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in raids. i get kicked everytime by people using ARCdps. why are they allowed to see my dps?


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Blake, what did you enter the group as? dps? if dps, you will need to dish out the expected dps.. if not, the run can be rough. it puts back to the group if you cant contribute what is expected. there are support role you can play. you just need to find out and research more about raids and professions and how it works as a group. you cant just jump in and play expect to kill a boss. I also suggest you to research on raid training guild and try to join them. because you will learn about raid in a calmer condition.

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I pug raids a lot and warrior dps is usually like 60% of what it should be and nobody cares.If you get kicked for low dps on warrior that means you had an epic dps battle with a druid or chrono.

Arcdps allows me to play power reaper without getting kicked. Without it i wouldn't really be able to do that like in old dungeon days.

Just get arcdps yourself so you can compare yourself to other players. Maybe that will make you evaluate your build or playstyle when you see people doing 8 times your damage.

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I feel like a lot of the ArcDPS hate could be fixed by people just trying it out themselves.I used to be very critical of DPS Meters when they used to pop up years ago, until I tried Arc myself.The amount and speed of self-improvement as a player I gained from that since then was phenomenal.

Right now, for you, you just "randomly" get kicked because some evil program shows people your DPS, which seems unfair.If you were actually using ArcDPS and saw your own DPS, which must be horrendous to be kicked as Bannerslave, you might get a better understanding of the expected level of DPS by watching others and your own performance and be more motivated to improve yourself.When a Boon Support Chrono is out dps'ing you, and you can see the levels that other DPS players perform at, you will maybe understand that it's not Arc, it's you.

Either you improve yourself and play at the expected level to clear Raids without having to be carried by the other 9 players, or you make your own completely off Meta group after your own rules and try to clear Raids with that.Either way, you are going to have to put some effort in if you want to be able to Raid. You are not entitled to get the Legendary armour without putting the work in to clear the required content.

A unique build or playstyle is not inherently a quality if it performs horribly. In fact, it's ArcDPS that allows unique builds to be accepted in Raids (if people are willing to give you a shot to prove yourself in the first place), if your performance is still on par with that build.Without trying to be rude, your are not getting kicked for being unique, as that is fine. You are getting kicked for performing badly and letting 9 other players down, while you happen to play a unique build. That's not fair to anyone else in that group.

If performing well as DPS doesn't take any skill (according to you), it shouldn't be much trouble for you to gear a proper Raid character for that very purpose and just do that particular content on that.

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@"Blake.1908" said:I play my own style making me as a player unique, yes I do have not so good dps, but I have a bunch of other great attributes, so my questions are as follow1: why are people allowed to see my dps? it is my account and allowing others to see what happens on my account is in my opinion not fair.2: if i dont want to run Beserker stats on my warrior (meaning I don't do enough dps) then am I not entitled to get my legendary armor?3: players say guild wars is a game about player skill... uh so wheres the "player skill" in pressing what a website says you must press? isn't that the same as bot... hmm makes it pretty hard to mess up... might aswell use macro's because its the same keys over and over, I mean who will ever know4: and last question is... instead of making it so that players have to depend on each others healing/damage buff's. why not make it an individual thing? (will add some competitivity)

thank you in advance for any feedback

1) Why wouldn't they have a right to see what's going on if you are a part of their team?2) Nobody is entitled to get anything, no matter what gear they wear.3) The fact that your own rotation and gear gave you far worse results kind of negates this point unless all you care about is being special4) They could do that and you'd still continue to underperform if you continued to refuse the use of efficient builds and gear

In any case, you joined in full knowledge that you do not fullfill the requirements they set but you decided to join anyways?Pretty much disrespecting the wishes of the majority of the squad over your own selfish ideas and now you are pissed that there is a toolwhich makes said thing obvious to everyone? That says more about you than it says about those you complain about or ArcDPS.

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As a side note: just joined a "ALL WELCOME" Gorseval run as a Druid.I had it done this week so I joined out of boredom.3 out of 6 dps were under 10K dps. One Holo was under 6K dps.The other 3 dps were over 20K.The problem is that we had a tough time to beat the 1st timer and get Gorseval to 66%. As in we did not get past the 1st checkpoint in 4 tries.Many people in the squad were running ArcDPS but none of them said a word about the lack of dps, respectively to ask very low dps people to step up their game a bit.Instead, they kept giving "tips" to Druids on how to play, what spirits to run, when to heal, etc , etc.I know I joined a "ALL WELCOME" squad, but with all the best intentions at heart, without the required dps, nobody can do anything about it.The squad will just stall and then we will have posts like this one (if this is not a troll post).I am not saying every dps should dish out metabattle scores, but anything under 10K, imho, you must be afk as a dps.

