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please stop duelling in WvW!!


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The community has created their own rules and expectations of behaviour. Though, everyone has their own slightly different views on these rules nor are these set in stone or written down in the bible or something. You are free to do whatever you wish or interrupt any fights or screw with people BUT so is everyone else. Who who are you to force anyone to help you after you annoyed them in the first place? Seems rather childish to me.

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@Celsith.2753 said:Maybe those 5-10 should carry some alternate gear and get some experience at fighting without a pin. I hear duelling is excellent for that.....

as I mentioned once commander arrive he usually prefers to roll out as soon as possible - spreading around and swapping gear would slow this process, also, most of players from coordinated wvw groups I know pretend to hone their 1v1 skills either in figths that happens when roaming, or in sPvP duels in specifically chosen empty room between each other

@Celsith.2753 said:You and a lot of others in this thread are talking like 'Dueller' is some kind of breed of player which only duels and does nothing else.

because there is major difference between the type of players OP was complaining about and roamers of which you talk about. the latter one won't back off the fight when ally engages in complaining how he is interrupting "honoraburu fight".

as for honing small scale skills - WvW small scale has a tendency to never be "honourable" at all - it's never fair 1v1 with all skills getting off cd, and full hp before fight, people will drop you when you expect them the least, when you are out of CDs, and I for one would prefer in small scale to have by my side someone who has experience with true raw combat, not some "honourable 1v1" on the middle of the borderland....

and in large scale I'd prefer experienced zergling with no idea about small scales skirmishes than small scale expert that has barely even seen large scale action, because large scale runs of wildly different paradigms than small scale, and while zergling in small scale is mostly free kill - roamer unexperienced at large scale attached to large scale fight can loose that fight for his zerg.

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@"Lord Trejgon.2809" said:as someone have already mentioned above: my only issues with those "duellers" is that they take up map slots without contributing. a very crappy roamer would be better for the server on that map, than even bestest of best duelers that just stays on that one spot 1v1ing people.

if only there was a map, that falls under rulesets of wvw, but separated from main fighting maps....... oh wait, there is one.

except for some of duelers in here it's not valid spot because lo and behold "there is nothing in there"

(I really get argument why not sPvP, but I don't get why you can't move to Obsidian Sanctum and cease to be taking up map slots from people who wants to actually play the mode instead of running "buildcraft testing" - especially in scenarios when both duelers are old good friends sitting on voice chat)

As long as there isn't a queue on the map the duel guys are on, why bother?

And even if they are on a full map. For fighting it always needs two people.

It only gets to be a problem, when there are like 10 people on 1v1 spots standing afk waiting for opponents while the map is full.

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@Nimon.7840 said:

@"Lord Trejgon.2809" said:as someone have already mentioned above: my only issues with those "duellers" is that they take up map slots without contributing. a very crappy roamer would be better for the server on that map, than even bestest of best duelers that just stays on that one spot 1v1ing people.

if only there was a map, that falls under rulesets of wvw, but separated from main fighting maps....... oh wait, there is one.

except for some of duelers in here it's not valid spot because lo and behold "there is nothing in there"

(I really get argument why not sPvP, but I don't get why you can't move to Obsidian Sanctum and cease to be taking up map slots from people who wants to actually play the mode instead of running "buildcraft testing" - especially in scenarios when both duelers are old good friends sitting on voice chat)

As long as there isn't a queue on the map the duel guys are on, why bother?

And even if they are on a full map. For fighting it always needs two people.

It only gets to be a problem, when there are like 10 people on 1v1 spots standing afk waiting for opponents while the map is full.

b...b....but red alwayz haz dem commandurz online and active! :Pas I said above I'm only getting slightly irritated when I see them when player count on map, well counts - during normal off hours roaming with no queues I ignore them, like any other useless player during that time ;)

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Its kind of like the "honor among thieves" thing, or "honor in war". thingy.Buuuut also like "there are no rules to war or love".

If you are a decent and respectful person you try to let them duel fairly. If you want others to respect you when the time comes that you want to duel you ought to honor it yourself. But since its a "warzone" you cant really expect it or demand it.

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@geist.4126 said:Just roll over them repeatedly. If they want to duel there are two great spots. The windmill in the alpine borderlands and obsidian sanctum.

