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Thieves ruin WvW


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So im a thief Main and i can Say, i got no idea how to fight against it sometimes.S/p is evade Fiesta, Best weakness i found was static aura, but its hard to punish it at all.D/d is a meme, just pew pew it.De has 2 counters, it would be reveal and good chasing potential- s/s herald is the Best.Vault thief has 1 Main weakness - animation lock at the end of the vault - Best countered by other thief or any insta cc. The Main issue i See here is that vault looks almost exactly as bound, often i got no idea whats happening atm. Also vault could get 1 or 2 s icd.D/p thief are kinda fun. Just dont randomly spam ur skills,and predict backstabs - its managableOverall none of thief builds are fun to play against becouse thief can ALMOST always reset if Shadow step is up (i was always surprised how broken that skill is), and becouse thief has so many fast/instant attacks, which make it hard to react properly.But do i think thief is broken? Nah. Not if u look at what other classes can do.

PS, if u struggle with thief, just play guard - they eat them. And range, thief struggle with ranged dmg

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@"Jugglemonkey.8741" said:Out of interest, what did people think of staff thief? Or S/P daredevil? I'm wondering if the stealth less builds get the same level of frustration out of people or not.

I'll take fighting a Stealth camping DE or D/P Thief any day over a Staff + D/P Daredevil.

I agree with many that Stealth is a poorly designed mechanic but due to exposure and familiarity, I don't have a problem with it even if it is objectively bad. There are times it can be frustrating when someone is just lurking around to 1 shot spike you, but in terms of actual small scale or 1 v 1's, I don't have an issue with it. There are ways to fight it and most who abuse it are using gimmick builds that will only work if you're unprepared. Staff + D/P Thieves on the other hand have a lot utilities to deal with a variety of situations and are very good "bruiser" types that can be difficult to wear down. In my opinion, evade spam is significantly more annoying than Stealth spam.

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@Gondolph.7201 said:currently there is a increasing use of thieves in WvW. The tactics is usually the following: 3 thieves are in the (enemies) castle. We tried as a zerg to kill them, but you need approx. 20 min sometimes tro get 2 of them. The stealth disruption trap is almost useless now, since the death-eye is visible for approx. 2-3 sec now. They are almost permanent invisible anyway.So if the zerg does not want to run for hours behind phantoms, the leader finally decides to ignore thieves. and go for fights then. 10 minutes later the castle is fallen. Half of the game mechanics renders obsolete, there is no point anymore in nurturing castles to higher levels, unless the full zerg remains in it.

that is no fun anymore.

Shadow Portal and Stealth stacking are absurd game mechanics.

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@Burnfall.9573 said:

Those people in the clips... they even ignore the de and mine nodes lel, whilst others actually see it approaching and still ignore it. The de is just bottom feeding on the lower ranks and easy kills, nothing really to see here, you could kill those guys easily on any other class really tbh. I'm actually shocked at some of those players - the de even runs up close before even bothering to stealth on some of them. These are just bad players and pretty much why they are used in the clip.

they are always 'bad players' the usual

(what i find interesting, Thief Profession players even uses the word Toxicity as a meme' in their game play and even attach it to their name to describe how Broken and Toxic Thief Profession is and yet you say otherwise)

-i encourage you to ask these Thief Profession players in the videos of how 'bad' those players are....dying to Toxic Bad Design- i can even provide additional Thief Profession players if needed.....as many as you want. They also know Thief Profession mechanics inside-out without any B.S

actually here is one as a start- soon to be the next meta in line

And again you mislead people by showing them only what is beneficial to you. You say that the Arena does nothing to thieves and allows this style of play to exist with impunity from the beginning of the centuries. This video is from September 3, 2019. But the Anet reacted and this build was badly nerfed after 1 month with hotfixes and new patch. Like the rest of the condi builds due to changes in the Deadly Arts. Which by the standards of Anet is pretty fast. And with the new patch will be nerfed even more.And in this video there are no one-shots, no permastealth. It's just rifle 2 skill spam.But of course you do not want to tell about this. Since this is contrary to your statements.All classes in the game have toxic braindead builds.

You say contrary? you did not bother to read my post and why i even posted that video to begin with. It is quite understandable why you are quick to defend Thief Profession without giving yourself a chance to see what the other person have to say.

