Superior Sigil of Nullification [Merged]

[Kalendraf.9521]

@Pirindolo.9427 said:The sigils will never again be under 5GI wouldn't say never, but without any further game updates, it could be several years before they dropped back to that level. On the other hand, all it would take is a game update such as adding a new recipe to craft the sigil, or adding them as a guaranteed reward for a daily achievement, or something similar to drive them well below that price.

[Swagger.1459]

@Merc The Forgotten.5610 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:

@Merc The Forgotten.5610 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:

@Merc The Forgotten.5610 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:

@Merc The Forgotten.5610 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:

@Merc The Forgotten.5610 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:

@Merc The Forgotten.5610 said:

@Dante.1763 said:

@Merc The Forgotten.5610 said:Anet now is the time to rethink the mount license system.Now that Belgium can't gamble anymore which is a good thing.This is now the moment to redo it in a way that also players from Belgium can still buy mounts unless you want to leave us out?Lets be honest 1200gems for a recycle skin is not gonna happen.And no way people are gonna buy all the skins for 21,600gems or so.There are plenty of ways to do it in a way Belgian players can still buy it. For example make a license ticket that just unlock all the mounts.I'm sure players from other countries will be happy to see that coming.

You are wrong about people buying all the skins, thats for sure.

Much ppl buy all the skins as a Belgian player you pay 1200gems for each skin thats way too much.Also the 1200gems for a recycle skin is way too much.The system needs to be rethinked or they gonna leave us out? Or they are gonna milk us even harder now because we finally got the RNG on gemstore items to go away in a way as punishment?

Nobody at Arenanet is trying to “milk” their customers. Skins are optional items that do not provide and advantage in the game.

I hate this attitude from anyone who complains about optional items made by game developers who don’t charge you a monthly fee to play the game, and who also happen to give out a ton of free content updates.

At such prices it does feel like milking. There just need to be a solution but not the one that there is now. RNG system is suppose to die off anyway and every company that uses it has to prepare or they gonna shut off whole europe and if you want it you need to pay a extreem high price while there are other solutions?

No, if Anet were milking they would be changing a monthly fee to play and having mounts on the store that have advantages over other mounts found in-game... You’ve been given a free path by exchanging gold to gems so use it.

Monthly fee would have scared away most of the playerbase. Specially those that made Anet grow. Then they probly had way less players to start with also and couldn't grow since it was a very big amount of players that came from gw1.It seems you also forgot that kids play the game also and in Europe kids are not allowed to gamble. Then they should have changed the age range of the game. But that would have limit the places they could sell the game which would . It is also clear for a while now that the rule Belgium has made would hit them also and it will spread over europe also. With the trade money to gems you would not even be able to buy with these prices and how high gems are going now.

Then the kids can farm gold and exchange for gems and get mount skins for FREE.

No matter how you spin it this system does not belong in a game. Games now are all about lootboxes aiming to milk us dry instead of proper content. Even in gw2 the focus is more on gemstore then content. Sure we get "free content" But it's also a way to keep us logging in. If you did not login it was not free content for you and you need to pay gems. So not exactly free content. Now it just become normal because we see it all the time and it is specially targetted towards childeren. Anyway we will see how this develops and it will show how much Anet really cares about the players and not just see us as dollar signs and if it really need this gambling in a game to stay alive it would have died anyway as soon more countries will implent the rule which is gonna happen anyway.This is a discussion that can go on forever and will have 2 sides anyway.If they dont proof they have a healthy solution then i just dont buy things anymore and like i said i doubt others will with such high prices.

Mounts aren’t “loot boxes”.

Listen, we had this same discussion over and over. Mike O’Brien created a thread and address the issue... Your suggestion would be best served asking for a reduction in mount license prices, as opposed to bringing up this “Belgium”, “rng”, “milking”, “kids”, “gambling” stuff... Anet provides a FREE path to obtain these items, these are not “loot boxes”, and you cannot sell these skins for real world money... so your Belgium “stuff” argument is weak.

Go farm the gold and get free stuff...

Well you can say my argument is weak but i think the same of your argument to talk gambling good we both have other opinions. Weak or not more countries are following and gambling already gave some good games a bad name. This game also had a lot of rants about it but now we are used to it but that still does not mean it is fine now.

The president of Anet already made official comments on this topic...

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/15523/a-message-about-the-mount-adoption-license

“Hi,

We made a commitment to you in March 2012 that we’d fund GW2 live development through non-pay-to-win microtransactions. We try different ideas, but we always hold true to that commitment. We’ve been collecting and discussing your feedback on the Mount Adoption License, and today I’d like to acknowledge and respond to the concerns you’ve raised, and to share our perspective with you.