I never understood why Duels were moved from Windmill to the south sentry area.... windmill made a lot more sense and you were less likely to get zerged or bothered. #MakeWindmillDuelsGreatAgain

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@Syprus Soulslayer.1640 said:

@geist.4126 said:Just roll over them repeatedly. If they want to duel there are two great spots. The windmill in the alpine borderlands and obsidian sanctum.

I never understood why Duels were moved from Windmill to the south sentry area.... windmill made a lot more sense and you were less likely to get zerged or bothered. #MakeWindmillDuelsGreatAgain

Because of subjective idealism?

If a duelist win and no one saw him, did he really win?

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I said this a long time ago, I generally leave duelers alone and respect the whole dueling etiquette, EXCEPT on reset nights. If you want to duel on reset nights, while there are queues on every map, with people trying to get in WvW to join their guilds then go somewhere else. Just don't do it. Have some courtesy.

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@Ayakaru.6583 said:There is a time and a place for everythingWvW is NOT the time, and it is NOT the place for it.

I constantly run into fights in wvw, I see people from my server fighting people from other servers.So I join in, BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT YOU DO IN SERVER vs SERVER.The result is always; the people from my server stop fighting, and watch as I get slaughtered by the enemy.

I tell them to help me kill the enemy server's players, but they refuse, because apparantly 'i've interrupted a private fight'.In every sense of the word, that is treason, or betrayal, or whatever word you want to give it.Newsflash, you're in WvW, there are no private fights, you are a member of your server, and if I see members of my server fighting members of other servers,I will attempt to help them kill the enemies.You are representing your server in WvW, if you don't want to WvW, then don't come into WvW maps.

There's a lobby in PvP where you can fight freely with other players to your hearts contents.

Don't tell me how i can play a game i paid money for. tyvm.

If you want to kill a dueller while they're duelling fine go ahead. idc.

Also newsflash. Pvp and WvW use completely different stat combo/amulets/runes/food buffs and even skill splits so don't even try and compare.

Also a lot of roamers like to practice duelling so that they can improve their skills and make themselves into better roamers.

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@Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

@Celsith.2753 said:Maybe those 5-10 should carry some alternate gear and get some experience at fighting without a pin. I hear duelling is excellent for that.....

as I mentioned once commander arrive he usually prefers to roll out as soon as possible - spreading around and swapping gear would slow this process, also, most of players from coordinated wvw groups I know pretend to hone their 1v1 skills either in figths that happens when roaming, or in sPvP duels in specifically chosen empty room between each other

and in large scale I'd prefer experienced zergling with no idea about small scales skirmishes than small scale expert that has barely even seen large scale action, because large scale runs of wildly different paradigms than small scale, and while zergling in small scale is mostly free kill - roamer unexperienced at large scale attached to large scale fight can loose that fight for his zerg.

A lot of there's roamers/duelers are higher than gold rank and I don't think you Can get that with just flipping camps - they also zerg/raid too.

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@Syprus Soulslayer.1640 said:

@"geist.4126" said:Just roll over them repeatedly. If they want to duel there are two great spots. The windmill in the alpine borderlands and obsidian sanctum.

I never understood why Duels were moved from Windmill to the south sentry area.... windmill made a lot more sense and you were less likely to get zerged or bothered. #MakeWindmillDuelsGreatAgain

More realistic area for fighting, windmill is flat level ground, with only a single large building. You have more room by sentry, little hills and holes for LOSing and some pillars for LOSing. You also have sentry you can all flip to keep up pips without flipping SC that people QQ about. Windmill tends to only get used when you run into someone while ganking etc that wants a totally out of the way fight because the duels are preset, sentry is more open and visible as such you get more people stopping by to fight, even people who don't often duel, as those people would never just "happen" to walk by windmill and interact.

People often duel because 90% of the time, they are roamers and the BL is not very active, or they are bored of flipping the same camp for the 100th time and are taking a break to duel, rather than afk pip farm in spawn.

So much hate for the few people who duel, because "mah queue", but the 30+ people afk pip farming who could go to OS are not talked about.

