon in Guild Wars Nightfall - yes, killing someone inside the Mists and releasing the magic they wield can affect Tyria.Kralkatorrik's magic would be absorbed by Aurene as Abaddon's magic was taken by Kormir, but what escaped Kormir was still enough to stir Primordus. With the high levels of magic running free in Tyria now - and with Kralkatorrik's share of magic likely being much more than Abaddon's back in time - Kralkatorrik's clash against other extremely powerful magic holders like the Six could be hugely disruptive for Tyria.

About the Elder Dragons relationship to the All.From what is stated in-game, I don't think that being an Elder Dragon and a pillar of the All is an intrinsic feature that has to be somehow acquired.The role of 'Elder Dragon' is one of 'breathe in/breath out' magic, allowing magic to cycle. Possibly, anyone able to do that on a massive scale is a candidate to fulfill the position of an 'Elder Dragon'. Of course, dragons are by themselves powerful beings who naturally eats and release magic - making them ideal for the role. So, likely it's just a matter of how much magic Aurene can eventually accumulate within herself. Glint was 'well on her way' to become an Elder Dragon (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hidden_Arcana), possibly limited by magic flow being low at the time.This means that Aurene could become an Elder Dragon too, given enough time and magic to feed on - without the need to actually kill Kralkatorrik, especially since Zhaitan's and Mordremoth's deaths opened 'vacancies'. It's just that Kralkatorrik's extreme actions now require its removal and Aurene is the only mean we know to contain the resulting damage. It is hard to speculate how the 'Weapon' from Vlast's memories relates - if it even does - to that.

[Overlord RainyDay.2084]

@"Aaron Ansari.1604" said:And whether the Staff is intact. Remember, we took it to that point for the specific purpose of using the location to destroy it. It'd be a bit of a kitten pull to suddenly backtrack on that and say the Staff is fine.

GW1 didn't really go too in-depth on the destructive features of Hallowed Point which looked like just a cliff over an area of very high sulfur concentration (which admittedly, was much more deadly back then). It's not like this was LOTR and we chucked it into molten lava, but even if we had, it's not like that's the end for even reasonably mundane artifacts. I'd say there's a chance it could be retrieved if we maybe had the help of one of the original heroes of Nightfall present at its disposal and the help of some spirits who specialize in recovering artifacts.

[Imba.9451]

I think it is quite safe to assume that the story didn't went to the mists for nothing, or to show off how cool and mysterious the mists are.They plan to do something there, and assuming this to be something we wouldn't see on Tyria seems likely.

So, what comes to mind?First and most obvious are the gods. Assuming they'd be a cheap deus ex machina who nuke Kralk into Oblivion while we chill on the sidelines a a tranformed Quaggan is taking it to far though. Storywriting in Fantasy, especially here after they opened the mists-can, has ways to expand their possibilities. Possible scenarios are the gods needing you to enable them, the PC using Balthasars power to fight alongside the gods, Lyssa appearing and finally making me able to say "I told you so!", etc.

But there are many other inhabitants of the mists. If Anet wants to (re)introduce any race, now'd be the perfect time. (Please let it be Mursaat...) This also gives them the ability to set sail for another destination, moving away from killing elder dragons and introduing a new threat. I just hope that doesn't get too out of hand and reveals that Tyria is just a giant space-egg for some great one, yadda yadda.

I said it before, and I say it again: Seeing Mursaat redeeming themselves by fighting on your side against Kralk in the Mists would be awesome.

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

@Imba.9451 said:I said it before, and I say it again: Seeing Mursaat redeeming themselves by fighting on your side against Kralk in the Mists would be awesome.Nothing the Mursaat do to fight the Elder Dragons would redeem them because they wouldn't be doing it out of pity, or compassion, or care for any other species. It would be an entirely selfish act to save their own ass.

