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Superior Sigil of Nullification [Merged]


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ArenaNet, I'm disappointed and angry with you for doing this again, yeah I still remember Superior Rune of Snowfall. The gold sink for this collection should've been around 40-50g worth of materials in my honest opinion. This player market inflation with Superior Sigil of Nullification is not okay, it is a item used for nothing else but a pointless gold sink now, there is not enough supply for this Sigil and it cannot be crafted. This collection is going to be popular for a long time imo, the Sigil may never stop being abused by rich players.

I want to shout and scold you, because I care and I'm passionate, but I'm doing my best not to do that. This situation has become unfair, this isn't Legendary or Ascended Items, it shouldn't cost (currently) 150g or more. Will you please change the Sigil of Nullification, get rid of it and replace it with a more common material or give it a crafting recipe. Maybe you could lower the amount needed.

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@"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:The more people talk about how bad this is, the more people will panic and be willing to spend 5-6g for each of 25 sigils. Like any novelty effect, this will die down once people stop rushing to finish.

Most people would have vendored the sigils because they weren't worth more than vendor + TP fees, so it's meaningless to look at how long the supply on the TP took to accumulate. Further, there are lots of sigils entering the game through the silverwastes, as they drop on weapons available through its version of champ bags. There's also sigils from generic loot.

As a group, we players think the TP somehow reflects the supply inside the game; it doesn't. It reflects the supply that people are willing to trade for money. 25k is a matter of a few hundred people hoarding a few hundred sigils each.

Well what you say could be true but you are also just guessing and you have absolutely no numbers or anything else than your guess "Most people". And again 25k sigils is actually almost nothing, that would be enough for 1000 players. In a game with probably some million players. Like i said, even if those sigils would accumulate 10 times as fast now as they were before (20k sigils a month) it would take 15 years to supply ~150k people.

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I don't normally post on forums, but this seems like a very questionable decision, making the sigil part of the collection.

Some quick math from data on GW2 tp or GW2 Spidy shows that before the patch, there were roughly 22,500 sigils available on the tp. 25 are needed for the collection so roughly 900 players can complete it with the current supply. From the Wiki, the only way to obtain these sigils is from salvaging exotic weapons, from the level 64 reward, and from the mystic forge.

Secondly, to people saying that people didn't buy large numbers of the sigils early on, or think that this isn't a problem, again we can look at the data on GW2 tp and GW2 spidy. You can see that roughly 1500 sigils were put up on the tp between 11:30pm and 11:40pm est on the 21st, for roughly 5g each. You can't prove this was one person posting, but it is likely. By taking advantage of the new unpredictable demand this person has made around 7500g.

Whether or not this is an acceptable part of episode 4, you could argue both ways. However, I (and probably the majority of players) would rather not spend every new living world release frantically trying to find out if some old resource is now required to obtain the new items. And no, i don't feel like speedrunning 25 characters to level 64.

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@Ferus.3165 said:

@"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:The more people talk about how bad this is, the more people will panic and be willing to spend 5-6g for each of 25 sigils. Like any novelty effect, this will die down once people stop rushing to finish.

Most people would have vendored the sigils because they weren't worth more than vendor + TP fees, so it's meaningless to look at how long the supply
on the TP
took to accumulate. Further, there are lots of sigils entering the game through the silverwastes, as they drop on weapons available through its version of champ bags. There's also sigils from generic loot.

As a group, we players think the TP somehow reflects the supply inside the game; it doesn't. It reflects the supply that people are willing to trade for money. 25k is a matter of a few hundred people hoarding a few hundred sigils each.

Well what you say could be true but you are also just guessing and you have absolutely no numbers or anything else than your guess "Most people". And again 25k sigils is actually almost nothing, that would be enough for 1000 players. In a game with probably some million players. Like i said, even if those sigils would accumulate 10 times as fast now as they were before (20k sigils a month) it would take 15 years to supply ~150k people.

I'm not "guessing."

In the specific case: I had 200 of the sigils sitting in my bank because I used to replace "of slaying" sigils regularly and this was something I'd throw in if I needed boon removal without a mesmer. I bought a stack of about 20-25 different sorts of sigils because it was easier (for me) to swap from my bank than buying on the TP. And I'm not alone, because I got the idea from reading about someone else doing it.

And that's just people who bought because they had a use for it. There are plenty of people who hoard just for situations like what happened this week. Some who spent money on extra accounts partly to have a place to store these investments.

