About our Policy on RMT

[Daddicus.6128]

@Taygus.4571 said:

@"Daddicus.6128" said:I simply can't understand what everybody is up in arms about. The policy is, in my opinion, nearly perfect. There is no "loophole" unless players have this happening OFTEN. So far, there have been exactly TWO instances of this that we know about (in this thread and the reddit thread). And, the one in this thread was clearly suspended for CORRECT reasons.

Get a mail from an unknown party containing something quite valuable? Follow the policy and report it. What's so hard to understand about that?

If you accept the gold or item from someone unknown to you, you fully deserve what you will get: suspended or worse.

Stop throwing out hypothetical situations as if they're really happening with frequency.

Gaile,

keep up the good work

. And, please pass that comment on to the others involved in making and maintaining this policy.

NOTE: I said "nearly perfect" above. What I mean is I think one should KEEP the email until after the support ticket has been resolved. Report it, keep it, and make sure support knows about it. Then, delete it later (or, let support delete it). But, it's your game, and I accept the policy as it is. This paragraph is just a suggestion.

So people have to be wary of every donation they get?

I'll post the same question that i asked Gaile..how are we supposed to know that a mail contains RMT?

---

They should simply remove any RMT gold(even if it puts accounts in tye negative) and leave it at that.. no risk of ban but if something is RMT, people paid money for nothing...but no major harm done to unsuspecting players.

Yes, we should be wary of every donation from unknown parties. What's so hard about that? How many "donations" do you receive from unknown people?

I have NEVER received one from someone I didn't know (except when I did something for someone, like porting to the end of a JP). And, I fully expect I never will. But, if I do, rest assured that support will be contacted BEFORE I accept it.

And, I fail to understand why anybody would do otherwise.

[Taygus.4571]

@Daddicus.6128 said:

@Taygus.4571 said:

@Daddicus.6128 said:I simply can't understand what everybody is up in arms about. The policy is, in my opinion, nearly perfect. There is no "loophole" unless players have this happening OFTEN. So far, there have been exactly TWO instances of this that we know about (in this thread and the reddit thread). And, the one in this thread was clearly suspended for CORRECT reasons.

Get a mail from an unknown party containing something quite valuable? Follow the policy and report it. What's so hard to understand about that?

If you accept the gold or item from someone unknown to you, you fully deserve what you will get: suspended or worse.

Stop throwing out hypothetical situations as if they're really happening with frequency.

Gaile,

keep up the good work

. And, please pass that comment on to the others involved in making and maintaining this policy.

NOTE: I said "nearly perfect" above. What I mean is I think one should KEEP the email until after the support ticket has been resolved. Report it, keep it, and make sure support knows about it. Then, delete it later (or, let support delete it). But, it's your game, and I accept the policy as it is. This paragraph is just a suggestion.

So people have to be wary of every donation they get?

I'll post the same question that i asked Gaile..how are we supposed to know that a mail contains RMT?

---

They should simply remove any RMT gold(even if it puts accounts in tye negative) and leave it at that.. no risk of ban but if something is RMT, people paid money for nothing...but no major harm done to unsuspecting players.

Yes, we should be wary of every donation from unknown parties. What's so hard about that? How many "donations" do you receive from unknown people?

I have NEVER received one from someone I didn't know (except when I did something for someone, like porting to the end of a JP). And, I fully expect I never will. But, if I do, rest assured that support will be contacted BEFORE I accept it.

And, I fail to understand why anybody would do otherwise.

Loads from jp porting actually.

WvW comms and HP run comms also recieve alot and often quite high in value.... do you really know every player im your squad?

Then there's streamers who recieve quite a bit as well.

Why should we be afraid to lose out accounts because some jerk decided to send RMT? Thats not good policy, why are you defending it?

[Hotwingz.1627]

Sounds to me like the solution is simple.

Report every coin you receive by mail for investigation.

Malicious compliance at its finest.

[Blocki.4931]

@mtpelion.4562 said:The only place in the RMT policy page that even comes close to referencing actions against an account is here:

If the account is directly linked to RMT—by way of evidence that amounts to more than just receiving items—it may be subject to further account action.

