please stop duelling in WvW!!

[sephiroth.4217]

@Felipe.1807 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Felipe.1807 said:I honestly believe that if this game were a little more serious, WvW dueling should be bannable offence just like Match manipulation on sPvP...but I dont even bother trying to fight people dueling anymore, cause I know my "allies" will just watch as the enemy players 1v5 me...from my experiece 60% or more of the "duelers" will kill solo players(roamers) as they pass by, 100% will happen if you try to take the sentry that they are near...this kind of behavior dont bother me anymore, but if I see in map chat that they are doing this to more players I just tag up and spawn camp them till they rage quit to other map.

If it was a little more serious, theoretically, how exactly would you tell the difference between a duel and two players engaging 1v1?

Like, theoretically, if I was in the zerg and saw a sentry thinking "I'll just take a quick detour" and meet an enemy there that also was outside his zerg, we fight and then my zerg run past but the commander ignores me and all his zerglings of course follow... can I report the entire zerg and have them banned for not helping me? Cause what they did would be classed as match manipulation, intentionally aiding a duel instead of engaging in 50v1 as the rules would stipulate they have to. Or are they suppose to report me for leaving the proximity of the zerg?

Wait, wait... As a commander, can I report and ban anyone not following me? Because you never know if he's running off to a be a dueller. This will avoid and preempt the diffuse situation above. Simply create an automated system that give you 1 minute to get within 600 range of a commander, otherwise you get banned. The timer starts ticking every time you leave the radius. Commanding pug zergs solved!!

...i mean, you see 5 people of each server circle jerking each other while 2 keep fighting...is really easy to tell who are the duelers and who is just roaming...you guys are overthinking this, is kind of ridiculous lol i know some of you like your dueling and stuff, just saying, there are better places to do that.

Like your guild hall....?

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

@Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

@Celsith.2753 said:

@Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

because there is major difference between the type of players OP was complaining about and roamers of which you talk about. the latter one won't back off the fight when ally engages in complaining how he is interrupting "honoraburu fight".

as for honing small scale skills - WvW small scale has a tendency to never be "honourable" at all - it's never fair 1v1 with all skills getting off cd, and full hp before fight, people will drop you when you expect them the least, when you are out of CDs, and I for one would prefer in small scale to have by my side someone who has experience with true raw combat, not some "honourable 1v1" on the middle of the borderland....

and in large scale I'd prefer experienced zergling with no idea about small scales skirmishes than small scale expert that has barely even seen large scale action, because large scale runs of wildly different paradigms than small scale, and while zergling in small scale is mostly free kill - roamer unexperienced at large scale attached to large scale fight can loose that fight for his zerg.

Yes, the latter will back off and let an interrupting ally fight. I've done it. And i'm definately not a full time dueller.

thank you for confirming you are crappy ally.....

I'd rather have a dueller by my side 90% of the time than the average pug I see interrupting. Not only are they usually also roamers well versed in small scale combat, but there's a greater than average chance they aren't keyboard turning skill clickers. Hell you talk like havok players are totally different but we have a habit of holding back and waiting in small fights to let the rally bait players die first lmao.

so, instead of defeating the enemy you prefer to firstly feed that enemy points? that's outright sabotaging your world you know?

And in large scale I absolutely prefer an experienced small scale player against a full time zergling. The skirmisher is the staff ele that doesnt get ganked out of nowhere because he has a habit of panning his camera and knows what a smoke field looks like. He's not eyeballing the nearest champ bag with an enemy blob coming round the corner. Consistently on the dps meter of the squads that i'm in, it's the people I know have small scale knowledge that are top of the charts and last on their feet, or they're the live forever firebrand.

nobody in friggin zerg gets "ganked out of nowhere", you sound like you've never participated in actuall organized zerg (note I said - experienced zergling, not rallybot pugger) and your skirmisher staff ele will most likely break formation at first bomb coming his way out of sheer habit - and if you were ever participating in organised large scale you'd know that staying in formation is crucial in large scale - the group that stays in formation will always win against a group that scatters - which is why I said what I said - even best roamers - when lacking large scale experience will tend to scatter around when faced with enemy push making whole group easy wipe for any group that just remain it's consistency - even if in 1v1 comparision every single zergling would be free kill for every single of those roamers - because that's how large scale works.

and if you have big coherent group there is no such thing as "someone gets ganked out of nowhere" because it is simply impossible thing to pull off when the group mantains cohesion. the only time "ganking" gets involved in large scale is when someone is lagging behind and groups cohesion is crap - but that simply means you have people in your group not fully acustomed with movement......