More generally, there are lots of other examples of players drastically undercounting the amount of items produced in game, proven wrong by circumstances or (less often) by ANet. Every time something like this comes up, people insist that the supply is too low, that we'll run out, and that never happens for anything that still drops. There are far more people farming Silverwastes than we think, and they get tons of drops, some of which will include weapons with the sigil.

In addition, this sigil also drops randomly from the mystic forge from toileting 4 major sigils. Last time I ran the numbers, Nullification had about a 1.8% chance of dropping if you get an exotic (just under 0.4% of all forges). Not great odds by itself, but taken collectively with all potential drops, it's profitable to throw rare sigils at zomorros, so that will also affect the number entering the game.

Remember, I'm not talking about "most people." I'm talking about a few hundred people who happen to have kept a few hundred sigils for whatever reason. That doesn't include all the people who probably have a handful nor the hoarders who have more.

Still, proof in the pudding: let's wait a month and see what happens. Your prediction: we'll run out (or ANet will intervene). My prediction: price will probably start to drop. (Historically, it's taken 3-5 months for Novelty spikes to disappear and the market return to the old equilibrium; I suspect it will be about the same this time, maybe closer to 5 months.)

tl;dr there's way more sigils stored and produced than are dreamt of in your philosophy

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@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:The more people talk about how bad this is, the more people will panic and be willing to spend 5-6g for each of 25 sigils. Like any novelty effect, this will die down once people stop rushing to finish.

Most people would have vendored the sigils because they weren't worth more than vendor + TP fees, so it's meaningless to look at how long the supply
on the TP
took to accumulate. Further, there are lots of sigils entering the game through the silverwastes, as they drop on weapons available through its version of champ bags. There's also sigils from generic loot.

As a group, we players think the TP somehow reflects the supply inside the game; it doesn't. It reflects the supply that people are willing to trade for money. 25k is a matter of a few hundred people hoarding a few hundred sigils each.

Well what you say could be true but you are also just guessing and you have absolutely no numbers or anything else than your guess "Most people". And again 25k sigils is actually almost nothing, that would be enough for 1000 players. In a game with probably some million players. Like i said, even if those sigils would accumulate 10 times as fast now as they were before (20k sigils a month) it would take 15 years to supply ~150k people.

I'm not "guessing."

In the specific case: I had 200 of the sigils sitting in my bank because I used to replace "of slaying" sigils regularly and this was something I'd throw in if I needed boon removal without a mesmer. I bought a stack of about 20-25 different sorts of sigils because it was easier (for me) to swap from my bank than buying on the TP. And I'm not alone, because I got the idea from reading about someone else doing it.

And that's just people who bought because they had a use for it. There are plenty of people who hoard just for situations like what happened this week. Some who spent money on extra accounts partly to have a place to store these investments.

More generally, there are lots of other examples of players drastically undercounting the amount of items produced in game, proven wrong by circumstances or (less often) by ANet. Every time something like this comes up, people insist that the supply is too low, that we'll run out, and that never happens for anything that still drops. There are far more people farming Silverwastes than we think, and they get tons of drops, some of which will include weapons with the sigil.

In addition, this sigil also drops randomly from the mystic forge from toileting 4 major sigils. Last time I ran the numbers,
Nullification
had about a 1.8% chance of dropping if you get an exotic (just under 0.4% of all forges). Not great odds by itself, but taken collectively with all potential drops, it's profitable to throw rare sigils at zomorros, so that will also affect the number entering the game.

Remember, I'm not talking about "most people." I'm talking about a few hundred people who happen to have kept a few hundred sigils for whatever reason. That doesn't include all the people who probably have a handful nor the hoarders who have more.

Still, proof in the pudding: let's wait a month and see what happens. Your prediction: we'll run out (or ANet will intervene). My prediction: price will probably start to drop. (Historically, it's taken 3-5 months for Novelty spikes to disappear and the market return to the old equilibrium; I suspect it will be about the same this time, maybe closer to 5 months.)

tl;dr there's way more sigils stored and produced than are dreamt of in your philosophy

haha even though you cannot backup your philosophy (just because you did something does not mean many people do it :D :D :D and what do a few hundred hoarders have to do with anything? They would increase the supply once by a few 100000 sigils maybe. 100k sigils are enough for 4k players when there are over a million) it is very likely that anet members have far more insight in this matter and they chose this sigil for a reason.