You have valid concerns about random boxes. We hoped that the design of the Mount Adoption License would be reassuring. In this case, we made some missteps:

At a time when there’s a lot of debate about random boxes in gaming, we should have anticipated that a new system with a random element would cause alarm.We released mount skins with three different purchase models, but with the majority of skins released so far through the Adoption License. It’s easy to perceive this as intentionally channeling you toward randomization.The Adoption License is a large set at 30 skins. We stand by the work our artists put into each skin, but it’s understandable to see this as pushing down the odds of acquiring any one skin, and to worry that we might add more skins to lower the chances further.Here are some of the benefits we had in mind when designing the Mount Adoption License:

You get a brand-new, unique mount skin every time, for a substantial discount versus an individual purchase price.It uses a progressive mechanic. Every license gives you a new skin to use and increases the odds of acquiring any remaining skins.You’ve requested variety, and this is a way to support variety. Individual sale is a mechanic that works with a few, flashy skins. Using a grab bag mechanic gives us leeway to create skins to suit a wide range of player tastes while offering a lower price per skin.Microtransactions can be polarizing, and we’ve received both positive and negative feedback on the license. We won’t change the existing license in a way that would invalidate the investment players have made, but I want to confirm to you that our next planned mount skin releases will focus on individual sales like the Reforged Warhound and bundles like the Spooky Mounts Pack. We will not add any skins to the currently available Adoption License, thus not pushing down the odds of acquiring any one skin in that set.

We appreciate the thoughtful feedback many of you have provided, and that you hold us to high standards for monetization. It’s been a challenging but wonderful goal to support live development and Living World purely through optional microtransactions, and it’s your support that’s made that possible. Thank you.

~ MO”

Thats from BEFORE the law got implented. And you still does not seems to understand 30mounts or 21mounts for 1200gems is unbelievable expensive for a recycle skin. You can say convert ingame gold but thats just not possible for most of the people and that way also anet wont make money from it. And if it indeed are like 30skins back then that means it would now be 33-36skins because of beetle. You have any idea how much real money that is? That is like a month income for someone that works full time. You must be insane to give it for that. 2k gems 24€from a official store You need like 39,600gems. for 33skins that is utterly insane no way you can talk that good. These are not even special skins. These are recycle skins we are talking about. Skins were the moddels already existed from the basic skin and just added some marks on and gave 4 dye channels. Just seeing these prices should be a wake up call that the system needs to be re-done.

Well good thing that mount licenses and blank lion chests don’t fall under the Belgium law...

[Gaile Gray.6029]

This topic has been brought up, and addressed, many times. Please use the search engine and add your thoughts to the existing thread. But before posting, please make yourself aware, too, of the statements that ArenaNet has made, and the adjustments as a result of player feedback.

[Mister Asdasd.6194]

I just managed to make 5 sigils through gambling major sigils at the forge. If im going to make the collection i might as well do it by myself instead of feeding the whales.You might also get some of your gold back. Got some superior sigils of force, air and energy that sell for some gold.

[Gehenna.3625]

@Ol Nik.2518 said:

@Haleydawn.3764 said:

@Ol Nik.2518 said:Snip

Just to add a couple other Statistics;

152,654 (75.68%) of the total accounts registered on Gw2 Efficiency actually own Path of Fire, ergo, has access to the episode "A Star to Guide us".

At the time of writing, The Convergence of Sorrow I: Elegy has been completed by 15,212 of those 152.6K accounts (9.9650%). This collection costs no more than 20g and a bit of running around. This needs completing

before

you can even start Convergence of Sorrow II: Requiem.

So, of those 15,212 accounts that have played A Star to Guide Us and have completed CoS: Elegy, 1,679 (11.0373%) have gone on to complete Convergence of Sorrow II: Requiem. and this number does increase daily.

Just adding a bit of context to statistics which are too broad imo.

You make a very valid observation. However, I still cannot agree that there is no need for concern.

The number of people who completed "A Star to Guide Us" Mastery is 5 163 out of 182 034 (2.836%) (as of 2018-09-28, 8:00 PT). This is an achievement given for completing the majority of achievements on the map which suggests that those people are most likely completionists. Yet, for The Convergence of Sorrow II: Requiem collection which gives 10 APs it is only 1 716. Considering that the collection 1) is not time-gated and does not require immense quantities of materials or a lot of running around, 2) is very popular, I would expect higher completion rates. But this is not the case.

We still do not have enough data but it looks like the completion rates are slowing down despite all the hype and wide availability of guides. We will have to see what happens this weekend to have a better idea of this trend.

To be frank, at this point I would appreciate developers insight. Any information, any response would be nice.

The numbers from gwefficiency come down to roughly 10% of 10% of PoF owners. That makes it around 1% of PoF owners that completed the second part. I don't think that 1% of PoF owners is a lot to be honest. If the amount of players that complete the second part doubles, that'll be 2% of PoF owners. That still wouldn't make me think this was successful. On the upside, when you do get it done, at least you know not everybody will be running around with that same armor.

[Bloodstealer.5978]

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@"Mister Asdasd.6194" said:Remember when the topic creator was saying 3 gold was a problem? Yeah i wish we could go back to that time....

Without wanting to nitpick, no you would not.

