Superior Sigil of Nullification [Merged]

[Ashantara.8731]

That is truly ridiculous. I have ordered them at a low price and won't be finishing the collection until I get them, because I don't find the skins particularly appealing anyway and thus am in no hurry.

[Nash.3974]

Ok this is getting out of hand, we need a solution asap, I hope anet wont wait too long to add something like a crafting recipe because 8-9g for 1 sigil of which you need about 30 or something is ridiculous… I barely had gold for the other expensive mats and now I‘m stuck because I can’t afford the sigils :/

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

@Steve The Cynic.3217 said:

@"Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582" said:So, in the last two days, the Sigil which is needed for the new armour went from 2.5s to 9g, within a couple of hours 15,000 were bought from the TP and re-listed. Currently, they are only available from drops and any exotic with one is now starting at 13g and going up from there.

Sigil of Nullification on GW2Spidy

Can we get a recipe made for these sigils, please? That way the price will be tied to a T6 item and ecto, so they remain within reach of casual players and not a commodity to be hoarded by the TP barons and sold at the highest price the market can bear.

Sadly, that will just drive up the price of the relevant T6 material(s) and ectos, so we'd be back where we started except that it would impact crafting lots of other things.

The volume of T6 materials that are farmed/bought/sold means that a recipe like other sigil ones, that use one T6 per sigil would not even be a measurable change in demand.

[Eros.6801]

Now im truly glad that im finished the collection 10 hours ago when Arc were just 2g each and the sigil itself were 3g each, this kinda insane tbh, the armor set is really great and i doubt the price will drop within a week.

[Tanner Blackfeather.6509]

@"Nash.3974" said:Ok this is getting out of hand, we need a solution asap, I hope anet wont wait too long to add something like a crafting recipe because 8-9g for 1 sigil of which you need about 30 or something is ridiculous… I barely had gold for the other expensive mats and now I‘m stuck because I can’t afford the sigils :/

It's not "getting out of hand", it's a temporary surge in demand. If, in a month, the price hasn't stopped rising, then I can agree there's a problem.As it is, we're not even a week in. If you want the new shiny immediately, then you'll always have to pay a premium.

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

@"Cyninja.2954" said:The supply does not have to increase, the demand dropping is more than enough to drop the price.

People are once again blaming fictional TP barons and asking for not needed market influence because "I want my shiny now" mentality is going strong once again.

They're not fictional. There are people out there who can and do control whole portions of the economy.

ANet should have made a recipe for this sigil before introducing it as a material since the supply is limited and that would tie it to other materials and give it a value based on the already functioning economy.

Look at the graph on this link. You will see that in 1 hour nearly the entire stock of sigils was purchased and then once the demand goes up, thousands are dropped back into the economy for 500x more than they were purchased for and then it only gets worse from there. Like 4500x more expensive.BLTC Link

Don't try and tell people that TPBarons don't exist it's just willfully ignorant and plain wrong.

[mtpelion.4562]

This, ladies and gentlemen, is precisely why I never sell or trash ANY rune or sigil. I use the Mystic Forge to promote them to Exotic and then either store them for future use or sell them if they are valuable.

[Manasa Devi.7958]

I bought some when they were just over 1g. Kind of regretting now that I didn't buy a lot more of them.

Here's a tip to get some: 6th birthday level-up scrolls go to 60. Add 4 tomes of knowledge to get to 64 and you can pick one from the level-up rewards. Or lesser scrolls and more tomes. Or just tomes if you have them in the thousands. Also requires a free character slot of course.

[Glider.5792]

@Manasa Devi.7958 said:I bought some when they were just over 1g. Kind of regretting now that I didn't buy a lot more of them.

Here's a tip to get some: 6th birthday level-up scrolls go to 60. Add 4 tomes of knowledge to get to 64 and you can pick one from the level-up rewards. Or lesser scrolls and more tomes. Or just tomes if you have them in the thousands. Also requires a free character slot of course.

That by itself isnt realy worth it imo. At least lvl it to 80 and do the whole lvl 80 keyfarm while you're at it.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

This isn't the first time we've seen the "novelty effect" spike prices for an item that turns out to be not nearly as precious as people purport it to be. People complained about the price of the Superior Rune of Scavenging (needed for an achievement way back) and very quickly the price dropped, even though it doesn't drop in bulk from anywhere. People decried the price of Named Sunspear weapons when PoF launched. "80 gold! too much, it will never go down." And sure as the sun sets in the west, these weapons trade at around 10 gold these days.

