Nerf Full Counter

[ezd.6359]

It should not reset anything or give resources, it should only work as shield. Or you need to rework its mechanic to add counter play. This "after a successful Full Counter" is successful almost every time WARs use it. In active combat you can't even stop attack some like phantasms animation unstoppable at all. Success or not is fully relies on war players instead of his enemy, so wars can just spam everything spam blocks, stuns etc, then just use full counter when they see a phantasm - then repeat. So fighting wars is waste of time literally.

1) It should not be unblockable when it procs2) It should be interruptable by CC skills (it should counter only pure damage skills)3) It should not reset skills

In current state he has unlimited skills, condi clear, heals etc.

P.S. I don't talk about stuck animation, you know.

[Kumouta.4985]

just endure the first time and don't rely on ticking dmg when you think it's not on CD anymore

[ezd.6359]

@"Kumouta.4985" said:just endure the first time and don't rely on ticking dmg when you think it's not on CD anymoreLike i said it is not possible in most situations when warrior player can chose the moment. What do you mean "endure"? He is attacking you while you are running around without attacking? Then why he will waste the skill? The problem is - you can't react in many cases if you started to you use your skill already. While he just spam everything then only one proc forgives all his fails.

It seems it designed around "hard to use, but big reward", but in reality it is not hard to use for a normal player.

[Irreverent Italian Guy.578]

Just git gud before calling a nerf to maybe one of the only balanced classes right now.

[Raiden The Beast.3016]

Nerf FC, buff teef

[MithranArkanere.8957]

All it needs is a bit of windup before the countering starts.Not much. Just a bit. Like 0.25 or 0.5 of its activation time.Enough for people to be able to stop their actions before hitting, but not so long Full Counter becomes too slow to react.

[jportell.2197]

@"Irreverent Italian Guy.5786" said:Just git gud before calling a nerf to maybe one of the only balanced classes right now.

Prolly thinks that holosmith is balanced as well as boon beast. Lmao

[Stallic.2397]

@MithranArkanere.8957 said:All it needs is a bit of windup before the countering starts.Not much. Just a bit. Like 0.25 or 0.5 of its activation time.Enough for people to be able to stop their actions before hitting, but not so long Full Counter becomes too slow to react.

This is probably the best solution. I also hate that you can be in the middle of activating a skill, when FC pops up without any warning.

Adding just a split second of activation will allow for skillful counter play.

[syszery.1592]

Try this maybe? (I did not contribute to this video in any way but maybe it is helpful to understand how it works and how to deal with warrior.)

https://youtu.be/gIgNjrn7Jug

[Ryan.9387]

Just dodge it or don't hit them when it's up.

Learn the cooldowns for full counter (traited and non traited) and just count down after they use it. Warriors usually use it off cooldown.

Also cc skills like thief steal can interrupt full counter. It doesn't clear conditions.

Tldr its fine just l2p.

[Megametzler.5729]

@"syszery.1592" said:Try this maybe? (I did not contribute to this video in any way but maybe it is helpful to understand how it works and how to deal with warrior.)

https://youtu.be/gIgNjrn7Jug

And then he says "condi mirage has the highest skill cap because all his shatters are instant". :lol: I know it's not your video and it is great overall, but that sentence just made me laugh.^^

On topic: They nerfed the wrong stuff on warrior, as usual. It not okay now, but unfortunately kinda clumsy and less skill based.

€: Ooops. I meant to write "it's okay now".^^ I don't think it needs nerfs anymore and holo, mesmer and boonbeast can carry harder.

[syszery.1592]

@Megametzler.5729 said:

@"syszery.1592" said:...

And then he says "condi mirage has the highest skill cap because all his shatters are instant". :lol: I know it's not your video and it is great overall, but that sentence just made me laugh.^^

On topic: They nerfed the wrong stuff on warrior, as usual. It not okay now, but unfortunately kinda clumsy and less skill based.

Yes, I don't agree with everything he says in the video but I mean that he goes over most of the details of the prominent warrior builds and he gives an idea how to counter a full counter. And since OP mentioned clones and phantasms I assumed that he might play mesmer and in the duels at the end you can see that attacking into a full counter doesn't mean that one loses a fight.Also I think that knowing how and when to use full counter separates the good SB from the average ones.

