What is the purpose of shortbow exactly

[arnitheking.8427]

It seems like it was designed to be a short range offensive weapon yet it fails miserably at that. Number 4 is very clunky because it's affected by LOS issues, why can't it work like dh longbow number 4? And why is the duration of the field 3 (??) seconds. Number 5 has similar issues, why isn't it a skillshot? it's extremly clunky and borderline unusable in high level pvp/wvw, you have to manually turn yourself around to face your target to use the skill.. why why why was it designed like this? Are the specs even tested by good pvp/wvw players? number 3 is almost impossible to hit even in open world pve, and even if you hit everything you're rewarded with.. torment stacks, that's it, no other effects. It's so bad compared to, more or less, all other ranged weapons of all other classes. It's clearly meant to be an offensive weapon, but its short range, clunky skills, LOS issues, complete lack of defensive skills (not even 1 evade/block/whatever) and finally its subpar damage makes me wonder where this weapon is supposed to be used? I am extremely disappointed, when I saw renegade changes were coming with the expac release, i was expecting more than number tweaks.. why is it almost always number tweaks. (yes I know, dev time, code already there etc etc)

And while we're at it, kalla warband members need to be like wells in wvw or they will be completely useless, it's not like their effects are that strong anyways. Also f2-f4 = ? , they need more than -5 energy reduction in pvp and wvw. (Keep in mind I am talking about high end pvp / wvw here, and not pve raids and so on. There really needs to be separate balance for those skills in pvp/wvw)

To me it seems like this entire spec was designed with raids in mind or otherwise isntanced pve.. it's very disappointing. Serious reworks (and not 20 % more damage on this skill, 10 % reduced cooldown on that one, reduced aftercast by one nanosecond on the auto chain etc..) are needed to make it viable in any high end content that involves player vs. player combat.

However I do have to say that the animations are very beautiful

EDIT: Also why are all cast times so long 3/4 seconds for what is supposed to create a "guerilla warfare-like" fighting experience. And a draining elite with a 1 second initial cast time? wat

[Esprit Dumort.3109]

I only use Shortbow because I can't use Hammer as my ranged weapon, since no Herald... IIRC it's the only other ranged weapon on the profession. So yeah, I agree it's not very good. I think a 10-20% damage buff is a start.

I only use it if I am forced out of melee, especially since the utilities are like wells and you need to be in most for the personal benefit.

Otherwise it's Sw/Sw or Sw/Axe that I camp.

As to F skills, I mostly use F3, as I don't even remember what F2 is, and I don't use F4 because the energy cost vs. 2s Alacrity is worthless in battle.

[ZeftheWicked.3076]

I could compare it ranger shortbow, but that'd be like fighting a wounded defenseless man with an uzi.Not to mention that ranger is build around ranged fighting and has tons of tools to keep the fight in the range he prefers, as for rev....well there's shiro dodgeroll and yy...eee....yeah, there's shiro dodgeroll.

[Zin.6170]

Sometimes I just want to sit back and relax from a distance.
So its purpose is to help me be lazy.

[Bezerker.2379]

@Esprit Dumort.3109 said:I only use Shortbow because I can't use Hammer as my ranged weapon, since no Herald... IIRC it's the only other ranged weapon on the profession. So yeah, I agree it's not very good. I think a 10-20% damage buff is a start.

I only use it if I am forced out of melee, especially since the utilities are like wells and you need to be in most for the personal benefit.

Otherwise it's Sw/Sw or Sw/Axe that I camp.

As to F skills, I mostly use F3, as I don't even remember what F2 is, and I don't use F4 because the energy cost vs. 2s Alacrity is worthless in battle.

Hammer is not a herald weapon. Shield is. You can use hammer as renegade. For power it worked well.

[Knighthonor.4061]

It's great as a side kick weapon for when you playing along side others.

[Set.7461]

Shortbow is slow at everything. Sevenshot is probably the hardest skillshot in the game. Not only do you have a long cast time, but you have to have optimal distance from your opponent and lead your shots, compensating for cast time. Ohh, on top of that, you also have to account for missile travel time. Even when you think your shots land perfectly, the hitboxes of the missiles are so small, that a "perfect" shot will only hit 4-5 times as seen by the torment stacks. It becomes a waste of energy to even use the skill unless you have heartpiercer and using it into a group.

