[ELITE SPEC CONCEPT] Rune Binder

[ErickDntn.1847]

Hiya folk! Just wanna share an elite spec idea that can assume support or dps/cdps role. I throw in some loose mechanic and skills description as well as backstory. Mechanically, it's inspired by Holosmith's photon forge, Necro's marking, and inspiration from other games, including Alexstrasza from HoTS and Black Mage form FFXIV. Mind you that I almost forgot pvp and wvw halfway writing this :3 Hope you guys enjoy!

Spec Concept

Rune binders are Elementalist scholars who have masterfully focused their magic with the primal elements. By tracing down the earliest practice of elemancy in Tyrian history, they are now able to "lock" elemental residue from their magic into their grimoire. These residues then turned into primal force and allow them to unleash primal magic through their grimoire. Primal force is also central to enhancing Marks that they can summon. In order to harness the primal elements effectively, they choose to harness two (three if too restricting) elemental attunement to maintain their focus in garnering primal force. Rune binders use MH focus (I have staff with melee setup as well as hammer in mind, but gonna go with focus cus fewer skills :p) to help them centralize their power.

The idea of this spec is to provide alternative Elementalist playstyle that is simpler, but perhaps with more restricted gameplay where you need to combo your Marks with Rune of Binding (one of the utilities) to trap enemies within an area radius as it activates to make the most of them (so almost similar to staff, but the effect is more "bursty"),. Some powerful spell/effect also restrict your movement but hopefully not as restricting as a typical mage in traditional MMO to maintain the semi-action combat feels.

New Mechanics

Two (or three) AttunementsRunebinder can only have 2 attunements at their disposal, They can customize their F1 and F2, so you can choose which two attunement you wanna bring as long as ooc It's pretty arbitrary but also following the premis that an elite spec should give up something to gain something (Scourge's shade, weaver's global cooldown), I just thought that it should feel more that runebinder relies more on their grimoire. But then I realize grimoire skills' cd might be too long to be that reliable, especially since it has resource mechanic. But again some of the spells are super powerful. So.... yeah :p

MarksRune binder's Marks work slightly differently than Necro's. When you cast it on the ground dealing some effect, it will leave a dim mark. A part of the mark will start to glow and the glow will spread quickly. once the mark is fully glowing, the more powerful effect will take place.

Primal ForcePrimal Force is an energy mechanic similar to Warrior's adrenaline. It has 2 tier, each tier empowers your Marks. You gain primal force from non-Marks spell that you cast in combat. Reaching maximum primal force allows you to use your grimoire to access new 1-5 skills. Primal force depleted at a constant rate while using grimoire. It will also reset out of combat.

Grimoire of Primal Elements (F3)Works similar to photon forge as explained above. These skills change depends on the major grandmaster trait you pick (just like daredevil's dodge); Grimoire of Primal Destruction (dps), Grimoire of Primal Agony (cdps), and Grimoire of Primal Abundance (heal support). The default untraited version is the lesser version of dps grimoire.

Grimoire of Primal Destruction

1. Lightning Zap: Basic attack. Electrocute the body of a foe, dealing damage and unblockable. Foes around a radius of your target will take damage, but lesser and can be blocked.
2. Fiery bullet (8s): Prepares a high pressured flame burst. Can be channeled up to 3 seconds, every second channeled increases its damage and velocity. Deals extra damage if fully channeled.
3. Rune of Woeful Element (20s): Marks. Summon a rune in an area that knockdown foes. After 2.5 seconds, the area will be hit by a thunderstorm that inflicts vulnerabilities. The ground will then explode after 0.5 seconds. higher primal force tier increases its damage.
4. Sunfrost Blast (16s): After channeling for 2s, sends a slow-moving fire orb with a frozen core that will home an enemy. Once it reaches the target, it will explode around a radius and inflict Frozen Feet (unique condition), immobilizing foes for 2 seconds.
5. Rune of Elemental Destruction (35s): Marks. Channel a rune in an area for 4 (or 5?) seconds. 0.5 into the channeling, summon gale wind that will float foes and create a static area, dealing damage every second. If channeling succeeded, a molten core will burst out of the center of the rune marking after 1s, dealing more damage in the center. The molten core will explode after another 1s. Primal force reduces channel time and increases molten core explosion damage. You are rooted while channeling.

