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in raids. i get kicked everytime by people using ARCdps. why are they allowed to see my dps?


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I play my own style making me as a player unique, yes I do have not so good dps, but I have a bunch of other great attributes, so my questions are as follow1: why are people allowed to see my dps? it is my account and allowing others to see what happens on my account is in my opinion not fair.2: if i dont want to run Beserker stats on my warrior (meaning I don't do enough dps) then am I not entitled to get my legendary armor?3: players say guild wars is a game about player skill... uh so wheres the "player skill" in pressing what a website says you must press? isn't that the same as bot... hmm makes it pretty hard to mess up... might aswell use macro's because its the same keys over and over, I mean who will ever know4: and last question is... instead of making it so that players have to depend on each others healing/damage buff's. why not make it an individual thing? (will add some competitivity)

thank you in advance for any feedback

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1) The program reads this data from the system memory if I recall. This was approved by Anet if that’s all that is read. Someone can elaborate or clarify on this as I’m sure I’m leaving things out.

2) It’s not about whether you’re entitled to get your legendary armor or not. It’s about the groups looking for specific players and wanting them to carry their weight equally as far as DPS goes. The best solution is to create your own group stating everyone is allowed or join one that states such.

3) It’s not as simple as duplicating a written rotation. If it is then give it a try and you’ll see it’s not necessarily that easy and especially not in a raid environment.

4) It’s a group encounter; not a solo one. The objective is to work together as a team and not individually as a team.

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@"Blake.1908" said:I play my own style making me as a player unique, yes I do have not so good dps, but I have a bunch of other great attributes, so my questions are as follow1: why are people allowed to see my dps? it is my account and allowing others to see what happens on my account is in my opinion not fair.dps is public information you don't own it.2: if i dont want to run Beserker stats on my warrior (meaning I don't do enough dps) then am I not entitled to get my legendary armor?Yes, you can get legy armor, just not with the groups that don't want you. Either make a group of your own with friends you know and trust, or grind pvp/wvw for its legendary armor. If you pug, you are subject to their rules as its their group.3: players say guild wars is a game about player skill... uh so wheres the "player skill" in pressing what a website says you must press? isn't that the same as bot... hmm makes it pretty hard to mess up... might aswell use macro's because its the same keys over and over, I mean who will ever knowThe point is to have those memorized so you don't have to think about them when kitten hits the fan because of mechanics and you're not panicking because of it. Also certain bosses have dps checks that must be passed or causes the group to wipe.4: and last question is... instead of making it so that players have to depend on each others healing/damage buff's. why not make it an individual thing? (will add some competitivity)Because then it would just be 10 people playing beside each other instead of with each other. Also not all classes have access to all boons.(If that was the case that all classes were all things, then only the top dps classes would ever be taken and you'd have even less of a chance to get in unless you mained the top dps class, prob ele)

thank you in advance for any feedback

editadding more to it, people prefer the tried and tested as they know the odds of it and it is familiar to them. Your special build is a wild card to them and they'd prefer to avoid such things especially since there are enough seemingly random factors that lead to wipes.

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It definitely is an individual thing. If you underperform, having perfect boons might not salvage it. Thing is, if you deal 6k DPS and you play a DPS role you're not going to beat the encounter. It's not really about elitism in that case, it's just actually having a chance to beat something or not. You're not entitled to getting carried by people with actual damage numbers.

It's the bare minimum of you to run the right stats for your role, which is always Berserker or Berserker + Assassin for Power DPS. It doesn't matter if you have one or two parts with different stats, as you will not achieve 100% min maxed numbers anyway, but if you get into raids and bring useless stats like toughness and vitality and it reflects on your numbers, people should definitely call you out on that.

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It is group content.It means players don't do what they want on their own, they do what is the best for the team, for the event : aggro, dps, support, cc, kite etc, it means too a proper equipment, a proper build, food etc.May be there is a lot of "elitism", but in average people don't have to carry you to your legendary armor. Actually you're the selfish one here, they want them too the legendary armor, the rewards etc. So why should they do training, revise their build, their rotation while people comes from nowhere "I'm support healer mace shield war in Soldier exotic equipment; carry me" ?

About the "player skill" if you were that much skilled, why don't you play Berserker set, why don't you have top DPS ? I mean, the DPS and the sustain come from supports classes, your brain your placement your rotation... your skill ...And, with all respect for SC etc, all the "meta" build are obvious; if you try by yourself you find the metabuild and the rotation without looking on internet. If you're not close to a "metabuild" you can find on internet I assume you're not that good.

