Episode 4: thread for spoilers and comments.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

@"cptaylor.2670" said:Why do people feel the need to write a thesis picking apart every other word of someone's post in every thread? I guess people just make rando decisions sometimes.If you think seven sentences is a thesis, I feel sorry for your college education.

@"cptaylor.2670" said:And is Dragon's Watch missing a token Elonian or something? I never got that impression. But maybe, just tie it in in the future.Do the members need to be "token" in the first place? But the purpose of the "main group" (first DE and now DW) does seem to be representing the people of Tyria, from one viewpoint of their 'purpose' that is. So an Elonian representative makes sense. But I doubt that was why they decided to include Zafira into the group, let alone design the character.

She represents the humane side of those who sided with Balthazar and had worshiped Balthazar, a good contrast to the immediate and apparently global blackwashing of the priesthood of Balthazar. I mean, the first instance we get of Balthazar priests post reveal was this instance which turns the open world priest that talks about not rushing into battle, into someone who a bloodcrazed fanatic who tries taunting people into fighting pointlessly.

This is a bit retroactive, but Zafira is giving the priesthood of Balthazar much needed shades of gray and morality after the fiasco of blackwashing Balthaddon.

@Aaron Ansari.1604 said:(She is also another major step down whatever character arc the devs have set up for the Commander. She threw several of the same accusations that Joko did, and, at least for male sylvari, the voice acting was openly emotional while we were pleading with her to work with us.)

Male charr also gave the impression of the Commander being somewhat emotional. Not openly, per se, but a decent amount so fitting for a charr who's getting emotional.

@"derd.6413" said:the spirits of the wild show up in the physical realm all the time. Wolf appears on top of a shrine in wayfarers foothills during a certain event. and iirc the spirits attacked jormag in order to protect the norn, jormag didn't go after the spirits inside the mists

Technically, we don't know if Spirit of Wolf is the same as Wolf Spirit.Given Wolf Spirit uses a white wolf model, while Spirit of Wold uses a gray wolf model, it probably isn't.

We do see Bear, Wolf, and Snow Leopard in the PS for a moment though, and they, along with Raven who is oddly absent from that PS instance (replaced with 'Vision of Raven'), are still in communication with their havrouns, but afaik they don't appear in the open world.

[Bast.7253]

Seems like odd timing to introduce someone to Dragon's Watch. Doesn't seem like enough time to really incorporate them into the story and build up a relationship with the rest of them assuming we are leaving Elona after season 4. But there's no indication we are or aren't, so who knows. I suppose the closure to the Balthazar plot would be something people were interested in so this gave on opportunity to tie up a loose end in that regard.

Also, I wasn't referring solely to this post. But as I've said time and time before and should really stop bothering, it's more the nitpicking of every last word in some attempt to feel superior. But I'm sure it just boils down to two people having vastly different and abrasive personalities. I would obviously never expect to compare my intellect to yours, especially with my poor educational background. I'm sure even Taimi would pale in comparison!

Speaking of Taimi, I wonder if the experiences she's had with Blish so far will impact her potential consideration of Mind-Golem integration. I think I would choose death.

[Genesis.8572]

@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:And she isn't really "rando" (why do people feel the need to shorten a word by one letter? It only makes them look dumber...) since she's got an established backstory from the very beginning; her reasons for joining are established right off the bat."Random" -> the phrase "Rando Calrissian" (and the boardgame variant, "Rando Cardrissian") in reference to Lando Calrissian, generally taken to refer to a new character unexpectedly added to the cast -> shortened to simply "Rando". That's probably the long story short of it. Make of that what you will.

Any expansion of LWS4-5 will likely deal with the fallout of Kraalkatorik's death. And that may be the different twist on the new expansion. Expansion 1: kill an ED. Expansion 2: stop a god from killing an ED. Expansion 3: mortal villain takes advantage of ED's death.

So I increasingly wonder if we will deal with the scenario of Bangar Ruinbringer wanting to backtrack on human relations in the absence of two of the three biggest pretexts for the ceasefire/treaty being significantly negated: Flame Legion and Kraalkatorik.

[Michram.6853]

@Chorne.8195 Caithe 'does absolutely nothing' because as you later said it was a cliffhanger...

Caithe said that she can help us finding Aurene.

She was always watching, I think since PoF and saw we did not need any help from her, so she was in shadows.

Now when everything seems to be falling apart, Caithe revealed herself.

Caithe never left Aurene, but as always she helps when everything is about to collapse.

