please stop duelling in WvW!!

[Strider Pj.2193]

It wasn't just 'my group'. Roaming with a party of 5 was never roaming.

We called it Havoc ing as it caused.... you know.., havoc. Maybe it was a language barrier. Who knows.

But call it whatever the young cats you choose to call it: Havoc was a 'thing' from very early in the game whether you saw that or not.

[Dawdler.8521]

@"Lord Trejgon.2809" said:no one on EU used term "havoc group" at least deep into 2016. I've got informed that apparently group higher than 5 but still not zerg is called havoc group somewhere in 2017, but in between I had a break so can't quarantee lack of widespread use in between. if your guild was using term havoc group before 2016 then gz for precursoring the terminology progression ;)

"No one"...

Does a search in the archive on myself and havoc - oh I mentioned it 2014 the first time. I really didnt post much in the early days I think.Does a search on havoc in general - oh EU people mentioning it 2013 and even 2012.

"No one"...

You checked the old archived forums right?

[Strider Pj.2193]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@"Lord Trejgon.2809" said:no one on EU used term "havoc group" at least deep into 2016. I've got informed that apparently group higher than 5 but still not zerg is called havoc group somewhere in 2017, but in between I had a break so can't quarantee lack of widespread use in between. if your guild was using term havoc group before 2016 then gz for precursoring the terminology progression ;)

"No one"...

Does a search in the archive on myself and havoc

- oh I mentioned it 2014 the first time. I really didnt post much in the early days I think.

Does a search on havoc in general

- oh EU people mentioning it 2013 and even 2012.

"No one"...

You checked the

old

archived forums right?

I think Your point about HoT kinda struck a nerve.

Yeah.. I couldn't understand what he meant about Havoc being new.. then it became about the 'word'.

Moving the goalposts better than a politician.

[sephiroth.4217]

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

@Felipe.1807 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Felipe.1807 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Felipe.1807 said:I honestly believe that if this game were a little more serious, WvW dueling should be bannable offence just like Match manipulation on sPvP...but I dont even bother trying to fight people dueling anymore, cause I know my "allies" will just watch as the enemy players 1v5 me...from my experiece 60% or more of the "duelers" will kill solo players(roamers) as they pass by, 100% will happen if you try to take the sentry that they are near...this kind of behavior dont bother me anymore, but if I see in map chat that they are doing this to more players I just tag up and spawn camp them till they rage quit to other map.

If it was a little more serious, theoretically, how exactly would you tell the difference between a duel and two players engaging 1v1?

Like, theoretically, if I was in the zerg and saw a sentry thinking "I'll just take a quick detour" and meet an enemy there that also was outside his zerg, we fight and then my zerg run past but the commander ignores me and all his zerglings of course follow... can I report the entire zerg and have them banned for not helping me? Cause what they did would be classed as match manipulation, intentionally aiding a duel instead of engaging in 50v1 as the rules would stipulate they have to. Or are they suppose to report me for leaving the proximity of the zerg?

Wait, wait... As a commander, can I report and ban anyone not following me? Because you never know if he's running off to a be a dueller. This will avoid and preempt the diffuse situation above. Simply create an automated system that give you 1 minute to get within 600 range of a commander, otherwise you get banned. The timer starts ticking every time you leave the radius. Commanding pug zergs solved!!

...i mean, you see 5 people of each server circle jerking each other while 2 keep fighting...is really easy to tell who are the duelers and who is just roaming...you guys are overthinking this, is kind of ridiculous lol i know some of you like your dueling and stuff, just saying, there are better places to do that.

Like your guild hall....?

Guild Hall, Obsidian Sanctum, sPvP dueling arenas...look, we all bought the game, so we are allowed to do whatever we want, the main point I was complaining is that when duelers just watch you get ganked by the enemy, and their excuse for the behavior is cause you interrupted their duel, so its totally fair for you get ganked 1v5 while they watch and spam /laugh...like i said, you can do what you want, but just dont get angry and start sending me salty messages just cause I tagged up with the only purpose to hunt down and make the enemy duelers rage quit to other map.