And arcDPS is not only about "kicking everybody under 20k dps" it's also to appraise the all-in DPS, which conditions, which composition, which strategy... work better.It's okai if you do 20k/s rather than 22k/s as your companion, as long as you try to improve yourself and look at advices, but please do not come if you don"t know your class and your role.

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i understand that people prefer the tried and trusted and i have no issue with the players in raids, my real issue is the content that is restricted to that, im sure a lot of people want the legendary armor but cant get it because they cannot raid, i would just like to be able to get my armor even if its in a different way or even another armor set that has some good looking features because lets be honest the WvW/pvp armor doesn't look nearly as good as the raid armor, its like they put 0 effort into them. i say add a Pve armor set make it grindy sure i still don't mind, but atleast then i know i am able to obtain it the same way i was able to make 7 legendary weapons

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@"Blake.1908" said:1: why are people allowed to see my dps? it is my account and allowing others to see what happens on my account is in my opinion not fair.Why shouldn't they allowed to see your dps? Your ability to play the game, and your dps, is crucial in the success or failure of content, when you don't optimize it means the other people need to do extra work. Is this fair to you?

2: if i dont want to run Beserker stats on my warrior (meaning I don't do enough dps) then am I not entitled to get my legendary armor?You can join a guild that can take you into Raids no matter what gear you use.

3: players say guild wars is a game about player skill... uh so wheres the "player skill" in pressing what a website says you must press? isn't that the same as bot... hmm makes it pretty hard to mess up... might aswell use macro's because its the same keys over and over, I mean who will ever knowNow you are on a different subject here. This game is all about player skill, a player with bad gear that plays well will outperform a player with good gear that doesn't know how their build works. That's one of the good things of dps meters, they allow player skill to be what defines a player and not their choice of armor and traits. Without a meter groups would need you to ping your gear and you'd be excluded from running the content without even trying. Now you at least get your chance to prove them your skill makes up for not using the optimal gear.

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@"Blake.1908" said:I play my own style making me as a player unique, yes I do have not so good dps, but I have a bunch of other great attributes, so my questions are as follow1: why are people allowed to see my dps? it is my account and allowing others to see what happens on my account is in my opinion not fair.Well, it's not accessing your account, but data available to the other player's client.Also is it fair that you impose your questionable "great attributes" on others? Why do 9 other players have to conform to your views, if you're unwilling to conform with theirs?

2: if i dont want to run Beserker stats on my warrior (meaning I don't do enough dps) then am I not entitled to get my legendary armor?You can run Vipers, for condi Berserker, you can run Assassin's for Power Warrior, you can run Berzerker's, you can run a few other builds, as long as you can justify it properly.Warrior has two functions, either pure DPS, or a DPS/Support Mix with banners. In either case, you'll want to have a good damage output. Any other build, in a Raid setting, is sub-optimal. Warrior is a decent tank, but using it for tanking won't be as efficient as using a Chrono, a Firebrand, or even a Herald. Because those classes can still support while having lower DPS for tanking. Warrior, basically only has it's banners, everything else is less than other classes.

And, no, you're not "entitled" to anything. You have a option of working for it, like everyone else. It's not your entitlement, or your right. You're not owed a Legendary Armor, you've got an option of getting it, or not.Why would other people have to do it for you, if you're unwilling to do the bare minimum to prepare to obtain it? Basically, you're saying you should be allowed to leech from other people's work? I don't think you do, right?

3: players say guild wars is a game about player skill... uh so wheres the "player skill" in pressing what a website says you must press? isn't that the same as bot... hmm makes it pretty hard to mess up... might aswell use macro's because its the same keys over and over, I mean who will ever knowNo one says you have to follow what a website tells you, in fact, most of those will tell you that's indicative, and you should adapt it to your own play-style, but that doesn't absolve you of doing a bare minimum level of DPS. No one (well almost no one) will either do or demand you do the same DPS as a Benchmark, benchmarks, are that, an indication of optimum performance. In a raid you won't be doing optimum at all. But you should be doing within a certain level.Check GW2Raidar for some statistics on how players perform in actual raids, instead of Benchmarks.

I'd strongly advise you, if you're actually interested in doing your part in a raid, to get arcDPS, and try to tweak your build until you hit a proper performance tier. You don't need to do as it's done on the Websites, but usually, if you're looking for an optimum build, you'll definitely end up with similar points.