A new shiny appears and lots of people are willing to pay extra to have it now. People who are 12 hours behind hear about the spike and panic, and are willing to pay more. And some who hear about it a few days later panic even more, are willing to pay even more. Those who hoarded the item are, of course, happy to have extra to sell to those panicked buyers at whatever price those people seem willing to pay.

The secret to spending less is... don't be willing to pay that much. The price will go down.

And if that's not fast enough for you, buy rare sigils cheaply and forge them. You'll get a lot of junk, but also Superior Air, Force (both worth some decent coin), several others worth selling, and also Nullification. Costs are around 6-7s per 'throw' and with a profit around 2s.

tl;dr this is a novelty effect demand spike; the price will go down, but not today or tomorrow, so wait it out.

The problem is that anet is forcing people to rely on an item that is either once per character or random chance for a collection that was one of their selling points for the episode. It makes the whole collection very tedious and frustrating.

The collection also requires 450 Mistronium. There's a handful of nodes on the map, three hearts, and limited other sources. For a lot of people, that it's going to be worse than some extra gold.Again, if you don't want to pay a premium, don't buy it this week.

Don't try and tell people that TPBarons don't exist it's just willfully ignorant and plain wrong.Of course TP Barons exist, but it's a misunderstanding of basic market forces to think that they can control the supply of anything in the game. If the demand wasn't high, no would be selling at anything above vendor +15%, which was the price last week.

Further, the sigil drops from other sources, including various exotic weapons that drop from anywhere. It is simply not possible for any person or consortium to control the price for long.

[Manasa Devi.7958]

@Glider.5792 said:

@Manasa Devi.7958 said:I bought some when they were just over 1g. Kind of regretting now that I didn't buy a lot more of them.

Here's a tip to get some: 6th birthday level-up scrolls go to 60. Add 4 tomes of knowledge to get to 64 and you can pick one from the level-up rewards. Or lesser scrolls and more tomes. Or just tomes if you have them in the thousands. Also requires a free character slot of course.

That by itself isnt realy worth it imo. At least lvl it to 80 and do the whole lvl 80 keyfarm while you're at it.It might be worth it to people who don't care to do key runs and just stockpile the scrolls and tomes.

[Ayrilana.1396]

I bought all mine the first day as I saw this happening. Luckily they’re only required for the collections and not needed when buying from the vendor.

[Cyninja.2954]

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

@"Cyninja.2954" said:The supply does not have to increase, the demand dropping is more than enough to drop the price.

People are once again blaming fictional TP barons and asking for not needed market influence because "I want my shiny now" mentality is going strong once again.

They're not fictional. There are people out there who can and do control whole portions of the economy.

ANet should have made a recipe for this sigil before introducing it as a material since the supply is limited and that would tie it to other materials and give it a value based on the already functioning economy.

Look at the graph on this link. You will see that in 1 hour nearly the entire stock of sigils was purchased and then once the demand goes up, thousands are dropped back into the economy for 500x more than they were purchased for and then it only gets worse from there. Like 4500x more expensive.

BLTC Link

Don't try and tell people that TPBarons don't exist it's just willfully ignorant and plain wrong.

You have shown many things. Not one thing you showed was proof of a minority cornering the market or being responsible for the dramatic price increase.

You are the exact person who likes to take multiple facts, make statements about them, come up with a group of people to blame (in this case in game wealthy minority) while not taking into account basic and mostly common knowledge how markets and large groups of people function or react. Especially since we have official statements from the past that market control on items is very seldom, very limited time wise and often not profitable for the controller.

I never said there is no rich players in GW2.

I never stated that there is no people who took advantage of early information and try to flip a quick buck.

I said the price spike is not due to some few TP barons and prices will drop once the spike is over.

Yes this does include thousands of normal GW2 players who might gamble on the item increasing in value and purchasing a stack for themselves. I have done so myself in the past if I had the chance. I am by far no where near where a TP baron might be.

[DaFishBob.6518]

I just think back to when swim speed infusions were worth farming for. And I like that people are exchanging gems for gold to fund their habits too.

[Malediktus.9250]

Mystic forge yellow sigils, should be easy enough to get 20 that way (if you dont mind some clicking)

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

All this would have been avoided if a recipe was made with the patch, just cut and paste any other sigil recipe code and add 50 kralkatite ore to it, done. No issues.

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:The supply does not have to increase, the demand dropping is more than enough to drop the price.