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Threads like these are pointless to me on both sides. At the end of the day most players will do what they want with little regard for what you or anyone else thinks about it. Whether it be to duel or jump on the duelists. We all bought the game, we all play how we want. Eventually you will be forced to acknowledge that you have more control over how you react to something than you do the actions of other players. So stop beating around the bush and build yourself to go slaughter some duelists if it bothers you so much. That would be far more effectual than making this QQ thread anyway.

edit: corrected spelling errors

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@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

@Celsith.2753 said:Maybe those 5-10 should carry some alternate gear and get some experience at fighting without a pin. I hear duelling is excellent for that.....

as I mentioned once commander arrive he usually prefers to roll out as soon as possible - spreading around and swapping gear would slow this process, also, most of players from coordinated wvw groups I know pretend to hone their 1v1 skills either in figths that happens when roaming, or in sPvP duels in specifically chosen empty room between each other

and in large scale I'd prefer experienced zergling with no idea about small scales skirmishes than small scale expert that has barely even seen large scale action, because large scale runs of wildly different paradigms than small scale, and while zergling in small scale is mostly free kill - roamer unexperienced at large scale attached to large scale fight can loose that fight for his zerg.

A lot of there's roamers/duelers are higher than gold rank and I don't think you Can get that with just flipping camps - they also zerg/raid too.

actually - you can - just takes few years - I have personally met a roamer who have got such a rank with only flipping caps and killing other roamers - it just took him 2h a day since the WXP was implemented to te day when I have met - every day to achieve this - but still possible. Don't recall ever seeing anyone in gold from those chunk I (or OP) was refering to as duellers tho

People often duel because 90% of the time, they are roamers and the BL is not very active, or they are bored of flipping the same camp for the 100th time and are taking a break to duel, rather than afk pip farm in spawn.

and I never seen any of thsoe disengaging and complaining when more players decided to fight, which is what OP complained about.

So much hate for the few people who duel, because "mah queue", but the 30+ people afk pip farming who could go to OS are not talked about.

again "they are worse than us" is no argument....but for those "afk pip famers" - no, the way game is set up they could not go to OS - only those who are waiting out their activity timer to go out "could" (and lo and behold some of them do) but for people actually farming pips you need to keep that activity above tier 3 which means in the end you have to flip a camp every 10 minutes.....

and at least over here you rarely even get more than 10 present per map.

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaand they are still more use to a server fight at that point than people performing their honourable duels on the middle because they are actually flipping camps which has an effect on war score in skirmish

@"Brutal Augus.5917"We all bought the game, we all play how we want

ok, so if someone jumped into sPvP match, and then decided he needs to hone his screenshot taking skills, even to extend actively damaging his team score in some cases would you still use same argument? because this is fairly similar scenario - someone refuses to play the objective of the mode, while taking from a limited source that is players per map cap (in some cases even damaging the war score because if someone jumps in expecting 2v1, preparing for 2v1 in a build that would do sufficiently good in 2v1 but is crap in 1v1, but is left in 1v1 because "it's duel bruh", then the "dueler" for the sake of his things have just fed points to the enemy team - now I'm not saying all of them are like that, last time I've dropped into a "duel" like that they both backed off while the green one asked me to leave them be - and since it was during workhours for majority of society in this timezone I have let them be, and since then learned to ignore 1v1s in this specific area)

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Not gonna dignify that fallacy. I wouldn't defend that straw man logic just because the two scenarios are similar in one way when they are so different in a multitude of others.

Let me simplify my statement since it seems necessary:

Nothing you do will ever change the fact that people duel and people disrupt duels. You might as well just get over it and move on. Just like I'm about to move on from this thread.

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@Brutal Augus.5917 said:Not gonna dignify that false dichotomy. I wouldn't defend that straw man logic just because the two scenarios are similar in one way when they are so different in a multitude of others.

Let me simplify my statement since it seems necessary:

Nothing you do will ever change the fact that people duel and people disrupt duels. You might as well just get over it and move on. Just like I'm about to move on from this thread.

Sooooooooo much this. If you can change something there's sense in putting forth the effort to do so. Some situations such as this one however, where it involves many, many people, it's better to accept it and work with it rather than feeling like it's working against you. Just like IRL, it's better to accept that some people are bad drivers and to take the proper precautions than to yell and scream and try to tell everyone how they should drive.

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@"coro.3176" said:Look, you're free to do what you want and interrupt what you want, but the game has evolved certain ethics.

Eg. I'm roaming on red bl, guarding south camp, killing low-ranked wvw newbs 1v2 and 1v3. After about 20 minutes of this, some Platinum Legend shows up on a sword weaver and /bows to me. I respect that challenge, so I /bow back and move away from the camp so we can have a fair fight. We go at it for like 5 minutes and eventually someone wins. If I win, I let them up, /wave and either we go again, or they leave.

