Roamers skill level

[Dawdler.8521]

@whoknocks.4935 said:

@Arlette.9684 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@whoknocks.4935 said:We were talking of the skill level of roamers which are usually 1vs1 duelists and you start talk of bm scourges with firebrands and spellbreakers, I find around more condi and hybrid mirages than deadeyes while roaming, so it's defintely meta for roaming, but you talk of zerg builds because you can't read...Ever since the condi nerfs the meta has heavily shifted to toward power. Pretty much only niche condi builds remain, aside from the scourge. At least in the EU. Condi mirages are far, far rarer than the power version of deadeyes and daredevil and at best on par with their condi version - which is also exceedingly rare compared to power thieves. I usually meet like

one

good roaming condi mirage... per matchup.

I think his misguided comment fails to acknowledge the existence of middle ground aka Hybrid. By proxy if you receive condi dmg, most players assume (wrongfully so) that it's a Condi build.

Staff is not used by hybrid players usually... or not?Sword/torch axe/pistol is the common set of hybrids and I think I can recognize both of them.

They are both very present roamers around the map.

They are still one of easiest profession to win roaming fights even in outnumbers.The condi burst can melt you if you are not built against condis.And if you are built against condis in most cases doesn't matter as well.And that's being carried by a build.

Except that build has a major flaw in that it has very limited range. It gets roflstomped by power mirages or hybrid ranged mirages at equal skill levels, plus it should be no threat to good de/dd, decent sustains should be able to deal with it and other power range such as soulbeasts should have ab upper hand, not to mention condi transfer necros.

Another flaw if they lean more towards condi is that despite the burst, mesmers actually have pretty long ramp up time - something that is bad vs good roamers that knows when and how to avoid primary damage.

As I have repeatedly said, builds has pros and cons. You just said what the pro is - the condi burst melts those not built against condi - yet you completely ignore any cons and go straight to proclaiming carried by build. Heres a secret: carried by build is situational. Obviously they are being carried vs some builds...

The last time I meet a really good clone spewing melee mirage that was definetly mechanically superior to me was literally months ago and that impromptu duel was a 3 or 4 minute long slugfest with power hybrid vs condi hybrid. I can burst a glass mesmer in seconds normally (and they can burst me) while mediocre mesmers die without me loosing any hp, it doesnt matter if they run mirage. He would have won that fight too but a guildie came along when we where both low hp and finished him just in the nick of time. Thats WvW for ya.

[Clownmug.8357]

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

@Klypto.1703 said:I believe we need to insert a detox facility for all necros and other bandwagon types. As well there were so many necros our deadeyes cannot get the antidote to them fast enough so anet deadeyes are too weak they need to be buffed. We need the ability to backstab with a greatsword so we can backstab 20 people at once. As well we need skill because we are bad players so I do believe our backstab multiplier should go up to around being able to do 200k backstabs because they do not like 20k backstabs. Heck we need that necro treatment where we auto backstab someone if they press any buttons to attack us that teleports us right behind them so we don't have to do it and invulnerable while we do it and also they don't like shadow meld so can we get a shadowsphere that prevents light from getting in so you see nothing at all on your screen and have that automatically trigger just like necros stuff did as we teleport back to our starting position. That'll be great and they will really love you for doing that too.

Also the next elite spec for thief is going to be called the Shadowmancer. Its going to have no target cap and use illusions and shadows together to cc and confuse enemies. It's going to be a backstabbing mesmer that backstabs with a scepter. Each time you use combine a shadow and illusion with your eye it makes a shadow clone of a random type one can teleport around doing attacks, another can be your doppelganger that uses all the skills you have and traits, and then one that when its killed it spreads to every shadow in a radius and holds everyone in place paralyzing them. While paralyzed it makes you eat bad foods you would never ever eat and makes you pull all of the tactics at every objective you own. Its going to be called the Save Your Elder Dragon Friend expansion where you find out the deep sea dragon is a cute little dragon that loves to be hugged and helps things but its being attacked by mr meany dragon so you have to stop them both from dying but you can only do it on a human because its near cantha.