This also gives them the ability to set sail for another destination, moving away from killing elder dragons and introduing a new threat.They will move away from killing Elder Dragons when there are no more left we kill. Even if we replace Kralaktorik this season that still leaves Jormag, Primordus, and bubbles.

[Imba.9451]

@Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

@"Imba.9451" said:I said it before, and I say it again: Seeing Mursaat redeeming themselves by fighting on your side against Kralk in the Mists would be awesome.Nothing the Mursaat do to fight the Elder Dragons would redeem them because they wouldn't be doing it out of pity, or compassion, or care for any other species. It would be an entirely selfish act to save their own kitten.

Like I said, depends on the writing.Also, a shaky ally would be a nice touch in the current "all the races holding hands" scenario we have right now.

This also gives them the ability to set sail for another destination, moving away from killing elder dragons and introduing a new threat.They will move away from killing Elder Dragons when there are no more left we kill. Even if we replace Kralaktorik this season that still leaves Jormag, Primordus, and bubbles.

With the former 2 asleep, posing no actual threat. Just liek they didn't during GW1.

[Dante.1763]

@Imba.9451 said:

@Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

@Imba.9451 said:I said it before, and I say it again: Seeing Mursaat redeeming themselves by fighting on your side against Kralk in the Mists would be awesome.Nothing the Mursaat do to fight the Elder Dragons would redeem them because they wouldn't be doing it out of pity, or compassion, or care for any other species. It would be an entirely selfish act to save their own kitten.

Like I said, depends on the writing.Also, a shaky ally would be a nice touch in the current "all the races holding hands" scenario we have right now.

This also gives them the ability to set sail for another destination, moving away from killing elder dragons and introduing a new threat.They will move away from killing Elder Dragons when there are no more left we kill. Even if we replace Kralaktorik this season that still leaves Jormag, Primordus, and bubbles.

With the former 2 asleep, posing no actual threat. Just liek they didn't during GW1.

Problem is the mursaats are all dead. If they still existed the Eye Of Janthir also would still exist as it was tied to their existence.

[Walhalla.5473]

@Imba.9451 said:With the former 2 asleep, posing no actual threat. Just liek they didn't during GW1.

And those 2 can still wake up any time in the near future. So we shouldn't write them off completely.

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

@Imba.9451 said:With the former 2 asleep, posing no actual threat. Just liek they didn't during GW1.That's not really an argument given that, unlike in GW1, where they were still asleep as part of their natural cycle, and had no minions out in the world to give them magic to feed on(besides the comparatively small group of destroyers we fight in Eye of the North), both Jormag and Primordus have an entire army's worth of minions, and multiple champions, out there that can bring them magic and reawaken them the moment the plot demands it.

Its pretty obvious they are going to reawaken so we can have an excuse to go to the Far Shvierpeaks/Blood Legion Homelands/Verdant Cascades region, and underground, so we can get that Norn, Charr, and Asura lore.

[Castigator.3470]

@Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:They will move away from killing Elder Dragons when there are no more left we kill. Even if we replace Kralaktorik this season that still leaves Jormag, Primordus, and bubbles.I suppose we could have a chat with Bubbles. Maybe Steve is actually quite nice, except to quaggan and krait. Primordus seems a bit like a hermit, if his minions are anything to go by, then Primordus is not a people person, eh dragon. Maybe he'll talk to Aurene?

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

@Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

@"Imba.9451" said:With the former 2 asleep, posing no actual threat. Just liek they didn't during GW1.That's not really an argument given that, unlike in GW1, where they were still asleep as part of their natural cycle, and had no minions out in the world to give them magic to feed on(besides the comparatively small group of destroyers we fight in Eye of the North), both Jormag and Primordus have an entire army's worth of minions, and multiple champions, out there that can bring them magic and reawaken them the moment the plot demands it.

Its pretty obvious they are going to reawaken so we can have an excuse to go to the Far Shvierpeaks/Blood Legion Homelands/Verdant Cascades region, and underground, so we can get that Norn, Charr, and Asura lore.

