condition builds require way more skill than cheesy power burst ones

[incisorr.9502]

I get insulted daily for playing a condi build for whatever reason. Condi mirage = get flamed, condi thief which i cant even play cus im not that good at thief = get flamed "CONDI THIEF NOOB LOL" , condi engi = get flamed.It's always been like this and for some reason people try to "imply" that condi is lame or overpowered which is why they even call you out on it in the first place but in reality that's not even remotely the case ?I was arguing in game that condi requires more skill cus you need to do 30 things to dwindle down your opponent and with power you just cheesily 1shot them before they can even react (revenant,guard, thief,reaper for example) and you know what some guy said ? "YOU CAN DODGE POWER BURSTS" LMAO BTW the intelligence on some players, cus apparently you can't dodge condition damage and apparently you're a prophet and know when a guy is going to power burst you out of stealth or with a teleport from a wall

The reason why CC is op and the reason why in turn based games playing things that deny your opponent from playing is op because not giving your enemy any chance to react is op and condition is literally the exact opposite of that -~your enemy has all chances to react cus he can > cleanse, resistance, dodge. If you die to condi it happens over time and you have time to do something about it.~Meanwhile against power - you can't cleanse power, you can't resistance power either and you can just dodge it if you even know its happening cus this game has enough of things to make it so that you don't know its happening . On top of that your teammates can cleanse conditions for you and you can even convert conditions into boons but your teammates CANT dodge for you against power and healing works against both types of damage. There are way more ways to shut down condition than there are ways to shut down power, there are way more power build players in top 50-100 of the ladder (actually would probably be 90%+ power against 10% condi at best)on top of that there are unblockable hits which are usually power damage and most of the power damage skills don't require a target unlike condi ones (talking about wep skills directly)

against condi you can actually play the game and do things, against power half of the time you get oneshot if you get ganked or zerged and then you have 3000 people still whining about condi non-stop cause condi is a noob killer and cause it also punishes greedy builds and that's all there is to it

even in this forum the amount of condi mirage QQ is insane when in reality and in game playing power mirage is much easier than playing condi mirage lol. I can beat your condi mirage 95% of the time + (feel free to take me up on my challenge and see how far you get) but against power? there will be occasional duels where you just get a random 1shot burst to which it can't be reacted which literally proves my point, that it doesn't require as much skill to pull off

i'm not saying condi should be buffed, i'm saying power should be nerfed. It's ridiculous and its 10 times easier to play, most of the skills require no target, do way too much damage and have way too little counterplay . The "power creep" really hit gw2 hard imo cus over time they felt like they should add stronger and better new things and now we're stuck with 16k dmg backstabs out of stealth or 18k deaths judgements from 1500 range which is unblockable or 20k dmg bursts from guards who teleport thru 3 walls or revenant doing 20k dmg with shackling wave with daggers on , obviously after a tp thru 3 walls. Meanwhile if you drop 20 confusion stacks and 20 torment stacks on someone as a mesmer he can literally press one button to undo all of it and then for some reason it's still condi getting all the hate on the forum , simply because people make greedy builds and get punished for it

imo the only problematic condi is builds that can spam weakness (necro) cus weakness hard-counters power and it also counters dodges and in general everything in the game, it's too broken and now there are too many weaknesses thrown all over the place while a few years ago that was a "hard to get "debuff cus it was scarce but it was good so it felt more fair, now it's just spammed everywhere..

[EthanLightheart.9168]

Yeash scourges need so much skill.... omg come on

[Liewec.2896]

there are a butt load of counters to power damage,hell, even a base stat, Toughness reduces it, but does nothing to stop condi damage.Protection is widespread through the classes and reduces power damage by a large chunk, there is no similar boon for condis.Weakness is also common throughout classes and reduces power damage by a large chunk, there is no similar condition that reduces a players condi damage.plus there is no chance involved, you don't need to stack ferocity and precision in order to do damage because you don't need to rely on crits,if you click a skill that says it deals 8k burning damage, you don't need a lucky crit, that is the damage it will do.(unless cleansed or the target has one of the few instances of resistance)this lets you spec to be much more tanky, in order to deal immense damage as a power build you need to stack power, ferocity and precisionso you are usually required to be a glass cannon.all it takes to deal high condi damage is the condi damage stat, leaving plenty of room for vitality, healing and toughness.