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Just to add some information:

I never ever used a meta build appearing on SCs site. I almost always take a dps role, but also often heal as a tempest.I'm over 250LI and have done halv the CMs and all normal modes.

I got kicked from groups for low dps maybe once or twice over the last year and that was really to not doing my stuff right, really messing up my play.In the beginning my dps really wasn't that good but now I almost always turn out on the top 3 spots, but it hasn't always been like this.

If benchmark dps on a boss is 20k and you reach 10k you usually won't be kicked, as the bosses have easy enrage timers. But if you really underperform to a 5k level this makes encounters impossible to beat and therefore it's useless to even have you in the team, as having you makes the encounter impossible, and you can't ask for that.

Try the dps golems with agreed buffs. If you reach around 20k you are fine for everything beside some CMs/specific encounters. If you reach 25k you can often top the lists. >30k is not needed and not asked for at all in pugs.

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@Blake.1908 said:1: why are people allowed to see my dps? it is my account and allowing others to see what happens on my account is in my opinion not fair.Because your on a team, and your not entitled to that team carrying you.

@Blake.1908 said:2: if i dont want to run Beserker stats on my warrior (meaning I don't do enough dps) then am I not entitled to get my legendary armor?Your not entitled to the time of your team, you have to earn the time of your 9 teammates by pulling your own weight

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Do you know your own dps? I'm genuinely curious.I suggest you install arcdps, head to the golem and see how much damage you can crank out from start to finish. If you can land between 10 to 15K/s then your dps is adequate for a BS and your squad should not kick you. If you are running under 10K/s I suggest you take a look at your build/gear/rotation and find ways to improve it. You will find arcdps a sort of personal coach that points out your weakness and motivates you to improve.

And regarding the not wanting to run berserkers remark, you either run berserker/assassin for pdps or viper for cdps. You don't need anything else since healing is done for you and a tank will keep the boss distracted for you. Other than that: dodge.

Just keep trying, keep improving and you'll have your legendary armor in notime.

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@Blake.1908 said:i understand that people prefer the tried and trusted and i have no issue with the players in raids, my real issue is the content that is restricted to that, im sure a lot of people want the legendary armor but cant get it because they cannot raid, i would just like to be able to get my armor even if its in a different way or even another armor set that has some good looking features because lets be honest the WvW/pvp armor doesn't look nearly as good as the raid armor, its like they put 0 effort into them. i say add a Pve armor set make it grindy sure i still don't mind, but atleast then i know i am able to obtain it the same way i was able to make 7 legendary weapons

If you want the shiny raid skin, then you have to put in the effort to raid. If you just want non ugly legendary armor, you can craft wvw or pvp then reskin it with your favorite pve cosmetics.

Raid bosses have an enrage timer, meaning they will wipe your group if you dont kill them in time. If you dont deal enough damage, you wont kill them in time. You need to find a build that deals enough damage to beat the timer. Your build right now isnt working for that. Groups have a right to replace you if your personal performance is bad enough to cause failure.

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@voltaicbore.8012 said:

@"Blake.1908" said:i understand that people prefer the tried and trusted and i have no issue with the players in raids, my real issue is the content that is restricted to that, im sure a lot of people want the legendary armor but cant get it because they cannot raid, i would just like to be able to get my armor even if its in a different way or even another armor set that has some good looking features because lets be honest the WvW/pvp armor doesn't look nearly as good as the raid armor, its like they put 0 effort into them. i say add a Pve armor set make it grindy sure i still don't mind, but atleast then i know i am able to obtain it the same way i was able to make 7 legendary weapons

All you're saying is "I want raid-level rewards, but I can't be bothered to raid properly." Sorry man, I really hope that never happens. It's not out of personal spite against you, OP - I don't know you and more importantly I don't care how you play - it's just that I don't like the idea of making exclusive rewards available in every single game mode. I see no difference between that and someone wanting to PvE "grind out" an sPvP title or badge - the game-mode-exclusive rewards become meaningless if you don't even have to touch that game mode to get that reward.The actual solution to this is to provide an entirely crafting-based way to get legendary armor. But we can't do that because... reasons that mysteriously don't apply to legendary weapons somehow.

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Yeah a lot of wvw and pvp players aren't welcome because we usually set ourselves up to defend against things that fight back. Of course anet realized that and time gated it to the point where I almost have a legendary set for each type of armor without ever doing raids. So I figure by the time I finish this last set either some new carrot is coming out or nothing at all.

