New Marked! debuff

[FaboBabo.3581]

As a Mesmer - I dont care i got 3 seconds stealth every 24 seconds only

[Shroud.2307]

Shouldn't apply Marked if you're not Stealthed. That's how I feel about it. Marked is problematic for roamers and small scale groups because it alerts everyone to their position and magnetizes a cloud to them usually within seconds. You already have to avoid objectives, or at least move by them quickly if you're alone.

Better idea would be this:Throw a timed grenade that removes Stealth if the player does not exit Stealth within 2 seconds. All Stealthed players hit by the grenade will be Marked. This effect will be removed if they exit Stealth before they are Revealed. If the grenade Reveals them, they will be Marked and Revealed for 30 seconds.

This means the window to exit Stealth before you are punished is very small, but there's enough time to prevent yourself from being Revealed and Marked for a long duration. If you fail to Reveal yourself, you get punished heavily. This should only effect Stealthed targets and not just who ever the grenade is thrown at.

[Shadowcat.2680]

Every skill/trait/rune/combo in the game that grants stealth grants at least 3 seconds of it, so the reveal happening after 2 seconds of stealth makes little sense. Any use of stealth while marked will result in the user getting revealed by either the new mechanic or by attacking to end the stealth early.

[Klypto.1703]

@MUDse.7623 said:only thing i am confused with is that the description says that the reveal will occur when 'stealthing for long durations' and then it happens after 2 seconds, yet most stealth applications in this game are 3-4seconds. i would like them to set that timer to 4 seconds to only affect longer stealth stacking.

but overall it wont be too much of an issue for deadeyes, reveals like everything else will only kill you if you dont know or plan for it to be applied. but the very existance of those traps and tricks will create an illusion of safety that can be abused.

i am more worried about the actual marking of that trap as a means for autoscouting, it can have a severe impact on whats left of havoc groups. you can bypass marks that you know will happen, but a trap?

@Klypto.1703 said:Yes my fellow deadeyes will be dropping these at every exit from a spawn so that it will really show what a bad idea this is.

Enjoy :)if you have an issue with this change affecting your performance as a deadeye, that is not the right way to go about it. better is to not play deadeye then. when you keep playing it, anet will see it as you dont mind / enjoy those changes.

I don't fold when it gets hot in the kitchen. I just overcome and adapt and use their own weapons against them and see how they like the taste of their own medicine.

[Arheundel.6451]

So many tears...are you all unable to outskill opponents without relying on stealth and run tactics?

[DemonSeed.3528]

@Arheundel.6451 said:So many tears...are you all unable to outskill opponents without relying on stealth and run tactics?

I'm sure there will be players doing that, and there will still be complaints.

[bq pd.2148]

@Klypto.1703 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:only thing i am confused with is that the description says that the reveal will occur when 'stealthing for long durations' and then it happens after 2 seconds, yet most stealth applications in this game are 3-4seconds. i would like them to set that timer to 4 seconds to only affect longer stealth stacking.

but overall it wont be too much of an issue for deadeyes, reveals like everything else will only kill you if you dont know or plan for it to be applied. but the very existance of those traps and tricks will create an illusion of safety that can be abused.

i am more worried about the actual marking of that trap as a means for autoscouting, it can have a severe impact on whats left of havoc groups. you can bypass marks that you know will happen, but a trap?

@Klypto.1703 said:Yes my fellow deadeyes will be dropping these at every exit from a spawn so that it will really show what a bad idea this is.

Enjoy :)if you have an issue with this change affecting your performance as a deadeye, that is not the right way to go about it. better is to not play deadeye then. when you keep playing it, anet will see it as you dont mind / enjoy those changes.

I don't fold when it gets hot in the kitchen. I just overcome and adapt and use their own weapons against them and see how they like the taste of their own medicine.

then your asking for it to become hotter :3.

@Arheundel.6451 said:So many tears...are you all unable to outskill opponents without relying on stealth and run tactics?

sure if my build has tools for that. but if i build to use stealth and run tactics and then i cant use them, i just question wether i should still build for them when there is soo much better cheese..

also i think as an opponent to a deadeye you wont really see much of a difference with todays patch. its just that playing the deadeye yourself you now need to look a little more on the envoirement. the deadeye still picks the fight, so he still will win. the opportunities to do so will just be a little less.