@Shagaliscious.6281 said:

@Lord Trejgon.2809 said:aaaaaaaaaaaaaaand they are still more use to a server fight at that point than people performing their honourable duels on the middle because they are actually flipping camps which has an effect on war score in skirmish

Ah, so someone letting a camp constantly get flipped so they can flip it back to keep their participation up is good for war score? Wouldn't it be better for war score to actually hold onto the camp?

it is not perfect but it is better for the war score than someone who does effectively nothing. because ya know at least you have the score ticking for 5 minutes of camps invul timer (and as far as my experience goes so far when borderland is in those hours where most of people online are pip farmers those two camps are flipped back and forth as soon as invul goes off.... meaning at least both sides involed has similar PPT from said camp AND it denies enemy to upgrade this cap to get more advantages of it - sure defending it so you can upgrade would be preferable, but even this is still better than, well nothing)

Dude, that's not true at all. People are always getting ganked on the sides of the zerg from the enemy, I was doing it last night. Any class that is on the edge of the zerg ball that's at a mid health will most likely get targeted and most of the time you don't even need to down them as allies will most likely finish them of from the zerg with condis or just random aoe. And I am talking about the organised zerg from the likes of vabbi/wsr/ps, not ppt hero's from dl a d js.

[sephiroth.4217]

@fuzzyp.6295 said:I actually thought this was a joke at first. Really? Why is there such hatred to duelists?

Duelists aren't bothering the zerg. If they aren't bother you, why do you feel the need to bother them?

BeCaUsE mY ZeRg GoT wIpEd aNd wE wOuLd NoT hAve WiPeD iF tHeY weRe oN TaG liKe ThEY ShoUlD hAvE bEEN sO I rePoRt tHem foR MaTcH MaNipUlAtion!!!

[Lord Trejgon.2809]

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

@"Lord Trejgon.2809" said:nobody in friggin zerg gets "ganked out of nowhere", you sound like you've never participated in actuall organized zerg (note I said - experienced zergling, not rallybot pugger) and your skirmisher staff ele will most likely break formation at first bomb coming his way out of sheer habit - and if you were ever participating in organised large scale you'd know that staying in formation is crucial in large scale - the group that stays in formation will always win against a group that scatters - which is why I said what I said - even best roamers - when lacking large scale experience will tend to scatter around when faced with enemy push making whole group easy wipe for any group that just remain it's consistency - even if in 1v1 comparision every single zergling would be free kill for every single of those roamers - because that's how large scale works.

and if you have big coherent group there is no such thing as "someone gets ganked out of nowhere" because it is simply impossible thing to pull off when the group mantains cohesion. the only time "ganking" gets involved in large scale is when someone is lagging behind and groups cohesion is crap - but that simply means you have people in your group not fully acustomed with movement......Dude, that's not true at all. People are always getting ganked on the sides of the zerg from the enemy, I was doing it last night. Any class that is on the edge of the zerg ball that's at a mid health will most likely get targeted and most of the time you don't even need to down them as allies will most likely finish them of from the zerg with condis or just random aoe. And I am talking about the organised zerg from the likes of vabbi/wsr/ps, not ppt hero's from dl a d js.

"on the sides of the zerg" - that cohesion issue, a big one if "gank" is supposed to work (instead of focus fire from the enemy zerg)

and last time I've met vabbi on the field, their zergs were crap, dunno maybe they updated since then because recently I only had really time to play that one raid on reset night, so who knows maybe finally after the years vabbi have learned something. Which does not seem all that likely if you say their zerglings gets ganked by 3rd party...... (but then vabbi always seemed to have issue on their sustain tbh - they tended to field alot of people and have quite decent bombs, but everyone dropped like flies as soon as they get bombed)

[sephiroth.4217]

@Sleepwalker.1398 said:

@TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

I find this so funny, people are so mad they roll a class to hide and stomp someone they can't kill on their own. Yet yall are the ones that have issues with people dueling away from other people and not bothering them.