Never go "back in time" on these kind of issues. You are now coveting to have spent 3 gold a couple of days ago, but that is only with hindsight. Obviously back then you were not willing to spend 3 gold per Sigil, so going back and spending those 3 gold would not make you happy. Unless you assume you could go back and spend 3 gold KNOWING the future development, in that case though why not go back even further and buy bitcoin?

Better be happy with your decision back then and consider it a valid approach in line with your character. Don't envy over missed opportunities, try to learn and make use of future ones.

That works both ways by the way, don't linger on things which went wrong. Learn from them and move on. You'll be happy overall. :)

Actually this whole collection malarkey can be considered a step back in time.. silver doubloons comes definitely to mind here.I asked long time back in this thread .. why did ANET revert to this silly method of using scarity of an in game item rather than follow their later models of fixed priced for all with some gates to go through.. this made no sense going backwards except to generate fastrack revenue and hope the ripple effect can be kept moving for as long as the demand from stock depletion and scarce resupply allows for.

[Bloodstealer.5978]

@creepyXtina.2560 said:I dunno if this question has been asked already but what the hell have sigils to do with armor anyway? What intern came up with this idea xD

I hope anet comes up with a solution about this. A recipe for the sigil requiring farmable materials would be nice!

I have made the comment more than once.. ANET chose to play silent, throughout all of this, for obvious reasons.

[Cyninja.2954]

@Bloodstealer.5978 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@"Mister Asdasd.6194" said:Remember when the topic creator was saying 3 gold was a problem? Yeah i wish we could go back to that time....

Without wanting to nitpick, no you would not.

Never go "back in time" on these kind of issues. You are now coveting to have spent 3 gold a couple of days ago, but that is only with hindsight. Obviously back then you were not willing to spend 3 gold per Sigil, so going back and spending those 3 gold would not make you happy. Unless you assume you could go back and spend 3 gold KNOWING the future development, in that case though why not go back even further and buy bitcoin?

Better be happy with your decision back then and consider it a valid approach in line with your character. Don't envy over missed opportunities, try to learn and make use of future ones.

That works both ways by the way, don't linger on things which went wrong. Learn from them and move on. You'll be happy overall. :)

Actually this whole collection malarkey can be considered a step back in time.. silver doubloons comes definitely to mind here.I asked long time back in this thread .. why did ANET revert to this silly method of using scarity of an in game item rather than follow their later models of fixed priced for all with some gates to go through.. this made no sense going backwards except to generate fastrack revenue and hope the ripple effect can be kept moving for as long as the demand from stock depletion and scarce resupply allows for.

We might never know. If we had access to more information we could make educated assumptions on what was reasonable to expect.

Maybe they underestimated the initial rush. Maybe they balanced it around a 3 month cycle doing math based on how many Sigils would enter the market in that time. Maybe they are fine with a price of 10-20 gold (useful Sigils have been in this price range in the past for very long periods of time).Maybe they just went with what fits best thematically. Who knows, it is hard to say at this point in time.

Ironically people buying gems and converting them to gold to buy Sigils (or people in general spending high gold on Sigils) while creating revenue for Arenanet exacerbates the issue even further at the cost of player dissatisfaction in the short term.

[Heibi.4251]

Got to the part that requires the sigil and just stopped. Are you kidding me ANeT? You actually created a collection that requires us to depend on the benevolence of players to offer a product at a reasonable price? They're rationing them on purpose to make sure the price stays high. To an earlier post that said there aren't players who control the economy - there are. This is the prime example. I've actually talked to one of these players that bragged that he had so much gold he could buy any guild he wants, or jack up the price of any needed commodity.

About the only way to get this sigil crisis corrected the sigil requirement should be deleted or you make it craftable using cheap abundant items that can't be affected as easily as requiring a sigil. Or simply reduce the number to 1 sigil each piece.

With the current number on the TP not even 10 people can complete the collection.

[Bloodstealer.5978]

@Pirindolo.9427 said:1) Playes that are ready to pay from 10g to 20g per sigil, will get the collection.2) Players that (like myself) don't care much and by no means will ever pay that, will NEVER get it.

The sigils will never again be under 5G

I think they will, it will just be quite a while yet imo.If additional uses outside of selling to the nearest vendor is implemented into the game then perhaps their value will find its happy place., much like with Mystic coins, if not I think they will eventually recede back to something a little above their pre release value.This collection will undoubtedly hit a cliff at some point it with only new players/returning players adding to the demand over time, which, after 6yrs I cant see being a huge influx. I just don't think demand will fall all that quickly unless some injection of supply happens we didn't know about or alternative routes to supply are added anytime soon.. but I wouldn't hold your breath on either happening.

[mtpelion.4562]

@Mister Asdasd.6194 said:I just managed to make 5 sigils through gambling major sigils at the forge. If im going to make the collection i might as well do it by myself instead of feeding the whales.You might also get some of your gold back. Got some superior sigils of force, air and energy that sell for some gold.

How many major sigils did it take to get your 5 Superior Sigils of Nullification?