[Crab Fear.1624]

Dot and run will never be seen as skill

[incisorr.9502]

@Liewec.2896 said:there are a butt load of counters to power damage,hell, even a base stat, Toughness reduces it, but does nothing to stop condi damage.Protection is widespread through the classes and reduces power damage by a large chunk, there is no similar boon for condis.Weakness is also common throughout classes and reduces power damage by a large chunk, there is no similar condition that reduces a players condi damage.plus there is no chance involved, you don't need to stack ferocity and precision in order to do damage because you don't need to rely on crits,if you click a skill that says it deals 8k burning damage, you don't need a lucky crit, that is the damage it will do.(unless cleansed or the target has one of the few instances of resistance)this lets you spec to be much more tanky, in order to deal immense damage as a power build you need to stack power, ferocity and precisionso you are usually required to be a glass cannon.all it takes to deal high condi damage is the condi damage stat, leaving plenty of room for vitality, healing and toughness.

if you go full condition dmg with 0 power you're not gonna kill anyone. I'm using wizard amulet instead deadshot one simply cause having + power is an absolute must , unless you want to get destroyed by a single guard in the enemy team

there are many ways to reduce condi dmg as they added skills that reduce incoming condi dmg as passives or actives

protection isn't widespread, AT ALL. Lol. It's limited to certain trait lines or a very few skills for most classes and most of these trait lines arent good apart from the protection, for most classes.

You're required to be glass cannon? All power builds have room for protection or toughness. Even power mirage can have protection while condi one can't, unless you're playing chaos which is just not as good as the alternative

@EthanLightheart.9168 said:Yeash scourges need so much skill.... omg come on

yes it does, if you think it doesn't then come fight me in game while you play scourge

@Crab Fear.1624 said:Dot and run will never be seen as skill

yea cus cleanse doesn't exist rightbut stealth and 17k backstab is skilled right-oor pressing 2 on guard and doing 20k dmg with rng procs while having 21k hp , perma full boons and condi removal and retaliation

[Crab Fear.1624]

@Crab Fear.1624 said:Dot and run will never be seen as skill

yea cus cleanse doesn't exist rightbut stealth and 17k backstab is skilled right-oor pressing 2 on guard and doing 20k dmg with rng procs while having 21k hp , perma full boons and condi removal and retaliation

so no one has skill. we just all mash our keyboards. mashity mash mash.....mash mash

[Lord Trejgon.2809]

@"incisorr.9502" said:~Meanwhile against power - you can't cleanse power, you can't resistance power either and you can just dodge it

let's make small comparision in here, shall we?

Boons directly affecting incoming power damage:Protection: -33% incoming power damageAegis: completely block next hit (reduces power damage to 0, unless lul unblockable)

Boons directly affecting incoming condi damage:Resistance (ignore all condis)

Debuffs directly affecting outgoing power damage:weaknessblind

Debuffs directly affecting outgoing condi damage:none.

and that's on global level without even delving into profession specific gimmicks like full counter nullifying power damage to nothing for a hit....

there is alot more active defences in game against power damage (and as pointed out - passive too - toughness reduces incoming damage while vitality gives you buffer to live throught it, while only vitality out of these two benefits survivability against condi.) So while at extreme certain power builds can achieve "one-combo-ko" in overal power build needs you to actively stay onto enemy to pressure it - while condi build let's you just come in once in a while, apply crapload of dots, and then disengage while still leaving pressure constantly applied unless enemy manage to cleanse or resistance it. Which is why some of players are not liking condi cheesers.

[MithranArkanere.8957]

Skill is not determined by whether you go power of condition.

It's determined by your exact complete build, gear and all, and the enemy you are facing.

[Damocles.4908]

I get where you coming from with this however its much easier to land condi burst with pof than core so to do 30 things is a bit of an over reaction.

I mean facing a condi mariage i get about 14 stack confusion 8 torment constant blindness and 3 other stuff in a very short period...i wish i could do that with a core warrior when usings swords but the mech for flurry requires alot of hope that it will land its strikes and finish...even that only adds like 8 stack bleed only...

[Artemis Thuras.8795]

I thought I was having deja vu, til i realised the condi/power in this were the opposite way around.

[whoknocks.4935]

@Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

@"incisorr.9502" said:~Meanwhile against power - you can't cleanse power, you can't resistance power either and you can just dodge it

let's make small comparision in here, shall we?