Its just a troll thing what i said.Anyway i have run past some of these duel places and stopped to watch a fight only to find it wasn't a duel and that i could have helped.I find that nowdays when i engage these battles if only 2 ppl are there, they would stop and our player would say its a duel, i'd leave.In op's case this didn't happen thus him complaining.Regardless, if your map is queued and your server needs help, you are hogging a spot of someone who could be doing better things than your stupid duel.

Who cares if map is qued and all that... WvW is so much more than zerging even though thats what 90% of most players are doing now days but thats because WVW has turned into a giant open world pk PvE map that discourages pvp, as evident by this thread.

You guys would have hated WvW years ago when it was all about havok squads and roamers, when the game mode was fight orientated and not focused on grouping up to kill NPCs or run from even fights.

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

@Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

@Lord Trejgon.2809 said:nobody in friggin zerg gets "ganked out of nowhere", you sound like you've never participated in actuall organized zerg (note I said - experienced zergling, not rallybot pugger) and your skirmisher staff ele will most likely break formation at first bomb coming his way out of sheer habit - and if you were ever participating in organised large scale you'd know that staying in formation is crucial in large scale - the group that stays in formation will always win against a group that scatters - which is why I said what I said - even best roamers - when lacking large scale experience will tend to scatter around when faced with enemy push making whole group easy wipe for any group that just remain it's consistency - even if in 1v1 comparision every single zergling would be free kill for every single of those roamers - because that's how large scale works.

and if you have big coherent group there is no such thing as "someone gets ganked out of nowhere" because it is simply impossible thing to pull off when the group mantains cohesion. the only time "ganking" gets involved in large scale is when someone is lagging behind and groups cohesion is crap - but that simply means you have people in your group not fully acustomed with movement......Dude, that's not true at all. People are always getting ganked on the sides of the zerg from the enemy, I was doing it last night. Any class that is on the edge of the zerg ball that's at a mid health will most likely get targeted and most of the time you don't even need to down them as allies will most likely finish them of from the zerg with condis or just random aoe. And I am talking about the organised zerg from the likes of vabbi/wsr/ps, not ppt hero's from dl a d js.

"on the sides of the zerg" - that cohesion issue, a big one if "gank" is supposed to work (instead of focus fire from the enemy zerg)

and last time I've met vabbi on the field, their zergs were crap, dunno maybe they updated since then because recently I only had really time to play that one raid on reset night, so who knows maybe finally after the years vabbi have learned something. Which does not seem all that likely if you say their zerglings gets ganked by 3rd party...... (but then vabbi always seemed to have issue on their sustain tbh - they tended to field alot of people and have quite decent bombs, but everyone dropped like flies as soon as they get bombed)

If the ganks are taking out hammer revs and staff weavers and the odd scourge then yes, if says it's effective.

[Lord Trejgon.2809]

@"sephiroth.4217" said:Who cares if map is qued and all that... WvW is so much more than zerging even though thats what 90% of most players are doing now days but thats because WVW has turned into a giant open world pk PvE map that discourages pvp, as evident by this thread.

You guys would have hated WvW years ago when it was all about havok squads and roamers, when the game mode was fight orientated and not focused on grouping up to kill NPCs or run from even fights.

lol, just lol.

first note: "years ago" term "havok squad" was not a thing, that's fairly recent invention and before that you'd have roamers, zergs and blobs (where "blob" was added because some servers decided to group up whole map population in one group and term "zerg" was no longer really cutting it)

and I have no idea where in this thread you find "evident" that wvw discourages pvp.....

EDIT:

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:If the ganks are taking out hammer revs and staff weavers and the odd scourge then yes, if says it's effective.

and would prove the point that vabbi still needs to learn how to zerg....

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

@Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

@"sephiroth.4217" said:Who cares if map is qued and all that... WvW is so much more than zerging even though thats what 90% of most players are doing now days but thats because WVW has turned into a giant open world pk PvE map that discourages pvp, as evident by this thread.

You guys would have hated WvW years ago when it was all about havok squads and roamers, when the game mode was fight orientated and not focused on grouping up to kill NPCs or run from even fights.

lol, just lol.

first note: "years ago" term "havok squad" was not a thing, that's fairly recent invention and before that you'd have roamers, zergs and blobs (where "blob" was added because some servers decided to group up whole map population in one group and term "zerg" was no longer really cutting it)

and I have no idea where in this thread you find "evident" that wvw discourages pvp.....