[Bloodstealer.5978]

@mtpelion.4562 said:

@Mister Asdasd.6194 said:I just managed to make 5 sigils through gambling major sigils at the forge. If im going to make the collection i might as well do it by myself instead of feeding the whales.You might also get some of your gold back. Got some superior sigils of force, air and energy that sell for some gold.

How many major sigils did it take to get your 5 Superior Sigils of Nullification?

That would be telling :)More importantly.. what did the orthopaedic specialist have to say .. :)

[Bloodstealer.5978]

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Bloodstealer.5978 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@"Mister Asdasd.6194" said:Remember when the topic creator was saying 3 gold was a problem? Yeah i wish we could go back to that time....

Without wanting to nitpick, no you would not.

Never go "back in time" on these kind of issues. You are now coveting to have spent 3 gold a couple of days ago, but that is only with hindsight. Obviously back then you were not willing to spend 3 gold per Sigil, so going back and spending those 3 gold would not make you happy. Unless you assume you could go back and spend 3 gold KNOWING the future development, in that case though why not go back even further and buy bitcoin?

Better be happy with your decision back then and consider it a valid approach in line with your character. Don't envy over missed opportunities, try to learn and make use of future ones.

That works both ways by the way, don't linger on things which went wrong. Learn from them and move on. You'll be happy overall. :)

Actually this whole collection malarkey can be considered a step back in time.. silver doubloons comes definitely to mind here.I asked long time back in this thread .. why did ANET revert to this silly method of using scarity of an in game item rather than follow their later models of fixed priced for all with some gates to go through.. this made no sense going backwards except to generate fastrack revenue and hope the ripple effect can be kept moving for as long as the demand from stock depletion and scarce resupply allows for.

We might never know. If we had access to more information we could make educated assumptions on what was reasonable to expect.

Maybe they underestimated the initial rush. Maybe they balanced it around a 3 month cycle doing math based on how many Sigils would enter the market in that time. Maybe they are fine with a price of 10-20 gold (useful Sigils have been in this price range in the past for very long periods of time).Maybe they just went with what fits best thematically. Who knows, it is hard to say at this point in time.

Ironically people buying gems and converting them to gold to buy Sigils (or people in general spending high gold on Sigils) while creating revenue for Arenanet exacerbates the issue even further at the cost of player dissatisfaction in the short term.

Agreed to a point... but I cant get behind this being some kind of underestimation. That's why they have people who seek out trends, in order to forecast things like demand, revenue etc.. the cause and subsequent effect is pre-determined, it had to of been otherwise they would of introduced methods of acquisition outside of luck to support the content release. This is why the armour was put front centre on the release promo.There just isn't anything that could really justify, "we underestimated this", but yes they may well of made educated predictions on how many they expected to see completed over a specific cycle.. that way they could of forecasted expected revenue into their model, in fact I would expect them to do this with anything and everything within the framework of the game. That to me is not the issue here, it is the step back and grossly unfair way this has worked out for many players.. but that is now old hat its how best to deal with it going forward. Personally I would hope players pull back from gem to gold conversions and wait it out.The only way ANET will listen is if revenue is curtailed as quickly as this malarkey was thrown upon the playersbase, because its becomes a pointless exercise to put all that effort into delivering some good quality content (imo) if the return on it bombs because of out of whack market manipulation.

[eldrjth.7384]

I dont think the sigils are going to get much higher in price (I reckon the number of players willing to pay 10g+ for each is very limited). Theres a somewhat reliable way of getting them right now but relies on a bit of luck and thats through the mystic forge by combining 4 rare sigils. So if the price ever rose to say 20g per sigil it might become profitable for players to do this and that will take the price down a bit again. I think it will not drop to below 3g in price for atleast 6 months but It will eventually get to that point (rather than 5-10g as the long term price) even if anet doesnt do anything about it but the time frame were talking about for the price to drop is significant.

[Atticus.7194]

@"eldrjth.7384" said:I dont think the sigils are going to get much higher in price (I reckon the number of players willing to pay 10g+ for each is very limited). Theres a somewhat reliable way of getting them right now but relies on a bit of luck and thats through the mystic forge by combining 4 rare sigils. So if the price ever rose to say 20g per sigil it might become profitable for players to do this and that will take the price down a bit again. I think it will not drop to below 3g in price for atleast 6 months but It will eventually get to that point (rather than 5-10g as the long term price) even if anet doesnt do anything about it but the time frame were talking about for the price to drop is significant.

I think you're vastly underestimating what the ultra rich in this game do. They can keep the price inflated for months and months and months sitting on 10,000+ sigils and not care, they've already got thousands and thousands of gold piled up and have everything they could ever want already. All that's going to happen is the price is just going to go up and peoples patience is going to get shorter and shorter till eventually they'll say "screw it" and just buy the sigils.