Grimoire of Primal Agony

1. Shattered Earth: Basic Attack. Shatter the ground around an enemy. Inflicting bleeds to your main target. Enemies around your target affected with less bleeding stack.
2. Searing Ground (10s): Channel your power to sear the ground in an area up to 3s. Inflicting burn every second. When fully channeled, it will shatter the ground, dealing extra burn and bleeding.
3. Rune of Tearing Element (15s): Marks. Summon a rune that stuns enemies after 0.5s. After 2.5s, sets the area aflame, inflict major burning. Each tier of primal force add burn stack
4. Flame orb (20s): Launch an orb of flame that fires burning projectile nearby foes as it passes.
5. Rune of Elemental Agony (35s): Marks. Channel a rune in an area for 4-5s. 0.5s into the channeling, summon frozen mists and icy rain that inflict bleeding, chill and Frozen Endurance (unique condition, foes unable to dodge) as long as the enemies are within the radius. After 1s of successful channeling, impale foes in the area with stalactites, stunning and applying more bleeds around the center of it. after 1s, these stalactites will melt into lava, applying burns. Primal force reduces channel time and increases burn stack. Rooted while channeling.

Grimoire of Primal Abundance

1. Misty Airblast: Basic Attack. 1.5s channeling. Heal allies around for small amount you and damage nearby foes. Grant regeneration. Has 20% chance to summon Lesser Rune of Water (the lesser version of healing skill).
2. Furious Gale (6s): Channel to blow a strong wind in a cone in front of you. Granting allies fury each pulse and destroy incoming projectile
3. Rune of Bountiful Element (15s): Marks. Summon a rune of thunder and earth. After 2s, imbues allies with Enchanted Element, granting them bonus ferocity and a small increase of outgoing condi duration (regardless of expertise). Foes withing the area are dazed.
4. Earthly Unconscious (30s): Root yourself to the ground and channel the element of the earth. Pulsating protection around you.
5. Rune of Elemental Abundance (45s): Marks. Ground yourself and channel a rune in an area for 6s, granting yourself stability. Earthen your allies and infuse them with soothing water while channeling, granting them barrier and heal over time. summon cleansing flame every 2-3 seconds, cure a condition and damaging foes. After a successful channel, blast the area with misty air, granting allies swiftness and regeneration while damaging and knocking back foes. Primal force grants additional stability and protection for you.

Skills

Healing, Utility, Elite

• Rune of Water (Healing skill, 25s) : Marks. Summon a rune that grants regeneration. After 2.5s, it will heal the area and leaving a water orb that you can pick up for extra healing. Primal force reduc activation time
• Rune of Air (20s) : Summon rune that will summon breezing air, granting you swiftness. Cure condition after 2s. Primal force grant additional condi removal
• Rune of Earth (80s) : Draw a rune in two locations. Allies can use it to portal themselves to the other rune, granting them protection and stability (yes mes port for ele lmao). Primal force grants longer protection and significantly reduce its cooldown, but can only be used in short distance.
• Rune of Fire (10s) : Summon a rune in a targeted area that will explode after 1.5s, damaging foes and inflict burning. Primal force increase the damage and burning stack
• Rune of Binding (6s) : Marks. Draw a binding rune in a target area that will immobilize foes for 3s inside it after 0.5s. Has 2 charges. 12s count recharge Primal force increase immobilize duration (Immobilize can be changed into unique immobilize debuff if condi cleanse too strong, or just trap them inside the area for a brief time, so that to counter it is to dodge within the timeframe or be outside of the aoe before active)
• Primal Rune of the Elements (10s) : Can only be activated while using grimoire. Mark the ground beneath you with a rune that empowers yourself with unique buff based on your grimoire as long as you stand withing the radius. Your primal force depletes faster while this rune is active. Primal Destruction: 10% damage increase, Primal Agony: 10% condition damage increase, Primal Abundance: increased outgoing boon duration.