Of all the years I have joined fight club, not once has anyone "rage quit" when a commander comes a long to wipe the duelers, instead mostly they follow your zerg and hurras your tail

Pretty much this....Last time a commander did that to us, we switched over to Mes and kept making the commander a Moa until he left map

[sephiroth.4217]

@"Swamurabi.7890" said:I wonder how many of you remember "stop violating my game mode"

I do...

[sephiroth.4217]

@Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

@Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:Christ... you sound like there's people are halfway across the mini map. When a zerg gets bombed some people do get caught out or feaered the wrong way while their main zerg is going the other. Don't tell me you stack up as if you was all magnets 100% of the time.

feared away - lack of sufficient stab coverageget cauught out of main group - movement an cohesion issue in the group.

sure our guild don't always mantain 100% perfect cohesion but when we see wipe caused by lack of discipline (and/or experience) we are not afraid to point that out and by it's name, and keep working on improving ourselves in this regard, and the most experience ones rarely move out of commanders melee radius (in which case "ganking out" anyone from the group by third party roamers is borderline impossible)

and the point stays - someone experienced in this type of combat will be more valuable in such a group more than even best of roamers "panning out his camera around to not get ganked while in the middle of 20+ group" that has very little experience in zerg maneuvers - the latter will be far more likely to be pinned out of the group and wrecked. Even if he could win 1v1 against everyone involved.

You can have all of the stability in the world, corrupts always win simply because how much is in the game right now, how do you think some of there's spell breakers get interrupted with pulsing stab/resistance and with cover boons.

if corrupts "always win" for yoru experience then I question your commanders ability to lead....

We are talking about zergs here not guild raids unless you're 1 of the builds that run 25+ and yes it is true that most experienced guys will hold hug the commander but most of them are not so easy to gank because of there class.

dunno what you are talking about I was talking about "organised mass scale wvw" - and even explictely disclaimed that I am not talking about pugzergs

@"Strider Pj.2193" said:Havoc is new? Really?

Are you sure you have played as long as you say?

yes, and in scale of GW2s WvW lifespan term "havoc group" is relatively fresh - what today is called "havoc group" back then was (depending on how big havoc group you'd take for comparision) either called already zerg, or still roaming group

Havoc, whether coined that or not, has been around for quite some time. My guild has been running it for over 5 years.

a playstyle currently dubbed havoc is not new, but the term itself is.

@"sephiroth.4217" said:It almost sounds like you came about after the HoT release or around that area? Because "roamers, zergs and blobs" was something that came with HoT.

except it didn't? first use of term "blob" in community predates even living world itself. Roamers as a term is just as old, and very first bigger group stacked on tag ever was instantly dubbed "zerg"

 

here you can see example of established use of both term roamers and blob at least month prior to HoT, which is about month too early to be able to call it out as "something that came WITH HoT - would look up older use of those terms on YT, if not for the fact that I don;t have that much free time at my hands.....

 

Like I said, around that area...

Its literally impossible to tell me havok guilds didnt exist until recently, as I said in my last post, I was apart of a few and Ive been around since day 1.

[Safandula.8723]

@misterman.1530 said:

@Safandula.8723 said:90‰of duels are in the same dueling spot, so stop whining and start to learn. For me dueling is a break from roaming and zerging, give 1 reason why i should t do that :p

Then you have no right to complain if you get steamrolled by a blob running past. I mean, why should they stop doing that?

U should rather ask, why most of experience commanders tell their squad to not kill duelers ;)

[Vegeta.2563]

What bothers me the most is people on a queued map sitting there having "duels" ._.

[Dawdler.8521]

@"Vegeta.2563" said:What bothers me the most is people on a queued map sitting there having "duels" ._.Can you do a little experiment for us? It wouldnt take long.

The next primetime, pick a random ABL. Then during 1 hour, travel to spawn, count the dots, then go the central island and count duelers. Do whatever for 20m, then repeat that. You should have 4 reference points listing people in spawn and people at the duel spot.

No really I'm curious, since this bothers people so much we should have the numbers to back it up and show Anet that the huge amount of duelers is a serious issue compared to the people loitering in spawn. Maybe this is a clear problem for NA that us on EU is ignoring.

