Superior Sigil of Nullification [Merged]

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

Actually, just like leveling a character for the Sigil, there are in-game methods of acquiring Extraction Tools or BL Salvage Kits at no real money costs.

[Odinens.5920]

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:Actually, just like leveling a character for the Sigil, there are in-game methods of acquiring Extraction Tools or BL Salvage Kits at no real money costs.

If you are talking about the key farm that is still a real money cost, because players like me that don't have a spare character slot to make and delete toons all the time, have to buy one, which costs gems.

[Arkantos.7460]

omg as if you pve boys not the riches ones in the game ....

[Cyninja.2954]

@"Odinens.5920" said:Not sure why people keep defending this sigil/rune change when it's clearly negatively affected a whole lot of people.

1. drops rates for motes/symbols/etc are way too low. More people agree with this than don't.

Sure, a lot of people would also want legendäres for 1 gold, doesn't make them right or correct from am economic perspective.

2. as such, it's still faster and easier to use the level up method to obtain ONE sigil. May as well not even have the crafting option, since it clearly hasn't changed ANYthing with regards to this collection.

It's an OPTION, people demanded an option to the TP. The option does not mean it is free of charge.

3. on the off chance you get a weapon drop with a null sigil in it (or any rune/sigil for that matter) guess what - if you want to keep that sigil you now have to pay real money to keep it, because the only 2 ways to get it are either an extraction tool or a BL salvage kit, both of which are only obtainable thru the gem store....that's a scam in my book.

Sell the exotic, buy the sigil. Problem solved.

[Saint Sated.2698]

What I'm doing to collect enough Control Symbols is:

(1) Buy as many stacks of superior and major sigils that are "Control" based. Cheaper options are Sigil of Battle and Sigil of Frailty, check tp. Salvage with a Mystic Salvage kit.(2) Crafting superior sigil of bounty (the sigil that gives +9 concentration when killing a foe) because it requires an 3 Symbols of Enhancement but salvaging the sigil gives Symbols of Control. Also requires the Draconic Mons currency. Salvage with a Mystic Salvage kit.

Hope this helps someone, cheers.

[Magnus Godrik.5841]

This nothing compared to sigil of mischief and snowfall runes, which you need 50 of each, just for a shoulder piece. Take that.

[Etria.3642]

I have to laugh at the person who said the materials for the armor would only be 4 gold. Did you LOOK at the other materials required?

I just recently completed the collection after my buy order for the symbols of control filled at 89 silver. The collection also requires a fair amount of amalgamated gemstones and ectoplasm. This was NEVER supposed to be cheap. Fortunately for me in the time it took for the buy order I farmed everything else.

And now I am loving the prices on ectos and rares to recoup my control investment.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

@Odinens.5920 said:

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:Actually, just like leveling a character for the Sigil, there are in-game methods of acquiring Extraction Tools or BL Salvage Kits at no real money costs.

If you are talking about the key farm that is still a real money cost, because players like me that don't have a spare character slot to make and delete toons all the time, have to buy one, which costs gems.

Daily log-in, four times per 28-day cycle. :)I'd guess the players using leveling-up for the Sigil would require a character slot, as well.

[Diak Atoli.2085]

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

@Odinens.5920 said:

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:Actually, just like leveling a character for the Sigil, there are in-game methods of acquiring Extraction Tools or BL Salvage Kits at no real money costs.

If you are talking about the key farm that is still a real money cost, because players like me that don't have a spare character slot to make and delete toons all the time, have to buy one, which costs gems.

Daily log-in, four times per 28-day cycle. :)

Also Daily Fractal reward chests and achievement chests have a chance to drop them.

[Dante.1763]

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

@Odinens.5920 said:

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:Actually, just like leveling a character for the Sigil, there are in-game methods of acquiring Extraction Tools or BL Salvage Kits at no real money costs.

If you are talking about the key farm that is still a real money cost, because players like me that don't have a spare character slot to make and delete toons all the time, have to buy one, which costs gems.

Daily log-in, four times per 28-day cycle. :)I'd guess the players using leveling-up for the Sigil would require a character slot, as well.

Ive never gotten a key, or a salvage kit from the daily login. I get nothing but merchants and bankers and defending this by saying that RNG gemstore items is the way to go is laughable.

[yann.1946]

@Dante.1763 said:

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

@Odinens.5920 said:

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:Actually, just like leveling a character for the Sigil, there are in-game methods of acquiring Extraction Tools or BL Salvage Kits at no real money costs.

If you are talking about the key farm that is still a real money cost, because players like me that don't have a spare character slot to make and delete toons all the time, have to buy one, which costs gems.