You can increase your accuracy by setting up Sevenshot with Scorchrazor but the payoff damage is so low anyways. I'd rather use Spiritcrusher's slow effects following SB5 to keep kiting.

I mentioned the issue of Spiritcrusher's cast behind thing on the Renegade Update Thread and the response was disappointing. Renegade's shortbow is all about shooting arrows into the mist and having projectile come out of it yet for some reason, you can't fire a "volley of flaming arrows" over your head behind you?

SB2 constantly misses moving targets. A skill you have no control over is very unreliable. I can understand if your opponent was dodge rolling but just running negates anywhere from 33% to all the skill.

Playing shortbow and Kalla feels like you're playing chess. You have to constantly predict where your opponent is by leading your shortbow skill, setting them up with scorchrazor, and leading your summons skills. We all hate to admit it but it's not uncommon(in pvp/wvw) to whiff your summons due to the long cast time. This makes you look like a noob but the reality is Kalla and Renegade is slow. The numbers can be tweaked but the feeling of the spec is clunky. It's fine on AI but not against real people.

[arnitheking.8427]

@Set basically agree with ALL that you said. Imo. it could still be saved partially by drastically reducing cast times and eventually increasing ability velocity (4 should appear faster, number 2 should not have a relatively long pre-hit "loading" time, etc. number 3 probably really needs an overhaul) . A lot of work needs to be done to bring this spec into "viable" territory in high end pvp / wvw, at least for the shortbow and for the kalla abilities

[Ragion.2831]

You cant expect anything less from Anet. This is the exact same thing they did to reaper greatsword built a clunky weapon that only works on dumb AI. Revs hammer design is also unbelievably silly, and to think revs original design didn't have weapon swap. For some reason Anet insists on making clunky 2 handed weapons these days.

If not for the Artists this game would have turned to dust a long time ago. I dont know where they found those guys but the artists in this game are the best i have ever seen. Everyone else is just...

On a side note Its unfortunate that its pretty difficult to find rev's in matches now, before all the nerfs you would find them as much as you would find mesmers, guardians and necros. Makes you wonder if all the nerfs were worth it in the end.

[narcx.3570]

It's actually pretty comparable to other classes ranged condi weapons n terms of DPS...

I mean look at ranger sb vs renegade sb:aa - 147 dmg, bleed (1.3 sec/3 sec from behind), 20% chance finisher VS 133 dmg, 1 bleed (3 sec), 20% chance finisher (does aoe splash bleeds)sb2 - 460 dmg, poison(5 sec/7 sec from behind) x 5 VS 318 dmg, bleed (7sec) x 3sb3 - 183 dmg, evades, 100% chance finisher VS 576 dmg, torment, 20% chance finisher (4 sec) x 7sb4 - 293 dmg, 3 bleeds (12 sec) VS 588 dmg, burning (2 sec) x4sb5 - 147 dmg, 100% chance finisher VS 80 dmg, 2 burns (2 sec)[On top of all those numbers, every renegade skill has a shorter cooldown allowing all except 5 to be cast twice in a 10 second period (with sb2 being cast 3 times)]

The problem is that, like a lot of us have been saying all along, a ranged condi weapon doesn't fit with the rest of revenant's kit like it does with the other classes. Most classes with a ranged condi weapon get very little of their dps from their actual weapon skills, they get it from utilities/pets/taits/offhand torches. And if you're sitting in Kalaa using your short bow from range, you have no condi damaging utilities or pets (razor/soul claw's dps is abysmal outside of a group) to supplement your dps. Same with Mallyx, you get no dps support from range, you have to be in melee, and at that point you should just swap to mace/axe for the superior dmg/condi application.

I'm not exactly sure what everyone wanted from their short bow, but looking at any other classes ranged condi weapon kits, they certainly shouldn't have expected much. If you really want to focus in on imbalanced things, I'd look at profession skills. Citadel Bombardment = 0 dmg, 10 burns every 15 seconds for 1/3 of your energy vs like Reaper Shroud or a Lynx Pet or Scepter/Torch Phantasms... That's where it really falls behind.