People are once again blaming fictional TP barons and asking for not needed market influence because "I want my shiny now" mentality is going strong once again.

They're not fictional. There are people out there who can and do control whole portions of the economy.

ANet should have made a recipe for this sigil before introducing it as a material since the supply is limited and that would tie it to other materials and give it a value based on the already functioning economy.

Look at the graph on this link. You will see that in 1 hour nearly the entire stock of sigils was purchased and then once the demand goes up, thousands are dropped back into the economy for 500x more than they were purchased for and then it only gets worse from there. Like 4500x more expensive.

BLTC Link

Don't try and tell people that TPBarons don't exist it's just willfully ignorant and plain wrong.

You have shown many things. Not one thing you showed was proof of a minority cornering the market or being responsible for the dramatic price increase.

You are the exact person who likes to take multiple facts, make statements about them, come up with a group of people to blame (in this case in game wealthy minority) while not taking into account basic and mostly common knowledge how markets and large groups of people function or react. Especially since we have official statements from the past that market control on items is very seldom, very limited time wise and often not profitable for the controller.

I never said there is no rich players in GW2.

I never stated that there is no people who took advantage of early information and try to flip a quick buck.

I said the price spike is not due to some few TP barons and prices will drop once the spike is over.

Yes this does include thousands of normal GW2 players who might gamble on the item increasing in value and purchasing a stack for themselves. I have done so myself in the past if I had the chance. I am by far no where near where a TP baron might be.

If you actually look at the data, 18k sigils were bought in 1 hour taking the supply from 22k to 4k. That's not a lot of people doing it all at once. It's the first person and maybe a few mates he told about it buying the entire stock because they were vendor price and it's obvious the demand is about to skyrocket. Then, as it does, you can see them dumping them back in making bulk gold from other players. That is controlling the market and it's a situation that shouldn't happen.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:All this would have been avoided if a recipe was made with the patch, just cut and paste any other sigil recipe code and add 50 kralkatite ore to it, done. No issues.

ANet could have also required 10 icy runestones in place of 1 sigil of nullification. That would be 10g instead of 6g (current market price).And frankly adding 50 kralk-ore is much much worse for most people, because it's so annoying to acquire, so actually: issues.

In general, it can be good for the game if some drops can be traded on the TP for high prices. That's more fun for most people, because it makes loot acquisition fun, rather than just about efficient management of inventory. The trade off is that when prices are high for something, those that want that thing have to pay more. And if it's a thing that already exists, well, some people have hoarded it and will profit from the novelty effect.

I get that your preference is to farm anything other than gold and not to have to wait. That doesn't necessarily make it good for the game or better for other people.

The main thing is: this is a short term effect. It cannot last, because there are simply too many sources of the sigils and the demand is temporary. If you don't want to pay a premium, don't. The price will drop.

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:All this would have been avoided if a recipe was made with the patch, just cut and paste any other sigil recipe code and add 50 kralkatite ore to it, done. No issues.

ANet could have also required 10 icy runestones in place of 1 sigil of nullification. That would be 10g instead of 6g (current market price).And frankly adding 50 kralk-ore is much much worse for most people, because it's so annoying to acquire, so actually: issues.

In general, it can be good for the game if some drops can be traded on the TP for high prices. That's more fun for most people, because it makes loot acquisition fun, rather than just about efficient management of inventory. The trade off is that when prices are high for something, those that want that thing have to pay more. And if it's a thing that already exists, well, some people have hoarded it and will profit from the novelty effect.

I get that your preference is to farm anything other than gold and not to have to wait. That doesn't necessarily make it good for the game or better for other people.

The main thing is: this is a short term effect. It cannot last, because there are simply too many sources of the sigils and the demand is temporary. If you don't want to pay a premium, don't. The price will drop.

Well, anything man, it doesn't matter what the recipe is as long as it's common materials that have a semi-stable price.

I agree its good if SOME drops can be traded for high prices, but when you are implementing a collection for the general populace that is going to have very high demand, you really do want to make the items required have a good supply. It took over a year for the supply of these sigils to go from 5k to 22k and then 1 hour to go back to 5k. The supply can't be that big.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:Well, anything man, it doesn't matter what the recipe is as long as it's common materials that have a semi-stable price.

It's not possible for it to have a stable price if a new shiny requires it. Only vendor-bought items have a stable price. There's really not much point to requiring plentiful mats, because, well, they are easily obtained.

