Stealth Counter Play: Driving My WvW Guild Members From Playing the Game

[jpsssss.7530]

@"Sleepwalker.1398" said:

Well, i gotta say when you encounter a holo that comes out of stealth and chain cc you or a soulbeast that comes out of stealth either downs you in 1 hit or 2 then you will know how the other classes abuse stealth as well.

I sometimes modify a "meta" build so I have reliable stab/stunbreak and maybe an invuln/block if possible. So for a soulbeast roaming/havoc build I changed the gear up a bit until I was satisfied with survivability and swapped the survival skill for yak stance and kept signet of stone. Also, soulbeast does not have a ton of stealth. It has some, but not enough for it to be a problem. I know they use stealth. Due to the amount, I wouldn't say "abuse". Deadeye can literally have all of its slot skills apply stealth and then have some more from weapons and traits.

I will clarify: I do not mind stealth as a mechanic, I HATE stealth (and all abusable gameplay mechanics) with no counterplay. Everything is fine in moderation. Deadeye far exceeds moderation (potentially mesmer as well, but it at least can't remove revealed and all the CDs are reasonably long).

[bq pd.2148]

@jpsssss.7530 said:

@"Sleepwalker.1398" said:

Well, i gotta say when you encounter a holo that comes out of stealth and chain cc you or a soulbeast that comes out of stealth either downs you in 1 hit or 2 then you will know how the other classes abuse stealth as well.

I sometimes modify a "meta" build so I have reliable stab/stunbreak and maybe an invuln/block if possible. So for a soulbeast roaming/havoc build I changed the gear up a bit until I was satisfied with survivability and swapped the survival skill for yak stance and kept signet of stone. Also, soulbeast does not have a ton of stealth. It has some, but not enough for it to be a problem. I know they use stealth. Due to the amount, I wouldn't say "abuse". Deadeye can literally have all of its slot skills apply stealth and then have some more from weapons and traits.

I will clarify: I do not mind stealth as a mechanic, I HATE stealth (and all abusable gameplay mechanics) with no counterplay. Everything is fine in moderation. Deadeye far exceeds moderation (potentially mesmer as well, but it at least can't remove revealed and all the CDs are reasonably long).

but for ranger stealth is just a target break, a short invisibility. for a deadeye it is usually ALOT more than just being invisible. you simply cant compare the effects. alot more of the deadeye depends on that stealth then on your soulbeast.

[Dawdler.8521]

@MUDse.7623 said:

@jpsssss.7530 said:

@"Sleepwalker.1398" said:

Well, i gotta say when you encounter a holo that comes out of stealth and chain cc you or a soulbeast that comes out of stealth either downs you in 1 hit or 2 then you will know how the other classes abuse stealth as well.

I sometimes modify a "meta" build so I have reliable stab/stunbreak and maybe an invuln/block if possible. So for a soulbeast roaming/havoc build I changed the gear up a bit until I was satisfied with survivability and swapped the survival skill for yak stance and kept signet of stone. Also, soulbeast does not have a ton of stealth. It has some, but not enough for it to be a problem. I know they use stealth. Due to the amount, I wouldn't say "abuse". Deadeye can literally have all of its slot skills apply stealth and then have some more from weapons and traits.

I will clarify: I do not mind stealth as a mechanic, I HATE stealth (and all abusable gameplay mechanics) with no counterplay. Everything is fine in moderation. Deadeye far exceeds moderation (potentially mesmer as well, but it at least can't remove revealed and all the CDs are reasonably long).

but for ranger stealth is just a target break, a short invisibility. for a deadeye it is usually ALOT more than just being invisible. you simply cant compare the effects. alot more of the deadeye depends on that stealth then on your soulbeast.

HA!

I've meet druids that stealth more than deadeyes.

[Shadowcat.2680]

@jpsssss.7530 said:

All any deadeye ever does is stealth, shoot crazy burst from 1500 range, and then stealth again. If you don't kill, a repeat of the previous sentence is all you need.