Hell we're approaching 18g per sigil just since last night, that's a 3g increase overnight, so it wouldn't surprise me if they force the price up to 30-40g. The worst part is I would assume that would force ArenaNet to do something about it, but it won't just like I'd assume ArenaNet would learn from these mistakes but they won't just like they haven't in the past. The bummer is this time around part of their team made some really good quality content and it's absolutely tarnished and ruined because of other parts of the company that are massively dropping the ball (that's gotta feel great for them).

[Kalendraf.9521]

@"eldrjth.7384" said:I dont think the sigils are going to get much higher in price (I reckon the number of players willing to pay 10g+ for each is very limited).Are you sure? Each day so far, the higher and higher sell postings appear to be continually getting bought at a fairly steady clip.

Theres a somewhat reliable way of getting them right now but relies on a bit of luck and thats through the mystic forge by combining 4 rare sigils."reliable" and "luck" - quite the oxymoron there. You're right about the luck part, but relying on RNG for getting these out of the mystic toilet is far from reliable.

[Obtena.7952]

@Ol Nik.2518 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Bloodstealer.5978 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Bloodstealer.5978 said:The problem of price is the intended side effect of this collection and players will be upset by the price, but also how long it is going to realistically take many to complete.. because there just isn't enough supply or enough supply potential to fix either of the issues.ANET risk players loosing interest in this faster than they hoped because aside from the steer to buy gems and convert to gold to pay the grossly inflated prices.. they wont be able to buy the sigils anyway when supplies hit rock bottom and rely on trickle feeding through in game.Less than 1k left in the system, small amounts coming in daily so far... even if we said there had been 10k sigils pass through the TP since the collection launched (which I am fairly sure there hasn't) that still only accounts for around 400 ish players completing sets plus some that had stashes already or bought stock in the first few hours the recipe became known .. now that initial stock that was in the system prior to the content release has been depleted we are left to hope more players have been sat on stashes or we all get really lucky in the toilet, otherwise it going to be a very slow, very expensive collection.

Can you even prove that it’s a small amount that’s being generated each day? No. You cannot.

Oh c'mon, really!You don't need to be a rocket scientist to determine that supply is extremely slow and what little there is coming in, is outstripped by the demand.. unless your seeing some upward trend in supply that no one else is.. of course players could be sat on them hoping for a further significant price hike.. but I think we both know that dog has now had its day , only small spikes up and downs will likely be seen now. The price we are seeing now is where it is pretty much going to be for some time to come unless there is a drastic drop off in demand through loss of interest.. very possible imo.If your still not convinced try using some maths to determine the mystic forge odds of minor sigil to major sigil conversion, then major sigil to superior sigil of nullification... good luck with those numbers. Then lets ask ANET how many players are buying up hundreds of 2k gem lvl up tokens to feed all our sigil habits... that could be an interesting number for sure. Then take a look at the TP history on the sigil 1 day prior to release and where we are now.. if the supply was anything more than lousy we would not be at 900 sigils now.. it has barely got over 3k sigils early on and its dropped ever since... so how can you determine anything other than supply in is in anyway greater than a hundreds per day, rather than the thousands per day required... please counter with something other than.."you don't know, I don't know"..

EDIT - Apologies 840 Sigils now not 900, whoops 801 now.....

That doesn't measure how many sigils are made or consumed daily ... The fact is that you can't measure the 'flow' of mats with the information we have. It appears to me that the only requirement to determine that supply is extremely slow and what little there is coming in, is outstripped by the demand is degree in garbage science. Anyone with a real background in science would know that simply measuring volumes doesn't indicate rates of change.

Here is a scenario ... I have 300 at the beginning of the day ... I end up with 400 at the end of the day ... what is the number coming in and out that day?

here is a hint ... how many combinations of (QTY IN, QTY OUT) numbers can result in that scenario?

The bottomline is that you or me or anyone else does NOT have the data to conclude there is something wrong here. Again, even if there is something wrong, we know Anet will do something about it, like they have done with MC's. This isn't a price OR a volume driven decision. It's based on supply and demand, i.e., how many flow in and how many flow out. WE can't measure that with the data we have unless someone with a non-garbage science degree starts thinking about how to do it (it can be done, but it's nothing like what most people are even capable of imagining)

You are correct, we, the players, do not have enough data to get the exact numbers for how many sigils are acquired, used, or change hands. However, it does not mean that we cannot make educated guesses. Let me offer you some indirect evidence that '

there is something wrong here

'.

Right ... when people make conclusions based on missing data ... there is a name for that. Make all the educated guesses you want. It's pretty much irrelevant if you have some indirect evidence something is wrong; what is relevant is Anet's reasons for how they choose sigil for this. For all we know, it's not even that clever how they did it, or the reason is head shaking. I dunno, and neither does anyone else.

There is something wrong when sigils are unavailable to people and none of what you presented is 'evidence' people can't or aren't getting them.

