Superior Sigil of Nullification [Merged]

[Ayrilana.1396]

@Bloodstealer.5978 said:Because Legendries were based on a rare drop pre-cursor for everyone, which then saw the player/players enter into a long term commitment with a material supply that did not/does not rely on rerolling to lvl 64 silly amounts to get a guaranteed 1 sigil drop or play RNG chance in the forge while what little supply there is/was could be manipulated en mass by a few. T2 legendries have a similar issue in the Amalgamated gemstones, but at least these do have supply streams players can utilise while actually playing the game.Lets not forget these are legendary items, they are the top tier if you like, ANET's alternative to what other MMO's do with gear treadmilling, with the distinct advantage that the goal posts don't change as soon as you finally get there.These new sets are not a Legendary weapon, backpack or Armor set, not even ascended, they are exotic sets with no infusion slots, no stat swap ability.. just skins and by the time many players actually get enough resource or have farmed enough sigils and gems that set will be lost in amongst more of the same collections.. just like with back packs and such already.. sound more akin to those A N OTHER MMO gear treadmills to me.

You can defend it all you like, those milking the TP for all its worth will likely be doing the same, but this is a sure fire way to killing players interest in the game because the best, most fairest way to of done this would be to of set a one for all price point and then let the player make the decision on how best to complete the collection. It would still of allowed ANET to dangle the gems for cash carrot, but everyone gets the same choice and more importantly the same end price.

Legendaries were just an example of prices being at one price point at one point of time and different at another point of time. Fairness in this case was that players who were quick enough were able to get the sigils for cheaper than those that were not quick enough. Acquisition of the sigil doesn’t matter as the price is the real issue.

[Cyninja.2954]

@InkTide.1908 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

All true, but you are omitting some things from your analysis:

1.) the Juggernaut can be crafted and traded (and this is being done constantly) and the Silver Doubloons used are thus in constant equal high demand simply because legendarys are a rare commodity (trading at 1-3 per day often) and used to convert account bound items into gold (Gifts of Exploration, Obsidian Shards, Mystic Clovers, etc.). Demand for SSoN is finite and can not be converted into gold.

The only way to actually use the Juggernaut skin is to account bind it. If material demand for legendaries was tied solely to the ability to trade account bound materials, then they would never see actual use as skins. Each unlocked Juggernaut skin removes 250 silver doubloons - as well as all its other ingredients - from the ingame economy entirely.

@Cyninja.2954 said:

2.) 250 versus 25 is an increase by a factor of 10. Yet Silver Doubloons are valued at close to 1 gold. There is enough room for SSoN to drop price wise. You said yourself, Silver Doubloons have been stable price wise.

Silver Doubloons have had 6 years and an infinite, reliable source to nevertheless stabilize at an absolutely stupid price when compared to other upgrade components of the same type or the same tier. You can reliably farm 250 Silver Doubloons, but not SSoNs. (EDIT: Missed that last word, whoops.)

@Cyninja.2954 said:3.) We do not know how much Silver Doubloons and SSoN enter the games economy and how many of those make it to the TP. Only Arenanet has those numbers. We also do not know how long demand for SSoN will remain high.

We don't know absolute numbers, but we do know what the sinks are and what the sources are. Assuming the demand will fall when the only sources of supply are unreliable and the sources of demand are every single account that has not yet completed the collection and participated in Episode 4 is at best shaky. There are no concrete reasons to believe that demand will fall, without a complete moratorium on new players gaining access to Episode 4 and by extension the collection, or without every player who wants to unlock the skin obtaining it.

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@InkTide.1908 said:That spike lasted approximately 48 hours before the offloading of hoarded sigils ran out and buy orders began to far exceed sell orders. currently, total supply on the TP is enough to unlock approximately 100 sets of Requiem armor. That is not

nearly

enough to satisfy an appreciable portion of the playerbase. Without any method to farm or create the sigils (aside from using roughly 60 tomes of knowledge, or an equivalent amount of time leveling), there is no reason other than stubborn adherence to the tenuous (at best) claim that the market will somehow fix itself to believe that the value of these sigils will do anything but ascend into unattainable levels, if they haven't already passed that point.