Ergo, if a troll buys gold to send to you in an attempt to get you banned, you will not be banned because there is no way to directly link that chain of events to you buying from an RMT.

Shush, people don't care about making sense on this topic

[Daddicus.6128]

Uh, yes, if I have a squad, I know them all. By definition, though, not because they're "friends" or anything. After all, they're in my squad.

And, I specifically used JP porting as an example of acceptable receipt of goodies. However, there are other actions, like helping someone with an event.

Any "donation" when there's not a reason is suspicious. It's highly suspicious, in fact.

[Healix.5819]

The funny thing is, they didn't include trading in GW2 because it was problem in GW1, but by allowing items to be sent through the mail, they only ended up making it easier to scam people, and in this case, the inability to prove their intentions. If GW2 had trading instead of mail attachments, this situation wouldn't be possible since you'd have to actually meet up with the player to trade with them, which leaves an obvious trail for ArenaNet to follow. Trading through the mail makes it possible to filter however, so if they stopped banning for this, they could instead prevent it from ever being received by delaying mail with attachments over a certain value by 1 week to give them enough time to determine if it's RMT or not.

[Unknown.3976]

@Taygus.4571 said:

@Daddicus.6128 said:

@Taygus.4571 said:

@Daddicus.6128 said:I simply can't understand what everybody is up in arms about. The policy is, in my opinion, nearly perfect. There is no "loophole" unless players have this happening OFTEN. So far, there have been exactly TWO instances of this that we know about (in this thread and the reddit thread). And, the one in this thread was clearly suspended for CORRECT reasons.

Get a mail from an unknown party containing something quite valuable? Follow the policy and report it. What's so hard to understand about that?

If you accept the gold or item from someone unknown to you, you fully deserve what you will get: suspended or worse.

Stop throwing out hypothetical situations as if they're really happening with frequency.

Gaile,

keep up the good work

. And, please pass that comment on to the others involved in making and maintaining this policy.

NOTE: I said "nearly perfect" above. What I mean is I think one should KEEP the email until after the support ticket has been resolved. Report it, keep it, and make sure support knows about it. Then, delete it later (or, let support delete it). But, it's your game, and I accept the policy as it is. This paragraph is just a suggestion.

So people have to be wary of every donation they get?

I'll post the same question that i asked Gaile..how are we supposed to know that a mail contains RMT?

---

They should simply remove any RMT gold(even if it puts accounts in tye negative) and leave it at that.. no risk of ban but if something is RMT, people paid money for nothing...but no major harm done to unsuspecting players.

Yes, we should be wary of every donation from unknown parties. What's so hard about that? How many "donations" do you receive from unknown people?

I have NEVER received one from someone I didn't know (except when I did something for someone, like porting to the end of a JP). And, I fully expect I never will. But, if I do, rest assured that support will be contacted BEFORE I accept it.

And, I fail to understand why anybody would do otherwise.

Loads from jp porting actually.

WvW comms and HP run comms also recieve alot and often quite high in value.... do you really know every player im your squad?

Then there's streamers who recieve quite a bit as well.

Why should we be afraid to lose out accounts because some jerk decided to send RMT? Thats not good policy, why are you defending it?

But no one lost their account to this manner of griefing, Europaea (the OP on reddit) wasn't even banned, this matter is way overblown. It's fearmongering, mass hysteria started by one man, just one man.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

I've never investigated an RMT site, but can you buy Gold in amounts under 100? Under 200? Under 50? If not, how or why would one be concerned about receiving 1 Gold, 5 Gold, 20 Gold? Even if it was from someone you did not know?If the proposition is that someone would buy the RMT Gold and have it sent to their own account, so they can split it up, and send a small amount to your account, well, then that would be kind of silly on their part, risking their own account, no?It seems far-fetched to say one would have to worry about receiving tips from portaling in JPs.

[Laila Lightness.8742]

Or simplier dont trust mail from people you dont know.

[CensoredOtaku.5432]

This unfortunately is just PR fluff and does nothing to address what happened nor resolves the flaw in your CS loop. I won't be logging into Guild Wars 2 nor buying future products again until this is resolved.