EDIT:

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:If the ganks are taking out hammer revs and staff weavers and the odd scourge then yes, if says it's effective.

and would prove the point that vabbi still needs to learn how to zerg....

Christ... you sound like there's people are halfway across the mini map. When a zerg gets bombed some people do get caught out or feaered the wrong way while their main zerg is going the other. Don't tell me you stack up as if you was all magnets 100% of the time.

[Lord Trejgon.2809]

@"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:Christ... you sound like there's people are halfway across the mini map. When a zerg gets bombed some people do get caught out or feaered the wrong way while their main zerg is going the other. Don't tell me you stack up as if you was all magnets 100% of the time.

feared away - lack of sufficient stab coverageget cauught out of main group - movement an cohesion issue in the group.

sure our guild don't always mantain 100% perfect cohesion but when we see wipe caused by lack of discipline (and/or experience) we are not afraid to point that out and by it's name, and keep working on improving ourselves in this regard, and the most experience ones rarely move out of commanders melee radius (in which case "ganking out" anyone from the group by third party roamers is borderline impossible)

and the point stays - someone experienced in this type of combat will be more valuable in such a group more than even best of roamers "panning out his camera around to not get ganked while in the middle of 20+ group" that has very little experience in zerg maneuvers - the latter will be far more likely to be pinned out of the group and wrecked. Even if he could win 1v1 against everyone involved.

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

@Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

@"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:Christ... you sound like there's people are halfway across the mini map. When a zerg gets bombed some people do get caught out or feaered the wrong way while their main zerg is going the other. Don't tell me you stack up as if you was all magnets 100% of the time.

feared away - lack of sufficient stab coverageget cauught out of main group - movement an cohesion issue in the group.

sure our guild don't always mantain 100% perfect cohesion but when we see wipe caused by lack of discipline (and/or experience) we are not afraid to point that out and by it's name, and keep working on improving ourselves in this regard, and the most experience ones rarely move out of commanders melee radius (in which case "ganking out" anyone from the group by third party roamers is borderline impossible)

and the point stays - someone experienced in this type of combat will be more valuable in such a group more than even best of roamers "panning out his camera around to not get ganked while in the middle of 20+ group" that has very little experience in zerg maneuvers - the latter will be far more likely to be pinned out of the group and wrecked. Even if he could win 1v1 against everyone involved.

You can have all of the stability in the world, corrupts always win simply because how much is in the game right now, how do you think some of there's spell breakers get interrupted with pulsing stab/resistance and with cover boons.

We are talking about zergs here not guild raids unless you're 1 of the builds that run 25+ and yes it is true that most experienced guys will hold hug the commander but most of them are not so easy to gank because of there class.

You forget that most of there's small scale people also do zergs and guild raids to. And some of them experienced zerg/small scale people know what to look for when they decide to play a gank build.

[Strider Pj.2193]

@Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

@"sephiroth.4217" said:Who cares if map is qued and all that... WvW is so much more than zerging even though thats what 90% of most players are doing now days but thats because WVW has turned into a giant open world pk PvE map that discourages pvp, as evident by this thread.

You guys would have hated WvW years ago when it was all about havok squads and roamers, when the game mode was fight orientated and not focused on grouping up to kill NPCs or run from even fights.

lol, just lol.

first note: "years ago" term "havok squad" was not a thing, that's fairly recent invention and before that you'd have roamers, zergs and blobs (where "blob" was added because some servers decided to group up whole map population in one group and term "zerg" was no longer really cutting it)

and I have no idea where in this thread you find "evident" that wvw discourages pvp.....

EDIT:

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:If the ganks are taking out hammer revs and staff weavers and the odd scourge then yes, if says it's effective.

and would prove the point that vabbi still needs to learn how to zerg....

Havoc is new? Really?

Are you sure you have played as long as you say?

Havoc, whether coined that or not, has been around for quite some time. My guild has been running it for over 5 years.

Cutting the 'edge' of a 'blob' was accomplished by pick teams. Usually from an organized Zerg busting guild. And usually as a component of that 20-25 ish group.

Havocs accomplish an aspect of that, but are usually separate. Previously? This 'havoc' squads/parties would be in a different part of the map hitting towers cutting off reinforcements, disrupting supply, basically creating havoc or a distraction.

It's not new. If it's new to you, I have no idea what types of servers you've been playing on.

