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Nerf Full Counter


ezd.6359

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@ezd.6359 said:

@"Shagaliscious.6281" said:I just wish they would fix the kitten bug where warriors look like they have perma-full counter. Super annoying to fight when they bug like that.

This is about the only thing they should fix with it. Its SUCH an easy thing to avoid. If your AI is triggering FC, then you brought the wrong profession to the dance.

And your advice is "leave the point" right?

My advice is to get a team mate to kill the SB. Your clones will just ruin it.

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You cant nerf one of few things the warriors have going for them :p i give it to you that they are top 3 strongest at fighting in in a narrow space.. but hey... most professions can beat a warrior by keeping their distance. And yes i agree warriors are REALLY annoying to fight with all defense, blocks, counters, endure pain etc. but thats what they are all about, every damaging ability they got is so hard telegraphed that you can sidestep/dodge the lot of it.

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Thanks to all pasive defence warriors can go full zerker without any punishment.The amount of sustain warrior has is clearly OP. There is so much hate on evade spam of mirage, but i would argue that warrior has even more active defence with shield + FC + gs 3+ double endure pain. This combined with heavy armor alows them to be really tanky on glass sets.

If we want pvp to be better this amount of sustain needs to go, among of many non warriot related things.

Btw. Ele needs to sacrifice all his damage, take healing amulet and take very clunky low range weapon and still NOT be as tanky as spellbreaker.

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@"Irreverent Italian Guy.5786" said:Just git gud before calling a nerf to maybe one of the only balanced classes right now.

HA balanced...no. Looking on the forums however it appears warrior players think they are balanced. While they are not as bad as they used to be, they are yet to still be "balanced". FC is pretty much the reason why. Balance that a bit more then i can see SB being "balanced"

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@syszery.1592 said:

@Virelion.4128 said:Thanks to all pasive defence warriors can go full zerker without any punishment.

Did you actually try this yourself for a significant amount of time (in competitive environment) or did you just read this somewhere?

Tried it. I am more survivable as zerker spb than paladin reaper by far.Also I am more survivable in demolisher than weaver sword build.Situations like this shuld never happen in any serious game where glass cannon is more survivable than tank

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@"ezd.6359" said:Luna.6203, I do not complain about other abilities. If arena.net thinks warriors need condi clear - give them a skill, if they want to give them another block skill - ok. But they give them heal+condi clear+reset cd+boons+apply condi to enemy+unblockable+unevadable+unbreakable easy to use with low cd. It is too powerful.

Leave excuses, you know many warriors just go far point from start of the match because they know they will effectively prevent capturing far at least but also can grab a kill if his enemy will not leave, if they meet 2 ppl they can effectively waste theirs time. All know i am right it is not because every warrior player is better than regular mesmer or thief player, but because of warriors mechanic.

Thieves can run to far point, but they can't always win duels, and most of time they will not stay on the point capturing it. Same for mesmers, they can fight on far, but they can capture it only after duel. Rangers can run to far, they can def the point, but it is rarely they can kill anyone if they play tank. Guards can capture the point, but they will die when they will waste all of their defense abilities. Etc. All classes have tradeoffs but warriors.

1) It should not clear condi, to let players kite warriors2) It should not be unblockable and interrupt on proc to let ppl fight in melee

Direct damage enemies must have an option too. I don't know what it must be. May be CC skills should be able to stop "full counter" with penalties for warriors.

It doesnt clear condi unless Cleansing ire is being taken which is a trait in a diff traitline,and since Counter is a Burst skill it Should do that if you pick Cleansing.Otherwise Counter on its own is not cleansing condis.It Can copy them from himself to another player on Counter which is also a seperate trait needing to be taken.It also doesnt heal unless you talk about adren hp which is in a different traitline.It also only resets the CD of a Burst skill,not all skills as you make it seem or think it does.

Counter On Its Own,only does unblockable damage + a 0.5 sec daze + 2 sec stabi.

Damage is fine now aswell since it got a 26% damage nerf.

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Fact is, any good player can dodge full counter easily.Do ppl even realize even if u hit full counter the dmg is not instantly?Fact is you can interrupt counter by removing stab. Meta sb runs annulment sigil with which he can easily interrupt war.Fact is you can easily bait counter.

Fact also is that the majority of players in gw2 are casuals who arent really good az pvp and never stow weapons, bait skills, dodge randomly and don't react fast enough. This is why some people still moan about sb even tho theres way worse offenders like boonbeast, mirage and holo.