[Blocki.4931]

@CensoredOtaku.5432 said:This unfortunately is just PR fluff and does nothing to address what happened nor resolves the flaw in your CS loop. I won't be logging into Guild Wars 2 nor buying future products again until this is resolved.

There's no loop though

[Taygus.4571]

@Unknown.3976 said:

@Taygus.4571 said:

@Daddicus.6128 said:

@Taygus.4571 said:

@Daddicus.6128 said:I simply can't understand what everybody is up in arms about. The policy is, in my opinion, nearly perfect. There is no "loophole" unless players have this happening OFTEN. So far, there have been exactly TWO instances of this that we know about (in this thread and the reddit thread). And, the one in this thread was clearly suspended for CORRECT reasons.

Get a mail from an unknown party containing something quite valuable? Follow the policy and report it. What's so hard to understand about that?

If you accept the gold or item from someone unknown to you, you fully deserve what you will get: suspended or worse.

Stop throwing out hypothetical situations as if they're really happening with frequency.

Gaile,

keep up the good work

. And, please pass that comment on to the others involved in making and maintaining this policy.

NOTE: I said "nearly perfect" above. What I mean is I think one should KEEP the email until after the support ticket has been resolved. Report it, keep it, and make sure support knows about it. Then, delete it later (or, let support delete it). But, it's your game, and I accept the policy as it is. This paragraph is just a suggestion.

So people have to be wary of every donation they get?

I'll post the same question that i asked Gaile..how are we supposed to know that a mail contains RMT?

---

They should simply remove any RMT gold(even if it puts accounts in tye negative) and leave it at that.. no risk of ban but if something is RMT, people paid money for nothing...but no major harm done to unsuspecting players.

Yes, we should be wary of every donation from unknown parties. What's so hard about that? How many "donations" do you receive from unknown people?

I have NEVER received one from someone I didn't know (except when I did something for someone, like porting to the end of a JP). And, I fully expect I never will. But, if I do, rest assured that support will be contacted BEFORE I accept it.

And, I fail to understand why anybody would do otherwise.

Loads from jp porting actually.

WvW comms and HP run comms also recieve alot and often quite high in value.... do you really know every player im your squad?

Then there's streamers who recieve quite a bit as well.

Why should we be afraid to lose out accounts because some jerk decided to send RMT? Thats not good policy, why are you defending it?

But no one lost their account to this manner of griefing, Europaea (the OP on reddit) wasn't even banned, this matter is way overblown. It's fearmongering, mass hysteria started by one man, just one man.

But if the griefer sends another RMT to him, he could be, that's kinda the point here. Anet Support have said as much and have not denied it.

[Taygus.4571]

@"Daddicus.6128" said:Uh, yes, if I have a squad, I know them all. By definition,

I take it you don't do public squads?I find it hard to believe that someone could run a squad of 50 for say HP run and care to remember everyone in it... what about a week later, would you still remember?And even if you could, do you really think it's the norm.

Ive sent gold to comms weeks after following them because I didn't have the gold at the time..should these comms be wary of receiving "random" gold because it was 2 weeks after the run?

What about streamers? who are known to receieve alot.

[Blocki.4931]

@Taygus.4571 said:

@Unknown.3976 said:

@Taygus.4571 said:

@Daddicus.6128 said:

@Taygus.4571 said:

@Daddicus.6128 said:I simply can't understand what everybody is up in arms about. The policy is, in my opinion, nearly perfect. There is no "loophole" unless players have this happening OFTEN. So far, there have been exactly TWO instances of this that we know about (in this thread and the reddit thread). And, the one in this thread was clearly suspended for CORRECT reasons.

Get a mail from an unknown party containing something quite valuable? Follow the policy and report it. What's so hard to understand about that?

If you accept the gold or item from someone unknown to you, you fully deserve what you will get: suspended or worse.

Stop throwing out hypothetical situations as if they're really happening with frequency.

Gaile,

keep up the good work

. And, please pass that comment on to the others involved in making and maintaining this policy.