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:I don't have massive issues with this and I kinda like how it limits everything that abuses stealth and not just deadeye, although I feel like 3s would be a better timer for the marked effect revealing you on sentries and towers. That way short duration stealth skills across all classes would be unaffected in combat but it would still mean stealth isn't stackable in and around objectives, which was clearly the point.

the question that arises tho is: is it still worth investing into stealth with such envoiremental disadvantages everywhere? (altho marked from keep capture and watchtowers can be removed)and is there still a reason to play thief without that stealth when you can play soulbeast, holo , mirage or with the new speed rune maybe even reaper (rune makes swifrness grant 99% speed boost instead of 33%) ?i think at this point its better to wait a few weeks and see wich of the many 'interesting' stuff they implemented will remain.

Honestly it probably affects me little compared to other thieves, apart from a brief stint playing the valk M.backstab build I generally play minimal stealth sword builds. Simply not being in range until you want to be is and always has been a better defense than stealth for roaming imo. I guess I prefer to pistol whip someone's teeth out as opposed to backstabbing them and with the new scholar runes and absorption sigil that playstyle just got a significant buff.

I mostly just question why they made the timer 2s when the duration of stealth for almost anything that isn't trapper runes is 3s or more. Personally I've come to the opinion that if they wanted to actually balance stealth and they'd have just straight up gotten rid of smoke fields and made black powder on D/P apply 4s stealth for 6 ini to compensate, so the only skills that apply more stealth than that (mass invis, sneak gyro and shadow refuge) are clearly team oriented and either have clear counterplay or high cooldowns or both. A solution like this which punishes using stealth skills at all in the area just feels weirdly punishing to solo roamers in general tbh.

[Jaruselka.5943]

Good. Stealth in this game is B.S. and needed more hard counters.

[KryTiKaL.3125]

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Klypto.1703 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:only thing i am confused with is that the description says that the reveal will occur when 'stealthing for long durations' and then it happens after 2 seconds, yet most stealth applications in this game are 3-4seconds. i would like them to set that timer to 4 seconds to only affect longer stealth stacking.

but overall it wont be too much of an issue for deadeyes, reveals like everything else will only kill you if you dont know or plan for it to be applied. but the very existance of those traps and tricks will create an illusion of safety that can be abused.

i am more worried about the actual marking of that trap as a means for autoscouting, it can have a severe impact on whats left of havoc groups. you can bypass marks that you know will happen, but a trap?

@Klypto.1703 said:Yes my fellow deadeyes will be dropping these at every exit from a spawn so that it will really show what a bad idea this is.

Enjoy :)if you have an issue with this change affecting your performance as a deadeye, that is not the right way to go about it. better is to not play deadeye then. when you keep playing it, anet will see it as you dont mind / enjoy those changes.

I don't fold when it gets hot in the kitchen. I just overcome and adapt and use their own weapons against them and see how they like the taste of their own medicine.

then your asking for it to become hotter :3.

@"Arheundel.6451" said:So many tears...are you all unable to outskill opponents without relying on stealth and run tactics?

sure if my build has tools for that. but if i build to use stealth and run tactics and then i cant use them, i just question wether i should still build for them when there is soo much better cheese..

also i think as an opponent to a deadeye you wont really see much of a difference with todays patch. its just that playing the deadeye yourself you now need to look a little more on the envoirement. the deadeye still picks the fight, so he still will win. the opportunities to do so will just be a little less.

The prime issue with DE outside of the obvious issues in roaming with them (the one shotting not even with rifle but with Malicious backstab which this still doesn't fix) is that they can perma stealth inside of a keep if their team fails to defend from a flip or if their group gets wiped off an objective like a camp or tower. So the Marked! debuff keeps them from being permastealthed inside the keep to then res a mesmer that can then port in their zerg again or to res their team so they can just continue to harrass an objective for much longer than should be warranted. That isn't a "clever" tactic when the method that was used before this change was something the damn thing could cleanse off of themselves. People have tried putting the stealth disrupter traps on bodies before and I have literally seen a DE proc it and just cleanse the effect to then scamper off in their permastealthed state. This also forces DEs to actually maybe choose to maneuver better around sentries and towers rather than just being able to permastealth right by them so that roamers have even less warning time to go and defend a camp which already has a silly amount of a delay before they appear contested.

[bq pd.2148]

@KryTiKaL.3125 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Klypto.1703 said:

@MUDse.7623 said:only thing i am confused with is that the description says that the reveal will occur when 'stealthing for long durations' and then it happens after 2 seconds, yet most stealth applications in this game are 3-4seconds. i would like them to set that timer to 4 seconds to only affect longer stealth stacking.

but overall it wont be too much of an issue for deadeyes, reveals like everything else will only kill you if you dont know or plan for it to be applied. but the very existance of those traps and tricks will create an illusion of safety that can be abused.

i am more worried about the actual marking of that trap as a means for autoscouting, it can have a severe impact on whats left of havoc groups. you can bypass marks that you know will happen, but a trap?