Players assuming deadeye can only do rifle in WvW just makes the fight easier for the deadeye. I've lost track of the number of things wanting to spam projectile hate while I'm trying to land the backstab.

[Turk.5460]

@jpsssss.7530 said:My guild, who before dead eye was released consistently 2-manned keeps can't do that anymore because there is a class that has no counterplay running around.

I kill DE's all the time. By myself, playing DrD, Thief, Holo, Power Mesmer and DH... I don't need 5 people to do so...Hold on, let me guess, according to you this means that every single DE I've ever killed has been a complete potato, right?

[babazhook.6805]

People need to get over this "I played DE for two hours, know all about the build and it OP " .

Play the build for 3 MONTHS. Play it all the time and not in 30 minute bursts. In playing for longer periods of time you will not only learn how the build works but you will encounter persons in other professions that CAN kill you and see just how it done. You will also learn that if the thief is just going to camp stealth, you need do nothing on your part. Just leave. It no different then a guy just sitting in a tower. If you can not kill him because he in the tower you leave. You will learn that as far as flipping an objective goes the DE can not do it if stealthed.

One of the problems is just as it with the old argument "a thief can always reset a fight with its mobility" , is that people think if DE spotted in an area a given group or individual HAS to kill him. You don't!. When I am on one of my builds with limited reveals and or prone to a kite when that mark applied to me I just move on. There simply no purpose to flailing around because "I need to kill him". If I lack the mobility to chase down an enemy because of my build, I do not just try and chase him down anyways then complain when I am unable to.

What really gets the peoples ire is not "Lack of counterplay" it that with other proffessions a group of 5 will usually kill a singleton. A Thief can generally escape such situations and those trying to kill him just somehow feel an inherent right to the kill. You will note that escapibility exists in a couple of other classes (Some ranger builds such as druid and mesmer) and the same complaints made. The frustration level would go way down if people just understood this is one of the advantages of those builds. They can escape. Being able to escape a given encounter IS just as valid as being able to stick in an encounter and swap blows in non stop battles. It is just as valid as a 5 person team running into a person on his own and downing that person.It does not have to be "fair and blanced" and I am certain there a whole lot of people who on roaming the lands alone and running into a group of 10 , do not think after being downed that it was a lot of "fun". Anything we do becomes "unfun" if all we focus on is what we can not do.

[babazhook.6805]

dup entry deleted

[Nebilim.5127]

@"babazhook.6805" said:People need to get over this "I played DE for two hours, know all about the build and it OP " .

Play the build for 3 MONTHS. Play it all the time and not in 30 minute bursts. In playing for longer periods of time you will not only learn how the build works but you will encounter persons in other professions that CAN kill you and see just how it done. You will also learn that if the thief is just going to camp stealth, you need do nothing on your part. Just leave. It no different then a guy just sitting in a tower. If you can not kill him because he in the tower you leave. You will learn that as far as flipping an objective goes the DE can not do it if stealthed.

One of the problems is just as it with the old argument "a thief can always reset a fight with its mobility" , is that people think if DE spotted in an area a given group or individual HAS to kill him. You don't!. When I am on one of my builds with limited reveals and or prone to a kite when that mark applied to me I just move on. There simply no purpose to flailing around because "I need to kill him". If I lack the mobility to chase down an enemy because of my build, I do not just try and chase him down anyways then complain when I am unable to.

What really gets the peoples ire is not "Lack of counterplay" it that with other proffessions a group of 5 will usually kill a singleton. A Thief can generally escape such situations and those trying to kill him just somehow feel an inherent right to the kill. You will note that escapibility exists in a couple of other classes (Some ranger builds such as druid and mesmer) and the same complaints made. The frustration level would go way down if people just understood this is one of the advantages of those builds. They can escape. Being able to escape a given encounter IS just as valid as being able to stick in an encounter and swap blows in non stop battles. It is just as valid as a 5 person team running into a person on his own and downing that person.It does not have to be "fair and blanced" and I am certain there a whole lot of people who on roaming the lands alone and running into a group of 10 , do not think after being downed that it was a lot of "fun". Anything we do becomes "unfun" if all we focus on is what we can not do.