Boons directly affecting incoming power damage:Protection: -33% incoming power damageAegis: completely block next hit (reduces power damage to 0, unless lul unblockable)

Boons directly affecting incoming condi damage:Resistance (ignore all condis)

Debuffs directly affecting outgoing power damage:weaknessblind

Debuffs directly affecting outgoing condi damage:none.

and that's on global level without even delving into profession specific gimmicks like full counter nullifying power damage to nothing for a hit....

there is alot more active defences in game against power damage (and as pointed out - passive too - toughness reduces incoming damage while vitality gives you buffer to live throught it, while only vitality out of these two benefits survivability against condi.) So while at extreme certain power builds can achieve "one-combo-ko" in overal power build needs you to actively stay onto enemy to pressure it - while condi build let's you just come in once in a while, apply crapload of dots, and then disengage while still leaving pressure constantly applied unless enemy manage to cleanse or resistance it. Which is why some of players are not liking condi cheesers.

So why if I'm blinded and try to land my skill which inflict condis it will say miss? Didn't you say no debuffs affecting condis?Aegis and blocks can prevent condis being applied to you, didn't you know that?There is no such thing like unblockable condis.

Let's make a quick comparison of actual builds which are pure condi and not completely trash and works:

1. Scourge.
2. Condi mirage.

Yeah, we are done... only 2 specs out of all specs works as condi.

Condi thief is a meme build who got nerfed a lot and it's not a problem for good players, condi soulbeast doesn't exist even tho soulbeast seemed a condi focused spec, renegade works better in power than in condi even tho shortbow, burn guard meme build, berserker condi only good in pve, condi engi another meme build.

Then you see the power meta builds:HolosmithSpellbreaker in 2 variants both powerShiro revCore guardThief daredevil or core or deadeyeBoonbeastReaper

And i don't see personally the difference between a scourge spamming shades in mid and activating the F skills and a reaper who goes shroud in mid and spam shroud skills, probably reaper is actually easier to play and to get results with than scourge because without a firebrand scourge is paper.

And same as power burst, condi burst can be avoided with dodges, blocks, evades, blinds and kiting, if you kite well a scourge you can kill him with 99% health remaining.

People complain about condis because they are noob against condis.

For example only good and experienced players know that if you have 2 skills:

1. First skills says remove burn torment and poison.
2. Second skill says remove 3 conditions.

The right order to cleanse is before using the specific condi removing skill, so the first skill and only after the generic skill which removes 3 condis or maybe the generic one removes burn and torment leaving you chilled and crippled and the specific one remove only poison.

[KrHome.1920]

@"incisorr.9502" said:i'm not saying condi should be buffed, i'm saying power should be nerfed. It's ridiculous and its 10 times easier to playYou did not understand that it's about builds and not damage types.

Condi mesmer is not broken because it applies condis but the type of condis (punishing movement and skill activation) while itself being extremely mobile and evasive. Opponents have to move and burst to counter it which is exactly what its specific condis do punish.

Condi thief is just dot and run. It's the most lame and skill-less playstyle possible.

Other condi specs - not even the infamous condi scourge - are really broken at the moment.

I get insulted daily for playing a condi build for whatever reason. Condi mirage = get flamed, condi thief which i cant even play cus im not that good at thief = get flamed "CONDI THIEF NOOB LOL" , condi engi = get flamedCondi mesmer and condi thief have probably the lowest skill floor in the game and are in fact noob specs. Nevertheless I don't understand why you are getting flamed for playing condi engineer. Did I miss something that this spec is suddenly overpowered?

[Alatar.7364]

Can't believe what I just endured reading.Do you realize that by those deceptions, half-truths and alibism you are using to defend something you love, something that everybody knows (and proven) to be totally broken, you are hurting the game? You are intentionaly damaging the community by desperately trying to keep something that is so unhealthy.I am gonna go ahead and guess this is all because you main Condi Mirage and you can't put up with the fact that most people already figured out there is almost no skill involved and you simply freaked out when you faced that reality.I originally made a long post adressing enterity of your Post but I realized there is so so so so much wrong with your post with so much personal bias in it, that I canceled it as it would be totally pointless arguing.