-Anet has a business to maintain and are given choices to promote healthy competition to players who are ready to defend it-

I have nothing more to say to you

Ive recreated this build roughly 2 months ago and while it has many weaknesses (projectile hate/cleanses/resistance/immunity to immob...etc) this build still needs a nerfing imo

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@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:

Those people in the clips... they even ignore the de and mine nodes lel, whilst others actually see it approaching and still ignore it. The de is just bottom feeding on the lower ranks and easy kills, nothing really to see here, you could kill those guys easily on any other class really tbh. I'm actually shocked at some of those players - the de even runs up close before even bothering to stealth on some of them. These are just bad players and pretty much why they are used in the clip.

they are always 'bad players' the usual

(what i find interesting, Thief Profession players even uses the word Toxicity as a meme' in their game play and even attach it to their name to describe how Broken and Toxic Thief Profession is and yet you say otherwise)

-i encourage you to ask these Thief Profession players in the videos of how 'bad' those players are....dying to Toxic Bad Design- i can even provide additional Thief Profession players if needed.....as many as you want. They also know Thief Profession mechanics inside-out without any B.S

actually here is one as a start- soon to be the next meta in line

And again you mislead people by showing them only what is beneficial to you. You say that the Arena does nothing to thieves and allows this style of play to exist with impunity from the beginning of the centuries. This video is from September 3, 2019. But the Anet reacted and this build was badly nerfed after 1 month with hotfixes and new patch. Like the rest of the condi builds due to changes in the Deadly Arts. Which by the standards of Anet is pretty fast. And with the new patch will be nerfed even more.And in this video there are no one-shots, no permastealth. It's just rifle 2 skill spam.But of course you do not want to tell about this. Since this is contrary to your statements.All classes in the game have toxic braindead builds.

You say contrary? you did not bother to read my post and why i even posted that video to begin with. It is quite understandable why you are quick to defend Thief Profession without giving yourself a chance to see what the other person have to say.

-Anet has a business to maintain and are given choices to promote healthy competition to players who are ready to defend it-

I have nothing more to say to you

Ive recreated this build roughly 2 months ago and while it has many weaknesses (projectile hate/cleanses/resistance/immunity to immob...etc) this build still needs a nerfing imo

It has been nerfed today.Panic Strike: Reduced poison duration from 2 seconds to 1 second.Potent Poison: Reduced bonus poison duration from 20% to 5%.

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@Dzheen.5291 said:

Those people in the clips... they even ignore the de and mine nodes lel, whilst others actually see it approaching and still ignore it. The de is just bottom feeding on the lower ranks and easy kills, nothing really to see here, you could kill those guys easily on any other class really tbh. I'm actually shocked at some of those players - the de even runs up close before even bothering to stealth on some of them. These are just bad players and pretty much why they are used in the clip.

they are always 'bad players' the usual

(what i find interesting, Thief Profession players even uses the word Toxicity as a meme' in their game play and even attach it to their name to describe how Broken and Toxic Thief Profession is and yet you say otherwise)

-i encourage you to ask these Thief Profession players in the videos of how 'bad' those players are....dying to Toxic Bad Design- i can even provide additional Thief Profession players if needed.....as many as you want. They also know Thief Profession mechanics inside-out without any B.S

actually here is one as a start- soon to be the next meta in line

And again you mislead people by showing them only what is beneficial to you. You say that the Arena does nothing to thieves and allows this style of play to exist with impunity from the beginning of the centuries. This video is from September 3, 2019. But the Anet reacted and this build was badly nerfed after 1 month with hotfixes and new patch. Like the rest of the condi builds due to changes in the Deadly Arts. Which by the standards of Anet is pretty fast. And with the new patch will be nerfed even more.And in this video there are no one-shots, no permastealth. It's just rifle 2 skill spam.But of course you do not want to tell about this. Since this is contrary to your statements.All classes in the game have toxic braindead builds.

You say contrary? you did not bother to read my post and why i even posted that video to begin with. It is quite understandable why you are quick to defend Thief Profession without giving yourself a chance to see what the other person have to say.

-Anet has a business to maintain and are given choices to promote healthy competition to players who are ready to defend it-

I have nothing more to say to you

Ive recreated this build roughly 2 months ago and while it has many weaknesses (projectile hate/cleanses/resistance/immunity to immob...etc) this build still needs a nerfing imo

It has been nerfed today.Panic Strike: Reduced poison duration from 2 seconds to 1 second.Potent Poison: Reduced bonus poison duration from 20% to 5%.

Used it post patch and it def wasnt enough. Just takes a tad longer to do its thing.

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Stealth for DE Thieves is not the problem, if you remove or nerf their primary core mechanic to sht, you'd have to take in account Scrappers and Mesmers, who, gasp! Also have stealth! Changing stealth for only Thieves would require a huge rework from the ground up, something they're not gonna do for one gamemode. There's plenty of times where DE Thieves can and WILL eat sht, Heralds, Spellbreakers, and depending on how squishy they are in full Berserkers , you can easily shut down a Thief if you have enough awareness and know what you're doing.