What in the actual kitten are you even talking about

I think he's trying to give Karl new ideas.

[Odinens.5920]

I've only recently started learning how to be a roamer. Everything about roaming is different than being in havoc/zerg groups, and it takes a bit of mental re-programming and practice to be really good at it. To be completely honest I don't know that I'll ever be decent enough at it to be considered skilled, but it is more fun than zerg fighting sometimes, so I'll keep workin at it.

also this:

@EremiteAngel.9765 said:

@ArchonWing.9480 said:

@EremiteAngel.9765 said:

Not so much for WvW these days haha...feeling less and less competitive as age and health catches up. I prefer running around with the Zerg or friends more and just enjoy a more back-seat relaxed role XD

The older I get the less effective I feel.

[Arlette.9684]

@whoknocks.4935 said:

@Arlette.9684 said:

@whoknocks.4935 said:

@Arlette.9684 said:

@whoknocks.4935 said:

@Arlette.9684 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@whoknocks.4935 said:We were talking of the skill level of roamers which are usually 1vs1 duelists and you start talk of bm scourges with firebrands and spellbreakers, I find around more condi and hybrid mirages than deadeyes while roaming, so it's defintely meta for roaming, but you talk of zerg builds because you can't read...Ever since the condi nerfs the meta has heavily shifted to toward power. Pretty much only niche condi builds remain, aside from the scourge. At least in the EU. Condi mirages are far, far rarer than the power version of deadeyes and daredevil and at best on par with their condi version - which is also exceedingly rare compared to power thieves. I usually meet like

one

good roaming condi mirage... per matchup.

I think his misguided comment fails to acknowledge the existence of middle ground aka Hybrid. By proxy if you receive condi dmg, most players assume (wrongfully so) that it's a Condi build.

Staff is not used by hybrid players usually... or not?Sword/torch axe/pistol is the common set of hybrids and I think I can recognize both of them.

They are both very present roamers around the map.

They are still one of easiest profession to win roaming fights even in outnumbers.The condi burst can melt you if you are not built against condis.And if you are built against condis in most cases doesn't matter as well.And that's being carried by a build.

So is playing Warrior since launch, but I don't see you complaining about those. :wink:

Who is playing warrior since launch?

Now who has 0 reading skills? :lol:

So is playing warrior. Find me the grammatical sense of this sentence please, then I will try answer if the question actually has a logic sense.

Nothing to do with grammar, it's called subtext. Try it sometimes :smiley:

[Lord Trejgon.2809]

@"Strider Pj.2193" said:It's a sign of respect!

At least a that's how I take it.

Laughing is that they enjoyed the encounter.

Jumping means they are celebrating that you put up a good fight.

Seriously though, the less people get concerned (and I am not saying you, just people in general) about perceived BM activities, understand it means nothing if you don't perceive it as a problem.

I mean I kinda undestand the reason why those people are doing it but I can't understand how it is supposed to achieve assumed goal

I mean if you want to grief with use of sieges dropping them ontop of downed allies achieves it, dropping them on you enemy tho as far as my imagination stretches can only "grief" your allies by denying stomp and forcing cleave.

so how exacly does having siege bundle dropped onto you by your enemy is supposed to be griefing?(on a note I have never seen anyoen actually doing that yet)

[Dawdler.8521]

@Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

@"Strider Pj.2193" said:It's a sign of respect!

At least a that's how I take it.

Laughing is that they enjoyed the encounter.

Jumping means they are celebrating that you put up a good fight.

Seriously though, the less people get concerned (and I am not saying you, just people in general) about perceived BM activities, understand it means nothing if you don't

perceive

it as a problem.