[Lord Trejgon.2809]

@whoknocks.4935 said:

@Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

@"incisorr.9502" said:~Meanwhile against power - you can't cleanse power, you can't resistance power either and you can just dodge it

let's make small comparision in here, shall we?

Boons directly affecting incoming power damage:Protection: -33% incoming power damageAegis: completely block next hit (reduces power damage to 0, unless lul unblockable)

Boons directly affecting incoming condi damage:Resistance (ignore all condis)

Debuffs directly affecting outgoing power damage:weaknessblind

Debuffs directly affecting outgoing condi damage:none.

and that's on global level without even delving into profession specific gimmicks like full counter nullifying power damage to nothing for a hit....

there is alot more active defences in game against power damage (and as pointed out - passive too - toughness reduces incoming damage while vitality gives you buffer to live throught it, while only vitality out of these two benefits survivability against condi.) So while at extreme certain power builds can achieve "one-combo-ko" in overal power build needs you to actively stay onto enemy to pressure it - while condi build let's you just come in once in a while, apply crapload of dots, and then disengage while still leaving pressure constantly applied unless enemy manage to cleanse or resistance it. Which is why some of players are not liking condi cheesers.

So why if I'm blinded and try to land my skill which inflict condis it will say miss? Didn't you say no debuffs affecting condis?Aegis and blocks can prevent condis being applied to you, didn't you know that?

directly affecting condis - the wording there was chosen very carefully ;)

the big difference is that on power build if you blind just before big meaty hit you can nullify huge chunk of burst right there (same case for aegis).in comparision there is no such thing like "big meaty hit" for condi equivalent.

also no Aegis nor blocks will affect condis already applied.

There is no such thing like unblockable condis.

if you want to argue all condis are unblockables - with advantage that certain boon makes you invulnerable to them.

Let's make a quick comparison of actual builds which are pure condi and not completely trash and works:

1. Scourge.
2. Condi mirage.

Oh common and didn't even mention Condi thiefs?geeze kids these days ;)

Yeah, we are done... only 2 specs out of all specs works as condi.

also condi guards used to be a thing, was kinda lakcluster tho in the past due to only one damaging condi which gets easilly countered by purging. condi firebrand is slightly better for having access to bleeds, and then hell, casuall 2k per tick burns.

Condi thief is a meme build who got nerfed a lot and it's not a problem for good players,oh you didn't forget about condi thiefs ^-^here is a random bit of trivia for you - there was a time that on my randomly assembled guard build I was wreckign power thiefs easilly,and only tsruggled against condi thiefs - you know why? because first one required to be revealed to attack me while the other could just outcondi my cleanses (and had alot of them) and then mantain the condi pressure without even being in there anymore.

Heck the only reason you have seen rise of power thief builds into relevance is due to certain builds being able to one-combo most classes - before that is was easilly counterable crap - as opposed to condi thief.

condi soulbeast doesn't exist even tho soulbeast seemed a condi focused spec,hybrid, not pure condi. Soulbeast has always had strenghts towards both power and condi.renegade works better in power than in condi even tho shortbow, burn guard meme build, berserker condi only good in pve, condi engi another meme build.

didn't check on renegade won't comment on that one...OH COMMON

you can't just discard every viable condi build aside from most broken ones as "meme builds" this is not how the game works.

Then you see the power meta builds:Holosmithpower specSpellbreaker in 2 variants both poweranother power specShiro revyup that's also power spec - also note in here is that "shiro rev" is not even singular build.....Core guardstill can be build for hybrid/condi despite most famous one recently being popular for power comboThief daredevil or core or deadeyenot sure how for deadeye bu daredevil can be easilly build into condis - grab dual daggers, fit in lotus training grandmaster and see magic happen....Boonbeastwon't comment on this oneReaper

power spec again (the time of condi reaper was essentialy mistake)And i don't see personally the difference between a scourge spamming shades in mid and activating the F skills and a reaper who goes shroud in mid and spam shroud skills, probably reaper is actually easier to play and to get results with than scourge because without a firebrand scourge is paper.

reaper is melee character, scourge has noticeably more range and area denial. Although Reaper has better sustain there both get countered by same tactic insPvP/small scale - by keeping them at arms lenght (or to put it into straight forward way instead of methaphores - by keeping them outside of their ranges - easilly doable by many sPvP builds and works just as well against both power reaper and condi scourge (btw I have heard many scourges shifted to hybrid recently) so this is not exacly perfect comparision out there)

And same as power burst, condi burst can be avoided with dodges, blocks, evades, blinds and kiting, if you kite well a scourge you can kill him with 99% health remaining.