I think you are misunderstanding people ire about stealth. Your case would work if everything the thief ever did was just run away. But it isn't used this way and you know it. It is abused to engage and disengage repeatedly, and just saying "Just ignore it bro, move on and let him pick you off slowly" isn't exactly a good way to deal with the situation. The person standing on top of the tower can't rail on me if i keep my distance, i can see him, i can avoid him and run away. I can't do any of that against a stalking DE.

[Turkeyspit.3965]

@Turk.5460 said:OP's complaint seems to be focused on 1v1s or perhaps 2v2s? Not something ANET balances the game around.

Nor should it be, because I don't think it's a balance issue. I don't think anyone would say that permastealth DE's sway the outcome of WvW skirmishes.

BUT, getting sniped by them is annoying as kitten, and last I checked this is supposed to be a video game, which would suggest that it be 'fun' to play. How can anyone say that fighting against the current flavor of DE could be considered 'fun'?

Just last night I was just casually farming camps on my Soulbeast, running next to but not grouped with, another random player also on a ranger. We attacked a camp, and after killing almost all the NPCs, I happened to pan my camera to my SE (so behind me) and see the player getting downed from range by a DE. I immediately switched targets to him and got off an autoshot before he re-entered stealth. I went over to try and revive the other player but before I got there he was stomped from stealth by the DE.

I then started running back to the camp because there were at least buildings to break LOS when I was marked. I dodge rolled only to get ganked by another thief from the 3rd server (he got me with a backstab), and I was downed and defeated.

Now, if there had been a skilled Mesmer there, or a Spellbreaker, things probably would have gone exactly the same way. I know I'm not an awesome WvW'er and I pretty much suck at 1v1. But at least against a Mesmer I would have had a chance to fight back! I probably would have misstargeted their clones, or not dodge out of their shatter, but at least I was doing 'something' to fight back.

Against the current crop of DE there is nothing to do to fight back. If they don't succeed with the gank from stealth, they reenter stealth and try again, or run away if they want. In every situation they are the ones in control.

For the non-DE player, how is that fun?

This isn't a rock/paper/scissors situation that we just shrug off and accept the limitations of our profession. This is about broken mechanics that allow a DE player to have more control, more power, and too much of an advantage in every 1v1 situation, and like it or not, 1v1 does happen. DE is even more powerful than a Mesmer because at least a Mesmer you can spot as they aren't always in stealth, while it is the DE who decides if there is going to be a fight or not.

It isn't always about balance in the game mode, as it's equally important that all players have fun.

[bq pd.2148]

@Turkeyspit.3965 said:

@Turk.5460 said:OP's complaint seems to be focused on 1v1s or perhaps 2v2s? Not something ANET balances the game around.

Nor should it be, because I don't think it's a balance issue. I don't think anyone would say that permastealth DE's sway the outcome of WvW skirmishes.

BUT, getting sniped by them is annoying as kitten, and last I checked this is supposed to be a video game, which would suggest that it be 'fun' to play. How can anyone say that fighting against the current flavor of DE could be considered 'fun'?

Just last night I was just casually farming camps on my Soulbeast, running next to but not grouped with, another random player also on a ranger. We attacked a camp, and after killing almost all the NPCs, I happened to pan my camera to my SE (so behind me) and see the player getting downed from range by a DE. I immediately switched targets to him and got off an autoshot before he re-entered stealth. I went over to try and revive the other player but before I got there he was stomped from stealth by the DE.

I then started running back to the camp because there were at least buildings to break LOS when I was marked. I dodge rolled only to get ganked by another thief from the 3rd server (he got me with a backstab), and I was downed and defeated.