So its just normal Caithe's behaviour. :D

[Aeon.4583]

@draxynnic.3719 said:Yeah, she sees future in which Commander kinda dead, not involved in anything, invisible hidden from sight, not interacting with World. Like in Dune books there were people wilth premonition-immunity. They been able to create non-seen futures. If that wasn't arena net idea, than they should feel free to use it =)@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:Like i said, maybe it's just Seperate-Cinematics. But Commander's death experience should be and must be exploited further. Scarab Plague Immunity was one side-effects, turn out to be benefit. There need to be others.

• Primeval Queens have noticed 'Death Stench' on Commander.
• Joko were obsessed with Commander.
• Mario Mushsroom were mocking Commander about been dead.
• Commander seems to be one of few, who died and returned back to life into his\her own physical body.

Field for alot of ideas.

[Michram.6853]

@Aeon.4583 said:

@draxynnic.3719 said:Yeah, she sees future in which Commander kinda dead, not involved in anything, invisible hidden from sight, not interacting with World. Like in Dune books there were people wilth premonition-immunity. They been able to create non-seen futures. If that wasn't arena net idea, than they should feel free to use it =)@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:Like i said, maybe it's just Seperate-Cinematics. But Commander's death experience should be and must be exploited further. Scarab Plague Immunity was one side-effects, turn out to be benefit. There need to be others.

• Primeval Queens have noticed 'Death Stench' on Commander.
• Joko were obsessed with Commander.
• Mario Mushsroom were mocking Commander about been dead.
• Commander seems to be one of few, who died and returned back to life into his\her own physical body.

Field for alot of ideas.

One of the loose plots: We were supposed to tell Kito about how it is afterlife.

Maybe we'll one day return to this plot.

[Genesis.8572]

I kinda hope we move past the whole "we died" thing. It was neat when it happened, but constantly harping on about it turns the PC into a one-trick pony. It's about like enduring the non-stop yapping about "the Hero of Shaemoor."

[Yannir.4132]

@"Aeon.4583" said:Like i said, maybe it's just Seperate-Cinematics. But Commander's death experience should be and must be exploited further. Scarab Plague Immunity was one side-effects, turn out to be benefit. There need to be others.

• Primeval Queens have noticed 'Death Stench' on Commander.
• Joko were obsessed with Commander.
• Mario Mushsroom were mocking Commander about been dead.
• Commander seems to be one of few, who died and returned back to life into his\her own physical body.

Field for alot of ideas.

It's not as big of a deal as it sounds actually. Back in GW1 the main character died and was resurrected constantly, along with other major characters. Resurrection was a not-uncommon occurrence back then. It's just with the human gods first receding and then leaving altogether that this ability has been essentially lost, as I think it's origins were always within Divine Magic. That's why our modern GW2 characters are merely "defeated", not dead. But as our our resurrection in the mission The Departing is caused by Divine Magic, it actually makes perfect sense. What the full consequence of that is, is a mystery yet, but the reason it happened is not.

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

Great release IMO, some of the best they have ever done in LW. Though that Aurene vision cutscene was really low quality.

Looking at the map, it seems pretty likely that the next release area will take place around the old Marga Coast and Sunward Marches, area. There's an obvious connection point in both the Sun's Refuge, and the Jahai Bluffs map proper, leading in that direction. IT would allow follow with the overall idea of moving closer to Kralkatorik's "nest" on top of the mountain, and now that they dealt with the elephant in the room(or should I saw Koss in the cave) and had Koss leave his cave and join up with us, I would be suprised if they didn't so a small moment of Koss going to Ronjok, since that is where Melonni was born.

I'm also left wondering what he talked to Thalkora about, since he says he doesn't want to talk about it when he comes back.

[Hadlefa.3716]

I enjoyed it but I was bothered by one thing. From my understanding, the elder dragons are supposed to be genderless. I believe the PC when referring to Kralk following Aurene says "He's hunting her". Does that mean Kralk is male per the lore?

[ThatOddOne.4387]

It's just easier to refer to them that way.

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

Generally speaking, if the gender of something is unknown, or it has none, you refer to it as a he since they genderless term of "they" implies more then one thing in most cases. A notable exception being vehicles, be they cars, ships, etc., those are typically referred to as "she"

[derd.6413]

@"Hadlefa.3716" said:I enjoyed it but I was bothered by one thing. From my understanding, the elder dragons are supposed to be genderless. I believe the PC when referring to Kralk following Aurene says "He's hunting her". Does that mean Kralk is male per the lore?

because if you don't know the gender/ there is no gender most ppl refere to it as a he

[Hadlefa.3716]

@"derd.6413" said:because if you don't know the gender/ there is no gender most ppl refere to it as a he

Yeah that's true in rl most of the time, but in game the EDs have not been referred to using male pronouns as far as I remember until this episode. They were called "it".