No actually good player ever complains about counter and as sad as it is, not tryna be rude, but it is a learn2play issue...

Edit: the only problem i see with counter is that it is an aoe skill and you get punished when your teammate triggers it..

And the full counter visual bug ofc...

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@Toron.4856 said:Fact is, any good player can dodge full counter easily.Do ppl even realize even if u hit full counter the dmg is not instantly?Fact is you can interrupt counter by removing stab. Meta sb runs annulment sigil with which he can easily interrupt war.Fact is you can easily bait counter.

Fact also is that the majority of players in gw2 are casuals who arent really good az pvp and never stow weapons, bait skills, dodge randomly and don't react fast enough. This is why some people still moan about sb even tho theres way worse offenders like boonbeast, mirage and holo.

No actually good player ever complains about counter and as sad as it is, not tryna be rude, but it is a learn2play issue...

Edit: the only problem i see with counter is that it is an aoe skill and you get punished when your teammate triggers it..

And the full counter visual bug ofc...

I rarely play warrior, yet I can hit almost every FC. You can proc it in AOEs and during enemy attack animation. It is almost impossible not to proc I an area with more than 1 enemy.

The real issue is not “do not proc it” but is that in order to fight warrior with any success rate you have to anticipate it and nearly stop attacking. So you either continue playing aggressive and risk getting hit with it or be forced to play passive. For a skill with 10 seconds CD this is bullshit. No other class can force yoo not to be aggrasive.

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@otto.5684 said:

@Toron.4856 said:Fact is, any good player can dodge full counter easily.Do ppl even realize even if u hit full counter the dmg is not instantly?Fact is you can interrupt counter by removing stab. Meta sb runs annulment sigil with which he can easily interrupt war.Fact is you can easily bait counter.

Fact also is that the majority of players in gw2 are casuals who arent really good az pvp and never stow weapons, bait skills, dodge randomly and don't react fast enough. This is why some people still moan about sb even tho theres way worse offenders like boonbeast, mirage and holo.

No actually good player ever complains about counter and as sad as it is, not tryna be rude, but it is a learn2play issue...

Edit: the only problem i see with counter is that it is an aoe skill and you get punished when your teammate triggers it..

And the full counter visual bug ofc...

I rarely play warrior, yet I can hit almost every FC. You can proc it in AOEs and during enemy attack animation. It is almost impossible not to proc I an area with more than 1 enemy.

The real issue is not “do not proc it” but is that in order to fight warrior with any success rate you have to anticipate it and nearly stop attacking. So you either continue playing aggressive and risk getting hit with it or be forced to play passive. For a skill with 10 seconds CD this is kitten. No other class can force yoo not to be aggrasive.

So what? Even if u proc it, u can just dodge it..

Full counter damages you like 0.5 secs after it gets triggered..

Even if u proc every single counter in the world, u can avoid the CC, dmg, slow etc. By dodging within 0.5 secs

(have a look at the first point in my comment)

Maybe its a bit less than 0.5 secs but in fact its enough time window to dodge the attack. If u cant dodge it in time, get better at dodging and try to improve your reaction time.

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@otto.5684 said:

@Toron.4856 said:Fact is, any good player can dodge full counter easily.Do ppl even realize even if u hit full counter the dmg is not instantly?Fact is you can interrupt counter by removing stab. Meta sb runs annulment sigil with which he can easily interrupt war.Fact is you can easily bait counter.

Fact also is that the majority of players in gw2 are casuals who arent really good az pvp and never stow weapons, bait skills, dodge randomly and don't react fast enough. This is why some people still moan about sb even tho theres way worse offenders like boonbeast, mirage and holo.

No actually good player ever complains about counter and as sad as it is, not tryna be rude, but it is a learn2play issue...

Edit: the only problem i see with counter is that it is an aoe skill and you get punished when your teammate triggers it..

And the full counter visual bug ofc...

I rarely play warrior, yet I can hit almost every FC. You can proc it in AOEs and during enemy attack animation. It is almost impossible not to proc I an area with more than 1 enemy.

The real issue is not “do not proc it” but is that in order to fight warrior with any success rate you have to anticipate it and nearly stop attacking. So you either continue playing aggressive and risk getting hit with it or be forced to play passive. For a skill with 10 seconds CD this is kitten. No other class can force yoo not to be aggrasive.