I'd like to point out in here that "condi burst" is already something that was not supposed to happen by design - power was supposed to be bursty and condi is all about sustained damage over time.

and big chunk of condi builds (including aforementioned condi thief) relies not on "burst" but on reapplying DoTs for constant pressure - which seems very easy on paper (and seems so easy that even I can pull that trick off to the point where only classes my condi thief is afraid of in 1v1 are either mesmers or can deliver great deal of punishment in melee range

People complain about condis because they are noob against condis.

and people complain about power because they are noob against power......

but truth remains that good condi build can still have pressure applied to you long after dude applying pressure went off to the other side of sPvP map.

For example only good and experienced players know that if you have 2 skills:

1. First skills says remove burn torment and poison.
2. Second skill says remove 3 conditions.

The right order to cleanse is before using the specific condi removing skill, so the first skill and only after the generic skill which removes 3 condis or maybe the generic one removes burn and torment leaving you chilled and crippled and the specific one remove only poison.

I'll disagree in here - everyone capable of logical thinking will know what is the "proper" order of using these two skills in cases where you have crapload of everything on you - what needs experience/skills in this aspect is ability to execute - less experienced players tend to panic and misclick skills in situation of great danger (and having pretty much every condi on you usually is one of those situations.

And I still believe you are greatly underapreciating counters toward power damage and still am of opinion that your (very broad and risky while at it) thesis of condi builds requiring more skill to pull off sucessfully is untrue.

@KrHome.1920 said:Condi mesmer and condi thief have probably the lowest skill floor in the game and are in fact noob specs. Nevertheless I don't understand why you are getting flamed for playing condi engineer. Did I miss something that this spec is suddenly overpowered?

GUILTY AS CHARGED!I only made that condi daredevil for ezy OPIE roamin' in WvW!unfortunatelly I made it just one expac late prolly, since alot of PoF especs are rolling my face off when I try to melee them :/

buuuut hey looking on the bright side dagger storm is evade frame now- I can finally pursue my dream of perma evade non-stealth thief build \o/

as for condi engineers......

wait a moment?

THERE IS SUCH THING LIKE CONDI ENGINEER?!

[sephiroth.4217]

@Crab Fear.1624 said:Dot and run will never be seen as skill

@MithranArkanere.8957 said:Skill is not determined by whether you go power of condition.

It's determined by your exact complete build, gear and all, and the enemy you are facing.

I'm skilled...

I see someone like Vallun doing a 2v1, I go in and +3 to last hit him, I beat Vallun. I am Skilled.

[Crab Fear.1624]

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:Dot and run will never be seen as skill

@MithranArkanere.8957 said:Skill is not determined by whether you go power of condition.

It's determined by your exact complete build, gear and all, and the enemy you are facing.

I'm skilled...

I see someone like Vallun doing a 2v1, I go in and +3 to last hit him, I beat Vallun. I am Skilled.

crop everyone out, or angle the camera just right. then post on the forums and brag

[SteepledHat.1345]

Literally nothing in this game requires skill.

[sephiroth.4217]

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:Dot and run will never be seen as skill

@MithranArkanere.8957 said:Skill is not determined by whether you go power of condition.

It's determined by your exact complete build, gear and all, and the enemy you are facing.

I'm skilled...

I see someone like Vallun doing a 2v1, I go in and +3 to last hit him, I beat Vallun. I am Skilled.

crop everyone out, or angle the camera just right. then post on the forums and brag

It was easiest 1v1 of my life, he went down in one hit!

Sorry @Vallun.2071 , you've been outskilled.

[Tiah.3091]

Idk, speaking for ALL THE CONDI BUILDS in a single post is kinda wrong.