Says who? With each passing day the demand for Sigils decreases (unlike Silver Doubloons). We do not yet know if supply is down to only new Sigils which are directly put on the trading post or if there is still remaining supply stored away. If the amount of Sigils entering the market remains constant, the price will gradually fall.

If the amount of Sigils entering the market drops (due to stored supplies being used up) the price will increase. Yet the entire time demand will drop.

Your conclusion here is still relying entirely on the assumption that demand will decrease, without explaining

how

demand is going to decrease. 100 skin unlocks? 1000? Still not an appreciable percentage of the playerbase. Prior to there being any demand for these sigils there were approximately 25k of them on the TP. There was no reason to hoard them and people who did were unusual, meaning that those 25k sigils likely represented the bulk of supply. That's 1000 accounts that can unlock the full collection. That's a whopping 2 full guilds of accounts - it's nothing, and certainly not enough to shrink demand. When that amount runs out, after 1000 players have unlocked the set, the entire supply is limited to people who get the sigils from exotic weapon drops or get lucky and forge it out of 4 major sigils (a process that has done nothing to control the price of sigils that you only need one of for meta builds). The entire playerbase minus ~1000 players limited to RNG. That is not a problem that is going to be solved by hoping that those 1000 players are going to somehow drastically reduce demand by unlocking the collection.

Not quite how I would read that number. The only Sigils which made it on the TP pre patch were from people who did not vendor them. How many people do you assume vendor 2s Sigils instead of putting them on the TP (where they will incur a 15%tax hit?). It is very reasonable to assume that the 25k pre patch supply was only a fraction of Sigils which entered the ge economy. But as said, Arenanet have the final numbers on that.

I'm not sure I understand your confusion. How will demand decrease? 1 person at a time buying 25 or part of those 25 Sigils and people deciding the collections is to expensive at this point in time at given price. If price drops, demand increases at a new lower price only to once again decrease. That's how.

@InkTide.1908 said: > @Cyninja.2954 said:

If the Sigil price does spike into unheard territories (say 30 gold plus per Sigil), then people can freak out and demand adjustments from Arenanet. Not before.

Why do you feel you are qualified to make that decision for the entire playerbase?

Because earlier panic is nonsense and might be unnecessary and accomplishes nothing (since the market might adjust right to where Arenanet wants it price wise) . If you believe a developer is going to step in to adjust a market which has not reached some type of balance you are in denial.

But feel free to disagree, you and I have the same ability to influence Arenanet actions on this issue: near none.

[Moi.5013]

What happened to the arena net comment that was on here and what did it say? It seems to have been removed.

[Doo Lally.8594]

@Moi.5013 said:What happened to the arena net comment that was on here and what did it say? It seems to have been removed.

They merged one or two other threads to make this one. I think the very action of merging caused the Arenanet 'tag' to appear on this threads' summary posting, as opposed to them leaving a deliberate (or useful) comment.

[Tanner Blackfeather.6509]

@"Moi.5013" said:What happened to the arena net comment that was on here and what did it say? It seems to have been removed.

The post was nothing more than a small note from Gaile Gray, something like "tagging for merge" - likely just for her to keep track of the thread.

[Shostie.6435]

@"Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582" said:So, in the last two days, the Sigil which is needed for the new armour went from 2.5s to 9g, within a couple of hours 15,000 were bought from the TP and re-listed. Currently, they are only available from drops and any exotic with one is now starting at 13g and going up from there.

Sigil of Nullification on GW2Spidy

Can we get a recipe made for these sigils, please? That way the price will be tied to a T6 item and ecto, so they remain within reach of casual players and not a commodity to be hoarded by the TP barons and sold at the highest price the market can bear.I wouldn't mind a recipe, not because I want to make the armor immediately (I may never bother), but because a recipe would screw over the TP barons.