MH FocusFire

1. Blazing Orb: Shot a straight moving orb that pierces enemies, deal damage and apply burn in its path
2. Fiery Tempest: After 1.5, summon a fiery tornado that moves slowly towards a direction and pulls enemies into it. Deals damage and apply burning to enemies in its path
3. Heated Pressure: Wrap an area with a high-pressured heat wave, inflict burning. After 1.5, it will explode and daze enemies. Blast finisher.

Water

1. Soothing Orb: Shot a straight moving orb that heals allies it moves through. Deals more damage based on the amount of heal done.
2. Rise from Water: Sink beneath and reappear on a targeted location and summon water geyser while dealing damage
3. Ancient Cleansing: Summon a pool of water around your that last for a while. Converting 2 conditions into boons for allies and knocking down enemies inside the area. The effect only happens once per cast. Deals damage every 1s.

Air

1. Air Bullet: Shot a powerful single target attack
2. Stormbringer: summon a nimbus cloud above a target, deals damage every 1.5 sec to the target and enemies around it.
3. Whirling blast: After 1.5s, deals damage and knockback enemies around you. Grant swiftness

Earth

1. Crystalized Dust: Send a wave of crystalized dust in front of you, bleed foes.
2. Shard Squall: Apply bleed and cripple to an enemy continuously for a brief time
3. Rocks Slam: Summon two pillars on the opposite end of an area. After 1s, they move towards each other at high velocity, pulling enemies to the middle and granting allies protection. Foes pulled to the middle stunned briefly.

Traits

The idea is similar to PoF elite specs, you choose a certain path of traits to specialize there. By default, runebinder's abilities ideally favor power modifier, but still inflict minor condition. But you can trait to follow cdps path that will further enhance condition application significantly by modifying weapon, grimoire, and Marks skills. Otherwise player can follow dps path that will grant more power modifier or support path that give access to more healing, boons, and unique buff

Minor proficiency

• Main-hand Focus Proficiency : you can wield focus in your main hand

Minor adept

• Primordial Scholar : Gain access Grimoire of Primal Elements and Primal Force gauge. Can only access two attunements based on core specialization chosen. Cannot equip Arcane specialization and skills. Gain access to Marks skill

Major adept

• Focused Elements : While not moving, you gain extra power. Marks damage increased by 10%.
• Blazing Rune : Burn deals more damage. Marks that apply longer condition damage and apply additional condition of that type to burning foes.
• Sage's Might: Marks grant might when casted on the ground and after the final effect triggered to allies inside the radius.

Minor Master

• Primordial Attunement : Primal force generated by basic attack increases. Reduce attunement cooldown and grant primal force on attunement swap.

Major Master

• Balanced Power : Might grants you more power, but halves the effect of fury. All Marks now deal initial damage
• Binder's Focus : Focus skills apply longer condition duration and grant additional condition stack. Focus and Marks damage decreases significantly.
• Primal Infusion : Infuse your Marks with primordial elements to benefit allies, granting them Primal Infusion (unique buff) for 5 seconds if affected by the end effect of your Marks. (Primal infusion: grant damage and condi damage). The effect does not stack.

Minor Grandmaster

• Primordial Surge : Grant quickness when you equip your grimoire.

Major Grandmaster

• Grimoire of Primal Destruction : Improve the ability of your grimoire to wreak havoc your enemies.
• Grimoire of Primal Agony : Gain access to grimoire that focuses on dealing condition effects on enemies
• Grimoire of Primal Abundance : Gain access to grimoire that will equip you with support capabilities.

