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Superior Sigil of Nullification [Merged]

Kirkas.1430

By Kirkas.1430
in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

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Obtena.7952

Obtena.7952

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@Vagrant.7206 said:

@Zaoda.1653 said:I don't think many people understand here (or can even comprehend logic at all) that it's not all about the price of the sigils - the problem is more about the AVAILABILITY/SUPPLY/ACCESS of getting the sigils (at one point the supply dropped down to 40 sigils - enough for a total of ONE player in GW2 to get the armour - making it literally as rare as legendary armour)........
Like I said, people are willing to put in the time and effort. It's not all about the price of the sigils, it's the way in which they're obtained (or lack thereof)

So if the price had remained at 3 silver for everyone, we would still have a thread as large as this complaining about its availability/supply/access? The availability/supply/access may be the cause of the price increase but people only started caring about that when the price got too high for them. The price is the driving force behind these complaints.

Availability/Supply/Access is the primary problem, because it biases against players who have real life obligations or want to take their time and enjoy the content. All it takes is a few goobers to zip through the content as fast as possible, recognize the rarity and value in these sigils, and buy up the majority of the stock. Thus, the people without a day job can rush through content and make a ton of money on the TP for literally doing nothing other than getting there first.

Um, hold on here ... MMO's by their NATURE are biased against players that can't devote the time to play them ... so that's not a problem Anet can fix, or any other game developer.

Um, yes it is a problem they could've fixed in this instance. They could have selected a material that doesn't have a very low supply/drop rate, or they could've spread out the problem by allowing any sigil to be used.

They could have, but they didn't. Clearly, you haven't considered that. That doesn't change the fact that the difference in available playtime between players isn't something Anet should consider when they make content for a gamestyle that intrinsically (and should) favour people that can give more playtime to. That wouldn't make any sense.

Regardless, if you want to get sigils, there they are, siting, waiting for people to buy them on the TP or place buy orders if you want the armor. There isn't much value in talking about all the things Anet could have done when they consciously choose this implementation.

You assume this was an intentional decision on their part to have TP flippers jack up the prices on these things? Seems like a pretty bad intentional decision.

Or maybe it was a mistake.

I don't assume, I know. It's how prices re-normalize to market value when the game conditions change ... like it has done here. Anyone that sets up a market in the way it works in GW2 HAS to know people will do this. What other outcome could the people designing the TP anticipate? If it's based on player desire, it's driven by two kinds of people; those that want to pay the least and those that want to get paid the most. That's how prices remain competitive. That's why it works.

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Gop.8713

Gop.8713

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@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@Gop.8713 said:

@Kirkas.1430 said:Hello, we need to much of this for the Elegie Armor Set. The Price is to high and its not a regular drop. Only a Reward for Lv 64. The Price is 3gold in the Moment and only 18OO in the Blacklion Trading Market.

We need a Recipe or a other Sigil. That was hopefully not the thinking, making such a Sigil so expensive.Pls Anet.

If you don't want to pay today's market rate, wait. The sigil has no other use. Once the excitement dies down, it will fall to sub 20 silver or even vendor value. It also drops randomly from forging any four rare sigils and directly from a handful of exotics that contain it.

True although I'd love a recipie so I could make some gold off them while the price is good XD

If there was a recipe, the price wouldn't be high.

The price was only able to spike because the flow of new sigils into the game is low. With an easily-predictable supply, folks would not have panicked due to their perception of a critical shortage. And because there's no obvious supply, it's going to take more than a few days for the price to drop. Still, it will inevitably drop because the demand can't grow much, while the supply will steadily increase, whether there's a new recipe (or other source) glutting the market or not.

As others have pointed out, it would depend on the nature of the recipe. If it was time-gated or included rare account bound items or spendy mats, the effect on the price of the sigil on the tp would vary . . .

The situation in which
you
get to make money doesn't exist — if anyone can earn from a new recipe, then everyone can, and the price drops. We are already in the scenario in which only some people got to make out like bandits.