[Ashen.2907]

@Shostie.6435 said:

@"Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582" said:So, in the last two days, the Sigil which is needed for the new armour went from 2.5s to 9g, within a couple of hours 15,000 were bought from the TP and re-listed. Currently, they are only available from drops and any exotic with one is now starting at 13g and going up from there.

Sigil of Nullification on GW2Spidy

Can we get a recipe made for these sigils, please? That way the price will be tied to a T6 item and ecto, so they remain within reach of casual players and not a commodity to be hoarded by the TP barons and sold at the highest price the market can bear.I wouldn't mind a recipe, not because I want to make the armor immediately (I may never bother), but because a recipe would screw over the TP barons.

I doubt that very much.

[Kalendraf.9521]

Here are some numbers to consider from gw2efficiency.com related to the new armor collections:

Achievement - Unlocked by PlayerbaseThe Convergence of Sorrow I: Elegy 13,616 of 181,604 (7.498%)The Convergence of Sorrow II: Requiem 1,242 of 181,604 (0.684%)

Granted, not every GW2 player has their account linked to that site, but these numbers are very telling. From the first achievement numbers, it implies that perhaps less than 10% of active GW2 players have even completed the first collection. Considering the new content has only been out for a week, this is not that surprising. Based on this, it is possible that we haven't even begun to see the demand from the remaining 90% of the players, and it's also possible that those players don't yet realize the need for the sigils.

The 2nd line numbers are showing that less than 10% of the players that have completed the first collection have managed to complete the 2nd. The sigils are likely one of the key gates for why that number isn't higher.

Are these the types of numbers ANet intended? It seems odd that they would create an entirely new armor plus all the collections related to them that less than 1% of the players would obtain. Over time, the numbers will likely increase, but probably not at a very fast rate, especially if the sigil prices continue to climb unabated.

[Ayrilana.1396]

Check the completion rates of the other collection achievements.

Edit: Crystal Attunement achievement only has a completion rate of 5.7% and it’s free.

It’d be better to check a collection that’s nexted within another which pretty much the only other one that fits would be Full House.

[Kalendraf.9521]

Also, assuming the pre-patch supply was ~25K sigils, that aligns very closely with the number of players (1242) that have actually completed the 2nd collection which equates to a total of 31K sigils. The remaining 6K sigils plus any currently on the TP are a mixture of sigils players already had on hand and used toward the collection, sigils players had on hand which were listed post-patch as the prices began to rise, plus whatever few have been introduced via RNG or characters reaching level 64.

[Holykitten.3064]

@Kalendraf.9521 said:

Achievement - Unlocked by PlayerbaseThe Convergence of Sorrow I: Elegy 13,616 of 181,604 (7.498%)The Convergence of Sorrow II: Requiem 1,242 of 181,604 (0.684%)

You are missing the intermediary stages of Requiem;

Requiem: Experiment 1- 6,354 of 181,656 (3.498%)Requiem: Experiment 2 -5,313 of 181,656 (2.925%)Requiem: Experiment 3 - 2,518 of 181,656 (1.386%)Requiem: Experiment 4 - 1,933 of 181,656 (1.064%)Requiem: Experiment 5 - 1,550 of 181,656 (0.853%)Requiem: Experiment 6 - 1,289 of 181,656 (0.710%)

Small numbers, but we're a week in. This shows a progression through the Achievement itself.

Are these the types of numbers ANet intended? It seems odd that they would create an entirely new armor plus all the collections related to them that less than 1% of the players would obtain. Over time, the numbers will likely increase, but probably not at a very fast rate, especially if the sigil prices continue to climb unabated.