[Dace.8173]

I like the concept but I do see it going wrong in a few places. I think there is a workable idea in an Elite spect that removes your Elemental Attunements in favor of something else. However, it is worth noting that a simpler Elite isn't always a good thing for a profession that people play due to its complexity. You have only to look at Holosmith to see that in action. There is a lot of hate directed at it because it "dumbs down" Engineer and makes it "easy mode" which is why it dominates. How true that is up for debate (not the dominating part, that's not up for debate).

Marks also sounds like a cool idea but as a mechanic would be unreliable. For this, you should look at Renegade and the fact that people can dodge out of their summons. It might have potential as traps in the fashion of Dragonhunter. However, the fact that it grows more powerful over time takes a lot of control out of the player's hands in terms of when they go off and the power level at which they go off. There is the potential of laying them and them getting to full power but no one bothers to step on it. There is also the potential that you lay your mark but it gets triggered before it has gained any power. This makes your marks highly unreliable and if you are going to take a players ability to control when their powers go off then it needs to have a fairly consistent level of umph. Traps work for Dragonhunter because you lay them and they remain at the same power level. If someone steps on it early it gives the same damage output as if they stepped on it a few minutes later. This allows you to drop your traps in front of you if you are in a tight pinch and are being chased. I've laid down a bunch of traps as I retreat only to have the person chasing me set them all off and then I turn and finish the job with a burst. Marks would need to have that potential to be worthwhile. I also think it's a bad idea to deny players a specialization just for flavor reasons. Well, in a more general sense it would be wrong for an Elite to out and out restricting your specializations. You are already having to give up one Specialization in order to play it. Paying that cost twice is not good design. Same applies to the Arcane skills.

The grimoires have potential but if you are going to limit attunements you might as well go all in on it and have them replace all your attunements with related grimoires. So Air attunement becomes Air grimoire. However, this should not touch your basic weapons, IE you can still run your staff as per normal with the Air grimoire giving you the same staff skills as the Air attunement. These grimoires could basically work like Firebrands tomes, however. So the fire one would give you access to a series of dps based fire spells, water your healing spells, air movement/control/cc, and earth sustain.

From there I would lose focus as a main hand weapon. It's just not really a good weapon to turn into a main hand weapon. Axe or long/short bow is likely your best bet for a new weapon. I'd say one of the bows as both of them are under utlized while axe is not. I lean towards longbow but I could live with shortbow. Hammer, mace, and greatsword likely wouldn't sit well with people after getting a melee based spec in PoF. Axe is melee but having it as a mid range weapon work better than hammer and greatsword. I know Revenant and Mesmer, respectively, use them as ranged weapons but I don't think taking those ideas would be fun. Torch could be interesting but the flame doesn't exactly lend itself to 4 elements, though if it changed color based on the current attunement I think it might be fun. Sheild could have potential though.

However, overall I like the concept and the flavor it would bring to the profession.

[ErickDntn.1847]

Yeah, totally agree that there are many short-sighted flaws especially when we're talking about spvp, other game modes as well actually lol. I did realize how derpy the Marks can be in the game mode when I was writing most of the skills. I kinda throw in Rune of Binding as utility primarily to lock down enemies with a relatively short cooldown. If countered too hard with condi cleanse, the immobilize could be changed to unique debuff perhaps so that it can't be cleansed. or maybe instead immobilize it can trap enemies inside the area just like one of those bounties instabilities. So I suppose a way to counter it is by reactive in a short window of time. I guess it's also possible that marks skills are appropriated into the game mode further, such as reducing the activation time, effectiveness, and/or cooldown. So all in all, Rune of Binding will work as a combo with other Marks if that makes sense. But regardless, the support capabilities can work pretty well in pvp maybe?

I don't really mind about the weapon actually, I wrote down focus because I imagined the focus skin will a bracelet with similar effect to antipode, but instead, it's pure effect like infusions but only around your arms. But then the armor clipping :cry:. But longbow would be cool as well since I think it's a pretty underused weapon with some of the coolest skins.