[sephiroth.4217]

@Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

@"sephiroth.4217" said:Who cares if map is qued and all that... WvW is so much more than zerging even though thats what 90% of most players are doing now days but thats because WVW has turned into a giant open world pk PvE map that discourages pvp, as evident by this thread.

You guys would have hated WvW years ago when it was all about havok squads and roamers, when the game mode was fight orientated and not focused on grouping up to kill NPCs or run from even fights.

lol, just lol.

first note: "years ago" term "havok squad" was not a thing, that's fairly recent invention and before that you'd have roamers, zergs and blobs (where "blob" was added because some servers decided to group up whole map population in one group and term "zerg" was no longer really cutting it)

and I have no idea where in this thread you find "evident" that wvw discourages pvp.....

Theres plenty of videos on youtube dating back to the game start with havok guilds and fight squads, most of which were killed out with the introduction of the new guild halls...

I ran a havok guild, was in another havok guild and also ran with a zerg busting guild so it's literally impossible to tell me it didn't exist until recently...

It almost sounds like you came about after the HoT release or around that area? Because "roamers, zergs and blobs" was something that came with HoT.

[LetoII.3782]

Watchtower was the end of havoc

[Felipe.1807]

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Felipe.1807 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Felipe.1807 said:I honestly believe that if this game were a little more serious, WvW dueling should be bannable offence just like Match manipulation on sPvP...but I dont even bother trying to fight people dueling anymore, cause I know my "allies" will just watch as the enemy players 1v5 me...from my experiece 60% or more of the "duelers" will kill solo players(roamers) as they pass by, 100% will happen if you try to take the sentry that they are near...this kind of behavior dont bother me anymore, but if I see in map chat that they are doing this to more players I just tag up and spawn camp them till they rage quit to other map.

If it was a little more serious, theoretically, how exactly would you tell the difference between a duel and two players engaging 1v1?

Like, theoretically, if I was in the zerg and saw a sentry thinking "I'll just take a quick detour" and meet an enemy there that also was outside his zerg, we fight and then my zerg run past but the commander ignores me and all his zerglings of course follow... can I report the entire zerg and have them banned for not helping me? Cause what they did would be classed as match manipulation, intentionally aiding a duel instead of engaging in 50v1 as the rules would stipulate they have to. Or are they suppose to report me for leaving the proximity of the zerg?

Wait, wait... As a commander, can I report and ban anyone not following me? Because you never know if he's running off to a be a dueller. This will avoid and preempt the diffuse situation above. Simply create an automated system that give you 1 minute to get within 600 range of a commander, otherwise you get banned. The timer starts ticking every time you leave the radius. Commanding pug zergs solved!!

...i mean, you see 5 people of each server circle jerking each other while 2 keep fighting...is really easy to tell who are the duelers and who is just roaming...you guys are overthinking this, is kind of ridiculous lol i know some of you like your dueling and stuff, just saying, there are better places to do that.

Like your guild hall....?

Guild Hall, Obsidian Sanctum, sPvP dueling arenas...look, we all bought the game, so we are allowed to do whatever we want, the main point I was complaining is that when duelers just watch you get ganked by the enemy, and their excuse for the behavior is cause you interrupted their duel, so its totally fair for you get ganked 1v5 while they watch and spam /laugh...like i said, you can do what you want, but just dont get angry and start sending me salty messages just cause I tagged up with the only purpose to hunt down and make the enemy duelers rage quit to other map.

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

@Felipe.1807 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Felipe.1807 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Felipe.1807 said:I honestly believe that if this game were a little more serious, WvW dueling should be bannable offence just like Match manipulation on sPvP...but I dont even bother trying to fight people dueling anymore, cause I know my "allies" will just watch as the enemy players 1v5 me...from my experiece 60% or more of the "duelers" will kill solo players(roamers) as they pass by, 100% will happen if you try to take the sentry that they are near...this kind of behavior dont bother me anymore, but if I see in map chat that they are doing this to more players I just tag up and spawn camp them till they rage quit to other map.

If it was a little more serious, theoretically, how exactly would you tell the difference between a duel and two players engaging 1v1?

Like, theoretically, if I was in the zerg and saw a sentry thinking "I'll just take a quick detour" and meet an enemy there that also was outside his zerg, we fight and then my zerg run past but the commander ignores me and all his zerglings of course follow... can I report the entire zerg and have them banned for not helping me? Cause what they did would be classed as match manipulation, intentionally aiding a duel instead of engaging in 50v1 as the rules would stipulate they have to. Or are they suppose to report me for leaving the proximity of the zerg?

