Hang in there

[rng.1024]

In light of the incoming sigil/rune revamp, I wanted to emphasize something that was said (that I believe the entire systems team agree on) about on hit-effects:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/november-13-salvage-runes-and-sigils/

Dubious advantages like gaining aegis when you’re struck can actually encourage you to get hit. This feels odd, and is even worse when getting hit isn’t guaranteed to give you that benefit.

Sound familiar? This also applies to ele auras. With the icd on them, you can't even properly get the constant benefit either.

I believe this to be positive news, mostly because the bonus balance patch seemed to be a functionality change more than a fix (because the new aura mechanic is.. clunky at best), setting the stage for a rework. This post atleast to me confirms that they are looking into options, so I'm looking forward to the next balance pass and the future of auras.

[Jski.6180]

There real fear that its going to make anet nerf staff ele.

[rng.1024]

@Jski.6180 said:There real fear that its going to make anet nerf staff ele.

It's ever present. Why only staff though? Not sure what more they can do to it at this point :o

[MyPuppy.8970]

There are too much ele skills and traits that requires the squishiest class to be hit. I think the changes will only affect runes, but I wish their reasonning could extend to eles situation. Actualy auras were meant to dissuade your enemies from hitting you, but only magnetic aura fills that purpose. Fire "Shield"? Not so much.

[Jski.6180]

@rng.1024 said:

@Jski.6180 said:There real fear that its going to make anet nerf staff ele.

It's ever present. Why only staff though? Not sure what more they can do to it at this point :o

It dose dmg in pve so it gets nerf in all other game types and now its going to get a means of 100% crit and good quikness up time where else is that going to go? Anet is no longer trust worthy when it comes to ele balancing realty any type of balancing.

[Tommo Chocolate.5870]

@"MyPuppy.8970" said:There are too much ele skills and traits that requires the squishiest class to be hit. I think the changes will only affect runes, but I wish their reasonning could extend to eles situation. Actualy auras were meant to dissuade your enemies from hitting you, but only magnetic aura fills that purpose. Fire "Shield"? Not so much.

Yep, every ele specialisation except Fire has a trait that triggers when struck or something similar (and Fire has two relating to Fire Aura). The worst offender is probably Soothing Ice which requires you to be struck twice - once to gain Frost Aura, and a second time for that Frost Aura to actually do something.

Effects that trigger when struck make perfect sense in a game where you will definitely get hit (like almost every other RPG). But they don't make sense in GW2, especially for a class like ele with low armour and HP and little access to blocks.

[Mithos.9023]

@Tommo Chocolate.5870 said:Yep, every ele specialisation except Fire has a trait that triggers when struck or something similar (and Fire has two relating to Fire Aura). The worst offender is probably Soothing Ice which requires you to be struck twice - once to gain Frost Aura, and a second time for that Frost Aura to actually do something.

Effects that trigger when struck make perfect sense in a game where you will definitely get hit (like almost every other RPG). But they don't make sense in GW2, especially for a class like ele with low armour and HP and little access to blocks.

I wondered about this since release of the game, why does ele have a mechanic with auras where you need to be struck? From all classes ele is the one where I simply never want to get hit at all. With the current low defense and low hp this always felt strange.

I mean if a champion swings his club at you, you could A; dodge or B; take the hit and activate an aura before it. I doubt I have to say which is the obvious choice.

[rng.1024]

Considering the theme of tempest, I believe auras would be better served as a 240 radius pulsing AoE, with 3 seconds of pulsing it's effect and automatic detonation on the 4th pulse.

Even Berserker's fire aura detonation was done better, it's impactful, instant, rely on it's own skilltype and it makes sense.

Getting hit always was the elementalist thing, my guess is because it's designed for hybrid gear (which is why bunker weaver get so much value from these). Too bad defensive gear makes no difference anymore.

[MyPuppy.8970]

That's why i always call elementalist a masochistic class: squishiest, many "when struck" features, people still playing it despite nerfs, imbalances, and overall relative class innefficiency (edit: me included).

[Jski.6180]

@rng.1024 said:Considering the theme of tempest, I believe auras would be better served as a 240 radius pulsing AoE, with 3 seconds of pulsing it's effect and automatic detonation on the 4th pulse.

Even Berserker's fire aura detonation was done better, it's impactful, instant, rely on it's own skilltype and it makes sense.

Getting hit always was the elementalist thing, my guess is because it's designed for hybrid gear (which is why bunker weaver get so much value from these). Too bad defensive gear makes no difference anymore.

The theme of tempest is the last hot rushed class that no one put real work into. I am still at a lost how dead eye and rev got real reworks before tempest the class that was going to have sword main hand but did not because there was not enofe time for it and was giving a WH because its the lowest animations wepon in the game. There is nothing left to hang in there for there has not been for years. The ele community is effectually the same 20 or so ppl saying the same things over and over and most of them have moved on.