As for grimoire, attunement, and mechanic in general, my goal is to simplify ele with more intuitive builds towards a specific role, thus kinda forced to restrict arcane since there is no arcane attunement. So I'd like to differ on this subject, for me personally there is not much weighting into choosing between an elite spec over a core spec, i.e. if I need to play support I play tempest and weaver for dps. But yeah I reckon core guard and warr is very competitive lol. And I am personally okay if they need to restrict a spec if they contradict with a more interesting new mechanic. Example, a petless ranger with more complex mechanic whatever it is might need to restrict beastmastery since a majority of them only improve pets (yes, there are pet-related traits in other specs but almost all of them also affect you). Further, I think elite specs are a great way to diversify gameplay that affects mechanic and often changes the difficulty of a class. In this case is a less complex ele, or even a high skill ceiling theef's spec! So the goal is not necessarily to "dumb down" a class but rather avoid complacent theming of a profession. And I think it's quite important for people who are unable to play "piano" class for whatever reasons, and people who seek more challenge in playing professions that are fundamentally easy, to be able to play and importantly enjoy profession that resonates to/capture their fantasy.

Now back to the main topic, I think it's awesome as well to be able to access a bunch of skills in addition to you 4 attunements, but my concern is that'd be too many skills at your disposal and might be much harder to balance. Well, I mean there is weaver, not sure how it is in pvp though. But maybe have access to only 2 grimoires depends on your core spec might work? I figure what arcane grimoire might be, support utilities perhaps? Boons like aegis, resistance or even unique boons that might thematically don't fit with the 4 elements.

[Dace.8173]

I don't see Rune of Binding as a viable thing. It would become a required skill to take and I think that's a bad idea and would limit the potential of the other Marks. You could maybe have the Marks over charge briefly when dropped kinda like Engineer turrets do. That's the only way I see the way you want them to work being viable. Or you could maybe borrow the way Auras work with having a brief window for you to make the effect stronger. The Mark could remain after that window closes or it might be possible to just leave it as an always on possibility.

I still think taking away Arcane skills and specialization is a bad idea and would be a non-starter for many people. Based on how Elementalist works though attunements will always be a problem to work around. The professions weapons skills are tied to it so you would either need to keep the ability to swap attunements or just change attunement into something else mechanically but it still provides the same element based weapon fighting style. If one were concerned about having too many skills to balance, and it is a valid concern, you could maybe borrow from Revenant and having the ability to only slot one or two grimoires at a time. However, you only have so much wiggle room with this. Elementalist attunements aren't like Necromancer shroud where changing how shroud work only affects shroud and nothing else. Anything you do to attunements you will always have to consider how players will be able to access their normal set of weapon skills. One might consider having your attunements be tied to elements and only being able to, therefore, use only two elements at once but I'm not sure how viable of an idea that would be to the playerbase at large.

Anything that makes Elementalist less complex will be perceived as dumbing the profession down by a lot of people. Part of the draw of Elementalist is the challenge in making its complexity work and pay off. Also, I think you might find shield as a good weapon to deliver the same kind of infusion like visual effect you were going for with a main hand focus.

[Laila Lightness.8742]

Also arcane is eles defensive and uttility the concept is great still but ele could have a hard time surving

[ErickDntn.1847]

Yeah, that's a good point. That might be a factor that makes it borderline impractical. I guess was trying to sorta the roles more defined (nearing the trinity system minus tank) into the spec too strictly, since I think having those defined roles in high-end pve is more healthy to give other specs a chance to fit into a composition and give less balance issue holistically in my opinion. But I obviously overlook other game modes.

But if theoretically, we go with the initial 2 attunements, I think it is still possible to allow using arcane spec and skills. The attunements just need to be changed from dependent on the other 2 core specs, to just customizable outside of combat, so akin to changing the 6-0 skills.