Daily log-in, four times per 28-day cycle. :)I'd guess the players using leveling-up for the Sigil would require a character slot, as well.

Ive never gotten a key, or a salvage kit from the daily login. I get nothing but merchants and bankers and defending this by saying that RNG gemstore items is the way to go is laughable.

Equally laughable as people blindly hating and claiming malice where their is non. But that's trendy I guess.

[zealex.9410]

@Hyper Cutter.9376 said:

@"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:Premium skins have premium costs.It's not a "premium skin", any more than Mark Y Golem or Wayfarer's Henge or the commander banner or any other living story collection was. All of which cost little to no gold to make.

Those were backpieces, this is an armor set. Not only for the majority of ppl its a bigger deal but it takes way more to make them for anet. I'd say its more of a premium skin than backpieces we get every 1,2 or w/e episodes.

@"Ashen.2907" said:Selling a luxury item to people at a price they are willing and able to pay is not, "ripping people off."It wasn't sold to the public as a luxury item, it was sold as the flagship feature of the new episode. Something to be obtained by

actually playing the game

, not playing the TP.

Idk, if i wanted to get it i could do fractals or play the map events the buy the runes with the gold i collected, i wouldnt play the tp, i dont enjoy that.

[zealex.9410]

@Magnus Godrik.5841 said:This nothing compared to sigil of mischief and snowfall runes, which you need 50 of each, just for a shoulder piece. Take that.

The items needed for winter's presence always spike during the winter period.

[gateless gate.8406]

What's the issue? That it's expensive? So are many things in the game. You're not entitled to cosmetic armor skins.

[Ayakaru.6583]

What issue?A full set only costs 25 sigils, just play actively for 25 days and you’re donePalawadanmeta nets a lot of gold daily

[Astralporing.1957]

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@LucianDK.8615 said:You can be certain the TP barons is twitching to rush through the next episode to find that the next hot crafting material will be for the new weapons.

I wonder who would profit the most from a new cheap sigil/resource which spikes in value, is it players who are stripped for cash who hope to become instant rich or is it players who are already insanely loaded?It is always the second group. The first never has enough gold you need to frontload in it for the investment to pay handsomely. A TP baron can afford to spend 500 g in hopes of massive gain. Poor players neither have that much (because they are, you know, poor) nor do they have enough of understanding of the market to notice immediately that this is something that is going to bring profit.

So, as always, the rich get richer, the rest end up paying for it.

[Cyninja.2954]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@LucianDK.8615 said:You can be certain the TP barons is twitching to rush through the next episode to find that the next hot crafting material will be for the new weapons.

I wonder who would profit the most from a new cheap sigil/resource which spikes in value, is it players who are stripped for cash who hope to become instant rich or is it players who are already insanely loaded?It is always the second group. The first never has enough gold you need to frontload in it for the investment to pay handsomely. A TP baron can afford to spend 500 g in hopes of massive gain. Poor players neither have that much (because they are, you know, poor) nor do they have enough of understanding of the market to notice immediately that this is something that is going to bring profit.

So, as always, the rich get richer, the rest end up paying for it.

True, but I would not consider a player who can afford 500-1000 gold a TP baron. There is a ton of normal players with thousands of gold without actively manipulating or working the TP.

I do agree though that players with less interest or understanding of how to manage their ingame wealth might be disadvantaged.

[Astralporing.1957]

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@LucianDK.8615 said:You can be certain the TP barons is twitching to rush through the next episode to find that the next hot crafting material will be for the new weapons.

I wonder who would profit the most from a new cheap sigil/resource which spikes in value, is it players who are stripped for cash who hope to become instant rich or is it players who are already insanely loaded?It is always the second group. The first never has enough gold you need to frontload in it for the investment to pay handsomely. A TP baron can afford to spend 500 g in hopes of massive gain. Poor players neither have that much (because they are, you know, poor) nor do they have enough of understanding of the market to notice immediately that this is something that is going to bring profit.

So, as always, the rich get richer, the rest end up paying for it.

True, but I would not consider a player who can afford 500-1000 gold a TP baron. There is a ton of normal players with thousands of gold without actively manipulating or working the TP.Normal players able and willing to risk that amount of money to buy off a whole TP supply of a single mat in hope of profit? Without a lot of time to decide (remember, it happened in less than an hour from patch - by that time most players, even those that started right after patch, still didn't know the recipe yet)?No, i don't think there's a ton of those.

[Cyninja.2954]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@LucianDK.8615 said:You can be certain the TP barons is twitching to rush through the next episode to find that the next hot crafting material will be for the new weapons.