4: and last question is... instead of making it so that players have to depend on each others healing/damage buff's. why not make it an individual thing? (will add some competitivity)Well, then you'd be screwed completely wouldn't you? I mean, obviously, your performance isn't good enough to get you a spot on a group, what makes you think you'd be able to compete with others?You need to depend on others, because that's what it means to play in a group, to cooperate and specialize so the group's performance ends up being greater than the sum of all parts.

thank you in advance for any feedback

No problem.

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@Blake.1908 said:i understand that people prefer the tried and trusted and i have no issue with the players in raids, my real issue is the content that is restricted to that, im sure a lot of people want the legendary armor but cant get it because they cannot raid, i would just like to be able to get my armor even if its in a different way or even another armor set that has some good looking features because lets be honest the WvW/pvp armor doesn't look nearly as good as the raid armor, its like they put 0 effort into them. i say add a Pve armor set make it grindy sure i still don't mind, but atleast then i know i am able to obtain it the same way i was able to make 7 legendary weapons

Then get other like minded people and go with them. Pug groups aren't yours, they set their rules and you either follow them or make your own. Join a guild, get friends, find other people that think like you and go with them. Getting in the raid isn't hard, finishing it is. And people would like the highest chance of success. Off shoot builds generally have lower chances of success due to lower dps and lower group synergies. I believe a dev said that the dps of an average player is 4 or 500% lower than the top dps. Someone please correct me on this if I'm misremembering.

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@"Blake.1908" said:I play my own style making me as a player unique, yes I do have not so good dps, but I have a bunch of other great attributes, so my questions are as followLet's rephrase the situation in a slightly different way.

I play flute and found a local performance space in which people can just show up to find groups to perform with, mostly quintets. I am self-taught and I find myself getting kicked by groups when they find out I don't read music and I only know how to play Bach & Beethoven. Why? I'm good at what I do and can learn the other pieces, if people just give me a chance. One of the groups even has a computer to listen to some of my performances that are on YouTube.

1: why are people allowed to see my dps? it is my account and allowing others to see what happens on my account is in my opinion not fair.It's not your data; it's ANet's. (At least, that's how they explain their policy around this.) Regardless, what happens on your account when you are solo is your business; what happens when you join up with four or nine others is also their business.

2: if i dont want to run Beserker stats on my warrior (meaning I don't do enough dps) then am I not entitled to get my legendary armor?You can do whatever you like. But the other nine people in the group are entitled to play with someone else who plays the game the way they do.

3: players say guild wars is a game about player skill... uh so wheres the "player skill" in pressing what a website says you must press? isn't that the same as bot... hmm makes it pretty hard to mess up... might aswell use macro's because its the same keys over and over, I mean who will ever knowYou don't have to use Snowcrows builds. A lot of good & great raiders don't. But it's rare that people don't at least look at those builds to figure out how & why they work, before going their own way. The skill isn't in pressing keys in a specific order. It's in (a) having the muscle memory to execute that rotation on demand and (b) knowing when to do that... and when not to. It's akin to practicing scales and knowing when to stick to the sheet music and when (or if) to improvise.

4: and last question is... instead of making it so that players have to depend on each others healing/damage buff's. why not make it an individual thing? (will add some competitivity)PvE is a cooperative game mode, not a competitive one.More importantly, raids are deliberate designed to foster teamwork. Everyone needs to pull their weight.

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Just get a proper "meta" warrior build for raids (either pure condi and/or power) as already mentioned here in this thread by others and play your own build in every other content.On a serious note, if you know how to play an encounter, avoid red circles and listen to the commands of your squad you'll barely die first as glass cannon warrior. Usually a lot of dps players will go down before due to not having the high hp pool a warrior has.Additionally, people will only call you out for bad dps on a warrior if your dps is really really bad. Most of the squads just need your banners and a "decent" dps because everything else will be covered by others (dps and boon + heal support). Players that are not able to bring that "decent" dps on a so-called bannerslave haven't done their easy homework. Trust me, playing that role is one of the very easy ones and almost a free ride on all the bosses you'll need for the legendary armor. There's almost nothing to do for you except for bringing banners, participating on breaking cc bars and doing the easy dps rotations of the relevant warrior builds. In most pugs & statics the more important roles or boss mechanics in wing 1 - 4 (the ones needed for the legendary armor) are tied to the chronos (for example tanking), druids (pushing orbs, rooting mobs, "protecting" an npc) or dps (destroying special targets). Playing warrior in those wings almost is a no-brainer.

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I do not want to be disrespectful so my syntax might be off as English isn't my first language so I might lack the ability to explain myself in a respectful way at times.First I'd like to point out your punctuation is random at best, nonexistent at worst. Try working a bit on this, unless you want people to take you less seriously than you deserve.