NOTE: I said "nearly perfect" above. What I mean is I think one should KEEP the email until after the support ticket has been resolved. Report it, keep it, and make sure support knows about it. Then, delete it later (or, let support delete it). But, it's your game, and I accept the policy as it is. This paragraph is just a suggestion.

So people have to be wary of every donation they get?

I'll post the same question that i asked Gaile..how are we supposed to know that a mail contains RMT?

---

They should simply remove any RMT gold(even if it puts accounts in tye negative) and leave it at that.. no risk of ban but if something is RMT, people paid money for nothing...but no major harm done to unsuspecting players.

Yes, we should be wary of every donation from unknown parties. What's so hard about that? How many "donations" do you receive from unknown people?

I have NEVER received one from someone I didn't know (except when I did something for someone, like porting to the end of a JP). And, I fully expect I never will. But, if I do, rest assured that support will be contacted BEFORE I accept it.

And, I fail to understand why anybody would do otherwise.

Loads from jp porting actually.

WvW comms and HP run comms also recieve alot and often quite high in value.... do you really know every player im your squad?

Then there's streamers who recieve quite a bit as well.

Why should we be afraid to lose out accounts because some jerk decided to send RMT? Thats not good policy, why are you defending it?

But no one lost their account to this manner of griefing, Europaea (the OP on reddit) wasn't even banned, this matter is way overblown. It's fearmongering, mass hysteria started by one man, just one man.

But if the griefer sends another RMT to him, he could be, that's kinda the point here. Anet Support have said as much and have not denied it.

No, that's simply not true.

And to top it off he just has to reject any mails with gold he didn't ask for, it's not hard.

[Linken.6345]

@thrag.9740 said:

@Blocki.4931 said:No, the game gives you a direct option so you have to use it. It't not rocket science, it's just an unnecessary step that you shouldn't take for obvious reasons.

But this is a waste of time, have fun arguing about this silly thing.Also this quote same response from me below:@Linken.6345 said:They accepted said gold and then returned it there is a return to sender in the mail no need to grab it into account to then send it back.

EditDo it have to say click the return to sender button instead of accept mail then return?

If you grab the gold its on your account in said mail its still in limbo.

Thats great except both of you are choosing to ignore that Anet took the gold out of OP's wallet before OP accepted that gold, so if OP just hits 'return to sender' or returns it with a response, they are still down 200 gold. I.e following Anet's stated instructions, OP still loses 200 gold.

Again this is all if you believe the reddit threat, but considering the reddit thread is from a moderately popular player with lots of picture evidence, and ANet's response is a corporate, 'see our TOS', I believe OP over Anet.

Noted I missed that if anet did so they should return since they can see in logs the person returned the gold to sender, even tho they did it the wrong way by accepting then returning instead off return to sender straight away.

[CensoredOtaku.5432]

@Unknown.3976 said:But no one lost their account to this manner of griefing, Europaea (the OP on reddit) wasn't even banned, this matter is way overblown. It's fearmongering, mass hysteria started by one man, just one man.Overblown? Perhaps a smidge. But it shows the flaw in their system where their CS staff doesn't have proper documentation on how to handle situations regarding this exploit. Without a properly trained staff people get stuck in loops unfairly.

[Taygus.4571]

@Blocki.4931 said:

@Taygus.4571 said:

@Unknown.3976 said:

@Taygus.4571 said:

@Daddicus.6128 said:

@Taygus.4571 said:

@Daddicus.6128 said:I simply can't understand what everybody is up in arms about. The policy is, in my opinion, nearly perfect. There is no "loophole" unless players have this happening OFTEN. So far, there have been exactly TWO instances of this that we know about (in this thread and the reddit thread). And, the one in this thread was clearly suspended for CORRECT reasons.

Get a mail from an unknown party containing something quite valuable? Follow the policy and report it. What's so hard to understand about that?

If you accept the gold or item from someone unknown to you, you fully deserve what you will get: suspended or worse.

Stop throwing out hypothetical situations as if they're really happening with frequency.

Gaile,

keep up the good work

. And, please pass that comment on to the others involved in making and maintaining this policy.

NOTE: I said "nearly perfect" above. What I mean is I think one should KEEP the email until after the support ticket has been resolved. Report it, keep it, and make sure support knows about it. Then, delete it later (or, let support delete it). But, it's your game, and I accept the policy as it is. This paragraph is just a suggestion.