@Klypto.1703 said:Yes my fellow deadeyes will be dropping these at every exit from a spawn so that it will really show what a bad idea this is.

Enjoy :)if you have an issue with this change affecting your performance as a deadeye, that is not the right way to go about it. better is to not play deadeye then. when you keep playing it, anet will see it as you dont mind / enjoy those changes.

I don't fold when it gets hot in the kitchen. I just overcome and adapt and use their own weapons against them and see how they like the taste of their own medicine.

then your asking for it to become hotter :3.

@"Arheundel.6451" said:So many tears...are you all unable to outskill opponents without relying on stealth and run tactics?

sure if my build has tools for that. but if i build to use stealth and run tactics and then i cant use them, i just question wether i should still build for them when there is soo much better cheese..

also i think as an opponent to a deadeye you wont really see much of a difference with todays patch. its just that playing the deadeye yourself you now need to look a little more on the envoirement. the deadeye still picks the fight, so he still will win. the opportunities to do so will just be a little less.

The prime issue with DE outside of the obvious issues in roaming with them (the one shotting not even with rifle but with Malicious backstab which this still doesn't fix) is that they can perma stealth inside of a keep if their team fails to defend from a flip or if their group gets wiped off an objective like a camp or tower. So the Marked! debuff keeps them from being permastealthed inside the keep to then res a mesmer that can then port in their zerg again or to res their team so they can just continue to harrass an objective for much longer than should be warranted. That isn't a "clever" tactic when the method that was used before this change was something the kitten thing could

cleanse

off of themselves. People have tried putting the stealth disrupter traps on bodies before and I have literally seen a DE proc it and just cleanse the effect to then scamper off in their permastealthed state. This also forces DEs to actually maybe choose to maneuver better around sentries and towers rather than just being able to permastealth right by them so that roamers have even

less

warning time to go and defend a camp which already has a silly amount of a delay before they appear contested.

ressing the mesmer could have been adressed without interferring in combat. there were several issues why mesmers were able to get rezzed:

1. the timer is 5 minutes long - for what actually?
2. the timer resets everytime someone touches the body
3. people used all their damage ON the body instead of covering a large area to avoid the deadeye coming close to the body while OOC. because you need to be OOC to rez a full downed player. you didnt need reveal at all to avoid the ressing.one could simply lower the timer and if it is just in enemy territory for full downed to 1 minute and then make it not refresh when people res a tick.change now means: leave the mesmer dead and just flip it solo.

one did get marked in permastealth too before, so we already had to maneuver around towers/sentries like everyone else.

[Klypto.1703]

Yeah just like watchtower though no counter to it and super super long duration they need to do something about the duration mostly its like telling a guardian okay no boons or heals for 30 minutes.

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

@Klypto.1703 said:Yeah just like watchtower though no counter to it and super super long duration they need to do something about the duration mostly its like telling a guardian okay no boons or heals for 30 minutes.

But you can still run off and go and do something else

[Rayth.2816]

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

@"Klypto.1703" said:Yeah just like watchtower though no counter to it and super super long duration they need to do something about the duration mostly its like telling a guardian okay no boons or heals for 30 minutes.

But you can still run off and go and do something else

Humhum.... the guatrdian could "run off and go and do something else", too.

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

@Rayth.2816 said:

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

@"Klypto.1703" said:Yeah just like watchtower though no counter to it and super super long duration they need to do something about the duration mostly its like telling a guardian okay no boons or heals for 30 minutes.

But you can still run off and go and do something else

Humhum.... the guatrdian could "run off and go and do something else", too.

Compared to a stealth class? No, they "can't" run off

[Rayth.2816]

The rifle sniper is, if solo, a rather weak class.

The only one based on timing and patience, on placement and the waiting for opportunity.

What interest to play sniper, as with the daredevil I can just flood a unique skill like an idiot, and have infinite dodges, incredible damage (in zone ofc), a zone combo, a speed boost bonus, ...?

why a warrior can dodge, block, reflect, get immunity to my attack 90% of the time, without any "tool" to prevent it ?

why mesmer can do 5v1, be really sturdy, make unbelievable zone damage, make an infinity of clones, dodges, evades, reflects, Teleport, etc. etc.

why a ranger can kill me almost instantly at 1k8 range, simply by using 2 keys if I do not have the brakstun reflex in less than 300 ms?