Here are some numbers of similar collections, which have been around for years;Bioluminescence - 26,623 of 181,656 (14.656%) (This has been available since Nov 4th 2014, 4 years ago, and only 14.6% of gw2 efficiency users have this done in those 4yrs)The Sun Is Silent for This One - 5,298 of 181,656 (2.917%) (Added with Path of Fire Sept 22nd 2017, 2.9% after a year)Gold Fractal Master - 3,075 of 181,656 (1.693%) (Added around Sept 2016, 2yrs later only 1.6%)Ambrite Weapon Collection - 6,005 of 181,656 (3.306%) (Added Sept 2014, 4yrs later, only 3.3% of users have completed this)

There's a few more collections, but I guess you can catch my drift here (Your numbers mean squat to your point)

[Justine.6351]

LMAO, I got so many stacks of tomes. Time to start cashing them in!

[Gop.8713]

It entertains me to discover that this thread has basically boiled down to two groups, one of which thinks there is a problem that needs to be fixed while the other thinks the problem will fix itself. No one seems to think there's not a problem and no one has provided any argument as to why it shouldn't be fixed, other than for science I guess . . ?

[Ayrilana.1396]

@Justine.6351 said:LMAO, I got so many stacks of tomes. Time to start cashing them in!

Don’t. You’re better off converting them to gold rather than spending 62 of them for 10G.

@Gop.8713 said:It entertains me to discover that this thread has basically boiled down to two groups, one of which thinks there is a problem that needs to be fixed while the other thinks the problem will fix itself. No one seems to think there's not a problem and no one has provided any argument as to why it shouldn't be fixed, other than for science I guess . . ?

See bolded.

[Justine.6351]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Justine.6351 said:LMAO, I got so many stacks of tomes. Time to start cashing them in!

Don’t. You’re better off converting them to gold rather than spending 62 of them for 10G.

@Gop.8713 said:It entertains me to discover that this thread has basically boiled down to two groups, one of which thinks there is a problem that needs to be fixed while the

other thinks the problem will fix itself

. No one seems to think there's not a problem and

no one has provided any argument as to why it shouldn't be fixed,

other than for science I guess . . ?

See bolded.

Yeah ain't nobody got time to work the Trading Post for marginal gains.

[Ayrilana.1396]

@Justine.6351 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Justine.6351 said:LMAO, I got so many stacks of tomes. Time to start cashing them in!

Don’t. You’re better off converting them to gold rather than spending 62 of them for 10G.

@Gop.8713 said:It entertains me to discover that this thread has basically boiled down to two groups, one of which thinks there is a problem that needs to be fixed while the

other thinks the problem will fix itself

. No one seems to think there's not a problem and

no one has provided any argument as to why it shouldn't be fixed,

other than for science I guess . . ?

See bolded.

Yeah ain't nobody got time to work the Trading Post for marginal gains.

10G to sell a sigil of nullification or 36G to convert rawhide to thin leather. I don’t see the sigil getting much higher than now.

[Gop.8713]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Justine.6351 said:LMAO, I got so many stacks of tomes. Time to start cashing them in!

Don’t. You’re better off converting them to gold rather than spending 62 of them for 10G.

@Gop.8713 said:It entertains me to discover that this thread has basically boiled down to two groups, one of which thinks there is a problem that needs to be fixed while the

other thinks the problem will fix itself

. No one seems to think there's not a problem and

no one has provided any argument as to why it shouldn't be fixed,

other than for science I guess . . ?

See bolded.

You're saying time has no value then . . ?

[Cyninja.2954]

@Gop.8713 said:It entertains me to discover that this thread has basically boiled down to two groups, one of which thinks there is a problem that needs to be fixed while the other thinks the problem will fix itself. No one seems to think there's not a problem and no one has provided any argument as to why it shouldn't be fixed, other than for science I guess . . ?

Simple answer:Some people do not consider it a problem. I certainly don't, if the Sigils remain at 10g per Sigil and create a stable price at that cost I would make the armor personally. Others decided that buying the Sigil at 16 gold was worth it and finished the collection.

There have been dozen arguments as to why it does not have to be fixed ever OR right now.

First off: there might nothing be in need of fixing. If the market evens out at the desired price range, changing things now would divert the intended outcome for Arenanet.

