Superior Sigil of Nullification [Merged]

[Bloodstealer.5978]

@Andy.5981 said:The real devil hiding behind the curtain in all of this isn't someone who has purchased all the Sigils. It is Anet itself - well to be more specific, someone within the design team who signed this off.

Someone worked on the 'ingredients' for each armour piece. I'm fairly sure they did an average cost for each component and said 'well that's about right for each piece'.

Unfortunately they picked a sigil that really has no guaranteed replacement supply on the scale that is required. Sure I get that people can use Tomes of Knowledge, but do you honestly think Anet wanted us to do that?

There are I believe only two possibilities. Either Anet either intended this to be a gold sink from the beginning or they made an honest mistake. Either way I think the player base needs to hear from them.

This LW episode is probably one of the best they've ever done. Sadly as the players progress through the content, doing the achievements etc., they're going to hit this block. It certainly puts a dampener on what is otherwise entertaining content.

Agree some really enjoyable content, a good map design and a mix of easily obtainable achievs to some longer term ones.. then the blocker.It was no mistake, it was obviously designed to be a goldsink and a way to cull some of those overly hoarded items with little use like the tomes.. but the gold sink does nothing to help newer players and the grindfest bestowed upon us all won't take long to kill interest in the map or game. Farming all the mistonium needed will take a week, maybe 3 but to stock up on all the amalga gems and the sigils is going to hurt .. a lot, unless your resort to buying.. and there in lies the gem behind the armor grind imo.Retaining players in game grinding long enough provides the opportunity for the gem store to work its magic with rolling sales and new items, then when the grind wears thin on players the gemstore provides the means to buy and convert then purchase off the TP. either way it's a win-win.This is the kind of tactic that can only hurt an MMO's numbers longer term as we tire of the constant 2nd job requirement and credit card swipes.

[Bloodstealer.5978]

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

@Andy.5981 said:...This LW episode is probably one of the best they've ever done. Sadly as the players progress through the content, doing the achievements etc., they're going to hit this block. It certainly puts a dampener on what is otherwise entertaining content.

This has been my point from the start. Being halted in your enjoyment of the game to either 1) farm gold to buy the sigils, the price of which has exploded due to greed, 2) Tome level a spare character slot to lvl64 dozens of times or 3) Wait a month for the price to come down is just not intelligent design whatsoever. Even if they wanted it to be time-gated, they could just put an arbitrary item purchasable once per day like Traders Keys.

I wouldn't go so far as to say greed is the issue.. when anything gets entered into game to craft, purchase etc there will always be spiking and chancers.. that's expected. But to make it such an uphill block is just plain not fun. The amount of those sigils is ridiculous just for a single set.... let alone each weight class... on top of the already long term farming for other items in game using similar materials, like legendries (leather, ecto's, amlga gems etc).. its just gone grindfest crazy now and what decent story and fun maps they put in is quickly lost and swamped by the need to go endlessly farm again and again.

[Lord of the Fire.6870]

ups here was nonsense

[Zorn.9041]

I am voting with my wallet, not buying any more gems until they fix the sigil issue.

[Malediktus.9250]

@Zorn.9041 said:I am voting with my wallet, not buying any more gems until they fix the sigil issue.

Out of all the issues the game has, this is probably one of the most insignificant ones

[Bloodstealer.5978]

@Malediktus.9250 said:

@Zorn.9041 said:I am voting with my wallet, not buying any more gems until they fix the sigil issue.

Out of all the issues the game has, this is probably one of the most insignificant ones

Only insignificant if you have in game resources to throw at the forge, or buy at elevated prices on the TP.. new players and players with less disposable income may see this as a barrier that stretches just too far... Of all the issues in game this is one of those that can be just as progress blocking, immersion breaking and tiresome to overcome as any other imo.. so I don't blame the poster for taking that stance one iota.

[La Sirena.6873]

Just finished the collection and got the heavy armor skins.The skin is worth it but it was no fun collection just lots of time and money sink.They should at least reduce it to 1 or 2 a pieces 35, wouldvbe been unpayable for me.Luckily I had enough lvl tomes around so I could get it done with buying very few on tp.They should make a way to turn this armor in ascended and later in legendary, with not so boring annoying collections.Also to get the Mistonium is very awful. Very slow compared to other maps.And map completion requires first story instance which sucks because it eats up time and is boring once youve already seen it.A little fine tune wouldn`t hurt especially not to annoy newer players and make them move on to other games.Just my 2 cents.

[Malediktus.9250]

@Bloodstealer.5978 said:

@Malediktus.9250 said:

@Zorn.9041 said:I am voting with my wallet, not buying any more gems until they fix the sigil issue.