[perilisk.1874]

@"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:Do the members need to be "token" in the first place? But the purpose of the "main group" (first DE and now DW) does seem to be representing the people of Tyria, from one viewpoint of their 'purpose' that is.

Looks like they're now going for professional rather than racial representation. Assuming Canach is a warrior and Taimi is an engineer, then all we're missing is an elementalist now.

[Aeon.4583]

You know, i am kinda frustrated with rest of Six Gods. Last time God died on Tyria, they had chosen mortal to contain his released Magic. This time they just left it there, and run away. And now... we have a God-Dragon.

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

@Aeon.4583 said:You know, i am kinda frustrated with rest of Six Gods. Last time God died on Tyria, they had chosen mortal to contain his released Magic. This time they just left it there, and run away. And now... we have a God-Dragon.Except the gods took all of Balthazar's god magic and put it in someone else before they imprisoned him. They aren't responsible for all the non-god magic he adsorbed after he was free.

[Aeon.4583]

@Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:Except the gods took all of Balthazar's god magic and put it in someone else before they imprisoned him. They aren't responsible for all the non-god magic he adsorbed after he was free.Rytlock Brimstone: We only handed an Elder Dragon the energy of a god. What could go wrong? ;)

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

@"Aeon.4583" said:Rytlock Brimstone: We only handed an Elder Dragon the energy of a god. What could go wrong? ;)Yes, because Balthazar was a god, a de-powered one, but still one none the less.

The energy we handed over was a mix of Bloodstone, Jormag, and Primordus, not actual "god" magic. But it was still Balthazar's, and he was a god.

[Genesis.8572]

@Aeon.4583 said:Rytlock Brimstone: We only handed an Elder Dragon the energy of a god. What could go wrong? ;)I was not aware that Rytlock had replaced Taimi as the brains and loremaster of the group.

[Eekasqueak.7850]

@Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

@"Aeon.4583" said:Rytlock Brimstone: We only handed an Elder Dragon the energy of a god. What could go wrong? ;)Yes, because Balthazar was a god, a de-powered one, but still one none the less.

The energy we handed over was a mix of Bloodstone, Jormag, and Primordus, not actual "god" magic. But it was still Balthazar's, and he was a god.

He had enough left over to make mist portals though so we can assume he had -some- god magic or mists magic left.

[ugrakarma.9416]

@Aaron Ansari.1604 said:I suspect Zafirah will have more to do than just representing Elona in our party. I had a similar skepticism about Blish when he was introduced, but his particular combination of knowledge and traits just proved to be central to the plot twice over. If I had to guess, I'd say we're not done with exploring Balthazar's shenanigans, and someone who was actually tied to them is a good pick to help us navigate them.

(She is also another major step down whatever character arc the devs have set up for the Commander. She threw several of the same accusations that Joko did, and, at least for male sylvari, the voice acting was openly emotional while we were pleading with her to work with us.)

Overall, my initial impression is balanced between enjoying this episode (and being pleasantly surprised by how much there actually was to this one) and wondering if this is going to wind up being the moment where I decide they've jumped the shark. I'll get more into that tomorrow, though; for now, the one thing I am well and truly miffed about, that hasn't been brought up- why didn't Zojja get to be there to see Snaff?

Shes very well introduced to be just a random companion, i hope we get more of her. unless anet(again) drop a interesting character. What gives me hope is that this episode they seem to have really read the criticism.

[ugrakarma.9416]

They seem to have perfected the companions' screen-time distribution.

As @Konig Des Todes.2086 often notes, in the PoF Anet has learned that it is better to have few companions, at max 3.

In this episode, Anet seems to have experienced the comander not staying all the time with the same companions, alternating the screen time.

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

@Eekasqueak.7850 said:He had enough left over to make mist portals though so we can assume he had -some- god magic or mists magic left.I always considered that just part of his innate powers, rather then his god magic. We see mortals open portals to the Mists(difficulty), so it isn't something that just belongs to him and other gods. Kormir could cast magic before she became a god, and if she was stripped of her god powers she would likely still be able to as well because that magic wasn't from god power, but rather from her own natural magic. Balthazar, being a former god, would have knowledge of spells and powers that no mortal does, and likely knows how to cast them better as well. So I always just assumed that was his personal magic skill/magic, and not his godly magic.

[Aeon.4583]

@Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:So I always just assumed that was his personal magic skill/magic, and not his godly magic.

Balthazar was born a God, unlike Grenth who was originally a Half-God and Kormir who was born mortal. So, personal Balthazar magic sounds like pure God's magic. Eaten by Dragon in process.