The fundamental issue with pvp in gw2

[bigo.9037]

in 2012, anet said gw2 would have no healer. we wouldn't need a healer in party cus all classes had their own healing abilities.

fast forward a few years.

anet has created a support healing spec that doubles as a tank. kinda like a paladin in other games. you got heals, and you don't die very easily.

however, in most games that have a spec like this, the healing is usually considerably less, and they aren't as tanky as the "real" tank specs without healing abilities.

however, it seems as though anet has forgotten about this very simple game design. Firebrand is the best support spec because it has so many buffs like stability, protection, condi removal, resistance. you'd think that should be given to a support spec that doesn't have that many heals and isn't necessarily tanky.

Firebrand is ALSO the most effective healer in the game currently... and they are 2nd most tanky in the game too, not very far from spellbreaker.

Anet has created a spec/class that is essentially 3 roles in one:Support(buffs), Healer, and tank.

I know most people in gw2 probably aren't used to having dedicated roles other than dps, firebrand and bruiser, but let me explain the general idea of each of these roles in a traditional mmorpg sense.

Support: apply strong buffs in combat to your team. could be dmg buffs, armor, movement speed. They usually have a bit of AOE CC as well to contribute to the fight. supports tend to have a bit of healing as well, but nothing drastic and much less than the main healing role. they are generally neither squishy nor tanky. this spec usually has a bit of dmg as well. they sit in the middle of the fight dealing dmg to enemies and CC while they keep their buffs to teammates up by some class mechanic.

Healer: simple enough. heal allies. a few long lasting buffs to dmg and armor, but it's only about 5% to each, at most. healing is very good as this is the only real thing this spec excels at. can be both AOE healing and single target. healers are generally very squishy. they die extremely fast unless they do their best at kiting as much as possible away from their opponents who are targeting them. will inevitably die as they cannot kite for very long at a time. they rely on their teammates to protect them when they are focused by enemies. in turn, they can support their allies with heals very well but generally healer is not easy to play as you have to be very good at kiting. low dmg and a little bit of soft CC (slow/cripple etc).

Tank: high armor/health pool, no healing abilities, good amount of hard CC like stuns, daze. has good dmg negation like blocks etc. dmg is decent. shortfall of tank is that their abilities are slow and usually telegraphed.

Firebrand can cover most of these 3 roles in one. they fill the support role by having lots of AOE buffs such as stab, resistance, protection, condi removal, toughness buffs. they also have good utility with projectile shields. they have a bit of hard cc with taunts and knockbacks.they fill out the healer role by having aoe heals.. duh. including signet of water which instaresses an ally. the only good thing here is that they don't have quite as much healing as other heal oriented specs.

they fill the Tank role by having lots of dmg negation with invulnerability, aegis spam, blocks.

Firebrand has basically made the other support build tempest completely useless as they have everything and more.but of course, it's not just firebrand. the main issue here is that this is all possible because we are allowed to use any stats we want. firebrand needs to be toned down yes, but the underlying issue is that it is possible to be all roles in 1 spec just by picking stats that give both tankyness AND healing power at the same time. if you want both of those, you should be considerably worse in both aspects than someone who does one thing or the other.

[Airdive.2613]

"My issue with firebrand in GW 2".I don't think you've really considered "cleric"-type classes of other games. They could be all you say and worse.At least tanky-support-healing firebrands still have the lowest base health pool in the game (and they can't overheal) and moderate damage output. Remember druids self-stacking might?If you want tempest buffed, you better say just that.

[reikken.4961]

That is not a fundamental issue. It is is very class and build specific.

[bigo.9037]

@"reikken.4961" said:That is not a fundamental issue. It is is very class and build specific.

obviously I disagree. the issue is much more apparent in wvw as well where people can stack any stats they want.I don't think it's good design that a "healing" or "support" spec should have that much armor and dmg mitigation.

I wouldn't say this is class specific, because FB just happens to highlight the issue with stats more so than any other spec.

[ChillyKoti.1928]

As my Warrior, if the Firebrand is alone, I kill him/her rather easily. If I am the Firebrand, I die easily XD. But if a problem should be fixed, it should be fixed in the Firebrand Elite Spec only and not to all of the Guardian profession. Probably just reduce the healing and boon potential of Firebrand (like in the Tomes) a bit can fix this problem. Don't reduce the "tank" side of Firebrand though, It will affect the whole Guardian profession and with the fact that this profession only have 11k HP base.

Paladins in general RPG games I played tends to be somewhat powerfull, nice heal, nice tank and nice dammage. However, they do not support with buff very often (not in the games I played.)

Wants to nerf something? Look at some potentially too strong things in the precise spec. Not the whole profession.

[SoulSin.5682]

Lets talk about PvP here.

FireBrand is not a Tank. It has good damage mitigation, yes, but if you burst down a FB in Tome of Justice they go down as fast any squish build.Plus, as any FireBrand already knows, your DPS contribution to the team is minimal.

FB + Necro works because the second excess at damage to cover both players, but in a team without proper DPS, the FB can stagnate a fight but can't really change the tides.

[sephiroth.4217]

@SoulSin.5682 said:Lets talk about PvP here.

FireBrand is not a Tank. It has good damage mitigation, yes, but if you burst down a FB in Tome of Justice they go down as fast any squish build.Plus, as any FireBrand already knows, your DPS contribution to the team is minimal.

FB + Necro works because the second excess at damage to cover both players, but in a team without proper DPS, the FB can stagnate a fight but can't really change the tides.

I dunno man... Ive changed the tides as FB more times than I can count and I play a variety of amulets ranging from Harrier to Menders to even Sage... Sage is fun when you end up being the healer, tank, boonbot, rezbot and dps carry.

[Ovark.2514]

I used to get so frustrated with FB when it came out but now I DESTROY a support FB with pretty much any of my offensive specs (including a glass tempest no less). They are a problem in that they force out a lot of offensive builds that would otherwise see play. It's also incredibly frustrating when a team has more than one because of how easily they can bounce allies back to life (including each other). I think FB is pretty much fine as it is as long as the revive trait and signet are removed/changed.

[reikken.4961]

yeah making the revive signet faster cast than the others was a mistake. especially since FB can self quickness so easily, making it even faster