I wonder who would profit the most from a new cheap sigil/resource which spikes in value, is it players who are stripped for cash who hope to become instant rich or is it players who are already insanely loaded?It is always the second group. The first never has enough gold you need to frontload in it for the investment to pay handsomely. A TP baron can afford to spend 500 g in hopes of massive gain. Poor players neither have that much (because they are, you know, poor) nor do they have enough of understanding of the market to notice immediately that this is something that is going to bring profit.

So, as always, the rich get richer, the rest end up paying for it.

True, but I would not consider a player who can afford 500-1000 gold a TP baron. There is a ton of normal players with thousands of gold without actively manipulating or working the TP.Normal players able and willing to risk that amount of money to buy off a whole TP supply of a single mat in hope of profit? Without a lot of time to decide (remember, it happened in less than an hour from patch - by that time most players, even those that started right after patch, still didn't know the recipe yet)?No, i don't think there's a ton of those.

Enough that is doesn't necessary have to be TP barons. Even if some players just bought 10-50 gold worth, we are talking 750 gold total at release of the patch, that is nothing.

[Magnus Godrik.5841]

@zealex.9410 said:

@Magnus Godrik.5841 said:This nothing compared to sigil of mischief and snowfall runes, which you need 50 of each, just for a shoulder piece. Take that.

The items needed for winter's presence always spike during the winter period.

Actually they dropped in price and will go back up in a few months. And will stay that way until next wintersday when the vicious cycle starts again.

[Odinens.5920]

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@"Odinens.5920" said:Not sure why people keep defending this sigil/rune change when it's clearly negatively affected a whole lot of people.

1. drops rates for motes/symbols/etc are way too low. More people agree with this than don't.

Sure, a lot of people would also want legendäres for 1 gold, doesn't make them right or correct from am economic perspective.

Nobody is asking for 1g legendaries or even drop rates so high that it floods the market, but you go right ahead and defend the current drop rates like it's a normal thing. Us people that actually realize it's not ok will continue to criticize

2. as such, it's still faster and easier to use the level up method to obtain ONE sigil. May as well not even have the crafting option, since it clearly hasn't changed ANYthing with regards to this collection.

It's an OPTION, people demanded an option to the TP. The option does not mean it is free of charge.

You say option, that people demanded? I already said it's an OPTION that not very many people are even choosing because it's not worth it. Thus not changing or fixing anything with regard to the collection.

3. on the off chance you get a weapon drop with a null sigil in it (or any rune/sigil for that matter) guess what - if you want to keep that sigil you now have to pay real money to keep it, because the only 2 ways to get it are either an extraction tool or a BL salvage kit, both of which are only obtainable thru the gem store....that's a scam in my book.

Sell the exotic, buy the sigil. Problem solved.

Tell me again what salvage tools are for? Sorry, but what they have done with regard to being able to salvage runes/sigils is a shady business practice. You can defend it if you like, but until they make salvage tools do what they used to this will STILL be a shady business practice.

[Cyninja.2954]

@Odinens.5920 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Odinens.5920 said:Not sure why people keep defending this sigil/rune change when it's clearly negatively affected a whole lot of people.

1. drops rates for motes/symbols/etc are way too low. More people agree with this than don't.

Sure, a lot of people would also want legendäres for 1 gold, doesn't make them right or correct from am economic perspective.

Nobody is asking for 1g legendaries or even drop rates so high that it floods the market, but you go right ahead and defend the current drop rates like it's a normal thing. Us people that actually realize it's not ok will continue to criticize

yet here you are, criticizing value and gold cost. I was obviously exaggerating to make a point. Same how you are exaggerating about how the end will come if these changes remain (hint: it will not).

@Odinens.5920 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Odinens.5920 said:

2. as such, it's still faster and easier to use the level up method to obtain ONE sigil. May as well not even have the crafting option, since it clearly hasn't changed ANYthing with regards to this collection.

It's an OPTION, people demanded an option to the TP. The option does not mean it is free of charge.

You say option, that people demanded? I already said it's an OPTION that not very many people are even choosing because it's not worth it. Thus not changing or fixing anything with regard to the collection.

People complained about the rng nature, similar as precursor crafting. A non rng self-craft method was added. All you see is once again the cost. No one said the cost would drop. It's defined by supply and demand which meets at the TP listing price.

@Odinens.5920 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Odinens.5920 said:

3. on the off chance you get a weapon drop with a null sigil in it (or any rune/sigil for that matter) guess what - if you want to keep that sigil you now have to pay real money to keep it, because the only 2 ways to get it are either an extraction tool or a BL salvage kit, both of which are only obtainable thru the gem store....that's a scam in my book.