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

They also should reconsider the icd of aura's effect.I mean you do a 10 hits attack with quickness against Fiery Shield, why should you get only 3 fire ? Same for shocking aura : you have one stack of stab, you lose it / or you BS and you have 2 free secondes to burst ignoring the effect. It's a nonsense, auras are absolutely not deterrent.

[Emberheart.8426]

@Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:They also should reconsider the icd of aura's effect.I mean you do a 10 hits attack with quickness against Fiery Shield, why should you get only 3 fire ? Same for shocking aura : you have one stack of stab, you lose it / or you BS and you have 2 free secondes to burst ignoring the effect. It's a nonsense, auras are absolutely not deterrent.

When it's an effect that benefits the ele like auras, it needs an icd. When it is a counter to ele like retaliation, it needs no icd. Seriously, retaliation in WvW zergs is pretty busted against ele sometimes. I'd understand the icd though if the effect was incredibly powerful, and even hitting once meant getting significantly punished.

[MyPuppy.8970]

@Ganathar.4956 said:

@Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:They also should reconsider the icd of aura's effect.I mean you do a 10 hits attack with quickness against Fiery Shield, why should you get only 3 fire ? Same for shocking aura : you have one stack of stab, you lose it / or you BS and you have 2 free secondes to burst ignoring the effect. It's a nonsense, auras are absolutely not deterrent.

When it's an effect that benefits the ele like auras, it needs an icd. When it is a counter to ele like retaliation, it needs no icd. Seriously, retaliation in WvW zergs is pretty busted against ele sometimes. I'd understand the icd though if the effect was incredibly powerful, and even hitting once meant getting significantly punished.

Hitting ele is ok, ele hitting himself is ok, ele hitting others: icd on meteors, no icd on retal.Edit: SB popping FC? Don't hit. Stow weapon. Or dodge because of some stupid random aoe/pet/clone/whatever fart.Ele popping aura? Who cares? Just 2-hit him.

[rng.1024]

Yeah the icd's have to go in order for auras to have a chance. Would be fun if ele (since we're the only ones who need it because of our role) got a way to counter retal - either static reduction under active effect/boon, or a stacking effect of sorts.

The problem with ele is this:It's effects on their own are rather terrible - but can be built to shine, albeit at the cost of everything else.

Let's take Shocking Aura. Untraited it is meh, if your enemy got stab even more so. Then add:

• Tempest Defence
• Lightning Rod
• Invigorationg Torrents
• Elemental Bastion
• Powerful Aura
• Sigil of of Draining
• Sigil of Severance

And you get an awfully loaded skill with extremely high damage potential, survivability and team utility. This is reminiscent of how the core guardian has just resurfaced, since it too can overperform when focused on 1 thing only.

Another problem is availability. A warriors Shield Stance can give him 25 might no icd. Why? Because he can only use it every 20 seconds. When it comes to fire auras, tempest has the potential , again if built in a very specific way, to get near 100% uptime on it, even then it requires timing because they don't stack duration - so naturally the potency of fire auras are now reflecting that. Which is just terrible design, all skills and choices should be impactful, especially now when we have warrs, engis and revs running about pumping 25 might stacks every fight.

We suffer because we have so many potential builds that can abuse, so in order to keep the profession in line overall the base abilities are so nerfed that they become useless unless built for. What they didn't take into account was the set nature of our traitlines, meaning we always have to sacrifice something. We can always spec 100% for something, but the we'll have to sacrifice too much defense. So we settle with 50/50, and this is the problem. Now we do everything mediocre instead of being able to excel at something. Which I guess was anets intent, bringing to mind "jack of all trades, master of none". Question is what are we going to use it for in this meta of extremes?

[MyPuppy.8970]

What are sigils of draining and severance? Nevermind i'll wiki that.Edit: hmmm they look sweet, maybe i should pve/wvw more.

[rng.1024]

@MyPuppy.8970 said:What are sigils of draining and severance? Nevermind i'll wiki that.Edit: hmmm they look sweet, maybe i should pve/wvw more.

Also a fair point actually, as splits/gear availability further emphasizes elementalist issues in PvP :p

[Yannir.4132]

@"rng.1024" said:In light of the incoming sigil/rune revamp, I wanted to emphasize something that was said (that I believe the entire systems team agree on) about on hit-effects:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/november-13-salvage-runes-and-sigils/

Sound familiar? This also applies to ele auras. With the icd on them, you can't even properly get the constant benefit either.

I believe this to be positive news, mostly because the bonus balance patch seemed to be a functionality change more than a fix (because the new aura mechanic is.. clunky at best), setting the stage for a rework. This post atleast to me confirms that they are looking into options, so I'm looking forward to the next balance pass and the future of auras.

Sure, it's moderately positive that they are taking a look but I wouldn't expect too much out of it.