Now, if there had been a skilled Mesmer there, or a Spellbreaker, things probably would have gone exactly the same way. I know I'm not an awesome WvW'er and I pretty much suck at 1v1. But at least against a Mesmer I would have had a chance to fight back! I probably would have misstargeted their clones, or not dodge out of their shatter, but at least I was doing 'something' to fight back.

Against the current crop of DE there is nothing to do to fight back. If they don't succeed with the gank from stealth, they reenter stealth and try again, or run away if they want. In every situation they are the ones in control.

For the non-DE player, how is that fun?

This isn't a rock/paper/scissors situation that we just shrug off and accept the limitations of our profession. This is about broken mechanics that allow a DE player to have more control, more power, and too much of an advantage in every 1v1 situation, and like it or not, 1v1 does happen. DE is even more powerful than a Mesmer because at least a Mesmer you can spot as they aren't always in stealth, while it is the DE who decides if there is going to be a fight or not.

It isn't always about balance in the game mode, as it's equally important that all players have fun.

anything that can make you win can be considered unfun by your opponent and anything that can prevent you from losing aswell (escaping).

i like fighting deadeyes as i play deadeye alot myself and therefor often know their next moves sometimes before they know em. and if it is a deadeye vs deadeye fight that can also be fun getting the other out of stealth. on the other hand i dont like the game giving me the illusion of fighting back while all is see is 'evaded', 'invuln', 'blocked', '0', 'immune' etc. what i really despise is people running solo or in small groups on bunker builds that cant kill anyone and just are there to waste their opponents time.guess everyone has different things they dont like.

[Celsith.2753]

Some of my most fun recent fights have been against groups of deadeyes. I find burst or be killed fights much more exciting than fights filled with people that are tanky and hoping to win by attrition. To each their own.

[subversiontwo.7501]

To make a long story short (and as with many other balance issues in the game): Anet should just have balanced stealth after the lower stealth classes in vanilla, instead of rebalancing the weaker stealth classes towards the stronger stealth classes and then providing more counter balance which is now met with counter-counter balance and hopefully there will be no so forth. Many recent ability-design choices are patchwork on poor earlier choices.

The ways stealth works on the weaker stealthing classes with a couple longer-cooldown abilities (whether they are blasts or not) is mostly fine. In vanilla the issue was only really thieves, it wasn't until later that other classes began to have an overabundance of stealths and resets. The way Anet handles balance now and the amount attention WvW gets overall obviously means that them rebalancing WvW with WvW in mind is a farwaway longshot. That however, would be the way forward - going back to basics and rebalancing from there with only small necessary redesign. The core system worked better for WvW in terms of complexity-to-scaling and performance, the added complexity has done little for WvW. The core design was already complex enough for WvW.

[Chistorm.5196]

Dead eye is just a glorified gun flame beserker warrior. I remember the days where every thief on the forums QQ so hard that gun flame is over powered and nerf gun flame, head butt, and shield bash and arc divider to the ground. Then they come out with deadeye that has 105% on malice 7 not including other damage mods to add to a UNBLOCKABLE less then half a second and even more 50% increase in speed from kneel. All while having 25 stacks of might, protection, fury and other boons to add to it. Then the best respond is to dodge? Oh wait when a evasive damaging daredevil had that much trouble with a berserker warrior Anet answer was to nerf berserker warrior to ground and make a elite deadeye that does what berserker does but in permanent stealth, with mobility, and 1500 range. They need add counter play, either remove the damage mod on Death judge or make it blockable because gunflame is blockable and can be reflected if not carrying signet of might and that would make deadeyes have to carry Balisk venom to make it unblockable.

[Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497]

@Chistorm.5196 said:Dead eye is just a glorified gun flame beserker warrior. I remember the days where every thief on the forums QQ so hard that gun flame is over powered and nerf gun flame, head butt, and shield bash and arc divider to the ground. Then they come out with deadeye that has 105% on malice 7 not including other damage mods to add to a UNBLOCKABLE less then half a second and even more 50% increase in speed from kneel. All while having 25 stacks of might, protection, fury and other boons to add to it. Then the best respond is to dodge? Oh wait when a evasive damaging daredevil had that much trouble with a berserker warrior Anet answer was to nerf berserker warrior to ground and make a elite deadeye that does what berserker does but in permanent stealth, with mobility, and 1500 range. They need add counter play, either remove the damage mod on Death judge or make it blockable because gunflame is blockable and can be reflected if not carrying signet of might and that would make deadeyes have to carry Balisk venom to make it unblockable.

Because one you have a large enough warning that requires setup and trade offs.

The other was on a profession that could face tank its way through a load of bullshit and hit you with something insanely devastating without warning. And with barely a single trade off to defensive capabilities.

Nevermind the fact that DE DJ expends his stacks for missing. AND that any boons hes gotten previously from premeditation, does not refresh till he swaps targets. Lets conviently forget that because of the huge one shot damage!

[kash.9213]

I had a lot of fun on original DE and really didn't feel the need to stealth much except to gain another Revealed for a couple of traits when I didn't want to use DJ. People didn't like being Marked and stalked having the choice to counter some of the most obvious time gated class mechanics and tells or to just leave unharmed so now they get to play against dodge to stealth and quick Malicious Backstabs. Like MUDSe mentioned, figure out a way for Shadow Arts builds to retain trait effects from stealth after reveal or come up with a quality replacement for that whole trait line....then find another build to complain about when your guild can't bother to change a few traits or cover each other.

[Turk.5460]

@Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:Nevermind the fact that DE DJ expends his stacks for missing.

Where are you getting this from? Malice stays if the attack is evaded/blinded/invlun'd/LOS'd/Out of Range. The only thing that eats up malice is if the attack is absorbed (Full Counter, Signet of Stone, Endure Pain). Even if the attack is body blocked by your enemy's teammate (damaging them with a 0-malice DJ, which is still a 6 or 7k hit) the malice stacks will remain...

[Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497]

@Turk.5460 said:

@Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:Nevermind the fact that DE DJ expends his stacks for missing.

Where are you getting this from? Malice stays if the attack is evaded/blinded/invlun'd/LOS'd/Out of Range. The only thing that eats up malice is if the attack is absorbed (Full Counter, Signet of Stone, Endure Pain). Even if the attack is body blocked by your enemy's teammate the malice stacks will remain...

I barely pay attention to it to be honest as I have a hard time seeing the flames. I just count the hits. Assume i burned it, and count up again. Just seemed fair to assume you lose it.

[Turk.5460]

@Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:

@Turk.5460 said:

@Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:Nevermind the fact that DE DJ expends his stacks for missing.

Where are you getting this from? Malice stays if the attack is evaded/blinded/invlun'd/LOS'd/Out of Range. The only thing that eats up malice is if the attack is absorbed (Full Counter, Signet of Stone, Endure Pain). Even if the attack is body blocked by your enemy's teammate the malice stacks will remain...

I barely pay attention to it to be honest as I have a hard time seeing the flames. I just count the hits. Assume i burned it, and count up again. Just seemed fair to assume you lose it.

Yeah it makes sense that it would be lost just as Warriors lose Adrenaline even if their Burst Skills don't hit.

[Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497]

@Turk.5460 said:

@Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:

@Turk.5460 said:

@Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:Nevermind the fact that DE DJ expends his stacks for missing.

Where are you getting this from? Malice stays if the attack is evaded/blinded/invlun'd/LOS'd/Out of Range. The only thing that eats up malice is if the attack is absorbed (Full Counter, Signet of Stone, Endure Pain). Even if the attack is body blocked by your enemy's teammate the malice stacks will remain...

I barely pay attention to it to be honest as I have a hard time seeing the flames. I just count the hits. Assume i burned it, and count up again. Just seemed fair to assume you lose it.