@"Blake.1908" said:I play my own style making me as a player unique

Cool, be unique, there's nothing bad with it. However remember the old meme http://zimnox.tech/412012155756Selection002.jpg

yes I do have not so good dps

Namely? Drop some numbers. Personally I think 'not so good dps' sits somewhere between 70 and 80 percentile.

but I have a bunch of other great attributes

Namely? What attributes can you have, when your (assuming you're still talking about that warrior of yours) tasks are composed of dropping banners, doing CC and dps?

1: why are people allowed to see my dps? it is my account and allowing others to see what happens on my account is in my opinion not fair.

Dunno, I don't mind people seeing my rotations (maybe just like me pick up druid, there's nearly no rotation whatsoever) or data that doesn't point to my real life data. DPS meters might not be as popular in other games (I'm not really knowledgeable about this, I might be wrong) but that's because other games don't have horizontal progress, making it easy to tell your usefullness by previewing your gear. Here however it's all about pushing buttons. And believe me, here, since we have such a huge gap between good and lower-end-of-average players (some developer once said that a top weaver player can output 8x more dps than a casual weaver) dps meters give you some chance of being accepted to decent parties, without it the community would find other ways of checking people's 'skill', most probably by even crazier LI checks.

2: if i dont want to run Beserker stats on my warrior (meaning I don't do enough dps) then am I not entitled to get my legendary armor?

Nope, you are not entitled to anything. Sad but true, legendary armor is a prestige reward, not a participation trophy. If I may inquire further, what is your gear, runes, build?

3: players say guild wars is a game about player skill... uh so wheres the "player skill" in pressing what a website says you must press?

It is a game about player skill. You just don't see this because you're experiencing it from the standpoint of a casual player for whom 'till now it was enough to tap random buttons. It's not 'pressing what a website says you must press.' It's a website run by some of the most knowledgeable and devoted players who in their free time theorycraft and spend time on the golem just so that you can know what is as close to maximum efficiency as possible.

isn't that the same as bot... hmm makes it pretty hard to mess up... might aswell use macro's because its the same keys over and over, I mean who will ever know

It's not. However, if you think it is, why don't you go to the golem and prove us, for all to see, that you can reach 90th percentile or more with your current build.Macros aren't really legal this way as they're against EULA as they give you an advantage over other players. And people will know. Especially since doing proper rotations isn't only about tapping skills in set order, it's also about weaving dodging, positioning and execution of mechanics into that.

4: and last question is... instead of making it so that players have to depend on each others healing/damage buff's. why not make it an individual thing? (will add some competitivity)

You don't have to 'depend' on other people. You're free to go in with 9 different people, damn, you're even free to go there alone and clear most of the bosses with your current build and gear. However let me ask you a question. Would you rather spend hours trying to do that or be a bit less of a snowflake and get in, get kill and get out?

tl;drYour main problem is that you feel you should be entitled to having that legendary armor only due to the fact that you want it. Which is silly but you have a right to feel this way. But since you are running a build as bad as your game knowledge you have no right to feel entitled to people's time that they would have to spend carrying you. Because as someone smart once said, your freedom to swing your fists ends where my nose begins.

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@"Blake.1908" said:i understand that people prefer the tried and trusted and i have no issue with the players in raids, my real issue is the content that is restricted to that, im sure a lot of people want the legendary armor but cant get it because they cannot raid, i would just like to be able to get my armor even if its in a different way or even another armor set that has some good looking features because lets be honest the WvW/pvp armor doesn't look nearly as good as the raid armor, its like they put 0 effort into them. i say add a Pve armor set make it grindy sure i still don't mind, but atleast then i know i am able to obtain it the same way i was able to make 7 legendary weapons

All you're saying is "I want raid-level rewards, but I can't be bothered to raid properly." Sorry man, I really hope that never happens. It's not out of personal spite against you, OP - I don't know you and more importantly I don't care how you play - it's just that I don't like the idea of making exclusive rewards available in every single game mode. I see no difference between that and someone wanting to PvE "grind out" an sPvP title or badge - the game-mode-exclusive rewards become meaningless if you don't even have to touch that game mode to get that reward.

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Not going to repeat what others have said since most issues were covered, this is group content thus either bring what the group asks for or make your own.

Just a small note, if you get kicked due to DPS, depending on the group you joined (and let's be honest, with little kill proof or experience you will not be running in ultra-meta-snow crows demand level groups) that will not be some slightly less dps. It will most likely mean you are useless or about as close to useless as possible that the groups decide not to carry you.