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@Klypto.1703 said:Yeah a lot of wvw and pvp players aren't welcome because we usually set ourselves up to defend against things that fight back. Of course anet realized that and time gated it to the point where I almost have a legendary set for each type of armor without ever doing raids. So I figure by the time I finish this last set either some new carrot is coming out or nothing at all.

This goes directly contrary to what I have witnessed in game.

Decent spvp and wvw players who understand stats, rotations, class skills and builds usually are very welcome in raids and have a way shorter learning curve and process than pve players. I personally prefer having a spvp or wvw player over a pve player in practice raids, it cuts the explanation time on many things a lot shorter.

Now if you are a spvp and wvw player who does not adapt to the content you play and/or do not have good understanding of your class then yes, you will have issues in raids. In that case, how good of a spvp and wvw player were you to begin with though?

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@Nephalem.8921 said:Arcdps allows me to play power reaper without getting kicked. Without it i wouldn't really be able to do that like in old dungeon days.

I think we played fractals once or twice in the past weeks. You gave my Holo friend a good scare when you creeped up on him with your Reaper. :+1:

Regularly amazing to watch what a dedicated Reaper can do compared to the average FotM Holo, Weaver, DD or DH. SC, dT and MetaBattle are great guidelines but I think too many players follow blindly what is best rather than what is most suited for their playstyle. :shrug:

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@"Blake.1908" said:i have no issue with the players in raids,Your original post says you do have an issue with the players in raids: those who use ArcDPS, those who want the rest of the team to know the mechanics, and so on.

im sure a lot of people want the legendary armor but cant get it because they cannot raid,Legendary armor was designed to be a specific reward for raiding. They've created two ways to obtain its gear-swapping ability outside of raiding; they have promised that they won't introduce an alternative way to get the skin.

lets be honest the WvW/pvp armor doesn't look nearly as good as the raid armor,A lot of people prefer the WvW or PvP skins.

i know i am able to obtain it the same way i was able to make 7 legendary weaponsMany people don't like the idea that anyone can just buy a legendary with gold (generation I) and many don't like the idea that legendary armor is just a matter of grind (gen I & II). "Legendary" to some folks means something requiring more than showing up at the right place on enough occasions.

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@"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:Many people don't like the idea that anyone can just buy a legendary with gold (generation I) and many don't like the idea that legendary armor is just a matter of grind (gen I & II). "Legendary" to some folks means something requiring more than showing up at the right place on enough occasions.Sure, but then you dig deeper, and realize that the envoy armor doesn't fit their definition of "legendary" either.

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im sure a lot of people want the legendary armor but cant get it because they cannot raid,

I'm sure a lot of people want to have lots of money but can't get it because they don't want to acquire needed skills and get experience.Do you see how dumb it sounds? Games aren't book or movies, you're not entitled to anything. All you're entitled to is to have a free access to all the content you paid for. You have free access to raids. It's however only your faul that you're unwilling to pull your own weight.

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@zombyturtle.5980 said:

@Blake.1908 said:i understand that people prefer the tried and trusted and i have no issue with the players in raids, my real issue is the content that is restricted to that, im sure a lot of people want the legendary armor but cant get it because they cannot raid, i would just like to be able to get my armor even if its in a different way or even another armor set that has some good looking features because lets be honest the WvW/pvp armor doesn't look nearly as good as the raid armor, its like they put 0 effort into them. i say add a Pve armor set make it grindy sure i still don't mind, but atleast then i know i am able to obtain it the same way i was able to make 7 legendary weapons

If you want the shiny raid skin, then you have to put in the effort to raid. If you just want non ugly legendary armor, you can craft wvw or pvp then reskin it with your favorite pve cosmetics.

Raid bosses have an enrage timer, meaning they will wipe your group if you dont kill them in time. If you dont deal enough damage, you wont kill them in time. You need to find a build that deals enough damage to beat the timer. Your build right now isnt working for that. Groups have a right to replace you if your personal performance is bad enough to cause failure.

Just an FYI, but PvP is releasing a new shiny skin on November 13, that can be converted into a Legendary status item.

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@Tyson.5160 said:

@Blake.1908 said:i understand that people prefer the tried and trusted and i have no issue with the players in raids, my real issue is the content that is restricted to that, im sure a lot of people want the legendary armor but cant get it because they cannot raid, i would just like to be able to get my armor even if its in a different way or even another armor set that has some good looking features because lets be honest the WvW/pvp armor doesn't look nearly as good as the raid armor, its like they put 0 effort into them. i say add a Pve armor set make it grindy sure i still don't mind, but atleast then i know i am able to obtain it the same way i was able to make 7 legendary weapons

If you want the shiny raid skin, then you have to put in the effort to raid. If you just want non ugly legendary armor, you can craft wvw or pvp then reskin it with your favorite pve cosmetics.