I would disagree. The way the plot is going, it honestly feels like we're ramping to the end of GW2's plot, at least the ED plot. It'll be very hard to top "Elder Dragon threatening the existence of all reality" that they got going on. I would not be surprised if after Kralkatorrik's death in Season 4, we'll go to a non-ED plot for Season 5, and then end the game with the third expansion (and its following LW Season?) with the deep sea dragon.

Like you said, they'll reawaken the moment the plot demands it. But what if the plot (of GW2) never does?

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:I would disagree. The way the plot is going, it honestly feels like we're ramping to the end of GW2's plot, at least the ED plot. It'll be very hard to top "Elder Dragon threatening the existence of all reality" that they got going on. I would not be surprised if after Kralkatorrik's death in Season 4, we'll go to a non-ED plot for Season 5, and then end the game with the third expansion (and its following LW Season?) with the deep sea dragon.

Like you said, they'll reawaken the moment the plot demands it. But what if the plot (of GW2) never does?I don't see it like that at all. Kralk is pretty powerful, but there's a million other ways they could mcguffin the other Elder Dragons to be just as powerful. See, the great thing about the Elder Dragon plot is that for every Elder Dragon that dies, the other Elder Dragons get that much more powerful by eating their energy. Even if Aurene takes in the core of Kralk's dragon-ness, and his connection to "The All", the other Elder Dragons would likely take in a lot of his magic powers.

We have already seen Primordus get death and planet magic, now imagine him getting crystal magic, as well as a chunk of Kralk's mist traversal. Kralk can go in an eat the mists, and there's some portals in Elona, but that's still a heavily limited concern in terms of how visible it is on Tyria itself. Imagine Pridmordus waking up with all that power, and now there are planetary earthquakes, and tons of hidden volcano going off and level huge chunks of land, far beyond anything we have seen before. It may not be as large of a threat as Kralk eating the Mists, but its certainly more of an obvious one.

Not to mention, leaving them alive would be Anet saying that they don't care about any of the plot threads they have established. Jormag and Primordus being asleep isn't a victory for the Pact, or the 5 races, since they will wake up at some point, and try this crap all over again. If you have the alliance to take them down now, why wouldn't you do it? Especially since they are asleep, and thus vulnerable, giving you a great edge in fighting them. Not to mention, it would be basically throwing Glint's entire plan, and the whole point of everything we have done with Aurene, out the window. You aren't ending the Elder Dragons cycle of destruction and power hoarding by leaving them alive. Replacing one of them isn't a solution to the problem, its just the start of fixing it.

[Fenom.9457]

I would disagree. The way the plot is going, it honestly feels like we're ramping to the end of GW2's plot, at least the ED plot. It'll be very hard to top "Elder Dragon threatening the existence of all reality" that they got going on. I would not be surprised if after Kralkatorrik's death in Season 4, we'll go to a non-ED plot for Season 5, and then end the game with the third expansion (and its following LW Season?) with the deep sea dragon.

I don’t know why people endlessly insist that the plot is gonna end and GW3 is coming. Games don’t really do constant sequels anymore, AAA games just update forever. There was even an interview for the 6th anniversary where someone asked where they see GW2 in another 6 years and they said they want it to be doing the same thing it is now, releasing good updates often. There is no end in sight

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

@Fenom.9457 said:I don’t know why people endlessly insist that the plot is gonna end and GW3 is coming. Games don’t really do constant sequels anymore, AAA games just update forever. There was even an interview for the 6th anniversary where someone asked where they see GW2 in another 6 years and they said they want it to be doing the same thing it is now, releasing good updates often. There is no end in sightSo much this.

Hell, Star Trek Online is over 8.5 years old, MUCH less successful then GW2 is, and they are coming out with their FIFTH expansion this October, with plans for even more content after that. Unless Anet pulls the plug themselves, Gw2 will likely still be active in another 6 years. You have to tank a game pretty hard for it to be canned in this day and age.