Second: while not popular, maybe Arenanet WANTS the Sigil to be valued at 5-10 gold or more. Why should they make any changes in that case? The reasons to keep it at that price range are multiple: new players get access to easy gold at level 64 and more trade volume over the TP creates more gold drain on the economy are 2 major ones benefiting the game.

@Gop.8713 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Justine.6351 said:LMAO, I got so many stacks of tomes. Time to start cashing them in!

Don’t. You’re better off converting them to gold rather than spending 62 of them for 10G.

@Gop.8713 said:It entertains me to discover that this thread has basically boiled down to two groups, one of which thinks there is a problem that needs to be fixed while the

other thinks the problem will fix itself

. No one seems to think there's not a problem and

no one has provided any argument as to why it shouldn't be fixed,

other than for science I guess . . ?

See bolded.

You're saying time has no value then . . ?

He never said that. Time has value and in this case letting time pass and letting the market take its course can be viewed as a function of time. Letting enough time pass for enough supply to enter the market, enough demand to leave the market and enough players to eventually decide not to complete the collection for example are all factors which will affect pricing thus affecting this issue.

[Ayrilana.1396]

@Gop.8713 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Justine.6351 said:LMAO, I got so many stacks of tomes. Time to start cashing them in!

Don’t. You’re better off converting them to gold rather than spending 62 of them for 10G.

@Gop.8713 said:It entertains me to discover that this thread has basically boiled down to two groups, one of which thinks there is a problem that needs to be fixed while the

other thinks the problem will fix itself

. No one seems to think there's not a problem and

no one has provided any argument as to why it shouldn't be fixed,

other than for science I guess . . ?

See bolded.

You're saying time has no value then . . ?

And that has what to do with the sigils? Or were you referring to what I told the other poster?

[Obtena.7952]

@Gop.8713 said:It entertains me to discover that this thread has basically boiled down to two groups, one of which thinks there is a problem that needs to be fixed while the other thinks the problem will fix itself. No one seems to think there's not a problem and no one has provided any argument as to why it shouldn't be fixed, other than for science I guess . . ?

If you follow the thread, you would realize what you said here is not correct. There are people that don't think it's a problem and they have provided their arguments why it shouldn't be fixed. If you FEEL the arguments might not be engaging, it's because this isn't a new discussion. It's the result of people not wanting to accept the fact that this game is driven by a very player-controlled market and people don't like to feel like they are at the mercy of 'rich whales' that 'own everything' and make money off of 'poor people'. The best part is that it doesn't even matter who or how someone thinks the market is being controlled ... it presents you with a practical choice ... you pay or you go without.

If you play this game, you MUST embrace the idea that the market is driven by players who want gold, PERIOD. If that's a game changer for you, you should select and play MMO's that don't have economies based off of player activities. This isn't one of them.

[Gop.8713]

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Gop.8713 said:It entertains me to discover that this thread has basically boiled down to two groups, one of which thinks there is a problem that needs to be fixed while the other thinks the problem will fix itself. No one seems to think there's not a problem and no one has provided any argument as to why it shouldn't be fixed, other than for science I guess . . ?

Simple answer:Some people do not consider it a problem. I certainly don't, if the Sigils remain at 10g per Sigil and create a stable price at that cost I would make the armor personally. Others decided that buying the Sigil at 16 gold was worth it and finished the collection.

There have been dozen arguments as to why it does not have to be fixed ever OR right now.

First off: there might nothing be in need of fixing. If the market evens out at the desired price range, changing things now would divert the intended outcome for Arenanet.

Second: while not popular, maybe Arenanet WANTS the Sigil to be valued at 5-10 gold or more. Why should they make any changes in that case? The reasons to keep it at that price range are multiple: new players get access to easy gold at level 64 and more trade volume over the TP creates more gold drain on the economy are 2 major ones benefiting the game.

@Gop.8713 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Justine.6351 said:LMAO, I got so many stacks of tomes. Time to start cashing them in!

Don’t. You’re better off converting them to gold rather than spending 62 of them for 10G.