[Eddbopkins.2630]

Theres only 3 garenteed defences against a full counter that i know of. One is dodge, two is an invulnerablity, and three is blinding the war. But full counter being on a 10 second cd is to short. Full counter is to spellbrakers as headbutt is to beserker. Is headbutt a 10 secind cd...no, its 25. What would happen if it was a 10 second cd skill? Be alittle op right? Same thing with full counter. It should be a 25-20 sec cd. On top of the short cool down of full counter it is also AOE stun! all the time. Headbutt is single target if power spected and single target stun + a crippling self stun

[KrHome.1920]

By no means ANet should make a counter skill counterable. I mean that's like when a thief could counter reveal with stealth... oh wait.

Serioulsy:The skill is called full couter because it's meant to counter stuff. Adding a windup reduces it to absurdity. And ANet is aware of that because:

the skill is split in two parts, the actual instant trigger and the hitting part which can be dodged.

If any further balance is needed then trigger effects can be shifted to the hitting part to nerf the skill. That's a pretty intelligent skill design.

[kipthelip.5802]

Been calling for a real nerf to this ability for a long time. It does too many things and it hits too hard. If you removed it probably 75% of Warriors would disappear from pvp that shows you how good it is. Nerf it and if Warriors need buffs elsewhere fine. But it does way too much for a no skill ability with a low cooldown.

[Shagaliscious.6281]

I just wish they would fix the damn bug where warriors look like they have perma-full counter. Super annoying to fight when they bug like that.

[whoknocks.4935]

It happens to proc full counter for classes like mesmer and ranger which have an external AI which doesn't respond fast as the player.

With all the other classes it's so easy not to proc it.

In some fights if you proc it doesn't matter, the crucial thing is to dodge it always and don't get hit by it.

Proccing it is fine as long as you don't get hit by it.If you keep getting hit by full counter you have a l2p issue there.

[syszery.1592]

@Eddbopkins.2630 said:Theres only 3 garenteed defences against a full counter that i know of. One is dodge, two is an invulnerablity, and three is blinding the war. But full counter being on a 10 second cd is to short. Full counter is to spellbrakers as headbutt is to beserker. Is headbutt a 10 secind cd...no, its 25. What would happen if it was a 10 second cd skill? Be alittle op right? Same thing with full counter. It should be a 25-20 sec cd. On top of the short cool down of full counter it is also AOE stun! all the time. Headbutt is single target if power spected and single target stun + a crippling self stun

I think Burst Skills are are better compared to F-skills from other professions than to an elite skill: So it is like asking to increase attunement cd from ele or steal from thief or so on...

[MyPuppy.8970]

It's easier to land FC than a sword Weaver AA chain but i don't mind, warrior is meant to be effective while simple and straightforward. What they lack in grace and beauty, they compensate with high resilience and the ability to inflict massive damage in a single attack.

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

Some classes have issues with your "clone spam" and that's fine, you have a problem with clones hitting fc and somehow it needs a nerf.

[Blocki.4931]

Take the last thing the class has away from them

[Luna.6203]

@"ezd.6359" said:It should not reset anything or give resources, it should only work as shield. Or you need to rework its mechanic to add counter play. This "after a successful Full Counter" is successful almost every time WARs use it. In active combat you can't even stop attack some like phantasms animation unstoppable at all. Success or not is fully relies on war players instead of his enemy, so wars can just spam everything spam blocks, stuns etc, then just use full counter when they see a phantasm - then repeat. So fighting wars is waste of time literally.

1) It should not be unblockable when it procs2) It should be interruptable by CC skills (it should counter only pure damage skills)3) It should not reset skills

In current state he has unlimited skills, condi clear, heals etc.

P.S. I don't talk about stuck animation, you know.

There is nothing like unlimited/spam skills.. everything have cd.. if you don't know them its your fault.Animation stuck is rare bug which should be fixed ofc.Periodic heal comes from defence trait line. Heal skill is regular ability... Every class have that.. What's wrong with that ?Condi clear is one on weapon swap but that cost you a lot of damage from loosing (destruction of the empowered)One condi clear on burst from (cleansing Ire) but to be honest nobody use that ... (rousing ressilence) or (lats stand) is better option (at least for spellbreaker (because 1-bar adr. skills))Another option is utilliy skill like (shake it off) still not enough to clear condi mirage, scourge etc... so its usually better to rely on resistance instead of condi clear.