Why others thiefs can land me 18k with only one hit, coming directly out of the stealth, when i have to start fight, up my malice with skills, to finally be able to shoot a very visible lazer ray with a particular sound to be sure to give the opponent the time to react?

There is little rifle snipers in WvW. Why ? because it's pretty bad overall, quite simply.

Prevent staying in a castle after capture, yeah why not.But the technique used in this patch simply makes this class unplayable as soon as it approaches an enemy structure.

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

De is either too good (not op) because of shadow arts and the dodge on stealth or it's pretty bad with no stealth, that's poor design. De is not the only 1 to use patience game play and timing btw, most thief builds do but it was far easier the pull of kills on a de because of the gimmicks it can use

[Cristalyan.5728]

@"Strider Pj.2193" said:World vs. World

General

• Marked: This effect has been updated and will now reveal enemies for 5 seconds if they remain in stealth for 2 seconds or more. This effect is referred to as Detected!
• New Trick Added—Target Painter: Throw a trick that allows the player to mark up to 50 enemies in a targeted radius of 360 for 30 seconds. This effect cannot be avoided, and it costs 10 supply to deploy.
• Stealth Disruptor Trap: This trap has been renamed Target Painter Trap and will now mark up to 50 enemies in a 1,200 radius for 30 seconds. This effect cannot be avoided, and its cost is still 10 supply.Participation will no longer decay outside of WvW. As a result, rewards based on participation (pips and reward tracks) will be delayed until the next full tick when entering WvW from outside other WvW maps.

All of the WVW updates. New truck: throwable.....

Marked - why? The problem was not the stealth used to capture an objective, but the abuse of stealth in fights against other players, giving the stealth part the right to dictate the course of the battle (when to start it, when to disengage etc). I never saw any complain on this Forum regarding the fact that some havoc groups uses stealth to suddenly capture an objective (a T3 keep for example? ). Some complains against perma stealth thieves inside the objectives. So, in my opinion this change is way more than what we needed - a reveal for stealth classes inside an objective (or after capture for a certain amount of time (2-3 minutes) is much more desirable.

Target Painter - LOOOOL !!! It seems that our complains regarding the stealth of ONE thief reached ANet ears in a slightly changed form: NOBODY complained he is not able to see a zerg of 50 enemy and he needs something to mark and reveal them. NOBODY! Why this change? What is the purpose? Who is not able to see a group of 50 enemy without this Painter surely is not able to see them even after using it. Most probably this will be used for scouting purposes by placing it everywhere on the map - congratulations ANet! You give us a tool we know from the very beginning its only use will be the abuse.

Target Painter Trap - LOL ! again =). This is exactly what the Target Painter is. With a radius of 1200. Again on 50 enemy.

So - we complained again and again about the abuse of stealth (from mesmers / thieves etc.) The result: the devs. invented the Stealth Disruptor Trap. After a while, the elite specialization allowed the thieves to negate the action of this Trap, turning it in something useless.

I don't know the name of our Forum colleague who had a kind of "prophecy": He said that he expects something to counter the elite counter-counter to reveal. We have it now. But after this he said the thief will receive a Mega counter to the Super counter to counter reveal. And so on ....

I still have a question: If you fight a 1 vs 1 against a thief how is the "Target painting trap" supposed to work? How long is its deploying time? If it works like the Stealth Disruptor trap you will be dead before placing it. What if you don't have 10 resources? In a 1 vs 1 fight I don't need to have the potential to reveal 50! I only want a sure way to reveal 1. Before I'm dead.This is the way ANet "solved" the stealth abuse problem - creating some useless devices instead of having the courage to solve the problem. In the last years two traits of the mesmer were deleted from the game and many other changed. How hard was to remove the action of "remove reveal" from that elite skill? And replace it with something else?

[Strider Pj.2193]

@Cristalyan.5728 said:

@"Strider Pj.2193" said:World vs. World

General

• Marked: This effect has been updated and will now reveal enemies for 5 seconds if they remain in stealth for 2 seconds or more. This effect is referred to as Detected!
• New Trick Added—Target Painter: Throw a trick that allows the player to mark up to 50 enemies in a targeted radius of 360 for 30 seconds. This effect cannot be avoided, and it costs 10 supply to deploy.
• Stealth Disruptor Trap: This trap has been renamed Target Painter Trap and will now mark up to 50 enemies in a 1,200 radius for 30 seconds. This effect cannot be avoided, and its cost is still 10 supply.Participation will no longer decay outside of WvW. As a result, rewards based on participation (pips and reward tracks) will be delayed until the next full tick when entering WvW from outside other WvW maps.