I mean I kinda undestand the reason why those people are doing it but I can't understand how it is supposed to achieve assumed goal

I mean if you want to grief with use of sieges dropping them ontop of downed allies achieves it, dropping them on you enemy tho as far as my imagination stretches can only "grief" your allies by denying stomp and forcing cleave.

so how exacly does having siege bundle dropped onto you by your enemy is supposed to be griefing?(on a note I have never seen anyoen actually doing that yet)

90% of siege drops are when 30+ zerglings have already killed 1 roamer, at which point denying stomps or forcing cleave seems kind of redundant.

[whoknocks.4935]

@Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

@"Strider Pj.2193" said:It's a sign of respect!

At least a that's how I take it.

Laughing is that they enjoyed the encounter.

Jumping means they are celebrating that you put up a good fight.

Seriously though, the less people get concerned (and I am not saying you, just people in general) about perceived BM activities, understand it means nothing if you don't

perceive

it as a problem.

I mean I kinda undestand the reason why those people are doing it but I can't understand how it is supposed to achieve assumed goal

I mean if you want to grief with use of sieges dropping them ontop of downed allies achieves it, dropping them on you enemy tho as far as my imagination stretches can only "grief" your allies by denying stomp and forcing cleave.

so how exacly does having siege bundle dropped onto you by your enemy is supposed to be griefing?(on a note I have never seen anyoen actually doing that yet)

It's the opposite of sign of respect xD Even worse is jumping and laughing.

I usually siege only those people who gank me 2vs1, laugh at me, then I find them alone in a 1vs1 and they die, they deserve the bm siege; and it's funny how 90% of them immediately whisper me bad words xD

It is a teasing tactic to make you mad because you got downed and have to go back to spawn. No respect at all, respect is bowing and let the enemy ress.

[Strider Pj.2193]

@whoknocks.4935 said:

@Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

@"Strider Pj.2193" said:It's a sign of respect!

At least a that's how I take it.

Laughing is that they enjoyed the encounter.

Jumping means they are celebrating that you put up a good fight.

Seriously though, the less people get concerned (and I am not saying you, just people in general) about perceived BM activities, understand it means nothing if you don't

perceive

it as a problem.

I mean I kinda undestand the reason why those people are doing it but I can't understand how it is supposed to achieve assumed goal

I mean if you want to grief with use of sieges dropping them ontop of downed allies achieves it, dropping them on you enemy tho as far as my imagination stretches can only "grief" your allies by denying stomp and forcing cleave.

so how exacly does having siege bundle dropped onto you by your enemy is supposed to be griefing?(on a note I have never seen anyoen actually doing that yet)

It's the opposite of sign of respect xD Even worse is jumping and laughing.

I usually siege only those people who gank me 2vs1, laugh at me, then I find them alone in a 1vs1 and they die, they deserve the bm siege; and it's funny how 90% of them immediately whisper me bad words xD

It is a teasing tactic to make you mad because you got downed and have to go back to spawn. No respect at all, respect is bowing and let the enemy ress.

See, I take it as respect. If they feel the need to do that on me, I've gotten under their skin somehow.

How it's intended doesn't matter. How it's perceived? That's a personal choice.

:smile:

[Lord Trejgon.2809]

@Dawdler.8521 said:90% of siege drops are when 30+ zerglings have already killed 1 roamer, at which point denying stomps or forcing cleave seems kind of redundant.

which still leads us back to the point of - what's the point of doing it.... (other than wasting siege blueprints but these things can be cheap as heck so if dude has too much of them whom am I to tell him how to spend them)

[whoknocks.4935]

@Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:90% of siege drops are when 30+ zerglings have already killed 1 roamer, at which point denying stomps or forcing cleave seems kind of redundant.

which still leads us back to the point of - what's the point of doing it.... (other than wasting siege blueprints but these things can be cheap as heck so if dude has too much of them whom am I to tell him how to spend them)

It's a provocation action, if a player get killed over and over and he receives sieges he will end up leave the map or quit the game.