[Dace.8173]

@ErickDntn.1847 said:Yeah, that's a good point. That might be a factor that makes it borderline impractical. I guess was trying to sorta the roles more defined (nearing the trinity system minus tank) into the spec too strictly, since I think having those defined roles in high-end pve is more healthy to give other specs a chance to fit into a composition and give less balance issue holistically in my opinion. But I obviously overlook other game modes.

But if theoretically, we go with the initial 2 attunements, I think it is still possible to allow using arcane spec and skills. The attunements just need to be changed from dependent on the other 2 core specs, to just customizable outside of combat, so akin to changing the 6-0 skills.

The problem is that defined roles are not the design philosophy for this game. A player wouldn't be able to rely on taking Tempest for support and Weaver for DPS. The game isn't balanced around very strict and defined roles. The way Elementalist is built also makes defining a specific role for each Elite difficult. Arcane is a part of Elementalist and there isn't a logical reason to remove it as it serves a purpose in Elemental build design and to remove it hinders build design. As pointed out, Arcane helps to support Elementalist defensive side and to remove it is to gut their defense capabilities.

Also, the two attunement things simply wouldn't work. Elementalist weapon design is around swapping elements. This means that specific functions are tied to specific elements. Having access to only two attunements means you go into combat with half of your weapon gone. Picking abilities similar to the Utilities wouldn't work since Elementalist weapon design is built around the concept of that can't happen. Thus, attacks that would be problematic if used together are not problematic because you aren't going to be able to use them together.

The concept is cool but the concept has to be made to work with Elementalist, not the other way around.

[ErickDntn.1847]

I think the design philosophy itself already was shifted with HoT and raid intro, and tempest is already a good support in PvE despite flaws that make in niche and weaver has been in a good spot as DPS especially in pve group content, despite relying on support most to survive. But I think that's the point, there needs to be some form of symbiosis to make the game more interesting, especially when it comes to harder group content. I don't holy trinity and that's why I'm playing this game, but demolishing roles entirely also doesn't work and I think anet recognized it. Just need to look back pre-HoT before the traits system we majorly overhauled and streamlined into specializations. Everything was just zerk meta and resulting in bland composition. With elite specs, professions that use them started to accentuate in a certain role while still can do other things. Which opens up more gameplay design possibilities like raids and cm.

Don't get me wrong, I get your point about the importance of self-sustain especially in solo OW and pvp. But if we look back at necro and scourge, for example, a few years ago they couldn't fit in many pve contents because they were too "selfish". They had little support, even with some utility buffs and transfusion addition, and their damage was meh to compensate their shroud that gives superior survivability (although tweaked with reaper). Now I think scourge is a really good example of a good trade-off mechanic-wise, they lost much of their personal survivability, but now can support allies. They gain something but they lost something. And I think there is a misunderstanding, I didn't mean to imply that we can customize skill 1-5, but rather customize F1-F2. So you can pick either one of four attunement for one slot (either F1 or F2), but not the skills individually.

The four attunements no doubt synergize together but have this generalist feeling (strictly speaking about core ele). But my goal is to follow the premise that you lose some of your attunement but getting grimoire that gives different abilities that accentuate specific role. Especially in group pve weaver, right now water and earth attunement is not really in the rotation of power dps (except for cc), so it has few values in some situation. So I think it will be an interesting direction if able to pick attunement depends on the situation, and you're still have grimoire to compensate the lost attunements. But yeah taking arcane perhaps too much of a compromise, and if two attunement is problematic we can let third attunement in.

All in all, I'm on the same page that it has to be a practical and following theme, but differ in the approach of how an elite spec should be designed. I mean I am not a game designer (duh), but to open the way for better, practical and balanced design, I think it is important to open up to many possibilities and that compromise can be made on both the concept and the class itself. And I think Anet has remarkably done this to some elite spec, eg Scourge shade, weaver's global cooldown, less max adrenaline for spellbreaker.