I've seen all type of groups, and people do not get kicked due to a "small lack of dps" (maybe in some ultra hardcore groups, but we've already established that you are most likely not in those to begin with). People get booted because their performance is dead last and terrible and others notice this on arc.

You want to run your own build, gear and setup? Get good enough within the expected range by practicing on the golem or optimizing your performance for other not to notice. Otherwise accept that your knowledge and understanding of the game is vastly inferior to what pro raiders have setup as builds and use one of those and make sure to practice rotations.

TD;DR: you claiming that your performance is a bit below that of others is likely untrue. The only way to not get kicked is to improve your performance in what ever way you feel comfortable.

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@"Cyninja.2954" said:Not going to repeat what others have said since most issues were covered, this is group content thus either bring what the group asks for or make your own.

Just a small note, if you get kicked due to DPS, depending on the group you joined (and let's be honest, with little kill proof or experience you will not be running in ultra-meta-snow crows demand level groups) that will not be some slightly less dps. It will most likely mean you are useless or about as close to useless as possible that the groups decide not to carry you.

I've seen all type of groups, and people do not get kicked due to a "small lack of dps" (maybe in some ultra hardcore groups, but we've already established that you are most likely not in those to begin with). People get booted because their performance is dead last and terrible and others notice this on arc.

You want to run your own build, gear and setup? Get good enough within the expected range by practicing on the golem or optimizing your performance for other not to notice. Otherwise accept that your knowledge and understanding of the game is vastly inferior to what pro raiders have setup as builds and use one of those and make sure to practice rotations.

TD;DR: you claiming that your performance is a bit below that of others is likely untrue. The only way to not get kicked is to improve your performance in what ever way you feel comfortable.

This is very true, the two groups i run with from time to time as a stand in has no issues with my lower than meta DPS(by about 25% on a bad day, and 15% on a good day, on my Condi SB, though..i was #1 DPS once and i was super happy), only because i stay alive and dont detract very much from the fights because i know the mechanics, and dont get downed.

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I want to see you in a raid group with at least other "3 very unique players with their own original-low dps builds" and try to manage killing the boss before reaching the time threshold.

But to be fair, maybe youre not even aware that bosses have a timer and you have to beat them before they go apesh*t and wipe the party. Thats why meta build exists to being with.

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@"Wolfb.7025" said:I want to see you in a raid group with at least other "3 very unique players with their own original-low dps builds" and try to manage killing the boss before reaching the time threshold.

But to be fair, maybe youre not even aware that bosses have a timer and you have to beat them before they go apesh*t and wipe the party. Thats why meta build exists to being with.

Tbh that isn't that hard to do with w4. I recall going with a wvw guild on their 1st raid and most of them were using wvw builds. We 1 shot (that 1 time didnt count due to glider malfunction) all bosses except deimos with only 1 person doing more than 10k dps

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For sure you can play however you want(Hybrid dps condi with pew pew rifle and longbow only weapon set), its just the success rate would be slightly lower due to Enrage Timer. Hence you too are depriving others to get Ledgy.Just go find a likeminded person, joined a guild or form your own regular raid team. I think there's even a raid training at Discord, talk to them, I bet you will probably gonna listen to the same thing of what most of the commenters here said.Pug group will always emphasize efficiencies. Teamwork is the key in raid (that means each has to excel on their specific role), not individualism.

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4: and last question is... instead of making it so that players have to depend on each others healing/damage buff's. why not make it an individual thing? (will add some competitivity)

How exactly will that work for you again? You said it yourself, you are not that good at doing damage. Raid bosses have enrage timers, meaning if the boss is not spanked in a certain amount of time, the party fails.I mean the boss might be defeated in the required amount of time (read: you get carried), but if your damage is half the damage another class like yours dished out, would you call it fair?

Don't even know why I am writing this. It is clear by your desire that others should not see how bad you are (read: don't know your real dps) that it is a waste of time.Go PvP for legendary armor. At least there you can help others farm you.

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You should be allowed to run whatever build you want, but it is group content, so you need to be able to fulfill your role adequately, so it has to provide the results. If you aren't doing your job, people are perfectly justified in kicking you. Run whatever build you like as long as you can get the job done with it. If it can't perform, you'll have to either adjust it for the group or find a group that's willing to carry you.

Also if you don't want to do dps you should just play a support. Of course, the supports have jobs to do as well, so you better be able to do it.

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