There happy medium doesn't exist, in which the price stays high and anyone can supply their own. If it did, then we'd never see these conversations about the economy being broken because of a shortage of this sigil or that rune or this firework or those dumplings. If one believes that ANet is clever enough to micromanage the economy to the point that they can predict prices resulting from new recipes, then why assume that they didn't predict the prices resulting from new collections? And likewise if one thinks they weren't able to recognize that a small reserve coupled with a trickle supply wouldn't lead to a panic market, why predict that they'd figure out just the right recipe to lower prices just the right amount?

You seem to have read a lot more into that than I actually said . . .

You said the price wouldn't remain high if there was a recipe, and I said the effect on the price would vary depending upon the recipe. This is obviously true if, for example, the recipe mats cost more than the sigil. But it would also be true if, for example, there was a time gate, since ppl buying on tp often buy bc they want it now and are not wiling to wait. It would also be true if the recipe used account bound mats -- ppl who buy on tp often buy bc they would rather use gold to buy an item than play the content that provides mats to build the item. And it would especially be true if the recipe was time-gated or used account bound mats and only produced account bound sigils. That recipe would have its primary effect only on players that are not currently in the market for the sigils at all, and so are not directly affecting the current price . . .

It is true that any of those examples would still impact the price, but they would not necessarily crash the price. I was actually thinking the same thing as you before the patch came out last Tuesday, that if they released a recipe or other method for acquiring the sigil it would crash the price, but someone else pointed out that the effect on the price would depend a lot on the actual solution released, which was a really good point, so I adopted it . . .

But I made no comment at all about which of these options would be best or if another solution might be better, nor did I express any opinion about how much I trusted anet to select a good solution or how effective they would be in implementing it once it was selected. So I'm not really sure what the second half of your reply was in reference to . . .

If you're curious, I believe the current situation is probably the result of an error of inattention, and if that is true it is unlikely that any solution would repeat at least that particular error. When you screw something up bc you weren't paying attn you tend to pay a lot more attn when you're trying to fix it. Plus I just tend to think anet does a pretty good job most of the time and the idea that they would screw something up and then screw up trying to fix it just seems unlikely to me. Idk if that just means I have low standards but if you wanted to know what I actually thought there it is . . .

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Gop.8713

Gop.8713

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@Hyper Cutter.9376 said:This is now the 6th most expensive sigil in the game, behind three that are literally not obtainable any more and two that require one of the rarest items in the game (freshwater pearls) as crafting material.

Yeah it didn't take long for it to get up there, just a few days after ep 4 came out. Third most expensive superior sigil. Up there with another two that are also not readily accessible by other means. And you give a good example of how something doesn't always get cheaper just bc there is a recipe for it. You pretty much just summarized 30 pages in two lines actually. Impressively done . . .

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Clyan.1593

Clyan.1593

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@MachineManXX.9746 said:

@Clyan.1593 said:Well you need 63 x 25 (= 1575) tomes to get 25 sigils of nullification by reaching lvl 64.Is that a good thing? Maybe. Is it reasonable? No.

Funny is, most WvW Player wil have that many. I just converted like 2000 into Shards 2 weeks before. Sad me.

That might be true, but not everyone is a WvW player. I for example just had to buy 25 sigils.Sure, we have different solutions of how to get these, but none of them seems reasonable or helping to sink the price of these sigil on the TP.

But the biggest problem in my opinion is not the price on TP, but the really low supply of those sigils on it.Last I checked we had a supply of around 1700 sigils of nullification on the TP. That's a joke.How many players is that? 1700 : 25 = 68

... lol

What you said does not make sense. If the price isn't a problem, then supply has no meaning as long as there are as many as you need. If you need 25, then there could be 25, or 25,000,000 and it would make no difference.

Eh... what I meant is exactly that. The price doesnt matter. You see, some people can afford to buy stuff that costs 10000 g in the game, I'm serious. But the supply in this case actually IS a problem, because as I stated above 1700 sigils equals 68 players being able to complete the achievement. And yes, supply has no meaning as long as there are enough sigils as I need. But beyond me there are many other people who would like to get 25 sigils as well. I'm not sure if I can follow you honestly. Demand, supply and price are linked - I know that, but that's not what I am talking about.