Look:

Let's say... u want to use discipline and defence.That leaves you with only one more option for 3th spec.So your options are:1) strength/discipline/defence2) spellbreaker/discipline/defence

So strength vs spellbreaker:-strength:1) damage on dodge + might on dodge (might heals you and gives 40 power ...6)...)2) phyz skills 20%cd reduct + 10%dmg for 6 sec3) burst skills restore 15 endurance4) greatsword 20%cd reduct + might on crit + 10% damage (might heals you and gives 40 power ...6)...)5) might gives 40 power instead of 306) 2 endurance + 133 heal every time you ll get might.-spellbreaker:

1) gain access to full counter2) full counter gives 3sec protection boon or 7% crit damage (14% to boonless target - it ll never happened in pvp)3) stun remove one boon4) full counter apply slow and cripple 3 sec5) full counter refresh burst cooldown + disabling or remove boon gives you 45 ferocity and precision buff.6) full counter gives you resistance 2 sec and copy 3 condi + deal 20% more damage.

What's the point ? Conclusion:Whole spellbreaker trait-line spec is about full counter. Look what you have to sacrifice to get full counter compared to for example strength. Practically u are playing only two spec warrior with f2 counter ability.If you nerf FC like 25-30 sec, make it interrupt-able or something like that. Whole spellbreaker spec becomes TOTALLY USELESS and nobody will ever use it!

So please stop talking nonsense. I don't even mention that a lot of defence abilities comes from paladin stats and defence trait line and fact that warrior class is mostly played by veterans players. Because to successfully counter/block enemy requires good knowledge of game mechanics and other classes.

Fun fact is that defensive warrior have usually really bad damage. Greatsword damage is decent but without trait (forcefull greatsword) and ferocity (pala amulet) its bit low... real reason why warriors using it is evade and mobility. Dagger damage just sux.. its utility weapon + shield just stun and block. Real warrior damage in pvp comes from enemy mistakes. Like eating reflecting damage. Triggering FC on cooldown and that's just your own mistake!! Hitting that abilities also boost warrior - gives might and heals.

So stop calling for nerf because u have no clue how to play. I can't really imagine more spellbreaker nerfs because core warrior is already better in many aspects and its really shame.

[ezd.6359]

Luna.6203, I do not complain about other abilities. If arena.net thinks warriors need condi clear - give them a skill, if they want to give them another block skill - ok. But they give them heal+condi clear+reset cd+boons+apply condi to enemy+unblockable+unevadable+unbreakable easy to use with low cd. It is too powerful.

Leave excuses, you know many warriors just go far point from start of the match because they know they will effectively prevent capturing far at least but also can grab a kill if his enemy will not leave, if they meet 2 ppl they can effectively waste theirs time. All know i am right it is not because every warrior player is better than regular mesmer or thief player, but because of warriors mechanic.

Thieves can run to far point, but they can't always win duels, and most of time they will not stay on the point capturing it. Same for mesmers, they can fight on far, but they can capture it only after duel. Rangers can run to far, they can def the point, but it is rarely they can kill anyone if they play tank. Guards can capture the point, but they will die when they will waste all of their defense abilities. Etc. All classes have tradeoffs but warriors.

1) It should not clear condi, to let players kite warriors2) It should not be unblockable and interrupt on proc to let ppl fight in melee

Direct damage enemies must have an option too. I don't know what it must be. May be CC skills should be able to stop "full counter" with penalties for warriors.

[Rysdude.3824]

@Shagaliscious.6281 said:I just wish they would fix the kitten bug where warriors look like they have perma-full counter. Super annoying to fight when they bug like that.

This is about the only thing they should fix with it. Its SUCH an easy thing to avoid. If your AI is triggering FC, then you brought the wrong profession to the dance.

[ezd.6359]

@Rysdude.3824 said:

@"Shagaliscious.6281" said:I just wish they would fix the kitten bug where warriors look like they have perma-full counter. Super annoying to fight when they bug like that.

This is about the only thing they should fix with it. Its SUCH an easy thing to avoid. If your AI is triggering FC, then you brought the wrong profession to the dance.

And your advice is "leave the point" right?