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

@"Vegeta.2563" said:What bothers me the most is people on a queued map sitting there having "duels" ._.

What bothers me is a 60 person blob coming to a tower that 3 roamers are already at even though we call it on map chat, but come anyway to scale it up instead sorting out the enemy zerg.

[Aeolus.3615]

WvW uts a "pvp behavior sandbox", players are in the right not to blob and search for duels.

[Frozen.1347]

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

@"Vegeta.2563" said:What bothers me the most is people on a queued map sitting there having "duels" ._.

What bothers me is a 60 person blob coming to a tower that 3 roamers are already at even though we call it on map chat, but come anyway to scale it up instead sorting out the enemy zerg.

So much this.Huge zergs taking barely defended paper stuff or defending against a handful of players is the biggest and most common "waste of manpower" in WvW. If your zerg does something that could be done without you - you are just leeching for the rewards, not actually contributing to the score and you shouldn't complain about duelers taking up space for more "valuable" players.

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

Its funny how this thread went from "duelers should be in WvW" to "Duelers dont do squat for warscore" to a random "Havoc wasnt a term til recently" to someone getting a nerve struck due to HoT.

Havoc was def a thing. I led a havoc group years ago in WvW, then moved to leading a Calvary group (which was a term back then as well...you know it now as a zerg busting), to running a zerg, back to havoc/solo. This over the course of 3-4 servers. Getting panties in a knot over 2 people dueling is asinine. Even in life there are golden rules, things that should be that are. Its a game. Let people have fun. Annoyed getting zerged when dueling, move places. Getting annoyed when you are getting beat by duelers? Stop going where they are and/or stop interfering. Think duelers are useless? Mind your own business and do your own fun thing. Using words like Treason or Sabotage? Move along. Even monkeys learn after 1 or 2 times and move on.

Reminds me of the Be Like Bill memes. Kinda funny actually.

[TamX.1870]

To OP: In this game, as a newcomer, first things people start to teach you both in sPvP and WvW is how to avoid and escape fights. Mobility is not thought as a mean to get upper hand in the fight, but a way to reset the fight and cooldowns. For me, it sounds really odd. Is it so that the fight itself is not good enough to be enjoyable as a game content? OK, anyways, if someone like to enjoy the fight itself, does not want to escape it in hope for reinforcements and certain win, in some controlled form, why can't they? Maybe they are trying to learn the tactics to win the battles, instead of just avoid and escape all the fights?

[sarkysek.1085]

@Ayakaru.6583 said:

@sarkysek.1085 said:

@Ayakaru.6583 said:There is a time and a place for everythingWvW is

NOT

the time, and it is

NOT

the place for it.

I constantly run into fights in wvw, I see people from my server fighting people from other servers.So I join in, BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT YOU DO IN SERVER vs SERVER.The result is always; the people from my server stop fighting, and watch as I get slaughtered by the enemy.

I tell them to help me kill the enemy server's players, but they refuse, because apparantly '

i've interrupted a private fight

'.In every sense of the word, that is treason, or betrayal, or whatever word you want to give it.Newsflash, you're in WvW, there are no private fights, you are a member of your server, and if I see members of my server fighting members of other servers,I will attempt to help them kill the enemies.You are representing your server in WvW, if you don't want to WvW, then don't come into WvW maps.

There's a lobby in PvP where you can fight freely with other players to your hearts contents.

Said every PvE player ever. I suggest you learn basic WvW rules and respect them ;)

Basic wvw rules like claiming a piece of land for private fights, including the sentry on said land, and talking to everyone as if they're trespassing?

Don't like following specific gamemode rules? Feel free to leave said gamemode, you won't be missed ;)

[sephiroth.4217]

@Frozen.1347 said:

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

@"Vegeta.2563" said:What bothers me the most is people on a queued map sitting there having "duels" ._.

What bothers me is a 60 person blob coming to a tower that 3 roamers are already at even though we call it on map chat, but come anyway to scale it up instead sorting out the enemy zerg.