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Gop.8713

Gop.8713

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@Tyson.5160 said:

@Gop.8713 said:I feel like if they were going to fix it it would have been last Tuesday. Once Halloween comes ppl will forget about this and move on to the next thing . . .

Maybe it’s more complex then we realize.

Eh, ordinarily I might agree but in this case we just need an additional method of acquiring the sigil, we don't really need them to change the collection or anything. Ofc they could still add something and it would be a pleasant surprise. Or they could have decided to live and learn and just leave it be. Which is what makes the lack of communication more frustrating than the actual issue. Though I also understand why they wouldn't want to risk overpromising and underdelivering a solution at this point either . . .

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Gop.8713

Gop.8713

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@phandaria.4891 said:

@Gop.8713 said:I feel like if they were going to fix it it would have been last Tuesday. Once Halloween comes ppl will forget about this and move on to the next thing . . .

Nah, people are hoping the halloween patch would change things up, i.e. make this sigil obtainable during the limited event in some way, to break the monopoly.

That would be cool, something only available during the festival to provide a supply spike to satisfy demand but then return to pre-festival levels afterwards. Pretty short notice though, I would imagine the festival content should be pretty much set for release at this point . . .

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Talindra.4958

Talindra.4958

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The person who hold the supply can play games with you to manipulate the price. He can fake few orders .. you put on top, he put on top of you again .. someone else put on top, he will push it up again, until next person silly enough to place an order of 10 .. he will sell directly.My advice is if you really desperately must buy it now, buy soulshard and grimward to salvage instead. Both weapons drop very frequently in raids. You get genuine supply during raid reset

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Tanner Blackfeather.6509

Tanner Blackfeather.6509

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@Talindra.4958 said:The person who hold the supply can play games with you to manipulate the price. He can fake few orders .. you put on top, he put on top of you again .. someone else put on top, he will push it up again, until next person silly enough to place an order of 10 .. he will sell directly.My advice is if you really desperately must buy it now, buy soulshard and grimward to salvage instead. Both weapons drop very frequently in raids. You get genuine supply during raid reset

The likelyhood that anyone actually controls supply now is miniscule, given how many sigils that have been used for collections vs how many were on the TP prior to the patch. Anyone trying to buy up new supply to relist higher is bleeding gold with no hope to make it back from this.

Arguably, a few people likely controlled the supply the first few days but once those sigils were spent on collections that control is also gone.

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Daniel.9713

Daniel.9713

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I see that a lot on this thread has gone to speculate on rather there are players manipulating the economy or not.I don't think it should be the focus here, because if a game has a market, it is there to be a free market, people unfortunately are going to exploit it.

Instead, the playerbase should show the developers that the choice of this sigil in particular is the halt in the collection.So, do not feel disencouraged to start the collection, do start and get as far as you can, ask your friends that are interested in the collection to do the same.Get as far as you can, if you already have the sigil, by all means use it. But don't go to the TP to buy it for the price that it is at the moment...it is beyond unresonable.

I agree that having the collection halted in the middle is frustrating, but do start it, and do get stuck in the sigil like everyone else, but by doing so,it'll show in the metrics where the problem is.

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maddoctor.2738

maddoctor.2738

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On one hand, this gave a value to Tomes of Knowledge, you get a Sigil of Nullification when you reach level 64, which means 63 ToKs are equal to 1 Sigil value. Since you need 25 sigils to finish the collection, that's 1575 (!!!) Tomes of Knowledge, that's an insane amount for sure. There are only 1270 sigils on the TP, which means even if they are all bought by players, only 50 (!!!) players will complete the collection.

I don't think adding a rare sigil (that is also available from leveling) to this collection was a bad idea, because it gives value to the Tomes. But the amount needed (25) is beyond excessive and is a prime reason why the price of the sigil has gone so sky high. It would be nice if they added new rewards in Trick-or-Treat bags that contain Sigil of Nullification, that would a good way to fight this current problem and at the same time create more incentive for Halloween.

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