"Winning" the matchup matters so little in this game. Fun is what you make it. I personally enjoy a challenge, so I tend to respect duels

You have to admit the bolded quote is in contrast to the first paragraph.

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It´s actually pretty simple, OP: Identify the spots where duels happen and avoid them.

Or convince your commander that duelists make tasty morale boost snacks for their zerg and hope that the guy which is dueling from your own team does not pay attention to the mini map while dueling. Then use their flames to fire your chimney while you sit in your comfy chair and drink a delicious cup of their tears. ;)

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@"Lord Trejgon.2809" said:

because there is major difference between the type of players OP was complaining about and roamers of which you talk about. the latter one won't back off the fight when ally engages in complaining how he is interrupting "honoraburu fight".

as for honing small scale skills - WvW small scale has a tendency to never be "honourable" at all - it's never fair 1v1 with all skills getting off cd, and full hp before fight, people will drop you when you expect them the least, when you are out of CDs, and I for one would prefer in small scale to have by my side someone who has experience with true raw combat, not some "honourable 1v1" on the middle of the borderland....

and in large scale I'd prefer experienced zergling with no idea about small scales skirmishes than small scale expert that has barely even seen large scale action, because large scale runs of wildly different paradigms than small scale, and while zergling in small scale is mostly free kill - roamer unexperienced at large scale attached to large scale fight can loose that fight for his zerg.

Yes, the latter will back off and let an interrupting ally fight. I've done it. And i'm definately not a full time dueller.

I'd rather have a dueller by my side 90% of the time than the average pug I see interrupting. Not only are they usually also roamers well versed in small scale combat, but there's a greater than average chance they aren't keyboard turning skill clickers. Hell you talk like havok players are totally different but we have a habit of holding back and waiting in small fights to let the rally bait players die first lmao.

And in large scale I absolutely prefer an experienced small scale player against a full time zergling. The skirmisher is the staff ele that doesnt get ganked out of nowhere because he has a habit of panning his camera and knows what a smoke field looks like. He's not eyeballing the nearest champ bag with an enemy blob coming round the corner. Consistently on the dps meter of the squads that i'm in, it's the people I know have small scale knowledge that are top of the charts and last on their feet, or they're the live forever firebrand.

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@Lord Trejgon.2809 said:aaaaaaaaaaaaaaand they are still more use to a server fight at that point than people performing their honourable duels on the middle because they are actually flipping camps which has an effect on war score in skirmish

Ah, so someone letting a camp constantly get flipped so they can flip it back to keep their participation up is good for war score? Wouldn't it be better for war score to actually hold onto the camp?

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@Celsith.2753 said:

because there is major difference between the type of players OP was complaining about and roamers of which you talk about. the latter one won't back off the fight when ally engages in complaining how he is interrupting "honoraburu fight".

as for honing small scale skills - WvW small scale has a tendency to never be "honourable" at all - it's never fair 1v1 with all skills getting off cd, and full hp before fight, people will drop you when you expect them the least, when you are out of CDs, and I for one would prefer in small scale to have by my side someone who has experience with true raw combat, not some "honourable 1v1" on the middle of the borderland....

and in large scale I'd prefer experienced zergling with no idea about small scales skirmishes than small scale expert that has barely even seen large scale action, because large scale runs of wildly different paradigms than small scale, and while zergling in small scale is mostly free kill - roamer unexperienced at large scale attached to large scale fight can loose that fight for his zerg.

Yes, the latter will back off and let an interrupting ally fight. I've done it. And i'm definately not a full time dueller.

thank you for confirming you are crappy ally.....

I'd rather have a dueller by my side 90% of the time than the average pug I see interrupting. Not only are they usually also roamers well versed in small scale combat, but there's a greater than average chance they aren't keyboard turning skill clickers. Hell you talk like havok players are totally different but we have a habit of holding back and waiting in small fights to let the rally bait players die first lmao.

so, instead of defeating the enemy you prefer to firstly feed that enemy points? that's outright sabotaging your world you know?