Out of all the issues the game has, this is probably one of the most insignificant ones

Only insignificant if you have in game resources to throw at the forge, or buy at elevated prices on the TP.. new players and players with less disposable income may see this as a barrier that stretches just too far... Of all the issues in game this is one of those that can be just as progress blocking, immersion breaking and tiresome to overcome as any other imo.. so I don't blame the poster for taking that stance one iota.

I havent bought a single one on the trading post. I had some in bank because I never throw cheap superior runes and sigils away. The rest I got from creating a few new characters with lvl up books and mystic forging rare sigils instead of vendoring them.

Also what is wrong with needing to put in some effort into the ultimate reward of this living story episode? It is not even a week old and people already despair if they havent unlocked it. It will probably take 3 months until we see something new.

[Loosmaster.8263]

After reading about all of this, I looked in my inventory and found 2 sitting in my bank. Thanks for the 16g!!!

[Ayrilana.1396]

@La Sirena.6873 said:

@Haleydawn.3764 said:

@"Clyan.1593" said:How many do you need of them for all armor sets?Is it only 25 for the first and then the rest don't require them anymore?Or is it 75 in total?

The price yesterday was 11g for one lol.

25 total, the other 12 armor pieces you can buy for Mistonium + Ectoplasm.

Hi must corect you there its 5 for 5 armor pieces and 10 for the first son in total 35.

25

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Sigil_of_Nullification#Vendors

Just finished the collection and got the heavy armor skins.The skin is worth it but it was no fun collection just lots of time and money sink.They should at least reduce it to 1 or 2 a pieces 35, wouldvbe been unpayable for me.Luckily I had enough lvl tomes around so I could get it done with buying very few on tp.They should make a way to turn this armor in ascended and later in legendary, with not so boring annoying collections.Also to get the Mistonium is very awful. Very slow compared to other maps.And map completion requires first story instance which sucks because it eats up time and is boring once youve already seen it.A little fine tune wouldn`t hurt especially not to annoy newer players and make them move on to other games.Just my 2 cents.

It’s slower because we have less hearts.

Typically a character with all of the waypoints can complete all three hearts in 8-10 min, depending on the RNG of events interfering with them, and obtain 15 mistonium.

A brand new character to the map, can generally complete the SW and NE hearts in about 10 min for 10 mistonium.

It’s still going to be a grind if you want to unlock all skins.

[Shikigami.4013]

I had 3 of them stored because I am a hoarder. I sold them all for around 13g each. Now they are down to 8g again. I like. Once I reach the point I need them they will be affordable again, because unlike some people I don't need to have everything right now and play through all the new content within a few days.

[Clyan.1593]

I mean I could just go to Jahai Bluffs with all toons and get 200 mistonium for map completion (25 for each hero) and then do all the hearts and buy 15 with each toon, giving me another 120. So 320 in total, and each day 120, making it a bit faster than if I was just farming it regularly. But still quite some work to get map completion with all of them and doing the hearts with each every day.

[La Sirena.6873]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@La Sirena.6873 said:

@Haleydawn.3764 said:

@"Clyan.1593" said:How many do you need of them for all armor sets?Is it only 25 for the first and then the rest don't require them anymore?Or is it 75 in total?

The price yesterday was 11g for one lol.

25 total, the other 12 armor pieces you can buy for Mistonium + Ectoplasm.

Hi must corect you there its 5 for 5 armor pieces and 10 for the first son in total 35.

25

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Sigil_of_Nullification#Vendors

Just finished the collection and got the heavy armor skins.The skin is worth it but it was no fun collection just lots of time and money sink.They should at least reduce it to 1 or 2 a pieces 35, wouldvbe been unpayable for me.Luckily I had enough lvl tomes around so I could get it done with buying very few on tp.They should make a way to turn this armor in ascended and later in legendary, with not so boring annoying collections.Also to get the Mistonium is very awful. Very slow compared to other maps.And map completion requires first story instance which sucks because it eats up time and is boring once youve already seen it.A little fine tune wouldn`t hurt especially not to annoy newer players and make them move on to other games.Just my 2 cents.

It’s slower because we have less hearts.

Typically a character with all of the waypoints can complete all three hearts in 8-10 min, depending on the RNG of events interfering with them, and obtain 15 mistonium.

A brand new character to the map, can generally complete the SW and NE hearts in about 10 min for 10 mistonium.