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@Imperious.4298 said:Stealth for DE Thieves is not the problem, if you remove or nerf their primary core mechanic to kitten, you'd have to take in account Scrappers and Mesmers, who, gasp! Also have stealth! Changing stealth for only Thieves would require a huge rework from the ground up, something they're not gonna do for one gamemode. There's plenty of times where DE Thieves can and WILL eat kitten, Heralds, Spellbreakers, and depending on how squishy they are in full Berserkers , you can easily shut down a Thief if you have enough awareness and know what you're doing.

I have noticed an increase of Daredevil perma stealth theives which is already terrible.

Out of stealth?Evade all the time.Then stealth and bomb.Repeat...

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@geist.4126 said:And Vault damage still needs a massive nerf. 30% would be a good start. Even on full toughness you get 7k from that. Now think how broken this was before. Err i mean how much you had to l2p before when fighting a dd.

In zerg fight I could land 15k vaults, on squishy targets that have vulnerability stacks and I had might, with assassins signet popped. That is a lot of dmg for sure but at least they are melee and quite often you're blinded/cc anyway.But you get revs using 6k hammer bolts or 8k+ from that other skill (not cor) from 1200 range and inside a zerg, not to mention 1 hammer attack evades and clears Mark's

7k on 3500 armour you say? Seems about right tbh

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@Svarty.8019 said:Everything about thief is bad. Where on earth would Arenanet begin the process of balancing it? I suppose removing stealth from the game would be FIRST!

If the game is too hard for you you could try some mobile games, maybe something with autoplay would be a good fit, don't have to work to counter anything.

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@kash.9213 said:

@Svarty.8019 said:Everything about thief is bad. Where on earth would Arenanet begin the process of balancing it? I suppose removing stealth from the game would be FIRST!

If the game is too hard for you you could try some mobile games, maybe something with autoplay would be a good fit, don't have to work to counter anything.

what is the counter of stealth?playing class without detection :/and i cant see overlords or overseer flying over me.. and i dont have a scan or a mobile turret. :(

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@bluberblasen.9684 said:

@Svarty.8019 said:Everything about thief is bad. Where on earth would Arenanet begin the process of balancing it? I suppose removing stealth from the game would be FIRST!

If the game is too hard for you you could try some mobile games, maybe something with autoplay would be a good fit, don't have to work to counter anything.

what is the counter of stealth?playing class without detection :/and i cant see overlords or overseer flying over me.. and i dont have a scan or a mobile turret. :(

Then hide in spawn or log off if you can't. Or try some more emojis.

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Yeah people got their wish so pretty much anyone who played thief is pretty much done with wvw except for maybe reset night but that is even hard to swallow now too its just condi spamming. So anything that used stealth or cc is now absolutely useless I mean if they didn't look like they were sabotaging their game before this is just an all out nuke. I mean so bad between pve and wvw its like you aren't even playing the same class between them so I think its just time to put an end to both see ya anet spend my time and money somewhere else.

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Thief builds are becoming more and more toxic. Years ago vault thief would made people to laugh at you, yet now people are using it. And now the same with sword pistol.

Last night showed several condi thief builds, including poison perma stealth rifle deadeye which can remove revealed so even if you have a detection skill it is useless.

Thief is becoming toxic and really cheesy. But why? Because therr is no other room left for thieves to breathe. Random nerfs and op specs forced their hands to find something useful, and when they did, nobody liked that.

Like every other profession, thief is a direct result of the entire game balance. Better not forget that.

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That's not just thieves. Soulbeast too because this shit was and is still just busted, overall I'd dare as far as to say every class got their damage gutted except for this shit And then there is still Condi Mirage ohoho...good luck catching that one before it suffocates you to death. Disgusting, boring and too slow.
Theives became more absurd because less damage means more room for mistakes and some good/semi-good thieves make zero to no mistakes playing that class.

The only question is how much time would it take for Anet to balance out everything? I have no clue and I don't really want to bother.