Wait, wait... As a commander, can I report and ban anyone not following me? Because you never know if he's running off to a be a dueller. This will avoid and preempt the diffuse situation above. Simply create an automated system that give you 1 minute to get within 600 range of a commander, otherwise you get banned. The timer starts ticking every time you leave the radius. Commanding pug zergs solved!!

...i mean, you see 5 people of each server circle jerking each other while 2 keep fighting...is really easy to tell who are the duelers and who is just roaming...you guys are overthinking this, is kind of ridiculous lol i know some of you like your dueling and stuff, just saying, there are better places to do that.

Like your guild hall....?

Guild Hall, Obsidian Sanctum, sPvP dueling arenas...look, we all bought the game, so we are allowed to do whatever we want, the main point I was complaining is that when duelers just watch you get ganked by the enemy, and their excuse for the behavior is cause you interrupted their duel, so its totally fair for you get ganked 1v5 while they watch and spam /laugh...like i said, you can do what you want, but just dont get angry and start sending me salty messages just cause I tagged up with the only purpose to hunt down and make the enemy duelers rage quit to other map.

Of all the years I have joined fight club, not once has anyone "rage quit" when a commander comes a long to wipe the duelers, instead mostly they follow your zerg and hurras your tail

[funassistant.6589]

As a public tag I enjoy chasing down duelers and I physically get aroused when I get that purple text in my chatbox.Also as Anet Support stated: "If you don't like people playing WvW go play PvP"

[Pyraxy.6247]

@Ayakaru.6583 said:

There's a lobby in PvP where you can fight freely with other players to your hearts contents.

PvP lobby doesn't have WvW stats, and even less builds.

[MithranArkanere.8957]

There's no such thing as duelers in the mist war maps.They could go to the edge of the mists of the Obsidian sanctum for that if they were actual duelers.They are players having fun farming newbies who may come close to help a fellow team mate while they keep their pips ticking. They always do it near a Sentry instead being more out of the way because they know newbies will likely walk by, and they can keep their participation up killing the sentries and dolyaks passing by.

That is treason. That is cheating. That's an undesirable behavior. And there's no way to make excuses about it.

The best way to address the situation is making sure there's way better places for actual duels, so these cheaters can't make up excuses.

• Change obsidian sanctum to become a better grounds for duels and GvGs:
  • Make it a shared cross-world map like the Edge of the Mists.
  • Add a series of objects on the edges of the Colosseum and the gvg arena in the edge of the mists that allows players to be assigned to different teams, similar to the ones in the Guild Arena.
  • Add a new enclosed area somewhere within the sanctum with a series of closed cages of different sizes all over the ground, the walls and hanging from chains on the ceiling, that have several entrances and allow up to 5 players to enter them from each entrance. Once in the cages, players would be put on the same team if they used the same entrance of the cage, regardless of the team they belong to. They would be able to leave using any of the entrances. This would allow players of the same team color to duel each other in the sanctum.
• Add a Guild Hall upgrade to allow guilds to switch the skill ruleset of their guild hall between PvE, PvP and WvW.
  • Once unlocked, you'd talk with a new NPC added by the upgrade, and choose to switch to one of the other two rulesets (Guilds start with PvE rules by default). After switching the rules, the guild hall instance would reload with the new rules.
  • Add a better way to invite guests to one's guild hall without actually inviting them to the guild or having to set a rank for them.

You all know that even if all of that was done and players could duel with WvW stats way better, you'd still see people "dueling" in mist war maps, using up slots on peak hours. Because they are not dueling. They are farming WvW tracks, pips and unsuspecting newbies, having fun at their expense. And let's not be coy about it. You all know it.

[misterman.1530]

@Safandula.8723 said:90‰of duels are in the same dueling spot, so stop whining and start to learn. For me dueling is a break from roaming and zerging, give 1 reason why i should t do that :p

Then you have no right to complain if you get steamrolled by a blob running past. I mean, why should they stop doing that?

[Trepidation Lost.3469]

No.(Body is 7 characters too short.) bite me.