It’s still going to be a grind if you want to unlock all skins.

ok youre right the first doesnt need that. But with all the materials you need it doesnt change much.Heres a good guide better than wiki(even if there some errors with which heart vendor to buy from for the collection of the mist entangled item).http://dulfy.net/2018/09/18/gw2-elegy-and-requiem-armor-collection-guide/

[Ayrilana.1396]

@La Sirena.6873 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@La Sirena.6873 said:

@Haleydawn.3764 said:

@"Clyan.1593" said:How many do you need of them for all armor sets?Is it only 25 for the first and then the rest don't require them anymore?Or is it 75 in total?

The price yesterday was 11g for one lol.

25 total, the other 12 armor pieces you can buy for Mistonium + Ectoplasm.

Hi must corect you there its 5 for 5 armor pieces and 10 for the first son in total 35.

25

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Sigil_of_Nullification#Vendors

Just finished the collection and got the heavy armor skins.The skin is worth it but it was no fun collection just lots of time and money sink.They should at least reduce it to 1 or 2 a pieces 35, wouldvbe been unpayable for me.Luckily I had enough lvl tomes around so I could get it done with buying very few on tp.They should make a way to turn this armor in ascended and later in legendary, with not so boring annoying collections.Also to get the Mistonium is very awful. Very slow compared to other maps.And map completion requires first story instance which sucks because it eats up time and is boring once youve already seen it.A little fine tune wouldn`t hurt especially not to annoy newer players and make them move on to other games.Just my 2 cents.

It’s slower because we have less hearts.

Typically a character with all of the waypoints can complete all three hearts in 8-10 min, depending on the RNG of events interfering with them, and obtain 15 mistonium.

A brand new character to the map, can generally complete the SW and NE hearts in about 10 min for 10 mistonium.

It’s still going to be a grind if you want to unlock all skins.

ok youre right the first doesn

t need that. But with all the materials you need it doesn

t change much.Heres a good guide better than wiki(even if there some errors with which heart vendor to buy from for the collection of the mist entangled item).

http://dulfy.net/2018/09/18/gw2-elegy-and-requiem-armor-collection-guide/

Thanks for the link but I’ve already completed those collections including the one for all pieces of the requiem armor.

[Pifil.5193]

I had 14 in my bank from random weapons because I never throw things away, even if they are apparently useless (which is why my bank looks like a landfill and I had to use GW2efficiency to search for them) and I have enough Level boost scrolls from 5th and 6th birthdays to choke a goat. I'll use them to get the remaining 11 that I need and maybe even level a more few "burner" alts to 64 to get Sigil's to sell but I really wish they hadn't done it this way. (Incidentally, I notice you can't currently skip the character creation cutscene, I wonder if this has anything to do with that?)

I have no doubt that the decision to use Sigil's of Nullification was based purely on flavour, someone chose them because they sounded right for the device. I also have no doubt that they didn't consider the demand this would create or the trickle of supply that enters the game. I don't expect them to do anything now as that'd annoy anyone that has already spent possibly hundreds of gold on the collection but I do hope they'll remember this in the future and do this.

I don't believe in any way that this was intended as a gold sink. If it was intended as a gold sink then it's a poor one, as it doesn't actually remove the gold (apart from the listing fee), it transfers it to another player. A gold sink would look more like the Griffon collection's gold sinks: spend a flat amount of gold to buy something used only for the collection.

[Zorn.9041]

@"Pifil.5193" said:"I don't believe in any way that this was intended as a gold sink. If it was intended as a gold sink then it's a poor one, as it doesn't actually remove the gold (apart from the listing fee), it transfers it to another player. A gold sink would look more like the Griffon collection's gold sinks: spend a flat amount of gold to buy something used only for the collection."

Making it like this would have been a much better option. Make us earn and buy the components from NPC's. This gets the gold sink and still forces us to work to get it done.

[Bloodstealer.5978]

@Malediktus.9250 said:

@Bloodstealer.5978 said:

@Malediktus.9250 said:

@Zorn.9041 said:I am voting with my wallet, not buying any more gems until they fix the sigil issue.

Out of all the issues the game has, this is probably one of the most insignificant ones

Only insignificant if you have in game resources to throw at the forge, or buy at elevated prices on the TP.. new players and players with less disposable income may see this as a barrier that stretches just too far... Of all the issues in game this is one of those that can be just as progress blocking, immersion breaking and tiresome to overcome as any other imo.. so I don't blame the poster for taking that stance one iota.

I havent bought a single one on the trading post. I had some in bank because I never throw cheap superior runes and sigils away. The rest I got from creating a few new characters with lvl up books and mystic forging rare sigils instead of vendoring them.

Also what is wrong with needing to put in some effort into the ultimate reward of this living story episode? It is not even a week old and people already despair if they havent unlocked it. It will probably take 3 months until we see something new.

