[Suggestion] Rework the "tutorial" personal story.

[Zappax.4685]

I'm not saying, to change the story as a whole, but how its played out. Many now players are struggling to realize, what that blue bar is under some mobs. When they get told, you need to CC them, without further explanation, they're not closer either. CC is a foreign term for them. Newcomers could learn the mechanics better. Not the hardcore raid mechanics, but ones that are frequent even on vanilla maps. A slightly reworked personal story could be so much more than just a key farm for the veterans. With a more interactive story instance newcomers would feel more excited, since the current ones are pretty bland.What do you think?

[derd.6413]

i thought they were working on a tutorial

[Plautze.6290]

Second this. Being yelled at 'CC! CC!!!' and not knowing what the kitten is going on is bad, very bad.Even worse is fighting a champ and being the only one unloading their CC skills only to see the last tiny bit if defiance still standing...

[Danikat.8537]

Personally I'd prefer a separate tutorial to working it into the personal story, but that may just be me. I'd much prefer a direct, out of character "this is how mechanic A works, here's an opportunity to practice it" "This is mechanic B, here's how it works" etc. and then a story that focuses on well, story. Merging the two often leads to slow, convoluted tutorials with awkward descriptions as they try to keep it in-universe while mentioning menus, settings etc. and a very forced, slow story too. Plus if it was separate it could be something we can repeat whenever we want, so if you want a refresher on a mechanic, or if it's changed at some point (like when defiance bars were introduced) you can practice it again.

Until we get something better built into the game however a 'quick fix' for the CC issue is any time you're doing an event where people need to use CC effectively you explain it. Instead of just the commander typing "CC" or "no CC" into chat periodically someone (and it can be anyone) can say "CC = crowd control - skills which disable the boss like stun, daze, knockback". Even better if someone can explain it to the group before the event starts so you're not hoping people sit reading map chat in the middle of the fight.

[Zappax.4685]

@"Danikat.8537" said:Personally I'd prefer a separate tutorial to working it into the personal story, but that may just be me. I'd much prefer a direct, out of character "this is how mechanic A works, here's an opportunity to practice it" "This is mechanic B, here's how it works" etc. and then a story that focuses on well, story. Merging the two often leads to slow, convoluted tutorials with awkward descriptions as they try to keep it in-universe while mentioning menus, settings etc. and a very forced, slow story too. Plus if it was separate it could be something we can repeat whenever we want, so if you want a refresher on a mechanic, or if it's changed at some point (like when defiance bars were introduced) you can practice it again.

Until we get something better built into the game however a 'quick fix' for the CC issue is any time you're doing an event where people need to use CC effectively you explain it. Instead of just the commander typing "CC" or "no CC" into chat periodically someone (and it can be anyone) can say "CC = crowd control - skills which disable the boss like stun, daze, knockback". Even better if someone can explain it to the group before the event starts so you're not hoping people sit reading map chat in the middle of the fight.

Problem with a separate tutorial is that it really breaks the immersion. For a lot of players that a deal breaker. There are a lot of examples on how tutorials and stories got intertwined perfectly in single player games.Explaining cc in map chat on meta has one problem. Majority of players wont even read it. Or even if they do, they just ignore it.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

Does the dodge 'tutorial' break immersion in the starter zones? Do any of the tutorial messages in-game?Maybe some instructions in how such a thing works on/in a Renown Heart, either repeatable or not. Or those instructions that show up on the upper-right UI during an event.

Probably something like the dodge tutorial would work best, as one must successfully use the mechanic to get the reward.

[Zappax.4685]

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:Does the dodge 'tutorial' break immersion in the starter zones? Do any of the tutorial messages in-game?Maybe some instructions in how such a thing works on/in a Renown Heart, either repeatable or not. Or those instructions that show up on the upper-right UI during an event.

Probably something like the dodge tutorial would work best, as one must successfully use the mechanic to get the reward.

Well the dodge tutorial does really feel out of place... Sure some minor messages like the trait and utility skill ones are fine.

[Dadnir.5038]

I might be wrong but a lot of players that start at this point of the game tend to skip the personnal story and rush to the extension, especially players whose main interest are raid content. This is something that you see in a lot of games that already have a few years behind them and is enforced by cashshops that sell "level boosters". Players that come to the game only for the end game content also often don't want to have anything to do with personnal story or open PvE grinding/exploration.

The issue with the idea is that the only personal "tutorial" story is the first one and at this point of the game no character have access to any kind of CC. You could say that they can put a few rock all around the boss fight so that they may be picked and throwed to the boss to break the bar. However, would that really be enough to make those players understand that they need to use their own skills that apply CC each time they see a blue bar on a mob or will they look around for a rock on the floor?

[Ayrilana.1396]

They just need to bring back those help tooltips.

Or have a training arena to test various mechanics such as that. The whole “immersion” thing is just something players throw around as they want something a specific way. “Immersion” itself is subjective and will vary from person to person.

[Danikat.8537]

@Zappax.4685 said:

@"Danikat.8537" said:Personally I'd prefer a separate tutorial to working it into the personal story, but that may just be me. I'd much prefer a direct, out of character "this is how mechanic A works, here's an opportunity to practice it" "This is mechanic B, here's how it works" etc. and then a story that focuses on well, story. Merging the two often leads to slow, convoluted tutorials with awkward descriptions as they try to keep it in-universe while mentioning menus, settings etc. and a very forced, slow story too. Plus if it was separate it could be something we can repeat whenever we want, so if you want a refresher on a mechanic, or if it's changed at some point (like when defiance bars were introduced) you can practice it again.