So people have to be wary of every donation they get?

I'll post the same question that i asked Gaile..how are we supposed to know that a mail contains RMT?

---

They should simply remove any RMT gold(even if it puts accounts in tye negative) and leave it at that.. no risk of ban but if something is RMT, people paid money for nothing...but no major harm done to unsuspecting players.

Yes, we should be wary of every donation from unknown parties. What's so hard about that? How many "donations" do you receive from unknown people?

I have NEVER received one from someone I didn't know (except when I did something for someone, like porting to the end of a JP). And, I fully expect I never will. But, if I do, rest assured that support will be contacted BEFORE I accept it.

And, I fail to understand why anybody would do otherwise.

Loads from jp porting actually.

WvW comms and HP run comms also recieve alot and often quite high in value.... do you really know every player im your squad?

Then there's streamers who recieve quite a bit as well.

Why should we be afraid to lose out accounts because some jerk decided to send RMT? Thats not good policy, why are you defending it?

But no one lost their account to this manner of griefing, Europaea (the OP on reddit) wasn't even banned, this matter is way overblown. It's fearmongering, mass hysteria started by one man, just one man.

But if the griefer sends another RMT to him, he could be, that's kinda the point here. Anet Support have said as much and have not denied it.

No, that's simply not true.

And to top it off he just has to reject any mails with gold he didn't ask for, it's not hard.

But if we believe him and Anet hasn't denied his claims.(lile they have with other pwople in the past)..they warned him before he even knew about the gold....

They then told him to avoid it in the future.And that if it reoccured he risked a ban.

How do you avoid being mailed RMT gold?..... you don't.

That should not be sufficient enough to flag an account.

[omgdracula.6345]

This is way overblown and such a non issue it is crazy. I am not saying Anets policy is perfect by any means but it is fine. The fact of the matter is none of the people who brought up the issue got perma banned. They are all playing the game still or have an account that is not banned that is able to play the game.

Looking at RMT sites for 200G they would have to pay around 10 USD for 200 gold(that isn't including tax or other fees that may be charged). Not many people are going to spend 10 bucks to troll someone.

Which brings me to my next point. Yes you are fine if someone sends you small amounts of gold for tips. Why? Anet doesn't care and those small amounts don't throw of a warning. You may ask to yourself why? Because you can easily farm over 20 gold in an hour if you wanted, especially now with the Halloween event, etc. 200 gold I am sure does. It isn't a small amount of money to the majority of the community.

It got accepted they got flagged and slapped on the wrist and are fine.

This is such a non issue that it is crazy. Even this now being widely known because of the hella threads about it, players are not going to go dropping 10 bucks just to troll random people. Or it will be painfully obvious if you get large amounts of gold in your mail from people you don't know or you don't actively command etc.

Non issue. Log in and play and like you already fucking should trust people you know.

[Ok I Did It.2854]

Sorry, but this post is a mask for the real problem, and makes people think Anet are looking at it, this post is clearly in response to the current topics on reddit,

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/9t7ezl/the_gaile_gray_pr_statement_adresses_the_real/

The entire problem is around the fact that you can be offline and someone can have RMT gold sent to your account and before you even log on Anet has taken action on your account, for those who dont read the topic linked, the person was ( claims to be ) offline and when they logged on support had already actioned the account and removed 200G from it.

This problem isnt going to go away, this easiest fix to this entire problem is allow us to accept/block mails from certain groups

Just make a check box list,

Accept ingame mail only from

FriendsGuild membersALL

Until we get something simple like this, we are going to see posts like this appearing on reddit/ the forums more often, and honestly it kind of scares me that after 13 years of GW1/GW2 someone i dont even know could cause harm to my account due to lack of security in game, or because they dont like the way i did or said something in game.