[Dace.8173]

Both Tempest and Weaver can be used for other things though. Just about every Elite has one or two builds where it really shines but if you wanted to you could do something else with it. Some builds come out of left field (folks were surprised with Condi Reaper). The design philosophy they go with allows for flexibility so that someone who likes Weaver but doesn't want to DPS can actually play Weaver and not DPS. You can build Weaver as a healer, in part because you can build Elementalist as a healer and Weaver just adds another layer to that. Given the way people have been playing for 6 years, I have doubts if they would approve of an Elite that is only good at one thing when everyone else is running around with Elites that can do three or four. The game is actually fairly interesting and the lack of emphasis on the Holy Trinity and strict designs draws a lot of people to the game who got tired of spending all night waiting for a specific build to show up or you couldn't raid.

Also, Necro and Scourge is not a good counterpoint as it is constantly kicked from end game PvE content for not producing a high enough DPS level. Then there is the fact that Necromancer lacks sustain. It either dies real fast or you're screwed. Protracted fights don't favor Necromancer, Reaper, and Scourge. Necromancer and Reaper are particularly vulnerable due to Shroud and running out of it. When I go into Reaper Shroud I had better killed the other guy or I'm gonna be in trouble. Scourge also lacks sustain. They don't have Shroud as a backup and Necromancer's overall lack of sustain really hurts Scourge in that department. Scourge is a poor example because Scourge requires allies. If it doesn't have allies, such as Firebrand, they fold real quickly and there are a lot of Necromancer players who feel that's bad game design. Overall, Necromancer, Reaper, and Scourge do not support your point. It lacks sustain, dps, and mobility. One can call Shroud sustain but if you talk to Necromancer players you'll see that they don't like that Shroud is their sustain as it has prevented them from getting true sustain options (I spend a lot of time talking over in the Necromancer sub-forum).

Also, slotting only two attunements is not workable. It guts Elemetnalist. It removes its flexibility. Elementalist players already complain about the profession being gutted as is. A move that would reduce their attunements is not likely going to foster broad support. Sure you have Grimories but they will never be able to provide the same level of flexibility that attunements provide. You cut it down to two and you will see people claiming that they dumbed down Elementalist. The balancing act of four attunements is part of the appeal.

Also, Spellbreaker is a poor comparison. Adrenaline is nowhere near the same type of gaming mechanic as attunements. A lowered max for that ability doesn't suddenly mean you've lost half your weapon set. Scourge really illustrates just how bad messing around with a core component can be. Without standard Shroud the Elite lacks sustain and thus has to have someone backing them up to survive. No one wants to rely on a completely different profession in order for their build to work. Conceptionally it's an interesting idea and does provide something new. In practice, though it limits what Scourge can do since having a key element removed without the profession already having internal support to compensate leads to handicapped builds.

[ErickDntn.1847]

Ofc you need to take 2 other core specs. But in reality, if I want to play healing support ele (for some reasons actually) and have to choose between fire/water/earth (or weaver) or fire/water/tempest, I would choose tempest at any given time because it has more group utilities than healer weaver, even if you still can do it. I don't always play a full-blown dps weaver in OW myself, I adjust the build for personal survivability occasionally. But I choose so for the sake of survivability, while still emphasize on killing enemies as quickly as possible. And if I need more survivability or change to a healer I can change to tempest. It's impractical to expect weaver to compete with other support specs since they are often required to stack might as well. putting more healing power to gears is one thing, but it's the elite spec itself that skew its role to a certain direction through traiting.

I also like the game because I can be whatever I want by choosing different traits, slot skills and weaps, the idea and the reality of the system itself keeps me going since the open beta. One thing that I notice especially after elite specs came is that there is a continuum between the role of dps and support/healer/sustain. In WoW, I believe each class can do assume multiple roles as well, but it's either this one or that one not somewhere in between. But GW2 allows players playing a role in between, while skewed towards a specific role by using certain traits. So you can have play water/arcane/earth spec even if playing with spec that skews towards dps role if you need defense.