@Gop.8713 said:It entertains me to discover that this thread has basically boiled down to two groups, one of which thinks there is a problem that needs to be fixed while the

other thinks the problem will fix itself

. No one seems to think there's not a problem and

no one has provided any argument as to why it shouldn't be fixed,

other than for science I guess . . ?

See bolded.

You're saying time has no value then . . ?

He never said that. Time has value and in this case letting time pass and letting the market take its course can be viewed as a function of time. Letting enough time pass for enough supply to enter the market, enough demand to leave the market and enough players to eventually decide not to complete the collection for example are all factors which will affect pricing thus affecting this issue.

Sry, short on time but I think your basic errors flow first from a desire to apply real world economics to a video game economy and second from a desire to reach a predetermined conclusion. The same economic rules do not apply to a video game economy as apply to a real world economy, primarily bc scarcity in a video game does not exist in the same way as scarcity does in the real world, since commodities in a video game economy can literally be thought into existence. Your second error can be seen in your claiming there is no problem, then explaining how the problem will fix itself, but if it doesn't that's okay because reasons. There either is or isn't a problem. The existence or nonexistence of a current problem is not dependent upon future outcomes . . .

[eldrjth.7384]

@"Haleydawn.3764" said:are some numbers of similar collections, which have been around for years;Bioluminescence - 26,623 of 181,656 (14.656%) (This has been available since Nov 4th 2014, 4 years ago, and only 14.6% of gw2 efficiency users have this done in those 4yrs)The Sun Is Silent for This One - 5,298 of 181,656 (2.917%) (Added with Path of Fire Sept 22nd 2017, 2.9% after a year)Gold Fractal Master - 3,075 of 181,656 (1.693%) (Added around Sept 2016, 2yrs later only 1.6%)Ambrite Weapon Collection - 6,005 of 181,656 (3.306%) (Added Sept 2014, 4yrs later, only 3.3% of users have completed this)

Well Ive done the requiem armour but have yet to do any of the other collections you mentioned for a few reasons, starting with:- the reward has to interest me to begin with, since I dont do achievements for the sake of it and prob like the majority look at what I get from completing it, as a reward vs cost/time involved. They were also not "new" at the time I started playing GW again. Bioluminescence? the collection makes the carapace armour look fuglier to me. Gold fractal master? It cost more to do that than to craft any ascended weapon I want many times over - even though I have the gold to complete it, forget it.

So if the question is: do the sigils present a significant roadblock for completing the requiem collection for anyone wanting to do it? Id say so, especially for newish players. It took me a year to do the griffon collection because the gold cost was vastly out of line with what the other mounts cost. I think 50 gold wouldve been about right and also how much gold I had at the time of PoF release. I only got it because I running out of things to spend gold on.

^id say the sigils arent going to get higher in price than what it is at now because it has reach a psychological barrier of 10g per. There is only so much players are willing to spend on a virtually worthless item otherwise.

[Obtena.7952]

@Gop.8713 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Gop.8713 said:It entertains me to discover that this thread has basically boiled down to two groups, one of which thinks there is a problem that needs to be fixed while the other thinks the problem will fix itself. No one seems to think there's not a problem and no one has provided any argument as to why it shouldn't be fixed, other than for science I guess . . ?

Simple answer:Some people do not consider it a problem. I certainly don't, if the Sigils remain at 10g per Sigil and create a stable price at that cost I would make the armor personally. Others decided that buying the Sigil at 16 gold was worth it and finished the collection.

There have been dozen arguments as to why it does not have to be fixed ever OR right now.

First off: there might nothing be in need of fixing. If the market evens out at the desired price range, changing things now would divert the intended outcome for Arenanet.

Second: while not popular, maybe Arenanet WANTS the Sigil to be valued at 5-10 gold or more. Why should they make any changes in that case? The reasons to keep it at that price range are multiple: new players get access to easy gold at level 64 and more trade volume over the TP creates more gold drain on the economy are 2 major ones benefiting the game.