[Celeste.9135]

Here's two examples of people who've received punishments for this type of thing and they are years old so this may not be such an isolated incident and there could be more out there. Both people claim to have not purchased the gold or even accepted it yet were punished and called out for trying to fix the issue. Obviously it's hard to tell if they're telling the truth and they were also impacted by a flaw in the punishment system or if they are lying after getting caught. Both people claim to have never accepted the items/gold yet were punished anyway. I can't help but find it a little worrying as we have no power to defend ourselves from sanctions, black marks on our account and eventually being banned as both situations ended with that threat. "I would suggest not doing any more RMT transactions if you value your account" and "Further incidents will not result in leniency." I know I'd feel a lot better if we were assured there would be no punishment upon receiving RMT in the mail rather upon accepting the contents within.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/support/I-m-getting-suspended-while-being-inactive/page/1

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/36fv17/warning_do_not_respond_to_scammers/

[CensoredOtaku.5432]

GM Responded: https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/9tbi3v/lead_gm_apologized_in_200g_rmt_trickcase_and/

[thrag.9740]

@Linken.6345 said:

Noted I missed that if anet did so they should return since they can see in logs the person returned the gold to sender, even tho they did it the wrong way by accepting then returning instead off return to sender straight away.

Hey man everyone misreads sometimes, thanks for being big enough to acknowledge it.

[Taygus.4571]

@"CensoredOtaku.5432" said:GM Responded: https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/9tbi3v/lead_gm_apologized_in_200g_rmt_trickcase_and/

Finally a clarification that just receiving the gold will not flag the account, but accepting it will.

This is all most commentors wanted.

[Lascax.2163]

Just wanted to say that I'm glad the case at hand was resolved that way. Btw I think that even if it was a private issue, you could've generally addressed how you generally would handle a similar case to avoid the continued rage to the non-response. I feel like there's some communication gap that still needs to be fixed and I hope it will be in the future.

[Daddicus.6128]

@Taygus.4571 said:

@Unknown.3976 said:

@Taygus.4571 said:

@Daddicus.6128 said:

@Taygus.4571 said:

@Daddicus.6128 said:I simply can't understand what everybody is up in arms about. The policy is, in my opinion, nearly perfect. There is no "loophole" unless players have this happening OFTEN. So far, there have been exactly TWO instances of this that we know about (in this thread and the reddit thread). And, the one in this thread was clearly suspended for CORRECT reasons.

Get a mail from an unknown party containing something quite valuable? Follow the policy and report it. What's so hard to understand about that?

If you accept the gold or item from someone unknown to you, you fully deserve what you will get: suspended or worse.

Stop throwing out hypothetical situations as if they're really happening with frequency.

Gaile,

keep up the good work

. And, please pass that comment on to the others involved in making and maintaining this policy.

NOTE: I said "nearly perfect" above. What I mean is I think one should KEEP the email until after the support ticket has been resolved. Report it, keep it, and make sure support knows about it. Then, delete it later (or, let support delete it). But, it's your game, and I accept the policy as it is. This paragraph is just a suggestion.

So people have to be wary of every donation they get?

I'll post the same question that i asked Gaile..how are we supposed to know that a mail contains RMT?

---

They should simply remove any RMT gold(even if it puts accounts in tye negative) and leave it at that.. no risk of ban but if something is RMT, people paid money for nothing...but no major harm done to unsuspecting players.

Yes, we should be wary of every donation from unknown parties. What's so hard about that? How many "donations" do you receive from unknown people?

I have NEVER received one from someone I didn't know (except when I did something for someone, like porting to the end of a JP). And, I fully expect I never will. But, if I do, rest assured that support will be contacted BEFORE I accept it.

And, I fail to understand why anybody would do otherwise.

Loads from jp porting actually.

WvW comms and HP run comms also recieve alot and often quite high in value.... do you really know every player im your squad?

Then there's streamers who recieve quite a bit as well.

Why should we be afraid to lose out accounts because some jerk decided to send RMT? Thats not good policy, why are you defending it?

But no one lost their account to this manner of griefing, Europaea (the OP on reddit) wasn't even banned, this matter is way overblown. It's fearmongering, mass hysteria started by one man, just one man.

But if the griefer sends another RMT to him, he could be, that's kinda the point here. Anet Support have said as much and have not denied it.

ONLY if he accepts it. As I said above, this is very simple: contact support immediately.