Thats skillful playing and not mindless 111111111

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The only thing warrior needs to do to survive is use FC at cd.You cannot power burst due to dmg immunity.You cannot condi burst due to amount of resistance.You cannot wear them down due to sustain signet and adrenal health combined with above, most classes cannot even outrun warriors due to gs mobility/rampage.Only thing you can do is not hit FC only to it being hit by teammate, random aoe, clone, shroud proc ect.Even if you get good in avoiding all this bulshit, the visual bug will prevent all your knowledge/skill.

But sure some people will have "briliant" solutions like "dont spam 111111" or "just dodge it" witch is just cringeworthy.

Ps. The sad thing is that fighting warrior is still more fair and fun than dueling DE or condi mirage.

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@Toron.4856 said:

@Toron.4856 said:Fact is, any good player can dodge full counter easily.Do ppl even realize even if u hit full counter the dmg is not instantly?Fact is you can interrupt counter by removing stab. Meta sb runs annulment sigil with which he can easily interrupt war.Fact is you can easily bait counter.

Fact also is that the majority of players in gw2 are casuals who arent really good az pvp and never stow weapons, bait skills, dodge randomly and don't react fast enough. This is why some people still moan about sb even tho theres way worse offenders like boonbeast, mirage and holo.

No actually good player ever complains about counter and as sad as it is, not tryna be rude, but it is a learn2play issue...

Edit: the only problem i see with counter is that it is an aoe skill and you get punished when your teammate triggers it..

And the full counter visual bug ofc...

I rarely play warrior, yet I can hit almost every FC. You can proc it in AOEs and during enemy attack animation. It is almost impossible not to proc I an area with more than 1 enemy.

The real issue is not “do not proc it” but is that in order to fight warrior with any success rate you have to anticipate it and nearly stop attacking. So you either continue playing aggressive and risk getting hit with it or be forced to play passive. For a skill with 10 seconds CD this is kitten. No other class can force yoo not to be aggrasive.

So what? Even if u proc it, u can just dodge it..

Full counter damages you like 0.5 secs after it gets triggered..

Even if u proc every single counter in the world, u can avoid the CC, dmg, slow etc. By dodging within 0.5 secs

(have a look at the first point in my comment)

Maybe its a bit less than 0.5 secs but in fact its enough time window to dodge the attack. If u cant dodge it in time, get better at dodging and try to improve your reaction time.

You Do know dodges are limited right? I can go through a 1 minute fight with SB not get hit by FC once and still not win the fight. Not to mention there are far more important skills to dodge.

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@MithranArkanere.8957 said:All it needs is a bit of windup before the countering starts.Not much. Just a bit. Like 0.25 or 0.5 of its activation time.Enough for people to be able to stop their actions before hitting, but not so long Full Counter becomes too slow to react.

The problem is its so powerful and on a short cool down that you keep getting put in a situation where you can't do anything to a Warrior for a few seconds while he gets to whale on your ass. I guess you could run away but then your just going to allow him to cap the point. Also, Warriors have high sustain so they keep healing up to full health during the time you can't attack them. You really can't beat a well played Warrior in a duel right now because of it. If they are meant to win 100% of duels against all melee builds at even skill level I guess its fine.

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@kipthelip.5802 said:

@MithranArkanere.8957 said:All it needs is a bit of windup before the countering starts.Not much. Just a bit. Like 0.25 or 0.5 of its activation time.Enough for people to be able to stop their actions before hitting, but not so long Full Counter becomes too slow to react.

The problem is its so powerful and on a short cool down that you keep getting put in a situation where you can't do anything to a Warrior for a few seconds while he gets to whale on your kitten. I guess you could run away but then your just going to allow him to cap the point. Also, Warriors have high sustain so they keep healing up to full health during the time you can't attack them. You really can't beat a well played Warrior in a duel right now because of it. If they are meant to win 100% of duels against all melee builds at even skill level I guess its fine.

The only reason they have high sustain is adrenal health. Healsig alone is like 350hp/s. Any class can do 350dps. Don't cc spam them and dont let them hit f1/f2. If you can't do that in a 1v1 you deserve the loss in the duel.

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@otto.5684 said:

@Toron.4856 said:Fact is, any good player can dodge full counter easily.Do ppl even realize even if u hit full counter the dmg is not instantly?Fact is you can interrupt counter by removing stab. Meta sb runs annulment sigil with which he can easily interrupt war.Fact is you can easily bait counter.