Sell the exotic, buy the sigil. Problem solved.

Tell me again what salvage tools are for? Sorry, but what they have done with regard to being able to salvage runes/sigils is a shady business practice. You can defend it if you like, but until they make salvage tools do what they used to this will STILL be a shady business practice.

I gave you a solution to your dilemma.

Salvage tools do exactly what they state. You can disagree with them and how they work. Doesn't change the fact that if you get a Sigil or Rune you want in an exotic, you can sell the exotic which will be at near market value of the rune/sigil and buy the rune/sigil thus circumventing both the rng nature of the salvage tool as well as more expensive extractors.

[TokenG.7863]

Seems like to me a simple solution that may help the dilemma is to change the recipes for minor/major runes and sigils to stop requiring the symbols and charms to craft them. That way when you have an abundance of lucent motes, you can burn them off and create minor/major sigils to sell or salvage to try and get symbols and charms to create the superior versions. It would also favor new players who may want to craft or buy minor/major sigils to put on gear without having to spend an inflated price on the TP.

[Astralporing.1957]

@TokenG.7863 said:Seems like to me a simple solution that may help the dilemma is to change the recipes for minor/major runes and sigils to stop requiring the symbols and charms to craft them. That way when you have an abundance of lucent motes, you can burn them off and create minor/major sigils to sell or salvage to try and get symbols and charms to create the superior versions. It would also favor new players who may want to craft or buy minor/major sigils to put on gear without having to spend an inflated price on the TP.Well, yeah, that's one thing not many people notice - the change practically killed minor/major runes/sigils. Sure, there's still a lot of them on the market, but there won't be more. Nobody's going to use black lions on rare/green gear after all, and the cost of crafting is so high almost noone will be getting them that way as well.

[Odinens.5920]

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Odinens.5920 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Odinens.5920 said:Not sure why people keep defending this sigil/rune change when it's clearly negatively affected a whole lot of people.

1. drops rates for motes/symbols/etc are way too low. More people agree with this than don't.

Sure, a lot of people would also want legendäres for 1 gold, doesn't make them right or correct from am economic perspective.

Nobody is asking for 1g legendaries or even drop rates so high that it floods the market, but you go right ahead and defend the current drop rates like it's a normal thing. Us people that actually realize it's not ok will continue to criticize

yet here you are, criticizing value and gold cost. I was obviously exaggerating to make a point. Same how you are exaggerating about how the end will come if these changes remain (hint: it will not).

Please, do show me where I mentioned cost or "the end" in my statement.

@Odinens.5920 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Odinens.5920 said:

2. as such, it's still faster and easier to use the level up method to obtain ONE sigil. May as well not even have the crafting option, since it clearly hasn't changed ANYthing with regards to this collection.

It's an OPTION, people demanded an option to the TP. The option does not mean it is free of charge.

You say option, that people demanded? I already said it's an OPTION that not very many people are even choosing because it's not worth it. Thus not changing or fixing anything with regard to the collection.

People complained about the rng nature, similar as precursor crafting. A non rng self-craft method was added. All you see is once again the cost. No one said the cost would drop. It's defined by supply and demand which meets at the TP listing price.

Again, please show me where I mentioned cost in my Statement. If you had read earlier "worth it" in this case was referring to the time it takes to craft 1 sigil as opposed to leveling up a new character and getting the sigil that way.

@Odinens.5920 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Odinens.5920 said:

3. on the off chance you get a weapon drop with a null sigil in it (or any rune/sigil for that matter) guess what - if you want to keep that sigil you now have to pay real money to keep it, because the only 2 ways to get it are either an extraction tool or a BL salvage kit, both of which are only obtainable thru the gem store....that's a scam in my book.

Sell the exotic, buy the sigil. Problem solved.

Tell me again what salvage tools are for? Sorry, but what they have done with regard to being able to salvage runes/sigils is a shady business practice. You can defend it if you like, but until they make salvage tools do what they used to this will STILL be a shady business practice.

I gave you a solution to your dilemma.

Salvage tools do exactly what they state. You can disagree with them and how they work. Doesn't change the fact that if you get a Sigil or Rune you want in an exotic, you can sell the exotic which will be at near market value of the rune/sigil and buy the rune/sigil thus circumventing both the rng nature of the salvage tool as well as more expensive extractors.

My previous statement still stands. It's a shady business practice. You can go ahead and keep defending it if you'd like. People wanted the ability to salvage runes/sigils, and to craft them. Nobody asked for auto-salvaging direct from gear and having NO chance whatsoever of keeping a rune or sigil if they so desired, and on top of that making the only way TO keep them is gem store items.

shady is shady