[Cyninja.2954]

@Atticus.7194 said:

@"eldrjth.7384" said:I dont think the sigils are going to get much higher in price (I reckon the number of players willing to pay 10g+ for each is very limited). Theres a somewhat reliable way of getting them right now but relies on a bit of luck and thats through the mystic forge by combining 4 rare sigils. So if the price ever rose to say 20g per sigil it might become profitable for players to do this and that will take the price down a bit again. I think it will not drop to below 3g in price for atleast 6 months but It will

eventually

get to that point (rather than 5-10g as the long term price) even if anet doesnt do anything about it but the time frame were talking about for the price to drop is significant.

I think you're vastly underestimating what the ultra rich in this game do. They can keep the price inflated for months and months and months sitting on 10,000+ sigils and not care, they've already got thousands and thousands of gold piled up and have everything they could ever want already. All that's going to happen is the price is just going to go up and peoples patience is going to get shorter and shorter till eventually they'll say "screw it" and just buy the sigils.

Hell we're approaching 18g per sigil just since last night, that's a 3g increase overnight, so it wouldn't surprise me if they force the price up to 30-40g. The worst part is I would assume that would force ArenaNet to do something about it, but it won't just like I'd assume ArenaNet would learn from these mistakes but they won't just like they haven't in the past. The bummer is this time around part of their team made some really good quality content and it's absolutely tarnished and ruined because of other parts of the company that are massively dropping the ball (that's gotta feel great for them).

To what end? Burn gold endlessly?

Let us assume for a moment that some "ultra rich" players decided to do that. Let us assume they keep the price constant at 20 gold and buy up all supply which would threaten the price dropping. Want to take a guess what is going to happen next? Everybody will start selling at close to 20 gold per Sigil forcing our "ultra rich" players to continuously buy up Sigils at near 20 gold.

Now in order so sell a Sigil so you get 20 gold, you need to list it at around 23.53 gold since you have to pay the 15% TP tax. That's ONLY for covering your cost with 0 gain.

So now the "ultra rich" players have to keep buying Sigils up and relist at MINIMUM 23.53 gold. Guess what happens next: the cycle continues ad inifinitum or until 1 of 2 things happens:

A. our ultra rich player runs out of money since this is not sustainableB. there is no more people willing to buy his high prices leaving him with stock he can not resell to cover his cost

That's what I mean by making financial favorable decisions. No person in their right mind would ever do this. At least no one who wants to keep their gold. This only works short term as long as prices can increase and others are willing to go along. Obviously demand at the top end will become so low that it's not worth it to keep going. It is absolutely unsustainable without subsidies from some where else (aka covering your loss on this with some other income source).

[Eliphas.4862]

Right now they are at 16+ gold per sigil and all their derivatives.I really thinks is not fair by any means from ANet to put an achievement this important (or sought after) on a restriction that basically relies on RNG or having a ton of money.At this date the only people capable to get this achievement are the ones that already got it on day 1-2 or people with enough gold sitting around that don't mind paying 400+ gold on freaking sigils, the rest of us are screwed and force to either wait for the prices to go down again, which could take months, or wait for ANet to give us a way to craft the sigil.

[Ferus.3165]

@Eliphas.4862 said:Right now they are at 16+ gold per sigil and all their derivatives.I really thinks is not fair by any means from ANet to put an achievement this important (or sought after) on a restriction that basically relies on RNG or having a ton of money.At this date the only people capable to get this achievement are the ones that already got it on day 1-2 or people with enough gold sitting around that don't mind paying 400+ gold on freaking sigils, the rest of us are screwed and force to either wait for the prices to go down again, which could take months, or wait for ANet to give us a way to craft the sigil.

haha anet is very clever and they thought of another solution. buy gems!!!11!! :D

[Atticus.7194]

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Atticus.7194 said:

@"eldrjth.7384" said:I dont think the sigils are going to get much higher in price (I reckon the number of players willing to pay 10g+ for each is very limited). Theres a somewhat reliable way of getting them right now but relies on a bit of luck and thats through the mystic forge by combining 4 rare sigils. So if the price ever rose to say 20g per sigil it might become profitable for players to do this and that will take the price down a bit again. I think it will not drop to below 3g in price for atleast 6 months but It will

eventually

get to that point (rather than 5-10g as the long term price) even if anet doesnt do anything about it but the time frame were talking about for the price to drop is significant.

I think you're vastly underestimating what the ultra rich in this game do. They can keep the price inflated for months and months and months sitting on 10,000+ sigils and not care, they've already got thousands and thousands of gold piled up and have everything they could ever want already. All that's going to happen is the price is just going to go up and peoples patience is going to get shorter and shorter till eventually they'll say "screw it" and just buy the sigils.

Hell we're approaching 18g per sigil just since last night, that's a 3g increase overnight, so it wouldn't surprise me if they force the price up to 30-40g. The worst part is I would assume that would force ArenaNet to do something about it, but it won't just like I'd assume ArenaNet would learn from these mistakes but they won't just like they haven't in the past. The bummer is this time around part of their team made some really good quality content and it's absolutely tarnished and ruined because of other parts of the company that are massively dropping the ball (that's gotta feel great for them).

To what end? Burn gold endlessly?