Fact also is that the majority of players in gw2 are casuals who arent really good az pvp and never stow weapons, bait skills, dodge randomly and don't react fast enough. This is why some people still moan about sb even tho theres way worse offenders like boonbeast, mirage and holo.

No actually good player ever complains about counter and as sad as it is, not tryna be rude, but it is a learn2play issue...

Edit: the only problem i see with counter is that it is an aoe skill and you get punished when your teammate triggers it..

And the full counter visual bug ofc...

I rarely play warrior, yet I can hit almost every FC. You can proc it in AOEs and during enemy attack animation. It is almost impossible not to proc I an area with more than 1 enemy.

The real issue is not “do not proc it” but is that in order to fight warrior with any success rate you have to anticipate it and nearly stop attacking. So you either continue playing aggressive and risk getting hit with it or be forced to play passive. For a skill with 10 seconds CD this is kitten. No other class can force yoo not to be aggrasive.

Mesmer Torment and Confusion spam say Hi.

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Nerf Full Counter? Nay, I say. Do the opposite! Boost it! I want a Full Counter that, when hit, explodes in a shockwave of destruction that obliterates anything within a 1200 unit radius, knocks over anything beyond that and leaves charred, smoking ruins in its wake. You can give it a cooldown of 10 minutes in return, as long as I get my big explosion.

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@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Toron.4856 said:Fact is, any good player can dodge full counter easily.Do ppl even realize even if u hit full counter the dmg is not instantly?Fact is you can interrupt counter by removing stab. Meta sb runs annulment sigil with which he can easily interrupt war.Fact is you can easily bait counter.

Fact also is that the majority of players in gw2 are casuals who arent really good az pvp and never stow weapons, bait skills, dodge randomly and don't react fast enough. This is why some people still moan about sb even tho theres way worse offenders like boonbeast, mirage and holo.

No actually good player ever complains about counter and as sad as it is, not tryna be rude, but it is a learn2play issue...

Edit: the only problem i see with counter is that it is an aoe skill and you get punished when your teammate triggers it..

And the full counter visual bug ofc...

I rarely play warrior, yet I can hit almost every FC. You can proc it in AOEs and during enemy attack animation. It is almost impossible not to proc I an area with more than 1 enemy.

The real issue is not “do not proc it” but is that in order to fight warrior with any success rate you have to anticipate it and nearly stop attacking. So you either continue playing aggressive and risk getting hit with it or be forced to play passive. For a skill with 10 seconds CD this is kitten. No other class can force yoo not to be aggrasive.

Mesmer Torment and Confusion spam say Hi.

I play extremely aggressive against mirage. I play mostly guardian though.

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@otto.5684 said:

@Toron.4856 said:Fact is, any good player can dodge full counter easily.Do ppl even realize even if u hit full counter the dmg is not instantly?Fact is you can interrupt counter by removing stab. Meta sb runs annulment sigil with which he can easily interrupt war.Fact is you can easily bait counter.

Fact also is that the majority of players in gw2 are casuals who arent really good az pvp and never stow weapons, bait skills, dodge randomly and don't react fast enough. This is why some people still moan about sb even tho theres way worse offenders like boonbeast, mirage and holo.

No actually good player ever complains about counter and as sad as it is, not tryna be rude, but it is a learn2play issue...

Edit: the only problem i see with counter is that it is an aoe skill and you get punished when your teammate triggers it..

And the full counter visual bug ofc...

I rarely play warrior, yet I can hit almost every FC. You can proc it in AOEs and during enemy attack animation. It is almost impossible not to proc I an area with more than 1 enemy.

The real issue is not “do not proc it” but is that in order to fight warrior with any success rate you have to anticipate it and nearly stop attacking. So you either continue playing aggressive and risk getting hit with it or be forced to play passive. For a skill with 10 seconds CD this is kitten. No other class can force yoo not to be aggrasive.

Mesmer Torment and Confusion spam say Hi.

I play extremely aggressive against mirage. I play mostly guardian though.

I do too if Im on DH or Tempest but the few times that ive tried to get into Rev its the same story for me, counter play is to stop moving and using skills lmao or to be where the mirage is not.

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@"Megametzler.5729" said:And then he says "condi mirage has the highest skill cap because all his shatters are instant". :lol: I know it's not your video and it is great overall, but that sentence just made me laugh.^^

in fairness, skill cap and skill floor are very different things. While I certainly disagree that it has the highest skill cap, the skill cap is arguably pretty high, even if the skill floor is low.

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