Yeah it makes sense that it would be lost just as Warriors lose Adrenaline even if their Burst Skills don't hit.

Wouldn't be much of a nerf to be honest. More to line up with consistentcy.

[bq pd.2148]

@Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:

@Turk.5460 said:

@Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:

@Turk.5460 said:

@Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:Nevermind the fact that DE DJ expends his stacks for missing.

Where are you getting this from? Malice stays if the attack is evaded/blinded/invlun'd/LOS'd/Out of Range. The only thing that eats up malice is if the attack is absorbed (Full Counter, Signet of Stone, Endure Pain). Even if the attack is body blocked by your enemy's teammate the malice stacks will remain...

I barely pay attention to it to be honest as I have a hard time seeing the flames. I just count the hits. Assume i burned it, and count up again. Just seemed fair to assume you lose it.

Yeah it makes sense that it would be lost just as Warriors lose Adrenaline even if their Burst Skills don't hit.

Wouldn't be much of a nerf to be honest. More to line up with consistentcy.

with m7 it would be a buff, not a nerf as the deadeye then could endlessly spamm.

[Chistorm.5196]

Because one you have a large enough warning that requires setup and trade offs.

The other was on a profession that could face tank its way through a load of kitten and hit you with something insanely devastating without warning. And with barely a single trade off to defensive capabilities.

Nevermind the fact that DE DJ expends his stacks for missing. AND that any boons hes gotten previously from premeditation, does not refresh till he swaps targets. Lets conviently forget that because of the huge one shot damage!

Berserker can’t face tank unblockable unless they dodge or use endure pain. You can sit in stealth permanently, steal boons, cause last stand to proc off your steal daze, never worry about reveal because shadowmeld, all while doing high damage from 1500 range, high mobility, with 25 stacks of might plus almost every boon plus protection. But again seeing that you play a thief it’s ok. Probably another thief who QQ in the forum about daredevil getting destroy by berserkers because they didn’t use bandit defense Utilty or whirl axe reflect on a gun flame. Mind you can get 16 seconds of stealth from just two dodge rolls and a swap easy.

[Turk.5460]

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:

@Turk.5460 said:

@Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:

@Turk.5460 said:

@Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:Nevermind the fact that DE DJ expends his stacks for missing.

Where are you getting this from? Malice stays if the attack is evaded/blinded/invlun'd/LOS'd/Out of Range. The only thing that eats up malice is if the attack is absorbed (Full Counter, Signet of Stone, Endure Pain). Even if the attack is body blocked by your enemy's teammate the malice stacks will remain...

I barely pay attention to it to be honest as I have a hard time seeing the flames. I just count the hits. Assume i burned it, and count up again. Just seemed fair to assume you lose it.

Yeah it makes sense that it would be lost just as Warriors lose Adrenaline even if their Burst Skills don't hit.

Wouldn't be much of a nerf to be honest. More to line up with consistentcy.

with m7 it would be a buff, not a nerf as the deadeye then could endlessly spamm.

Easy, 10-15s cooldown on M7. Increase boons to 15s 7.5s Protection as compensation.

[bq pd.2148]

@Turk.5460 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:

@Turk.5460 said:

@Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:

@Turk.5460 said:

@Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:Nevermind the fact that DE DJ expends his stacks for missing.

Where are you getting this from? Malice stays if the attack is evaded/blinded/invlun'd/LOS'd/Out of Range. The only thing that eats up malice is if the attack is absorbed (Full Counter, Signet of Stone, Endure Pain). Even if the attack is body blocked by your enemy's teammate the malice stacks will remain...

I barely pay attention to it to be honest as I have a hard time seeing the flames. I just count the hits. Assume i burned it, and count up again. Just seemed fair to assume you lose it.

Yeah it makes sense that it would be lost just as Warriors lose Adrenaline even if their Burst Skills don't hit.

Wouldn't be much of a nerf to be honest. More to line up with consistentcy.

with m7 it would be a buff, not a nerf as the deadeye then could endlessly spamm.