Let us assume for a moment that some "ultra rich" players decided to do that. Let us assume they keep the price constant at 20 gold and buy up all supply which would threaten the price dropping. Want to take a guess what is going to happen next? Everybody will start selling at close to 20 gold per Sigil forcing our "ultra rich" players to continuously buy up Sigils at near 20 gold.

Now in order so sell a Sigil so you get 20 gold, you need to list it at around 23.53 gold since you have to pay the 15% TP tax. That's ONLY for covering your cost with 0 gain.

So now the "ultra rich" players have to keep buying Sigils up and relist at MINIMUM 23.53 gold. Guess what happens next: the cycle continues ad inifinitum or until 1 of 2 things happens:

A. our ultra rich player runs out of money since this is not sustainableB. there is no more people willing to buy his high prices leaving him with stock he can not resell to cover his cost

That's what I mean by making financial favorable decisions. No person in their right mind would ever do this. At least no one who wants to keep their gold. This only works short term as long as prices can increase and others are willing to go along. Obviously demand at the top end will become so low that it's not worth it to keep going. It is absolutely unsustainable without subsidies from some where else (aka covering your loss on this with some other income source).

They don't have to keep buying up anything, with no reliable means to replenish the market and allow players and it to rebalance the price naturally all they have to do is sit on their stockpile and ration the sigils they're listing. Given the number of players that will almost always want this armor (especially given the rarity of new armor sets themselves) demand will always outstrip the supply keeping the prices inflated all on it's own. This is why ArenaNet has to step in, there is no way for things to naturally fix themselves.

Also I think you're underestimating the sheer amount of gold a lot of players have. Many ultra rich players will never run out of gold, they're sitting on tens of thousands of gold already having made everything they could ever want. You could see them in action in Wooden Potatoes stream where they were just donating 3, 4, 5, 6 legendaries just because they liked WP and why not. That much literally meant nothing to them, they can burn 10,000g and it's whatever, these are the type of people controlling the market.

[Cyninja.2954]

@Atticus.7194 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Atticus.7194 said:

@"eldrjth.7384" said:I dont think the sigils are going to get much higher in price (I reckon the number of players willing to pay 10g+ for each is very limited). Theres a somewhat reliable way of getting them right now but relies on a bit of luck and thats through the mystic forge by combining 4 rare sigils. So if the price ever rose to say 20g per sigil it might become profitable for players to do this and that will take the price down a bit again. I think it will not drop to below 3g in price for atleast 6 months but It will

eventually

get to that point (rather than 5-10g as the long term price) even if anet doesnt do anything about it but the time frame were talking about for the price to drop is significant.

I think you're vastly underestimating what the ultra rich in this game do. They can keep the price inflated for months and months and months sitting on 10,000+ sigils and not care, they've already got thousands and thousands of gold piled up and have everything they could ever want already. All that's going to happen is the price is just going to go up and peoples patience is going to get shorter and shorter till eventually they'll say "screw it" and just buy the sigils.

Hell we're approaching 18g per sigil just since last night, that's a 3g increase overnight, so it wouldn't surprise me if they force the price up to 30-40g. The worst part is I would assume that would force ArenaNet to do something about it, but it won't just like I'd assume ArenaNet would learn from these mistakes but they won't just like they haven't in the past. The bummer is this time around part of their team made some really good quality content and it's absolutely tarnished and ruined because of other parts of the company that are massively dropping the ball (that's gotta feel great for them).

To what end? Burn gold endlessly?

Let us assume for a moment that some "ultra rich" players decided to do that. Let us assume they keep the price constant at 20 gold and buy up all supply which would threaten the price dropping. Want to take a guess what is going to happen next? Everybody will start selling at close to 20 gold per Sigil forcing our "ultra rich" players to continuously buy up Sigils at near 20 gold.

They don't have to keep buying up anything, with no reliable means to replenish the market and allow players and it to rebalance the price naturally all they have to do is sit on their stockpile and ration the sigils they're listing. Given the demand for requiem it will always out strip the supply keeping the prices inflated all on it's own. This is why ArenaNet has to step in, there is no way for things to naturally fix themselves.

Aehm no.

EDIT: let me explain in short: supply is constant, demand is finite. What you said makes no sense.

[Mewcifer.5198]

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Atticus.7194 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Atticus.7194 said:

@"eldrjth.7384" said:I dont think the sigils are going to get much higher in price (I reckon the number of players willing to pay 10g+ for each is very limited). Theres a somewhat reliable way of getting them right now but relies on a bit of luck and thats through the mystic forge by combining 4 rare sigils. So if the price ever rose to say 20g per sigil it might become profitable for players to do this and that will take the price down a bit again. I think it will not drop to below 3g in price for atleast 6 months but It will

eventually

get to that point (rather than 5-10g as the long term price) even if anet doesnt do anything about it but the time frame were talking about for the price to drop is significant.