So much this.Huge zergs taking barely defended paper stuff or defending against a handful of players is the biggest and most common "waste of manpower" in WvW. If your zerg does something that could be done without you - you are just leeching for the rewards, not actually contributing to the score and you shouldn't complain about duelers taking up space for more "valuable" players.

The more realistic situatuon is that the tag wipes and detags and 40 players sit in spawn waiting for the next tag while simultaneously complaining that 2 or 3 duellers taking a break from roaming are hogging map space on a qued map..

I think something needs to be explained here to all the zergers.... If there are duellers, its because they have successfully cleared off all the bad players using bad cheese builds that would normally gank you on your way to the zerg and they are currently keeping the better roamers and fighters preoccupied else where rather than letting them repeatedly gank your fat ass while you attempt to run back to a tag.... Saying duellers dont help is a very narrow minded mind set.

[Ayakaru.6583]

@sarkysek.1085 said:

@Ayakaru.6583 said:

@sarkysek.1085 said:

@Ayakaru.6583 said:There is a time and a place for everythingWvW is

NOT

the time, and it is

NOT

the place for it.

I constantly run into fights in wvw, I see people from my server fighting people from other servers.So I join in, BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT YOU DO IN SERVER vs SERVER.The result is always; the people from my server stop fighting, and watch as I get slaughtered by the enemy.

I tell them to help me kill the enemy server's players, but they refuse, because apparantly '

i've interrupted a private fight

'.In every sense of the word, that is treason, or betrayal, or whatever word you want to give it.Newsflash, you're in WvW, there are no private fights, you are a member of your server, and if I see members of my server fighting members of other servers,I will attempt to help them kill the enemies.You are representing your server in WvW, if you don't want to WvW, then don't come into WvW maps.

There's a lobby in PvP where you can fight freely with other players to your hearts contents.

Said every PvE player ever. I suggest you learn basic WvW rules and respect them ;)

Basic wvw rules like claiming a piece of land for private fights, including the sentry on said land, and talking to everyone as if they're trespassing?

Don't like following specific gamemode rules? Feel free to leave said gamemode, you won't be missed ;)

Demanding monopoly on a sentry is not a rule, though. Just because its your bad habit, doesn't make it a rule.

[Tom.5914]

@> @Ayakaru.6583 said:

I constantly run into fights in wvw, I see people from my server fighting people from other servers.So I join in, BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT YOU DO IN SERVER vs SERVER.The result is always; the people from my server stop fighting, and watch as I get slaughtered by the enemy.

you are the typical honorless supernoob, unable to win 1vs1, so you play the outnumbering game in order to feel better. I hope self-deception works for you...

[Ayakaru.6583]

@Tom.5914 said:@> @Ayakaru.6583 said:

I constantly run into fights in wvw, I see people from my server fighting people from other servers.So I join in, BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT YOU DO IN SERVER vs SERVER.The result is always; the people from my server stop fighting, and watch as I get slaughtered by the enemy.

you are the typical honorless supernoob, unable to win 1vs1, so you play the outnumbering game in order to feel better. I hope self-deception works for you...

No? In wvw you fight enemies, so when i see an enemy, i fight. Sometimes i win, sometimes i lose. If i see someone else fight an enemy, i help them kill the enemy. But many times the guy i help suddenly stops fighting.

It has nothing to do with being honorless because you're supposed to kill the enemies. 2v1 makes out easier, so you have a higher chance at winning and continuing to the next enemy.

There's something about duellers and duelling that make them forget they are in wvw, and that when people play wvw on their duel zones they are suddenly honorless noobs

[Strider Pj.2193]

@Ayakaru.6583 said:

@Tom.5914 said:@> @Ayakaru.6583 said:

I constantly run into fights in wvw, I see people from my server fighting people from other servers.So I join in, BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT YOU DO IN SERVER vs SERVER.The result is always; the people from my server stop fighting, and watch as I get slaughtered by the enemy.

you are the typical honorless supernoob, unable to win 1vs1, so you play the outnumbering game in order to feel better. I hope self-deception works for you...

No? In wvw you fight enemies, so when i see an enemy, i fight. Sometimes i win, sometimes i lose. If i see someone else fight an enemy, i help them kill the enemy. But many times the guy i help suddenly stops fighting.