Easy, 10-15s cooldown on M7.

to encourage again longer stealth periods ? i mean thats cool for the target to recover but i thought you were one of those that didnt like thieves going into stealth for 10s to reengage you even made a new thread to replace some stealth with CC so we get back our spamm 3 meta wich is so much fun.

[Turk.5460]

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Turk.5460 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:

@Turk.5460 said:

@Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:

@Turk.5460 said:

@Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497 said:Nevermind the fact that DE DJ expends his stacks for missing.

Where are you getting this from? Malice stays if the attack is evaded/blinded/invlun'd/LOS'd/Out of Range. The only thing that eats up malice is if the attack is absorbed (Full Counter, Signet of Stone, Endure Pain). Even if the attack is body blocked by your enemy's teammate the malice stacks will remain...

I barely pay attention to it to be honest as I have a hard time seeing the flames. I just count the hits. Assume i burned it, and count up again. Just seemed fair to assume you lose it.

Yeah it makes sense that it would be lost just as Warriors lose Adrenaline even if their Burst Skills don't hit.

Wouldn't be much of a nerf to be honest. More to line up with consistentcy.

with m7 it would be a buff, not a nerf as the deadeye then could endlessly spamm.

Easy, 10-15s cooldown on M7.

to encourage again longer stealth periods ? i mean thats cool for the target to recover but i thought you were one of those that didnt like thieves going into stealth for 10s to reengage you even made a new thread to replace some stealth with CC so we get back our spamm 3 meta wich is so much fun.

No, that encourages you to go into stealth more often. Many other DE players aren't frightened by the thought of being outside of stealth for a while. You don't speak for how everyone else plays, just you, and you're literally the only one who has voiced that type of "concern". Stop.

If you want to talk about what I suggested in another thread, please go post about it there.

[Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497]

@Chistorm.5196 said:

Because one you have a large enough warning that requires setup and trade offs.

The other was on a profession that could face tank its way through a load of kitten and hit you with something insanely devastating without warning. And with barely a single trade off to defensive capabilities.

Nevermind the fact that DE DJ expends his stacks for missing. AND that any boons hes gotten previously from premeditation, does not refresh till he swaps targets. Lets conviently forget that because of the huge one shot damage!

Berserker can’t face tank unblockable unless they dodge or use endure pain. You can sit in stealth permanently, steal boons, cause last stand to proc off your steal daze, never worry about reveal because shadowmeld, all while doing high damage from 1500 range, high mobility, with 25 stacks of might plus almost every boon plus protection. But again seeing that you play a thief it’s ok. Probably another thief who QQ in the forum about daredevil getting destroy by berserkers because they didn’t use bandit defense Utilty or whirl axe reflect on a gun flame. Mind you can get 16 seconds of stealth from just two dodge rolls and a swap easy.

It's cool and all you want to be antagonistic, but you're making a fool out of yourself when a quick search through forum history shows that I've never really complained about most of the professions. Reaper and Burn Guardian earned my silent ire during HoT, but I've never complained about them. And the only real active complaint I have of now is Mesmer for doing too much of everything.

Berserkers I've rarely had an issue with, as I learned to just burst them before they were allowed to react or even know I'm near them. Haste Pop a Venom, Spiders for Damage and saying I hate you, Drake if I don't want you fighting back, Skale if I'm worried you might be pretty tanky. Regardless, it's 10% damage from Deadly Arts. Bounding Dodge, onto a Steal augmented with Deadly Arts' Mug, with Daze to interrupt - triggers Pulminary impact. Then Dual pistol unload with Deadly Arts' Panic Strike for the root. Executioner added a nice heap of damage when they went below 50% and combine that with Superior Rune of the Infiltrator's bonus damage. If not dead yet and they retalliate... Black Powder, Stolen skill whirl axe which mass spammed blind and finished them off.

This is in Valks at the time cuz condi and bunkering was meta for PvP and WvW.