Until we get something better built into the game however a 'quick fix' for the CC issue is any time you're doing an event where people need to use CC effectively you explain it. Instead of just the commander typing "CC" or "no CC" into chat periodically someone (and it can be anyone) can say "CC = crowd control - skills which disable the boss like stun, daze, knockback". Even better if someone can explain it to the group before the event starts so you're not hoping people sit reading map chat in the middle of the fight.

Problem with a separate tutorial is that it really breaks the immersion. For a lot of players that a deal breaker. There are a lot of examples on how tutorials and stories got intertwined perfectly in single player games.Explaining cc in map chat on meta has one problem. Majority of players wont even read it. Or even if they do, they just ignore it.

Like I said I think it's a personal preference. I've played a lot of single-player RPGs with story tutorials and I've never seen it done "perfectly". Some are less jarring than others, but they tend to be vague on the details to accommodate that, which makes it less useful as a tutorial. Sci-fi games are slightly better than fantasy as at least they can write in an excuse for a character having an on-screen display and therefore refer to it, but that doesn't help GW2.

I'd rather have a clear break in immersion for a practical tutorial (a bit like when you save the game or change the settings - it's rarely worked into the game play and it's accepted as a practical necessity) than a clunky tutorial which is light on details so it can be written using in-universe language and also a clunky out of place story segment where you get a bit into the action then stop for a training session.

Maybe it could be built into the Special Forces Training Area. We're already part-way there with golems that can be set to use different mechanics (including break bars) and the ability to apply different buffs, conditions etc. and have the game report on what you're doing. It just needs to be expanded with more options to explain each mechanic so players can learn about it in-game. And then of course a way to point players towards it as a place to learn combat.

[IndigoSundown.5419]

Perhaps it's just me, but I find the current "pointers" to game mechanics (dodge tutorial, flashing UI icons like traits, and the "use your heal" pointer) to be distracting. If such things, and more, are really necessary, they should be put in with an opt-out choice so I don't have to see them. That said, there is a lot to be said for a separate tutorial instance such as ESO's, which can be skipped after you've done it once.

[Kal Spiro.9745]

This sort of exists. It's in Queensdale, in the village in the far SouthWest. There are a couple stations where you learn how to block, and shoot, and knock down. If they updated the knockdown one to include a breakbar, there is your CC tutorial.

[Pifil.5193]

The problem with this is that at the start of the personal story you have, what, a heal skill, an auto attack weapon skill and... nothing else. You don't have any access to CC skills so you can't break a Defiance Bar.

It's too early for that kind of tutorial, even if you gave people rocks or other environmental weapons to break the Defiance Bar it'd be a bad tutorial because people wouldn't be able to use the skills they just learned for a dozen levels or more.

I'd prefer they just added Defiance Bar damage floaters for feedback so people could know if they were doing good or bad damage to Defiance Bars and added a pop-up tutorial to explain Defiance Bars the next time you targeted a mob with a Defiance Bar in game.

[Khisanth.2948]

I remember GW1 having that requirement for one of the ranger quests. It did not end well and they eventually changed it and it was somewhere around Yak's Bend so not complete newbies either. I do not believe the GW2 playerbase is any better.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

The devs have said (and I agree) that the tutorial is the worst time to teach advanced or even intermediate mechanics. A lot of people come to GW2 without MMO experience, without RPG experience, and sometimes without having played other games. The experience is designed to slowly introduce parts of the game. It's slow for some of us and, it turns out (to my surprise) that it's still too fast for some.

What I'd rather see are optional story instances that teach end game mechanics, tips, and strategies. No "pop up" descriptions, but something that requires you to use the new mechanics to move forward.

For example, say a corridor with 5 gates. The first opens with CC done quickly enough and the mini-boss behind can't be defeated without CC. The second is vulnerable to conditions only, and its micro-boss can't be hurt by power alone. Likewise for AoE and for combo fields. And finally, in the last room, a boss with multiple phases, each of which uses the techniques learned getting there. This would be repeatable as often as you like, with a timer to see if you get better. And you could do it with any/all profs.

Similarly, there could be tutorials for using the TP, using LFG, introducing the wiki, helping with fashion (so many subpanels now), and so on.

Done well, this is probably every bit as much work as LS4.4 was, so I'm not in the least surprised they haven't done it yet.

Although, I would hope they would figure out a way to introduce this iteratively, e.g. introducing the corridor room above, but just the first boss. See how people like it and then add the next room 2-3 episodes later.

[Yamazuki.6073]

Tutorials don't really work well. Most people skip them when optional, or rush through and ignore everything when forced to do them. People have to be willing to learn.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

@Yamazuki.6073 said:Tutorials don't really work well. Most people skip them when optional, or rush through and ignore everything when forced to do them. People have to be willing to learn.

There are plenty of people willing to learn, some of whom would do a tutorial. (And sure, plenty who aren't willing to learn or don't know they should, and some who say they want to learn, but won't do a tutorial. There's not much ANet could do about them, while there's plenty that they could do to help the first group.)

[Westenev.5289]

PoF and HoT both contain "entry" levels, which basically set up the story. Perhaps this might be a good place to add breakbar tutorials due to the through traffic?

[DaFishBob.6518]

Ah defiance bars, as far as I know, there's only one area where the game mentions how to break defiance bars: the skritt in the Burning Grotto of Ember Bay during a dynamic event to free trapped skritt. Really.