It has nothing to do with being honorless because you're supposed to kill the enemies. 2v1 makes out easier, so you have a higher chance at winning and continuing to the next enemy

It would seem, given the outcome you have described and what brought you to the forum, that it's not just the fact that it's a higher chance, but maybe the only chance?

It's been explained: duels take place in two main areas: south camp area of Alpine, (just south of sentry or by windmill) and just around the south wall of SMC.

If you don't like them dueling you have two main choices: attack the enemy and hope you can kill them, or move along and leave them alone.

They have the choices to beat you, die, or let you move along if you let them.

It really is that simple.

Coming here and complaining about it doesn't help.

[Ansau.7326]

@"Ayakaru.6583" said:No? In wvw you fight enemies, so when i see an enemy, i fight. Sometimes i win, sometimes i lose. If i see someone else fight an enemy, i help them kill the enemy. But many times the guy i help suddenly stops fighting.

It has nothing to do with being honorless because you're supposed to kill the enemies. 2v1 makes out easier, so you have a higher chance at winning and continuing to the next enemy.

There's something about duellers and duelling that make them forget they are in wvw, and that when people play wvw on their duel zones they are suddenly honorless noobs

This is where you get it wrong. The term "enemy" in WvW is nothing but a relative concept. Because in the end we are just random people playing in a server or another. There is as much connection between 2 unkown players in a server as with those players to any other random player. In fact, your virtual ally relation with any random player from your server is so fragile it is easily overshadowed by a mere spontaneous virtual relation of 2 players from different servers challenging themselves in a duel, let alone 2 real friends from different servers.We don't own anything to our server, nothing to its players. Our behavior is a consequence of the circumstances. You interrupt a duel of strangers, they will behave so you get screwed as you are just a stranger taking advantage this game doesn't allow to attack green names.

Because that is the real meaning of being in WvW. It's a place with such few rules, pretending to dictate how it should be played or how people should behave it's nothing but a stupid and meaningless effort.

Just so you know, there was an anet dev that made the mistake to go in a gvg and claim that wasn't the way WvW was meant to be played. Not only he got bashed by the community, anet made an offical apology and gvg is still a thing nowadays, with anet even designing areas for it.Moreover, anet devs themselves have embraced duel philosophy.

At this point, are all of you so fool to believe you even have a chance to change the fate of duelers?

PD: The real beauty of WvW is the small unique things like that anet duel. Priceless moments born from forgetting what the theoretical goal of WvW is, and letting the essence of humans play: Challenge and fun.

[Lord Trejgon.2809]

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@"Lord Trejgon.2809" said:no one on EU used term "havoc group" at least deep into 2016. I've got informed that apparently group higher than 5 but still not zerg is called havoc group somewhere in 2017, but in between I had a break so can't quarantee lack of widespread use in between. if your guild was using term havoc group before 2016 then gz for precursoring the terminology progression ;)

"No one"...

Does a search in the archive on myself and havoc

- oh I mentioned it 2014 the first time. I really didnt post much in the early days I think.

Does a search on havoc in general

- oh EU people mentioning it 2013 and even 2012.

"No one"...

You checked the

old

archived forums right?

I think Your point about HoT kinda struck a nerve.

then you think wrong it was actually funny since I'm in here since 2012.... (not exacly since launch itself tho got slightly late for that)

Yeah.. I couldn't understand what he meant about Havoc being new.. then it became about the 'word'.

I meant term havoc group as I explained above used common community to describe groups in size between 5-20 focused on taking usually undefended structures

@Strider Pj.2193 said:It wasn't just 'my group'. Roaming with a party of 5 was never roaming.

except it was in 2013....

We called it Havoc ing as it caused.... you know.., havoc. Maybe it was a language barrier. Who knows.

and ironically term havocing is not same as term havoc group, but mkay maybe in your server/guild/area/whatever people were using it long before all the rest of EU WvW communities....

But call it whatever the young cats you choose to call it: Havoc was a 'thing' from very early in the game whether you saw that or not.