[LucianDK.8615]

How about the trait that improves citadel bombardement? is it still a dud even then?

[Carighan.6758]

It looks very very pretty? Isn't that reason enough. :3

[Buran.3796]

@narcx.3570 said:It's actually pretty comparable to other classes ranged condi weapons n terms of DPS...

I'm not exactly sure what everyone wanted from their short bow, but looking at any other classes ranged condi weapon kits, they certainly shouldn't have expected much.

Renegade's short bow cast times are x3 the time of the Ranger's short bow ones (except Bloodbane Path which is x4), plus the Ranger has a half second evade, a cripple/root and a daze/stun integrated in its abilities; Ranger's short bow skills doesnt have problems with uneven terrain, also. Those features turn the Renegade short bow in a useless weapon in PvP/duelling/roaming and a non desireable one for PvE (mace + axe provides much more damage, staff provides defense, cleanse, mobility and the strongest defiant bar breaker in the game).

So esentially can be used in open world PvE for doing stuff at range at slower pace than doing the same at mele.

[otto.5684]

SB damage is not great but that is not where it is most lacking. It lacks any survivability tool. It is actually the only 5 slot weapon mix without evade or block for a rev. It also lacks mobility.

Even a good damage buff will not make SB useful. It will never come close to mace/axe. It's benefit had to be sustainability and mobility, espically that renegade lacks both. It does not, so it is nothing more than a ranged condi dps weapon that you use when you absolutely cannot fight in melee.

[Kodiak.3281]

The purpose is when you face an in/out bounty and have to stand at range you have the ability to do so and do damage with Hammer if you're Power and Shortbow if you're Condi.

That's it.

[arnitheking.8427]

It's unfortunate because I really like the looks of sb abilities and the flavor. But it's really clunky and doesn't really fit well in any competitive environment (in any gamemode)

[Howluffu.7259]

That's why i would like to be an hybrid gs with 1,2,3 being melee and 4,5 being completely range instead of that sb.PD: one of the range skills(4 or 5) being like range AA without energy cost and the other a great damaging range attack consuming energy.

[Killyox.3950]

@Esprit Dumort.3109 said:I only use Shortbow because I can't use Hammer as my ranged weapon, since no Herald... IIRC it's the only other ranged weapon on the profession.

It's not. Hammer is baseline. Herald is not required.

[Exalted Quality.8534]

Please add a 7 second block to Seven Shot because shortbow is really, really, really bad

[Ryouzanpaku.1273]

Main purpose is to sensory overload enemy with unicorns while using legendary bow.

[LucianDK.8615]

seven shot needs to go, its simply unuseable and easilly failing to live up to its potential. You waste far, far too much time with aiming the damn thing.

[Exalted Quality.8534]

They really need to rework the Sevenshot...it's really bad... Please make SevenShot a defensive skill so renegades arent completely defenseless on SB...

• 7 seconds of protection or
• 7 seconds of block or
• 777 barrier or

[ScottBroChill.3254]

I'm surprised they didn't add any sort of shadow step or mistwalk type of skill to it, seeing as the profession dips in and out of the mists.

[Kodiak.3281]

@ScottBroChill.3254 said:I'm surprised they didn't add any sort of shadow step or mistwalk type of skill to it, seeing as the profession dips in and out of the mists.

That's what I wanted Seven Shot to be. Jump backwards and then unleash the missiles forward to your target.

[Set.7461]

@LucianDK.8615 said:How about the trait that improves citadel bombardement? is it still a dud even then?

That trait is great for burst might generation(though short duration) but citadel bombardment has the same issues shortbow has. Long cast time, slow missiles, somewhat small AOE. It's excellent when there is a huge group of mobs clumped up and large hitbox enemies but it sucks on single targets. Plus you have to pray to Balthazar getting it to hit it pvp/wvw.

Seem like the counterplay to shortbow/renegade is to simply move. Move to negate SB2, SB3, and SB4. Move to avoid citadel bombardment. Move to avoid summons. SB5 actually requires someone to dodge or block. The more I play shortbow, the more I think it's meant to hit groups because even single ai mobs can avoid every attack from SB2 by simply moving. It's insanely frustrating that the most reliable dmg on shortbow is the same as every other renegade spec. Auto attack.