Raid bosses have an enrage timer, meaning they will wipe your group if you dont kill them in time. If you dont deal enough damage, you wont kill them in time. You need to find a build that deals enough damage to beat the timer. Your build right now isnt working for that. Groups have a right to replace you if your personal performance is bad enough to cause failure.

Just an FYI, but PvP is releasing a new shiny skin on November 13, that can be converted into a Legendary status item.But we also know, that the actual legendary unique skins for wvw and spvp aren't going to happen, and that the legendary armor for both of those modes was allowed only under this (no unique skin) requirement. And only because they neither count for already existing legendary armor achievement, nor have they their own achieves.
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@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Blake.1908 said:i understand that people prefer the tried and trusted and i have no issue with the players in raids, my real issue is the content that is restricted to that, im sure a lot of people want the legendary armor but cant get it because they cannot raid, i would just like to be able to get my armor even if its in a different way or even another armor set that has some good looking features because lets be honest the WvW/pvp armor doesn't look nearly as good as the raid armor, its like they put 0 effort into them. i say add a Pve armor set make it grindy sure i still don't mind, but atleast then i know i am able to obtain it the same way i was able to make 7 legendary weapons

If you want the shiny raid skin, then you have to put in the effort to raid. If you just want non ugly legendary armor, you can craft wvw or pvp then reskin it with your favorite pve cosmetics.

Raid bosses have an enrage timer, meaning they will wipe your group if you dont kill them in time. If you dont deal enough damage, you wont kill them in time. You need to find a build that deals enough damage to beat the timer. Your build right now isnt working for that. Groups have a right to replace you if your personal performance is bad enough to cause failure.

Just an FYI, but PvP is releasing a new shiny skin on November 13, that can be converted into a Legendary status item.But we also know, that the actual legendary unique skins for wvw and spvp aren't going to happen, and that the legendary armor for both of those modes was allowed only under this (no unique skin) requirement. And only because they neither count for already existing legendary armor achievement, nor have they their own achieves.

You know, it would be nice if they had their own achievements. The amount of material and work for the PvP and wvw set are no laughing matter.
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@Astralporing.1957 said:

@"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:Many people don't like the idea that anyone can just buy a legendary with gold (generation I) and many don't like the idea that legendary armor is just a matter of grind (gen I & II). "Legendary" to some folks means something requiring more than showing up at the right place on enough occasions.Sure, but then you dig deeper, and realize that the envoy armor doesn't fit their definition of "legendary" either.

Which also speaks against the OP's argument.

The point remains: envoy armor is a skin that was specifically designed as a reward for those committing to so-called challenging group content. For those without inherent interest, there are two choices: don't try it (giving up on the skins) or take a stab (after which one might decide it is fun or that it's worth pushing through or give up on it).

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@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:Many people don't like the idea that anyone can just buy a legendary with gold (generation I) and many don't like the idea that legendary armor is just a matter of grind (gen I & II). "Legendary" to some folks means something requiring more than showing up at the right place on enough occasions.Sure, but then you dig deeper, and realize that the envoy armor doesn't fit their definition of "legendary" either.

Which also speaks against the OP's argument.

The point remains: envoy armor is a skin that was specifically designed as a reward for those committing to so-called challenging group content. For those without inherent interest, there are two choices: don't try it (giving up on the skins) or take a stab (after which one might decide it is fun or that it's worth pushing through or give up on it).

They also have the option of buying raid kills. If you buy just enough to get the collections done, and then just grind to 150 LI from MO,escort, and trio weekly, it only doubles the cost and takes around 10 months. This is a pretty reasonable way for a non-raider to get the armor.

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@Blocki.4931 said:It definitely is an individual thing. If you underperform, having perfect boons might not salvage it. Thing is, if you deal 6k DPS and you play a DPS role you're not going to beat the encounter. It's not really about elitism in that case, it's just actually having a chance to beat something or not. You're not entitled to getting carried by people with actual damage numbers.

It's the bare minimum of you to run the right stats for your role, which is always Berserker or Berserker + Assassin for Power DPS. It doesn't matter if you have one or two parts with different stats, as you will not achieve 100% min maxed numbers anyway, but if you get into raids and bring useless stats like toughness and vitality and it reflects on your numbers, people should definitely call you out on that.

Fun fact, iirc the per person dps to beat vg on timer is around 6k.

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Interesting how the OP made a completely new point, irrelevant to his first one, mid way through the thread, and now everyone talks about legendary armor instead of the topic. We have many threads on that and since the OP didn't acknowledge any of the posts regarding his arcdps problems I assume he understood why he was/is getting kicked by "arcdps users".

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