I always drop a siege when someone gank me 1vs2 and I end up killing both players, they usually add me and start calling me hacker, noob, and more bad words.So yeah siege is such a teasing act to do.

Since there are not taunts animations in this game we have sieges, emotes, jumping on the body to show to the player he was humiliated.

If I am in a duo and one single guy end up killing me and my server mate, he has all the rights to drop siege on us.What I don't like are those noobs ganking squads of 2 up to 10 people who go 10vs1, chase you half the map until they get you and drop siege on you.What's the point of it? Even a blind monkey can do kill 2vs1 3vs1 4vs1 etc. You have nothing to siege, you should siege yourself instead for how bad you are.

Not to mention in 90% of the cases you find those gankers alone in a 1vs1 and they die miserably.

Maybe that's why roaming skill level dropped, people prefer to go for easy cheap kills instead of trying the hard life of solo roaming.And if you always get kills with help, you will become worse at solo 1vs1s roaming fights...

[Silinsar.6298]

This is just another "everything used to be better" topic. Hint: it wasn't. It was just the same years ago, only the meta changed.

@"Silinsar.6298" said:

It may be me, but imo roaming is just as good / bad as it ever was.

Are there bad players running rewarding builds that require little experience and give solid results? Yes.Are there good players running such builds? Yes.Are there players who run original / non meta builds? Yes.Are there respectable gamers you look forward to meet again? Yes.Are there immature trolls that disturb duels / jump / teabag / flame / report you for beating them / gank outmanned / hack and / or any combination of these? Oh yes.Will people team up to kill you? Yes.Is the behavior of players somehow related to the server they’re on? No, hardly ever.

The only thing that changed is that there are more people that can somewhat handle the game now. Everyone left in WvW usually has at least a bit of an idea how not to instant die or runs a build that makes it hard to do. Thus fighting outmanned often seems harder now.

That quote's from a similar thread from more than 3 years ago.

[sostronk.8167]

• Game is not balanced around 1v1.
• One build can be extremely strong vs one type of build and extremely weak vs another type of build. This gives incentive to run a build that can disengage from fights easily (high mobility).
• 1v1 is quite rewarding to high survivability builds at present making most fights a waste of time IE I could spend two minutes trying to kill that Mesmer for 1 point or I could spend that 2 minutes flipping a camp, flipping two sentries and killing 2 yaks for substanitally more points and a tactical advantage for my team. If you think wasting your time on the Mesmer is the better option, you are not playing the game the way it was intended.

TLDR: you are playing the game wrong if you think you are gauging your pvp skill in a 1v1 scenario in WvW. You are better off in sPvP.

[KrHome.1920]

@"Klypto.1703" said:I believe we need to insert a detox facility for all necros and other bandwagon types. As well there were so many necros our deadeyes cannot get the antidote to them fast enough so anet deadeyes are too weak they need to be buffed. We need the ability to backstab with a greatsword so we can backstab 20 people at once. As well we need skill because we are bad players so I do believe our backstab multiplier should go up to around being able to do 200k backstabs because they do not like 20k backstabs. Heck we need that necro treatment where we auto backstab someone if they press any buttons to attack us that teleports us right behind them so we don't have to do it and invulnerable while we do it and also they don't like shadow meld so can we get a shadowsphere that prevents light from getting in so you see nothing at all on your screen and have that automatically trigger just like necros stuff did as we teleport back to our starting position. That'll be great and they will really love you for doing that too.