@Gop.8713 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Justine.6351 said:LMAO, I got so many stacks of tomes. Time to start cashing them in!

Don’t. You’re better off converting them to gold rather than spending 62 of them for 10G.

@Gop.8713 said:It entertains me to discover that this thread has basically boiled down to two groups, one of which thinks there is a problem that needs to be fixed while the

other thinks the problem will fix itself

. No one seems to think there's not a problem and

no one has provided any argument as to why it shouldn't be fixed,

other than for science I guess . . ?

See bolded.

You're saying time has no value then . . ?

He never said that. Time has value and in this case letting time pass and letting the market take its course can be viewed as a function of time. Letting enough time pass for enough supply to enter the market, enough demand to leave the market and enough players to eventually decide not to complete the collection for example are all factors which will affect pricing thus affecting this issue.

Sry, short on time but I think your basic errors flow first from a desire to apply real world economics to a video game economy and second from a desire to reach a predetermined conclusion. The same economic rules do not apply to a video game economy as apply to a real world economy, primarily bc scarcity in a video game does not exist in the same way as scarcity does in the real world, since commodities in a video game economy can literally be thought into existence. Your second error can be seen in your claiming there is no problem, then explaining how the problem will fix itself, but if it doesn't that's okay because reasons. There either is or isn't a problem. The existence or nonexistence of a current problem is not dependent upon future outcomes . . .

I'm not sure that makes sense. If there is ANY place where economic theory is applicable, it's the one where you have a closed, controlled system ... JUST like an MMO is. Besides that doesn't really matter anyways. Even if we do or don't think economic theory is widely applicable, I'm sure that Anet takes a MUCH more practical approach to implementing the market and making decisions like this one. The fact is this ... the price of any particular item has little to do with whether or not the economy is 'healthy' or if Anet should intervene. If there is sufficient supply to meet the demand, then that's all that is really necessary.

Put it this way ... do you think Anet's decision to use THIS sigil was based on it's price? That doesn't make sense. It's more likely to do with factors like the volumes available, how much entered and how many got used. That's completely not price-related.

[Kalendraf.9521]

@Haleydawn.3764 said:Here are some numbers of similar collections, which have been around for years;Most of these are apples to oranges comparisons with the Elegy/Requiem armor collections, but since you mentioned them...Bioluminescence - 26,623 of 181,656 (14.656%) (This has been available since Nov 4th 2014, 4 years ago, and only 14.6% of gw2 efficiency users have this done in those 4yrs)This would likely have a higher completion rate if not for Wicked Rodeo. I know many players that have needed just that one achievement to fill this collection, but have never managed to do it. So this one is largely a skill-gated achievement, and there isn't any cost relationship to items in the TP. On the other hand, the dye issues with this armor are another possible factor for why some players have never bothered to complete it.

The Sun Is Silent for This One - 5,298 of 181,656 (2.917%) (Added with Path of Fire Sept 22nd 2017, 2.9% after a year)This one is largely gated by Elegy Mosaics. Earning those basically boils down to farming lots and lots of legendary bounties in PoF which many players don't find appealing.

Gold Fractal Master - 3,075 of 181,656 (1.693%) (Added around Sept 2016, 2yrs later only 1.6%)First, it's requires doing fractals, which doesn't appeal to everyone. Second, it's a pretty significant achievement to collect all the skins to reach this.

Ambrite Weapon Collection - 6,005 of 181,656 (3.306%) (Added Sept 2014, 4yrs later, only 3.3% of users have completed this)This is one I achieved a long time ago, and I suspect the main reason more players haven't done it boils down to two main issues. First, the weapons themselves aren't necessarily appealing to many players. Second, getting the fossils was originally heavily dependent on RNG, lack of lockpicks, and limited time to access the chests in Drytop. At least it was until they added PvP/WvW tracks that guaranteed getting a fossil. However, I continue to see many players that have no clue about PvP/WvW tracks or refuse to even do simply dailies to advance them. Thus, the low numbers here probably is a result of unappealing skins plus PvE players being stubborn and not using PvP/WvW tracks.