And I think scourge often got kicked because of min-maxing by speedclearer (or people just take whatever the meta is), but their dps is still viable albeit not in every counter. Regardless of their performance or it still being shunned in group content, cdps scourge still outperforms reaper cdps (or even power reaper) and support scourge can be very useful in carrying wipes while offer group mitigation and 25 might in group content by giving personal shroud, which I think is Anet's aim (or at least what they are trying to) since group utilities for necro had always been asked for a long time. I assume by lacking sustain you mean in pvp? Can't say much on this, I've been hearing contradicting stuff about necro myself. But if OW pve there are so many cheese build, especially involving minions, since there is no "hardline" dps or support.

I wasn't trying to compare adrenaline with attunement, merely mentioning them to point out that elite spec trade-off is more that just you have one less spec to pick (because in all honesty it also holds true when picking up a core specialization, in fact, this is the idea of specialization in the first place). And it's not exactly removing their mechanic, but rather modifying them.

But thanks for the input! Made small changes here and there.

[Dace.8173]

Scourge gets kicked because it DPS output isn't high enough. Is that a problem created by speedclear? Yes, even the Necromancer players know this. That doesn't change the reality that because Scourge has lower DPS and not much in sustain it gets kicked. That is a problem that limits what they can play. That also doesn't change that Scourge doesn't support your point very well. You can't play Scourge alone and do well in a lot of content. It HAS to have someone playing with them. That shouldn't be the case. It's good if other Elites compliment each other but if Scourge doesn't have a Firebrand healing him he will go down fast. One of the reasons for that is that Shroud is Necromancers sustain. Necromancer has some serious issues in that regard. Scourge is an interesting concept and it's an interesting idea but it doesn't change that when they removed Shroud the handicapped the profession. That's the in-game reality and play experience of Necromancer players. It really doesn't matter what it looks like it can do on paper, Necromancers are reporting a different experience or reporting that they do in fact do what you say it does but the HAVE to have a dedicated healer compensating for their lack of sustain. No profession should require another profession in order for it to be able to do what it was designed to do. Necromancer players have quit the game over these issues.

And no, I'm not talking just about PvP. It lacks sustain in all modes. The base profession doesn't have much of it. It doesn't matter what mode you play Scourge in. The problem isn't mode of play but the game lacking the support mechanics it needs. The inherent problem is that Shroud was their sustain. Without it they are missing a major tool that was meant to keep them alive. Again, things in play are very different than what it looks like on paper. This is a common complaint from Necromancer. Well, the most common complaint is that their profession sucks because it simply does not have the mechanics to perform at the same level as everyone else. Repear suffers from similar issues, once they run out of Lifeforce to power their Shroud they become very vulnerability to a counter-attack because they lack the sustain needed to survive and the mobility needed to escape. As I said, I spend a lot of time in the Necromancer sub-forum. Again, Necromancer players have quit over these issues. And this isn't hyperbole. There are numerous threads of people talking about quitting the game because their profession has been the bottom tier for six years, threads where players talk about how they can't play what they love in the game because Anet doesn't give them the tools they need to keep up with the other professions. You can say it was a good move and toute all the benefits it brought but the actual in-game experience from Necromancers does not line up. At the end of the day, what Necromancer players say about the viability of their profession outweighs what someone says about it based on how it looks on paper.

As for Adrenaline, it doesn't support your position. It doesn't highlight an Elite spec trade-off as Warrior's power and combat options are not tied to Adrenaline. It provides a boost. Because it provides a boost to what you are doing with it you have a lot more freedom to experiment with it. Elementalist combat abilities are tied to their Attunements. If you remove one you have removed a set of weapons. The equivalent for Warrior would be an Elite spec that said they couldn't use sword, shield, axe (both hands), mace, and greatsword. Removing one or two attunements would be closer to Scourge, cool idea in concept but doesn't work as well in game because the profession itself was built around that concept.

It's worth noting, there are players already saying that the new Sigil and Rune abilities are dumbing down gameplay and removing complexity. You will see these exact same complaints about an Elite that removed half their attunements. It's an idea that you'll find most Elementalist players are going to reject.