And in large scale I absolutely prefer an experienced small scale player against a full time zergling. The skirmisher is the staff ele that doesnt get ganked out of nowhere because he has a habit of panning his camera and knows what a smoke field looks like. He's not eyeballing the nearest champ bag with an enemy blob coming round the corner. Consistently on the dps meter of the squads that i'm in, it's the people I know have small scale knowledge that are top of the charts and last on their feet, or they're the live forever firebrand.

nobody in friggin zerg gets "ganked out of nowhere", you sound like you've never participated in actuall organized zerg (note I said - experienced zergling, not rallybot pugger) and your skirmisher staff ele will most likely break formation at first bomb coming his way out of sheer habit - and if you were ever participating in organised large scale you'd know that staying in formation is crucial in large scale - the group that stays in formation will always win against a group that scatters - which is why I said what I said - even best roamers - when lacking large scale experience will tend to scatter around when faced with enemy push making whole group easy wipe for any group that just remain it's consistency - even if in 1v1 comparision every single zergling would be free kill for every single of those roamers - because that's how large scale works.

and if you have big coherent group there is no such thing as "someone gets ganked out of nowhere" because it is simply impossible thing to pull off when the group mantains cohesion. the only time "ganking" gets involved in large scale is when someone is lagging behind and groups cohesion is crap - but that simply means you have people in your group not fully acustomed with movement......

@Shagaliscious.6281 said:

@Lord Trejgon.2809 said:aaaaaaaaaaaaaaand they are still more use to a server fight at that point than people performing their honourable duels on the middle because they are actually flipping camps which has an effect on war score in skirmish

Ah, so someone letting a camp constantly get flipped so they can flip it back to keep their participation up is good for war score? Wouldn't it be better for war score to actually hold onto the camp?

it is not perfect but it is better for the war score than someone who does effectively nothing. because ya know at least you have the score ticking for 5 minutes of camps invul timer (and as far as my experience goes so far when borderland is in those hours where most of people online are pip farmers those two camps are flipped back and forth as soon as invul goes off.... meaning at least both sides involed has similar PPT from said camp AND it denies enemy to upgrade this cap to get more advantages of it - sure defending it so you can upgrade would be preferable, but even this is still better than, well nothing)

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@Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

@Lord Trejgon.2809 said:aaaaaaaaaaaaaaand they are still more use to a server fight at that point than people performing their honourable duels on the middle because they are actually flipping camps which has an effect on war score in skirmish

Ah, so someone letting a camp constantly get flipped so they can flip it back to keep their participation up is good for war score? Wouldn't it be better for war score to actually hold onto the camp?

it is not perfect but it is better for the war score than someone who does effectively nothing. because ya know at least you have the score ticking for 5 minutes of camps invul timer (and as far as my experience goes so far when borderland is in those hours where most of people online are pip farmers those two camps are flipped back and forth as soon as invul goes off.... meaning at least both sides involed has similar PPT from said camp AND it denies enemy to upgrade this cap to get more advantages of it - sure defending it so you can upgrade would be preferable, but even this is still better than, well nothing)

If a camp constantly gets flipped, you get 1 tick every 10ish minutes, which is minuscule if you would actually guard the camp, upgrade the camp and the tower that the yaks go to. Letting it constantly flip is literally letting 2 objectives never tier up, because you want your pips. If you actually care about the war score, that's what you should be doing, not farming pips. If all you want to do is farm pips, you shouldn't care about some duelers playing the game they want to play.

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@Shagaliscious.6281 said:

it is not perfect but it is better for the war score than someone who does effectively nothing. because ya know at least you have the score ticking for 5 minutes of camps invul timer (and as far as my experience goes so far when borderland is in those hours where most of people online are pip farmers those two camps are flipped back and forth as soon as invul goes off.... meaning at least both sides involed has similar PPT from said camp AND it denies enemy to upgrade this cap to get more advantages of it - sure defending it so you can upgrade would be preferable, but even this is still better than, well nothing)

If a camp constantly gets flipped, you get 1 tick every 10ish minutes, which is minuscule if you would actually guard the camp, upgrade the camp and the tower that the yaks go to. Letting it constantly flip is literally letting 2 objectives never tier up, because you want your pips. If you actually care about the war score, that's what you should be doing, not farming pips. If all you want to do is farm pips, you shouldn't care about some duelers playing the game they want to play.

and because I said those people are more usefull to the server than duelers doing nothing means now I'm one of them right? ;)

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