Lol.. your missing the point.. what you have done, is what I have done and will do... but that's the reason for the sink to take that away and then your left with 2 options.. farm to buy or whip out the credit card.Grindfestwars kills the fun created by all the decent content, storytline and map for many players, others don't want to just buy their way through the game, but neither do they want to have to make GW2 a second job.No one said it needs to be easy to do or even quick, but it does need some level of balance not just between grind and enjoyment what newer players and vets are able to do.. this acts like a very large barrier for new players, when it should be content that feels much more achievable within a timely fashion.Lets not forget, there are now so many grind collections thrown at us in game now .. where is the time to fit them in . At the rate its going we will be grinding for years just to keep our heads above the water. Sure we don't need them all or like them all.If this is the most creative ideas that can be put forward to I worry for the mid to long term of the game in general, there is only so much fun ANET can suck out of the game before players walk away... and right now were saturated in goldsinks and grindwars.It's no wonder GW2 gets swamped with AFK farms everywhere these days.

[Malediktus.9250]

150g-200g is still cheap and very reasonable for this kind of quality armor set. On par with converting gold to gems for a gemshop outfit. People blowing this "problem" out of proportions whenever they cannot unlock something the minute they see it.Even t3 cultural armor which is ancient costs quite a bit over 100g.

[Clyan.1593]

@"Malediktus.9250" said:150g-200g is still cheap and very reasonable for this kind of quality armor set. On par with converting gold to gems for a gemshop outfit. People blowing this "problem" out of proportions whenever they cannot unlock something the minute they see it.Even t3 cultural armor which is ancient costs quite a bit over 100g.

Sure, you can argue like that. But yesterday evening the TP had only 1600 sigils of nullification for sale. Now divide that by 25...Where do all the sigils come from for all the other players? They have to buy the weapons I guess, but some of them are crazy expensive.I personally think they shouldnt have used a sigil that has no recipe. That's quite the mistake.

[Cyninja.2954]

@Bloodstealer.5978 said:

@Malediktus.9250 said:

@Bloodstealer.5978 said:

@Malediktus.9250 said:

@Zorn.9041 said:I am voting with my wallet, not buying any more gems until they fix the sigil issue.

Out of all the issues the game has, this is probably one of the most insignificant ones

Only insignificant if you have in game resources to throw at the forge, or buy at elevated prices on the TP.. new players and players with less disposable income may see this as a barrier that stretches just too far... Of all the issues in game this is one of those that can be just as progress blocking, immersion breaking and tiresome to overcome as any other imo.. so I don't blame the poster for taking that stance one iota.

I havent bought a single one on the trading post. I had some in bank because I never throw cheap superior runes and sigils away. The rest I got from creating a few new characters with lvl up books and mystic forging rare sigils instead of vendoring them.

Also what is wrong with needing to put in some effort into the ultimate reward of this living story episode? It is not even a week old and people already despair if they havent unlocked it. It will probably take 3 months until we see something new.

Lol.. your missing the point.. what you have done, is what I have done and will do... but that's the reason for the sink to take that away and then your left with 2 options.. farm to buy or whip out the credit card.Grindfestwars kills the fun created by all the decent content, storytline and map for many players, others don't want to just buy their way through the game, but neither do they want to have to make GW2 a second job.No one said it needs to be easy to do or even quick, but it does need some level of balance not just between grind and enjoyment what newer players and vets are able to do.. this acts like a very large barrier for new players, when it should be content that feels much more achievable within a timely fashion.Lets not forget, there are now so many grind collections thrown at us in game now .. where is the time to fit them in . At the rate its going we will be grinding for years just to keep our heads above the water. Sure we don't need them all or like them all.If this is the most creative ideas that can be put forward to I worry for the mid to long term of the game in general, there is only so much fun ANET can suck out of the game before players walk away... and right now were saturated in goldsinks and grindwars.It's no wonder GW2 gets swamped with AFK farms everywhere these days.

The armor is not required, thus the entire argument about grindfestwars is misplaced. It's an optional armor set which offers people something to do. Even at current highest cost of 16g per Sigil this set comes out as approximately 450 gold (lower now since Sigils have dropped and will continue dropping mid- to longterm) it is comparable to alternatives both gem wise in the shop as well as other cosmetic items and collections.

Define easy or quick? There is multiple gold farms in this game which allow 20-30 gold per hour. That's 10 hours for a new player if he starts at 0 gold to get the set. There has been far worse farms or grinds in both GW2 and just about any other MMO (some of which are NOT optional).