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@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:

Those people in the clips... they even ignore the de and mine nodes lel, whilst others actually see it approaching and still ignore it. The de is just bottom feeding on the lower ranks and easy kills, nothing really to see here, you could kill those guys easily on any other class really tbh. I'm actually shocked at some of those players - the de even runs up close before even bothering to stealth on some of them. These are just bad players and pretty much why they are used in the clip.

they are always 'bad players' the usual

(what i find interesting, Thief Profession players even uses the word Toxicity as a meme' in their game play and even attach it to their name to describe how Broken and Toxic Thief Profession is and yet you say otherwise)

-i encourage you to ask these Thief Profession players in the videos of how 'bad' those players are....dying to Toxic Bad Design- i can even provide additional Thief Profession players if needed.....as many as you want. They also know Thief Profession mechanics inside-out without any B.S

actually here is one as a start- soon to be the next meta in line

And again you mislead people by showing them only what is beneficial to you. You say that the Arena does nothing to thieves and allows this style of play to exist with impunity from the beginning of the centuries. This video is from September 3, 2019. But the Anet reacted and this build was badly nerfed after 1 month with hotfixes and new patch. Like the rest of the condi builds due to changes in the Deadly Arts. Which by the standards of Anet is pretty fast. And with the new patch will be nerfed even more.And in this video there are no one-shots, no permastealth. It's just rifle 2 skill spam.But of course you do not want to tell about this. Since this is contrary to your statements.All classes in the game have toxic braindead builds.

You say contrary? you did not bother to read my post and why i even posted that video to begin with. It is quite understandable why you are quick to defend Thief Profession without giving yourself a chance to see what the other person have to say.

-Anet has a business to maintain and are given choices to promote healthy competition to players who are ready to defend it-

I have nothing more to say to you

Ive recreated this build roughly 2 months ago and while it has many weaknesses (projectile hate/cleanses/resistance/immunity to immob...etc) this build still needs a nerfing imo

It has been nerfed today.Panic Strike: Reduced poison duration from 2 seconds to 1 second.Potent Poison: Reduced bonus poison duration from 20% to 5%.

Used it post patch and it def wasnt enough. Just takes a tad longer to do its thing.

Can confirm. Out of the builds I use, my condi build is the only one that needed no changes post patch.

Honestly tho, I don't have a problem playing condi if the encounters I get favour it. If every other class cheeses it, why shouldn't thief?

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@kash.9213 said:

@Svarty.8019 said:Everything about thief is bad. Where on earth would Arenanet begin the process of balancing it? I suppose removing stealth from the game would be FIRST!

If the game is too hard for you you could try some mobile games, maybe something with autoplay would be a good fit, don't have to work to counter anything.

what is the counter of stealth?playing class without detection :/and i cant see overlords or overseer flying over me.. and i dont have a scan or a mobile turret. :(

Then hide in spawn or log off if you can't. Or try some more emojis.

I ask you again.What is the counter to stealth? When you dont have detection on your class.

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@bluberblasen.9684 said:

@"Svarty.8019" said:Everything about thief is bad. Where on earth would Arenanet begin the process of balancing it? I suppose removing stealth from the game would be FIRST!

If the game is too hard for you you could try some mobile games, maybe something with autoplay would be a good fit, don't have to work to counter anything.

what is the counter of stealth?playing class without detection :/and i cant see overlords or overseer flying over me.. and i dont have a scan or a mobile turret. :(

Then hide in spawn or log off if you can't. Or try some more emojis.

I ask you again.What is the counter to stealth? When you dont have detection on your class.

Stealth is (can be) permanent but detection isn't. Even if you have stealth detection you can't beat it. Even if you do have stealth detection it doesn't stop the rest of the insane "everything" toolkit.

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@bluberblasen.9684 said:

@Svarty.8019 said:Everything about thief is bad. Where on earth would Arenanet begin the process of balancing it? I suppose removing stealth from the game would be FIRST!

If the game is too hard for you you could try some mobile games, maybe something with autoplay would be a good fit, don't have to work to counter anything.

what is the counter of stealth?playing class without detection :/and i cant see overlords or overseer flying over me.. and i dont have a scan or a mobile turret. :(

Then hide in spawn or log off if you can't. Or try some more emojis.

I ask you again.What is the counter to stealth? When you dont have detection on your class.

Cleave, AoE and Channeled attacks. Stealth provides no defenses, it merely makes you untargetable. And all forms of stealth tell you exactly where the thief is right as he enters stealth. Chuck some AoEs at him or cleave him down, and he is going to drop pretty quickly. There is a reason thieves avoid stealth as much as possible in-combat unless it is to run away.

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I really only find thieves annoying when they reset the fight over and over again. Not saying it's OP, just annoying.. that and when you 1vX a group and succeed, they come back and the thief spams pistol 4 daze or a random rifle dead eye pops out of stealth and takes 3/4ths of your health while you're actively fighting others. Again.. all this is just not fun to deal with and in my opinion a "cheese" style bad player, but I don't believe it's overpowered, it comes down to my incorrect choice on choosing a priority target to kill or lack of awareness. Every class has a function in this game and thief has always kept other more annoying things to fight in check.

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