There's a few more collections, but I guess you can catch my drift here (Your numbers mean squat to your point)Your comparisons aren't similar since the new armors collections aren't skill-gated (achievements for bio), bounty-farm gated (mosaics for SISFTO), require playing in a specific mode (gold weapons from Fractals), or tied to items you can get from WvW/PvP tracks (fossils for ambrite collection) On the other hand, your point that not all players will attempt to max out collections is absolutely valid. There are other collections that are more comparable to the new collections, and would probably be better measures of what to expect.

[Bloodstealer.5978]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Bloodstealer.5978 said:Because Legendries were based on a rare drop pre-cursor for everyone, which then saw the player/players enter into a long term commitment with a material supply that did not/does not rely on rerolling to lvl 64 silly amounts to get a guaranteed 1 sigil drop or play RNG chance in the forge while what little supply there is/was could be manipulated en mass by a few. T2 legendries have a similar issue in the Amalgamated gemstones, but at least these do have supply streams players can utilise while actually playing the game.Lets not forget these are legendary items, they are the top tier if you like, ANET's alternative to what other MMO's do with gear treadmilling, with the distinct advantage that the goal posts don't change as soon as you finally get there.These new sets are not a Legendary weapon, backpack or Armor set, not even ascended, they are exotic sets with no infusion slots, no stat swap ability.. just skins and by the time many players actually get enough resource or have farmed enough sigils and gems that set will be lost in amongst more of the same collections.. just like with back packs and such already.. sound more akin to those A N OTHER MMO gear treadmills to me.

You can defend it all you like, those milking the TP for all its worth will likely be doing the same, but this is a sure fire way to killing players interest in the game because the best, most fairest way to of done this would be to of set a one for all price point and then let the player make the decision on how best to complete the collection. It would still of allowed ANET to dangle the gems for cash carrot, but everyone gets the same choice and more importantly the same end price.

Legendaries were just an example of prices being at one price point at one point of time and different at another point of time. Fairness in this case was that players who were quick enough were able to get the sigils for cheaper than those that were not quick enough. Acquisition of the sigil doesn’t matter as the price is the real issue.

No fairness this time is about keeping the price point the same for all no matter what how long anyone had been playing or what stash they might of accrued over time .. there would be no opportunity to manipulate a market driven by a demand far exceeding the supply for a long time to come.When an item is allowed to jump from 2silver to 10-20g overnight with a supply hovering around 2k when the demand is likely a 100 x that.. there is an major flaw in the design of the collection. That supply wont change all that much over time, especially as players exhaust their tomes to keep re levelling for the free sigils. Such a market shift will not neutralise for a long time and by the time they do become more affordable for all the collection would of lost its lustre as other collectable prioritise come are pushed through.This is a bad design, its going backwards to what used to exist like stated earlier, but the playing field is nowhere near level anymore like in the early days of the game. When a supply has only a very small trickle feed and luck attached to it, the demand will take an age to rebalance if we take even a conservative view of 200k active players currently, not including any new players to come into game or those that return going forward.These kind of barriers are there for tugging on the desire strings of players just like the bad old MMO days of gear treadmills and that is not healthy, that afterall was one of ANET's main SP's, a safe haven away from the mind numbing never ending gear grind.ANET as a business need to make money, that's no problem, but this method is a forced push to gemsales borne out of TP manipulation of a worthless item with no viable supply stream. ANET know players wont wait for a year or more to get these sets and TP manipulation serves that purpose well. If they made the set a fixed price for all even if they time gated elements to stretch it out to keep players in game for longer whilst pushing gemstore fluff and working on the next content.. that would of been betterfor the players and still enable ANET to push gemsales because whales will always be whales and some players always look for the path of least resistance.. it would of been a win win.Now I would hazard a guess this will push players away from completing it or worse away from playing the game because it is simply a grotesquely unfair design element.