Collections are meant as mid- to long term goals. The fact that people finish these within 1-2 days after release just shows that people are willing to no life the game. Taking the 3 month cadence between releases, it is absolutely possible to finish most collections within this time frame. That is what they are balanced around.

If Arenanet is sucking the fun out of the game for you, then you are playing and focusing on the wrong content. Having an OCD wanting to finish every collection even though you do not enjoy the process is on you, not Arenanet.

It's always the same thing: players want unique and prestigious rewards (and/or long term goals) but then are unwilling to both pace themselves and/or invest the time and resources required.

If you try to finish every bit of new content/collection within 24 hours of release and complain only to then again complain 1 week after the patch that you are left with nothing to do, then you are doing it wrong and will leave the game. There is nothing Arenanet will be able to do against this insanity.

EDIT: just to be clear, I am not against people finishing stuff asap. I do so too occasionally. Please realize though that in those cases you are finishing content and objectives way faster than intended. That is something one should keep in mind. The one thing I've noticed across multiple players is: those who can exert patience are having a much easier time enjoying GW2 than those who require their constant instant gratification.

[Ayrilana.1396]

@Clyan.1593 said:

@"Malediktus.9250" said:150g-200g is still cheap and very reasonable for this kind of quality armor set. On par with converting gold to gems for a gemshop outfit. People blowing this "problem" out of proportions whenever they cannot unlock something the minute they see it.Even t3 cultural armor which is ancient costs quite a bit over 100g.

Sure, you can argue like that. But yesterday evening the TP had only 1600 sigils of nullification for sale. Now divide that by 25...Where do all the sigils come from for all the other players? They have to buy the weapons I guess, but some of them are crazy expensive.I personally think they shouldnt have used a sigil that has no recipe. That's quite the mistake.

Since when is any collection item required to have enough supply on the TP for the entire player population at release of said collection?

The sigils will come into supply as players level characters and sell the sigils. Veteran players are getting their level 60 scrolls so they too will start using them as well. I personally only use them for key runs and I’m sure that I’m not alone.

[Ralith Arkane.8371]

This was an item that was worth next-to-nothing and thus most of the "generated supply" over the years was sold to merchants because it was literally not worth it to put it on the trading post. As someone pointed out earlier, there were only 1600 units at one point, and less than 60 at another since the patch has come out. 1600 is not enough to supply even a small fraction of the player base participating in the new content with the required mats. The other point is that this is a skin set not an ascended armor set, so it should not be 40 x 9g ea to 360g. 360g could make an ascended armor set, easily. The sigil requirement would not be such a big deal if the final result was a set of ascended armor rather than just a free skin application.

[Pifil.5193]

@Zorn.9041 said:

@"Pifil.5193" said:"I don't believe in any way that this was intended as a gold sink. If it

was

intended as a gold sink then it's a poor one, as it doesn't actually

remove

the gold (apart from the listing fee), it

transfers

it to another player. A gold sink would look more like the Griffon collection's gold sinks: spend a flat amount of gold to buy something used only for the collection."

Making it like this would have been a much better option. Make us earn and buy the components from NPC's. This gets the gold sink and still forces us to work to get it done.

I agree, I'd much prefer she sold us a widget for 5 gold, or required something from Miyani like Mystic Crystals for her Nullification device.

[Turkeyspit.3965]

The various points made on this thread aside, I don't understand why any Sigil or Rune can exist without there being either a recipe to craft them, or a vendor from which to purchase them. I'm willing to accept that some sigils/runes are only available from vendors for map currency or game mode currency, but anything else should at least be craftable using mats that can be acquired as normal.

Imagine if you were planning to craft Feathers of Dwayna (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Feathers_of_Dwayna) when this patch hit? (Note that weapon is part of a collection achievement). Boy, would you be peeved...

[Pifil.5193]

@"Ralith Arkane.8371" said:This was an item that was worth next-to-nothing and thus most of the "generated supply" over the years was sold to merchants because it was literally not worth it to put it on the trading post. As someone pointed out earlier, there were only 1600 units at one point, and less than 60 at another since the patch has come out. 1600 is not enough to supply even a small fraction of the player base participating in the new content with the required mats. The other point is that this is a skin set not an ascended armor set, so it should not be 40 x 9g ea to 360g. 360g could make an ascended armor set, easily. The sigil requirement would not be such a big deal if the final result was a set of ascended armor rather than just a free skin application.

Also that's not including the ectos, Amalgamated Gemstones and other costs.

Not to mention the fact that the cost of this has not been designed by ArenaNet. The current cost is not the result of a deliberate decision by ArenaNet it's purely a matter of supply and demand, in sure some early buyers have made a killing here.