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@Danikat.8537 said:That's a good point actually - if you're one of those people who has far more Tomes of Knowledge than you know what to do with now could be a good time to use them. Get a character to level 64, get the sigil, sell it, delete the character and repeat. It'd be boring but relatively quick and some of the other level up rewards can be useful or profitable too (I believe it's now the only source of karma boosters, which always come in useful during Wintersday).

Ó.Ó i have something like 20+ stacks of tomes. Ó.Ó i always stacked them since i started play gw2.

i already did math , its like 546 gold, since the sigil is 7g

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@ugrakarma.9416 said:

@Danikat.8537 said:That's a good point actually - if you're one of those people who has far more Tomes of Knowledge than you know what to do with now could be a good time to use them. Get a character to level 64, get the sigil, sell it, delete the character and repeat. It'd be boring but relatively quick and some of the other level up rewards can be useful or profitable too (I believe it's now the only source of karma boosters, which always come in useful during Wintersday).

Ó.Ó i have something like 20+ stacks of tomes. Ó.Ó i always stacked them since i started play gw2

Then you can use some of those stacks to get those sigils basicly for free. It would probably be even better if you did the personal story up to lvl 60 aswell (for black lion keys)

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My charr aready looks baddass, the new armor (even the Xmas tree version) would not fit my theme at all. Next time hopefully.

I suppose a lot of people think that way : why waste time and ressources if you’re not attracted to the skin ? I haven’t looked the other sets but Heavy armor set isn’t that amazin’ or special imo.

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I thought it was really random to make this particular sigil, required for the requiem armour. COMPLETELY random.

Oh well, I'll make hay while it lasts and just create new chars with my level up scrolls and tomes of knowledge, level them to 64 (or perhaps 68 for the 1 ecto), get the sigil, sell on the trading post, and repeat.

I can't be bothered paying for 25 of these ridiculously over-priced sigils simply because some 'genius' decided to make it a 'requirement' for the requiem armour. Apparently it's something like a 30,000% price increase from their original value. How absurd is that!?!? I say a big HELL NOPE to that!

The prices will come down, because as long as it's available at level 64 on a new character, it'll always be available to obtain. If people want them badly enough, just farm them on new characters and make it dirt cheap again - as it should be. Use your level scrolls and tomes of knowledge (if you aren't using them for making mystic-forge-specific exotic weapons) to make a bit of money, or simply for using them for the requiem armour.

As for me, I refuse to pay 120+ gold for something that would have normally not even cost a total of 1g before the announcement of the sigil being required for requiem armour.

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@Zaoda.1653 said:I thought it was really random to make this particular sigil, required for the requiem armour. COMPLETELY random.

Oh well, I'll make hay while it lasts and just create new chars with my level up scrolls and tomes of knowledge, level them to 64 (or perhaps 68 for the 1 ecto), get the sigil, sell on the trading post, and repeat.

I can't be bothered paying for 25 of these ridiculously over-priced sigils simply because some 'genius' decided to make it a 'requirement' for the requiem armour. Apparently it's something like a 30,000% price increase from their original value. How absurd is that!?!? I say a big HELL NOPE to that!

The prices will come down, because as long as it's available at level 64 on a new character, it'll always be available to obtain. If people want them badly enough, just farm them on new characters and make it dirt cheap again - as it should be. Use your level scrolls and tomes of knowledge (if you aren't using them for making mystic-forge-specific exotic weapons) to make a bit of money, or simply for using them for the requiem armour.

As for me, I refuse to pay 120+ gold for something that would have normally not even cost a total of 1g before the announcement of the sigil being required for requiem armour.

the problem is, that even if everyone would just have bought the amount he/she needs for the collection the price would still be that high, because there are not enough sigils available in the game. At monday there were ~ 20k sigils in the traiding post, that is enough for 800 players. And now search how many people play gw2 and compare the numbers. The few people that don't want to spent the gold and have enough toks are lucky.

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@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@gerrylix.5234 said:If the sigil pool dries up more, this armor will cost more than a gemstore skin for 800 gems.

This LWS is one of the finest so far (besides the usual bugs) but this sigil issue overshadows the whole experience for me.

And in a month the price will be back down.

The influx is way to low for this reasoning. Read it a few times in this thread but i don't see where all those sigils should come from.

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