1) There are builds, which apply long multiple conditions with very limited amount of stacks. Like Scourge, for example.It's harder to cleanse, because there are really a lot of them and cleanse is usually 1-2 condi at a time. But at least it won't kill you outright - you have plenty of time to deal with it or run away.2) There are builds, which apply a single but very powerful condition, like burning. Like Firebrand for example. But they can reapply it quite easily after cleanse and the stack amount is high. So you have to cleanse constantly.3) And finally, there's condi mirage, who can apply a HUGE amount of stacks of VARIOUS conditions (like 10-15 stacks of confusion, 10-15 bleed, 10-15 torment and 3-6 burning, depending on a build). All 4 at the same time. Albeit, for a VERY short time (1-3 seconds usually).Which in fact is kinda fucking HARD to cleanse (because the important condies are protected by other condies - same as Scourge, but shorter duration and more intense)Which results, basically, in a CONDI BURST.2 ticks of confusion for 3k each, 2 ticks of burning for 1k each, 2 ticks of torment for 2k each, 2 ticks of bleeding for 1.5k each. And BOOM! -- SUDDENLY target loses 15k hp (unmitigated by toughness/protection/weakness) in a matter of 2 seconds.

My point, is that condi cleanse in its current state (where most cleanses are 1-2 stacks at a time) is not SUPER effective at countering mirage condi-burst.

Also, add there's another important factor, that a decent percentage of condi mirages are not in fact pure condi, but are instead HYBRIDS. Who are also capable of quite a nice power damage with crits and whatnot. ON TOP of that 15k per 2s condi-burst bomb.Scepter-3 with Viper amu hits for 8k on light armor. Yeah, it's easy to dodge and all that, but 8k is not a fucking joke.

The only reliable counter to power mirage condi-bombs is extremely well-placed resistance. And killing clones as fast as possible. And not all builds out there have that.

[whoknocks.4935]

@Lord Trejgon.2809 said:When I mentioned holosmith, boonbeast, spellbreaker, shiro rev, core guard.All those are power specs who dominates the meta, the only 2 condi specs are scourge and mirage.

Scourge and mirage received quite a bit of nerfs and tune downs, things like condi thief completely shifted out from the meta, and now power damage dominates, and it's far from being more skilled gameplay, because when an holo can spam autos for 3k-4k you understand something is wrong.

And about condi burst, you get condi bursted only if you eat multiple skills at the same time, for example if you stand still inside shades don't dodge out of it, it's normal you get punished, what do you expect to receive only 1 stack of torment and poison which vanish in 3 seconds?

Same as you dodge power damage, now dodge condi burst as well.But if you think holo cc spam and 3k autos are somewhat skilled gameplay to pull off maybe we play a different game.

[Miles Smiles.8951]

@Crab Fear.1624 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:Dot and run will never be seen as skill

yea cus cleanse doesn't exist rightbut stealth and 17k backstab is skilled right-oor pressing 2 on guard and doing 20k dmg with rng procs while having 21k hp , perma full boons and condi removal and retaliation

so no one has skill. we just all mash our keyboards. mashity mash mash.....mash mash

why mash keyboard with your fingers, just roll your face over it

[rank eleven monk.9502]

We had the exact same threads the other way around during condi meta OMEGALUL

Circle of life

[MithranArkanere.8957]

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@Crab Fear.1624 said:Dot and run will never be seen as skill

@"MithranArkanere.8957" said:Skill is not determined by whether you go power of condition.

It's determined by your exact complete build, gear and all, and the enemy you are facing.

I'm skilled...

I see someone like Vallun doing a 2v1, I go in and +3 to last hit him, I beat Vallun. I am Skilled.

Yes. That's part of the rotation tactics that win matches, keep points controlled by your team by maintaining an advantage over the enemy. That is , indeed, skill. It's called "tactical awareness" by some "opportunism" by others. But it gets you points, and points get you a win. So it is skill, if you win the match thanks to it.

[tinyreborn.1938]

@Tiah.3091 said:2 ticks of confusion for 3k each, 2 ticks of burning for 1k each, 2 ticks of torment for 2k each, 2 ticks of bleeding for 1.5k each. And BOOM! -- SUDDENLY target loses 15k hp (unmitigated by toughness/protection/weakness) in a matter of 2 seconds.Was that on raid boss ? Otherwise how do you land 20 torment/20 bleed/20 confusions/3-4 burns instant?My point, is that condi cleanse in its current state (where most cleanses are 1-2 stacks at a time) is not SUPER effective at countering mirage condi-burst.Where did go those cleanses that remove 3-5 or every single condition ? Stealthremoved or you prefer to not mention it?

[phs.6089]

I just wonder when and how condi ENGIE gets flamed? o.O