Dubious advantages like gaining aegis when you’re struck can actually encourage you to get hit. This feels odd, and is even worse when getting hit isn’t guaranteed to give you that benefit.

I don't think it's referring to on-being-hit effects being dubious. I think it's more about gaining aegis part of the sentence that's the key area here. It's quite specifically of dubious benefit to gain aegis when you are hit because that's exactly what aegis is supposed to prevent. This does apply to a few other things but it shouldn't be understood as on-hit effects generally being dubious.

[Zunki.3916]

Actually this makes me kinda nervous.I know I should expect nothing at all, but making fire aura pulse burn stacks, making lightning aura pulse some power dmg and making frost aura pulse some slow would actually give the support tempest the much needed offensive support and put it one step up in viability. I don't want to decrown druids, but being one step closer would be very welcomed. They could do so much cool stuff but most likely not much will happen, eh...?

[rng.1024]

@Yannir.4132 said:

@"rng.1024" said:In light of the incoming sigil/rune revamp, I wanted to emphasize something that was said (that I believe the entire systems team agree on) about on hit-effects:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/november-13-salvage-runes-and-sigils/

Sound familiar? This also applies to ele auras. With the icd on them, you can't even properly get the constant benefit either.

I believe this to be positive news, mostly because the bonus balance patch seemed to be a functionality change more than a fix (because the new aura mechanic is.. clunky at best), setting the stage for a rework. This post atleast to me confirms that they are looking into options, so I'm looking forward to the next balance pass and the future of auras.

Sure, it's moderately positive that they are taking a look but I wouldn't expect

too

much out of it.

Dubious advantages like gaining aegis when you’re struck can actually encourage you to get hit. This feels odd, and is even worse when getting hit isn’t guaranteed to give you that benefit.

I don't think it's referring to on-being-hit effects being dubious. I think it's more about

gaining aegis

part of the sentence that's the key area here. It's quite specifically of dubious benefit to gain aegis when you are hit because that's exactly what aegis is supposed to prevent. This does apply to a few other things but it shouldn't be understood as on-hit effects generally being dubious.

I know, if it weren't for that the "on hit" bonus was removed from all showcased runes I would agree ;)

[rng.1024]

@Zunki.3916 said:Actually this makes me kinda nervous.I know I should expect nothing at all, but making fire aura pulse burn stacks, making lightning aura pulse some power dmg and making frost aura pulse some slow would actually give the support tempest the much needed offensive support and put it one step up in viability. I don't want to decrown druids, but being one step closer would be very welcomed. They could do so much cool stuff but most likely not much will happen, eh...?

If anything happens - and that's a big if - we won't see any big passes until mid PvP season (since it's a thing now). Unfortunately this coincides with the wintersday festival which also require resources, so I guess our biggest chance will be somewhere in january/february for a major balance pass :o

[Zunki.3916]

@rng.1024 said:

@Zunki.3916 said:Actually this makes me kinda nervous.I know I should expect nothing at all, but making fire aura pulse burn stacks, making lightning aura pulse some power dmg and making frost aura pulse some slow would actually give the support tempest the much needed offensive support and put it one step up in viability. I don't want to decrown druids, but being one step closer would be very welcomed. They could do so much cool stuff but most likely not much will happen, eh...?

If anything happens - and that's a big if - we won't see any big passes until mid PvP season (since it's a thing now). Unfortunately this coincides with the wintersday festival which also require resources, so I guess our biggest chance will be somewhere in january/february for a major balance pass :o

Hmmm, can't today be a good day for such a change, alongside with the rest? Or is it common knowledge that there are not much further changes than upgrades and consumeables? I expected the major balance patch today, including other stuff, but maybe I'm a bit too greedy :)

[Yannir.4132]

@rng.1024 said:I know, if it weren't for that the "on hit" bonus was removed from all showcased runes I would agree ;)

That's more because of the @rng.1024 than dubious effects. :tongue:That's been a trend ever since they did the Sigil overhaul for PvP, they tend to remove RNG elements from the game mechanics so that the player has better control over things. Auras are not RNG, you know exactly what they do, and when they do it.

PS. In the end I do agree auras need buffs so I won't be arguing this point further. Just wanted to point out that you might be mis-interpreting dev comments a bit too positively. Just don't get your hopes up too much.

[MyPuppy.8970]

Auras aren't rng, but their core effect kinda is. I don't expect much change though.

[NaturallyNick.4058]

Weaver is still complete garbage. Anyone expecting a fix needs to pull their heads out of their ass. Anet's "Balance" Team's Ele player mains support Tempest (hence the poorly implemented aura buffs). Probably can't even string together an actual combo with sword Weaver. Expecting them to competently fix Weaver is insanity.

[Junkpile.7439]

So did they boost core scepter/dagger ele? Give us barriers, maybe some blocks, more hp and stuff?