I think you're vastly underestimating what the ultra rich in this game do. They can keep the price inflated for months and months and months sitting on 10,000+ sigils and not care, they've already got thousands and thousands of gold piled up and have everything they could ever want already. All that's going to happen is the price is just going to go up and peoples patience is going to get shorter and shorter till eventually they'll say "screw it" and just buy the sigils.

Hell we're approaching 18g per sigil just since last night, that's a 3g increase overnight, so it wouldn't surprise me if they force the price up to 30-40g. The worst part is I would assume that would force ArenaNet to do something about it, but it won't just like I'd assume ArenaNet would learn from these mistakes but they won't just like they haven't in the past. The bummer is this time around part of their team made some really good quality content and it's absolutely tarnished and ruined because of other parts of the company that are massively dropping the ball (that's gotta feel great for them).

To what end? Burn gold endlessly?

Let us assume for a moment that some "ultra rich" players decided to do that. Let us assume they keep the price constant at 20 gold and buy up all supply which would threaten the price dropping. Want to take a guess what is going to happen next? Everybody will start selling at close to 20 gold per Sigil forcing our "ultra rich" players to continuously buy up Sigils at near 20 gold.

They don't have to keep buying up anything, with no reliable means to replenish the market and allow players and it to rebalance the price naturally all they have to do is sit on their stockpile and ration the sigils they're listing. Given the demand for requiem it will always out strip the supply keeping the prices inflated all on it's own. This is why ArenaNet has to step in, there is no way for things to naturally fix themselves.

Aehm no.

EDIT: let me explain in short: supply is constant, demand is finite. What you said makes no sense.

Technically speaking the demand is not finite either, as new people join the game they create the possibility for more demand.

[Cyninja.2954]

@Mewcifer.5198 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Atticus.7194 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Atticus.7194 said:

@"eldrjth.7384" said:I dont think the sigils are going to get much higher in price (I reckon the number of players willing to pay 10g+ for each is very limited). Theres a somewhat reliable way of getting them right now but relies on a bit of luck and thats through the mystic forge by combining 4 rare sigils. So if the price ever rose to say 20g per sigil it might become profitable for players to do this and that will take the price down a bit again. I think it will not drop to below 3g in price for atleast 6 months but It will

eventually

get to that point (rather than 5-10g as the long term price) even if anet doesnt do anything about it but the time frame were talking about for the price to drop is significant.

I think you're vastly underestimating what the ultra rich in this game do. They can keep the price inflated for months and months and months sitting on 10,000+ sigils and not care, they've already got thousands and thousands of gold piled up and have everything they could ever want already. All that's going to happen is the price is just going to go up and peoples patience is going to get shorter and shorter till eventually they'll say "screw it" and just buy the sigils.

Hell we're approaching 18g per sigil just since last night, that's a 3g increase overnight, so it wouldn't surprise me if they force the price up to 30-40g. The worst part is I would assume that would force ArenaNet to do something about it, but it won't just like I'd assume ArenaNet would learn from these mistakes but they won't just like they haven't in the past. The bummer is this time around part of their team made some really good quality content and it's absolutely tarnished and ruined because of other parts of the company that are massively dropping the ball (that's gotta feel great for them).

To what end? Burn gold endlessly?

Let us assume for a moment that some "ultra rich" players decided to do that. Let us assume they keep the price constant at 20 gold and buy up all supply which would threaten the price dropping. Want to take a guess what is going to happen next? Everybody will start selling at close to 20 gold per Sigil forcing our "ultra rich" players to continuously buy up Sigils at near 20 gold.

They don't have to keep buying up anything, with no reliable means to replenish the market and allow players and it to rebalance the price naturally all they have to do is sit on their stockpile and ration the sigils they're listing. Given the demand for requiem it will always out strip the supply keeping the prices inflated all on it's own. This is why ArenaNet has to step in, there is no way for things to naturally fix themselves.

Aehm no.

EDIT: let me explain in short: supply is constant, demand is finite. What you said makes no sense.

Technically speaking the demand is not finite either, as new people join the game they create the possibility for more demand.

True but that assumes that Sigil supply is so low that it can not keep up with a fraction of new players coming to the game (since we know that not everyone will get the armor or collection or even wants to get the armor).

While that might technically true, it is highly unlikely. Especially since we can assume a couple of hundred Sigils per day entering the market if not more given how the supply climbed to over 3k within 2 days from being emptied last weekend.

[Bloodstealer.5978]

@Kalendraf.9521 said:

@"eldrjth.7384" said:I dont think the sigils are going to get much higher in price (I reckon the number of players willing to pay 10g+ for each is very limited).Are you sure? Each day so far, the higher and higher sell postings appear to be continually getting bought at a fairly steady clip.

Theres a somewhat

reliable

way of getting them right now but relies on a bit of

luck

and thats through the mystic forge by combining 4 rare sigils."reliable" and "luck" - quite the oxymoron there. You're right about the luck part, but relying on RNG for getting these out of the mystic toilet is far from reliable.

Yeah that was one of those head scratch and burst out laughing moments :)