Also the next elite spec for thief is going to be called the Shadowmancer. Its going to have no target cap and use illusions and shadows together to cc and confuse enemies. It's going to be a backstabbing mesmer that backstabs with a scepter. Each time you use combine a shadow and illusion with your eye it makes a shadow clone of a random type one can teleport around doing attacks, another can be your doppelganger that uses all the skills you have and traits, and then one that when its killed it spreads to every shadow in a radius and holds everyone in place paralyzing them. While paralyzed it makes you eat bad foods you would never ever eat and makes you pull all of the tactics at every objective you own. Its going to be called the Save Your Elder Dragon Friend expansion where you find out the deep sea dragon is a cute little dragon that loves to be hugged and helps things but its being attacked by mr meany dragon so you have to stop them both from dying but you can only do it on a human because its near cantha.You are a bit late. Scourge (guess that's what you meant with "necro") is killable without a single condi cleanse in your utility bar. Its pressure is nonexistent anymore. Currently it's more of a nuissance for its teleport-rez potential (and to a lesser extent for its area denial) than for its damage.

Following your logic ANets next step would be to nerf deadeye to a stealth rezbot with CC traps (because class theme!). Sounds better than its current oneshot state to be honest.

[Odinens.5920]

@KrHome.1920 said:

@"Klypto.1703" said:

You are a bit late. Scourge (guess that's what you meant with "necro") is killable without a single condi cleanse in your utility bar. Its pressure is nonexistent anymore. Currently it's more of a nuissance for its teleport-rez potential (and to a lesser extent for its area denial) than for its damage.

Following your logic ANets next step would be to nerf deadeye to a stealth rezbot with CC traps (because class theme!). Sounds better than its current oneshot state to be honest.

Apparently you don't come across many decent power build scourges.

[Tails.9372]

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:FreshNew, physically disabled, may be a friend playing the account. Many possibilities but typically just a new player learning the game. Some are keyboard turners, others appear to have a handle on walking and dodging but die about as easily as an NPC. Better to just /wave and let them carry on with their adventure assuming they don't attack you first!Common player.I have to disagree on that one, at least in regards to them being a common roamer, what you described here may be applicable to the PvE players doing dailies for GoB but you almost never see them roaming around the map as they usually stay close to their respective WPs (same goes for "below average" to a slightly lesser degree).

[Klypto.1703]

Condi necro's being carried by the broken insta cast traits + server bandwagon stacking and you have yourself worlds full of players with no idea how to play smaller scale combat so they wait at their spawn until theres 50 people to leave with.

[Adamarc.7463]

@Klypto.1703 said:Condi necro's being carried by the broken insta cast traits + server bandwagon stacking and you have yourself worlds full of players with no idea how to play smaller scale combat so they wait at their spawn until theres 50 people to leave with.

There's just the small issue of the game mode favoring blobs more than ever before, and many players feeling that certain specs are not fun to fight......

[duillyn.2697]

Personally I feel there are so many crutch builds currently that it can be hard to actually know the skill level of some players.

[Arlette.9684]

@duillyn.2697 said:Personally I feel there are so many crutch builds currently that it can be hard to actually know the skill level of some players.

Au contraire, skill level is very easy to spot when mirror matching.

[Prinzsecond.4863]

My experience of the past months was that approx. 10% of the roamers are skilled (=interesting duels possible), the rest was probably either just learning or alone on their way to the next zerg.However, even encountering roamers became so rare. Small Groups are much more often met and they chase then 4v1 over the whole map.... so it also became hard to even have the opportunities to fight good roamers.

[Hex.2579]

to be frank, a small group of roamers now is like >10 of them. it's not fun anymore to roam when you get run over. even if you can do a lot of things they'd regret for tapping you, but you're still way way outnumbered and die anyways.i do agree the skills cap has gone down for roamers. not to mention there are more cheesy one shot builds, so it takes some fun away as a roamer. i haven't roamed since the introduction to system reward. more folks joining and everything is in greater numbers.i hope it changes after gvg and alliances.

[geist.4126]

Arenanet pretty much killed roaming with that stealth system and oneshot abilities that you can't really tank because you'll still lose the fights in the long run. You could find a build with absurd heal and tanky but why should you roam on this? The new meta is the most stupid this game has seen in all the years.