[Lord Trejgon.2809]

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

@Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:Christ... you sound like there's people are halfway across the mini map. When a zerg gets bombed some people do get caught out or feaered the wrong way while their main zerg is going the other. Don't tell me you stack up as if you was all magnets 100% of the time.

feared away - lack of sufficient stab coverageget cauught out of main group - movement an cohesion issue in the group.

sure our guild don't always mantain 100% perfect cohesion but when we see wipe caused by lack of discipline (and/or experience) we are not afraid to point that out and by it's name, and keep working on improving ourselves in this regard, and the most experience ones rarely move out of commanders melee radius (in which case "ganking out" anyone from the group by third party roamers is borderline impossible)

and the point stays - someone experienced in this type of combat will be more valuable in such a group more than even best of roamers "panning out his camera around to not get ganked while in the middle of 20+ group" that has very little experience in zerg maneuvers - the latter will be far more likely to be pinned out of the group and wrecked. Even if he could win 1v1 against everyone involved.

You can have all of the stability in the world, corrupts always win simply because how much is in the game right now, how do you think some of there's spell breakers get interrupted with pulsing stab/resistance and with cover boons.

if corrupts "always win" for yoru experience then I question your commanders ability to lead....

We are talking about zergs here not guild raids unless you're 1 of the builds that run 25+ and yes it is true that most experienced guys will hold hug the commander but most of them are not so easy to gank because of there class.

dunno what you are talking about I was talking about "organised mass scale wvw" - and even explictely disclaimed that I am not talking about pugzergs

@"Strider Pj.2193" said:Havoc is new? Really?

Are you sure you have played as long as you say?

yes, and in scale of GW2s WvW lifespan term "havoc group" is relatively fresh - what today is called "havoc group" back then was (depending on how big havoc group you'd take for comparision) either called already zerg, or still roaming group

Havoc, whether coined that or not, has been around for quite some time. My guild has been running it for over 5 years.

a playstyle currently dubbed havoc is not new, but the term itself is.

@"sephiroth.4217" said:It almost sounds like you came about after the HoT release or around that area? Because "roamers, zergs and blobs" was something that came with HoT.

except it didn't? first use of term "blob" in community predates even living world itself. Roamers as a term is just as old, and very first bigger group stacked on tag ever was instantly dubbed "zerg"

 

here you can see example of established use of both term roamers and blob at least month prior to HoT, which is about month too early to be able to call it out as "something that came WITH HoT - would look up older use of those terms on YT, if not for the fact that I don;t have that much free time at my hands.....

 

[Shagaliscious.6281]

@Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

@Shagaliscious.6281 said:

it is not perfect but it is better for the war score than someone who does effectively nothing. because ya know at least you have the score ticking for 5 minutes of camps invul timer (and as far as my experience goes so far when borderland is in those hours where most of people online are pip farmers those two camps are flipped back and forth as soon as invul goes off.... meaning at least both sides involed has similar PPT from said camp AND it denies enemy to upgrade this cap to get more advantages of it - sure defending it so you can upgrade would be preferable, but even this is still better than, well nothing)

If a camp constantly gets flipped, you get 1 tick every 10ish minutes, which is minuscule if you would actually guard the camp, upgrade the camp and the tower that the yaks go to. Letting it constantly flip is literally letting 2 objectives never tier up, because you want your pips. If you actually care about the war score, that's what you should be doing, not farming pips. If all you want to do is farm pips, you shouldn't care about some duelers playing the game they want to play.

and because I said those people are more usefull to the server than duelers doing nothing means now I'm one of them right? ;)

If you are pip farming rather than guarding a camp and trying to upgrade it and a tower, you care about the warscore just a tad more than a dueler. So, either you hate people that don't play to improve your warscore, meaning you should hate duelers and pip farmers, or you are ok with people letting objectives get flipped so they can flip it back for participation, in which case, I don't understand why you would not be ok with duelers.

[Strider Pj.2193]

@Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

@Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:Christ... you sound like there's people are halfway across the mini map. When a zerg gets bombed some people do get caught out or feaered the wrong way while their main zerg is going the other. Don't tell me you stack up as if you was all magnets 100% of the time.

feared away - lack of sufficient stab coverageget cauught out of main group - movement an cohesion issue in the group.

sure our guild don't always mantain 100% perfect cohesion but when we see wipe caused by lack of discipline (and/or experience) we are not afraid to point that out and by it's name, and keep working on improving ourselves in this regard, and the most experience ones rarely move out of commanders melee radius (in which case "ganking out" anyone from the group by third party roamers is borderline impossible)

and the point stays - someone experienced in this type of combat will be more valuable in such a group more than even best of roamers "panning out his camera around to not get ganked while in the middle of 20+ group" that has very little experience in zerg maneuvers - the latter will be far more likely to be pinned out of the group and wrecked. Even if he could win 1v1 against everyone involved.