"young cats" lol

(on a note I just noticed I have quoted twice the same person in reverse order of posts being made, this was not exacly intended I just pickedthe point from response fro mnotifs to respond and after that decided to scroll up and adress few others since I was making a post anyway, also note that I did mentioned "not having time at hand" and I meant it - this was a kinda busy days over here so I couldn't respond sooner to those posts, and as for digging up old archived forum - if I had time to be digging that one out I'd also give you much older reference points than a song from YT to back up that roaming and blobs were established in broader community long before HoT - but since I don't have that much of spare time at hand in this month I'm basing most of what I say in here not on digging throught archived things, but based on personal memories from that time)

@"sephiroth.4217" said:Like I said, around that area...

considering oldest build dedicated to roaming I remember dating to 2013 (beastmaster hybrid if you were curious, was very energetic ranger main myself back then) and some of first forum complaints about servers "blobbing" in wvw (mentioning specifically 80+ blobs) - yeah totally a thing that started being a thing "around HoT area"..... >.>

[Strider Pj.2193]

@Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Lord Trejgon.2809 said:no one on EU used term "havoc group" at least deep into 2016. I've got informed that apparently group higher than 5 but still not zerg is called havoc group somewhere in 2017, but in between I had a break so can't quarantee lack of widespread use in between. if your guild was using term havoc group before 2016 then gz for precursoring the terminology progression ;)

"No one"...

Does a search in the archive on myself and havoc

- oh I mentioned it 2014 the first time. I really didnt post much in the early days I think.

Does a search on havoc in general

- oh EU people mentioning it 2013 and even 2012.

"No one"...

You checked the

old

archived forums right?

I think Your point about HoT kinda struck a nerve.

then you think wrong it was actually funny since I'm in here since 2012.... (not exacly since launch itself tho got slightly late for that)

Yeah.. I couldn't understand what he meant about Havoc being new.. then it became about the 'word'.

I meant term havoc group as I explained above used common community to describe groups in size between 5-20 focused on taking usually undefended structures

@Strider Pj.2193 said:It wasn't just 'my group'. Roaming with a party of 5 was never roaming.

except it was in 2013....

We called it Havoc ing as it caused.... you know.., havoc. Maybe it was a language barrier. Who knows.

and ironically term havocing is not same as term havoc group, but mkay maybe in your server/guild/area/whatever people were using it long before all the rest of EU WvW communities....

But call it whatever the young cats you choose to call it: Havoc was a 'thing' from very early in the game whether you saw that or not.

"young cats" lol

(on a note I just noticed I have quoted twice the same person in reverse order of posts being made, this was not exacly intended I just pickedthe point from response fro mnotifs to respond and after that decided to scroll up and adress few others since I was making a post anyway, also note that I did mentioned "not having time at hand" and I meant it - this was a kinda busy days over here so I couldn't respond sooner to those posts, and as for digging up old archived forum - if I had time to be digging that one out I'd also give you much older reference points than a song from YT to back up that roaming and blobs were established in broader community long before HoT - but since I don't have that much of spare time at hand in this month I'm basing most of what I say in here not on digging throught archived things, but based on personal memories from that time)

@"sephiroth.4217" said:Like I said, around that area...

considering oldest build dedicated to roaming I remember dating to 2013 (beastmaster hybrid if you were curious, was very energetic ranger main myself back then) and some of first forum complaints about servers "blobbing" in wvw (mentioning specifically 80+ blobs) - yeah totally a thing that started being a thing "around HoT area"..... >.>

'Young cats' = kittens. Word filter.

Nah man, it's good. Being debunked is not as big of a deal as it may seem to you right now. You'll get by.

[VanHalenRules.5243]

Why doesn't everyone in their regional server that loves to duel create a guild called [DUEL] and join it, and rep it in wvw when they are dueling? One big guild for duelers so that every time you see 2 people (enemy and ally) fighting each other and they both are part of [DUEL], you know to let them do their thing.

[Celsith.2753]

@Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

and if you were ever participating in organised large scale you'd know that staying in formation is crucial in large scale

I've got over 800k kills, i'm pretty sure i've zerged a bit.