I agree its good if SOME drops can be traded for high prices, but when you are implementing a collection for the general populace that is going to have very high demand, you really do want to make the items required have a good supply. It took over a year for the supply of these sigils to go from 5k to 22k and then 1 hour to go back to 5k. The supply can't be that big.

The supply doesn't have to be that big. It just has to be bigger than the demand. In the short term (this week), it's not, hence the price spike. In the long run, it will be, hence the predictable drop in price.

you really do want to make the items required have a good supply.Why do we really want that? What makes that so inherently good for the game that it should be a consideration?

[Mewcifer.5198]

The supply on the TP before the latest story was only enough for less than 900 to complete the collection. Even if I am generous in guessing how many people had enough of these stored away in their banks, that's still not nearly enough of the item for the number of people who will be wanting it for the collection.

And the only ways to increase the supply is leveling characters to 64 or rng. The supply is going to increase, but not at a good rate. Sure, some people might use a spare character slot to farm up some, but that's not going to be many people compared to how many are wanting these sigils now. That kind of tedious farming is not going to last long. Some people will try their hand at the mystic forge and rng to get them, but if they find that the cost of buying sigils to try and get the one they want with rng is not paying out, they will stop.

Supply increase might rise temporarily, but it's going to stagnate again real quick as people get bored or decide it's not worth the time and they can just farm istan.There needs to be a reliable source of these that can be used as needed, such as a crafting recipe. That way even if the supply on the TP starts to slack off, people can still go and craft it themselves. Also it would allow people to craft and sell them during the spike in demand to capitalize on the new collection instead of TP flipping which harms the economy when done with an item with such a limited source.

[Tanner Blackfeather.6509]

And look at that, it seems the trend is already pointing downward!https://www.gw2bltc.com/en/item/24572-Superior-Sigil-of-Nullification

It's almost like these scenarios follow a pattern... ;)

[Hesacon.8735]

I'm going to wait a few weeks to finish the collection. I'm in no hurry. Maybe in a week or two when they're back below 1 gold I'll finish it.

Once the prices start to slide, people are going to dump these things for whatever they can get.

[Ashantara.8731]

@Ashantara.8731 said:That is truly ridiculous. I have ordered them at a low price and won't be finishing the collection until I get them, because I don't find the skins particularly appealing anyway and thus am in no hurry.

LOL! Only a few hours later and I got all 15 I still need at the price I ordered them for, which is 1/3 of its former TP price (even less than its current price, btw). =) They say that patience is a virtue, but in this case it didn't take much patience. :p

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:Well, anything man, it doesn't matter what the recipe is as long as it's common materials that have a semi-stable price.

It's not possible for it to have a stable price if a new shiny requires it. Only vendor-bought items have a stable price. There's really not much point to requiring plentiful mats, because, well, they are easily obtained.

I agree its good if SOME drops can be traded for high prices, but when you are implementing a collection for the general populace that is going to have very high demand, you really do want to make the items required have a good supply. It took over a year for the supply of these sigils to go from 5k to 22k and then 1 hour to go back to 5k. The supply can't be that big.

The supply doesn't have to be that big. It just has to be bigger than the demand. In the short term (this week), it's not, hence the price spike. In the long run, it will be, hence the predictable drop in price.

you really do want to make the items required have a good supply.Why do we really want that? What makes that so inherently good for the game that it should be a consideration?

Sigil recipes use T6 materials which have a relatively stable price because of the huge numbers of them bought and sold daily. Even if every person who logged on this month bought 30 T6 from the TP to craft these sigils, you probably wouldn't be able to tell because as soon as the price went up a bit, people would dump the millions they have in the material storage. But the downward trend of T6 due to Istan farming is going to continue, so increased demand for crafting this armour set would have a negligible effect on their price while still removing them from the game.

It is inherently good when people are able to just play the game and obtain what they need, when you need to put off making the new set of armour for a month or more because one material is basically only available from the trading post, has very limited supply, very few ways more are introduced and the entire supply was bought up in 1 hit by just a couple of people, it's certainly not a positive.

People play games often for the escapism and having other people price the things they need out of reach due to their own greed is no different to real life where 8 men control 50% of the wealth of the world. It's bad for morale and the game in general. Plus, completely unnecessary, there are no positive benefits other than removing the supply of one item from the TP. Why couldn't they require Powerful Potions or something? There are over 2.2 million of those just sitting there doing nothing.

They could look up the supply any time they like and see that there is not even enough supply available for 1000 people to make the armor, it's just stupid really. Why do that? What's the logic behind that as a decision?