You can have all of the stability in the world, corrupts always win simply because how much is in the game right now, how do you think some of there's spell breakers get interrupted with pulsing stab/resistance and with cover boons.

if corrupts "always win" for yoru experience then I question your commanders ability to lead....

We are talking about zergs here not guild raids unless you're 1 of the builds that run 25+ and yes it is true that most experienced guys will hold hug the commander but most of them are not so easy to gank because of there class.

dunno what you are talking about I was talking about "organised mass scale wvw" - and even explictely disclaimed that I am not talking about pugzergs

@"Strider Pj.2193" said:Havoc is new? Really?

Are you sure you have played as long as you say?

yes, and in scale of GW2s WvW lifespan term "havoc group" is relatively fresh - what today is called "havoc group" back then was (depending on how big havoc group you'd take for comparision) either called already zerg, or still roaming group

Havoc, whether coined that or not, has been around for quite some time. My guild has been running it for over 5 years.

a playstyle currently dubbed havoc is not new, but the term itself is.

@"sephiroth.4217" said:It almost sounds like you came about after the HoT release or around that area? Because "roamers, zergs and blobs" was something that came with HoT.

except it didn't? first use of term "blob" in community predates even living world itself. Roamers as a term is just as old, and very first bigger group stacked on tag ever was instantly dubbed "zerg"

 

here you can see example of established use of both term roamers and blob at least month prior to HoT, which is about month too early to be able to call it out as "something that came WITH HoT - would look up older use of those terms on YT, if not for the fact that I don;t have that much free time at my hands.....

 

So we're talking terminology... really?

Duelers aren't an issue. No where near what 10-15 standing in spawn because they can't upset their guild commander.

We called it havoc back then. Just because you were maybe a little behind the times or Maybe we're on a server that was a little slow.

[Lord Trejgon.2809]

@"Shagaliscious.6281" said:If you are pip farming rather than guarding a camp and trying to upgrade it and a tower, you care about the warscore just a tad more than a dueler. So, either you hate people that don't play to improve your warscore, meaning you should hate duelers and pip farmers, or you are ok with people letting objectives get flipped so they can flip it back for participation, in which case, I don't understand why you would not be ok with duelers.

hating is strong word in here - what I said is that my main/only issue with duelers is when they occupy the slot on the map wit no intention of providing any contribution - pip farmers when they happen (and they usually happen in off times anyway) contribute "something" as opposed to nothing hence I have less issue with them there.

@"Strider Pj.2193" said:So we're talking terminology... really?

yes, really, when I mentioned havoc groups not being a thing "back then" I meant from the point of terminology and theorycrafting based around content - and back in 2013 "years ago" your group was considered either zerg if large enought or roaming group when not large enought to be considered zerg (or blob when you had 80+ players on tag)

Duelers aren't an issue. No where near what 10-15 standing in spawn because they can't upset their guild commander.

very interesting choice of word in here - not many people are capable material for a competent commander and even less usually wants to take up the mantle and responsibilities attached - so when your guild has 2 good commander and like 3 "okaish ones" who usually prefer to not lead anyway - yes you do not want to be pissing them off everytime you run with them because - lo and behold - if you'll be doing so, you'll soon have one good commander less, and those "10-15 standing in spawn" will not stand any longer than it is necessary needed for whole group to organise which usually is only locked by queue when in prime time. and once they group up and roll out they will be of much more use to the server than any dueler, has ever been

We called it havoc back then. Just because you were maybe a little behind the times or Maybe we're on a server that was a little slow.

no one on EU used term "havoc group" at least deep into 2016. I've got informed that apparently group higher than 5 but still not zerg is called havoc group somewhere in 2017, but in between I had a break so can't quarantee lack of widespread use in between. if your guild was using term havoc group before 2016 then gz for precursoring the terminology progression ;)

[Swamurabi.7890]

I wonder how many of you remember "stop violating my game mode"