All of the WVW updates. New truck: throwable.....

Marked

- why? The problem was not the stealth used to capture an objective, but the abuse of stealth in fights against other players, giving the stealth part the right to dictate the course of the battle (when to start it, when to disengage etc). I never saw any complain on this Forum regarding the fact that some havoc groups uses stealth to suddenly capture an objective (a T3 keep for example? ). Some complains against perma stealth thieves

inside

the objectives. So, in my opinion this change is way more than what we needed - a reveal for stealth classes inside an objective (or after capture for a certain amount of time (2-3 minutes) is much more desirable.

Target Painter

- LOOOOL !!! It seems that our complains regarding the stealth of ONE thief reached ANet ears in a slightly changed form:

NOBODY

complained he is not able to see a zerg of 50 enemy and he needs something to mark and reveal them.

NOBODY

! Why this change? What is the purpose? Who is not able to see a group of 50 enemy without this Painter surely is not able to see them even after using it. Most probably this will be used for scouting purposes by placing it everywhere on the map - congratulations ANet! You give us a tool we know from the very beginning its only use will be the abuse.

Target Painter Trap

- LOL ! again =). This is exactly what the

Target Painter

is. With a radius of 1200. Again on 50 enemy.

So - we complained again and again about the abuse of stealth (from mesmers / thieves etc.) The result: the devs. invented the

Stealth Disruptor Trap

. After a while, the elite specialization allowed the thieves to negate the action of this Trap, turning it in something useless.

I don't know the name of our Forum colleague who had a kind of "prophecy": He said that he expects something to counter the elite counter-counter to reveal. We have it now. But after this he said the thief will receive a Mega counter to the Super counter to counter reveal. And so on ....

I still have a question: If you fight a 1 vs 1 against a thief how is the "Target painting trap" supposed to work? How long is its deploying time? If it works like the Stealth Disruptor trap you will be dead before placing it. What if you don't have 10 resources? In a 1 vs 1 fight I don't need to have

the potential

to reveal 50! I only want a

sure way

to reveal 1. Before I'm dead.This is the way ANet "solved" the stealth abuse problem - creating some useless devices instead of having the courage to solve the problem. In the last years two traits of the mesmer were

deleted

from the game and many other changed. How hard was to remove the action of "remove reveal" from that elite skill? And replace it with something else?

Target Painter: Throw a trick that allows the player to mark up to 50 enemies in a targeted radius of 360 for 30 seconds. This effect cannot be avoided, and it costs 10 supply to deploy.

I think throwing eliminates the placing multiple spots. I have not tested it, but this appears to be more of a ‘siege disabler’ Type trick.

[Straegen.2938]

@XECOR.2814 said:They put counter to stealth in wvw and thieves are mad. What a surprise.

The general complaint is that it is not just a counter. Going near sentries or radar effectively neuters the damage of several builds in addition to removing a huge chunk of their survival. Most are for more reveal counter play or a straight up adjustment to stealth but this is an oddball design decision especially since stealthers are the most likely solo roamers flipping sentries and such.

[Cristalyan.5728]

@"Strider Pj.2193" said:

Target Painter: Throw a trick that allows the player to mark up to 50 enemies in a targeted radius of 360 for 30 seconds. This effect cannot be avoided, and it costs 10 supply to deploy.

I think throwing eliminates the placing multiple spots. I have not tested it, but this appears to be more of a ‘siege disabler’ Type trick.

If so, this "solution" is even more laughable. You should be in front of one 50 man zerg and place it as a siege disabler (being careful to catch all the zerg in the radius). Is this a joke? If someone tries this he is dead in seconds. And again - what is the purpose of the action? Do you need to mark a zerg of 50 players who are in front of you? You cannot already see them?

[Strider Pj.2193]

@Cristalyan.5728 said:

@"Strider Pj.2193" said:

Target Painter:

Throw

a trick that allows the player to mark up to 50 enemies in a targeted radius of 360 for 30 seconds. This effect cannot be avoided, and it costs 10 supply to deploy.

I think throwing eliminates the placing multiple spots. I have not tested it, but this appears to be more of a ‘siege disabler’ Type trick.

If so, this "solution" is even more laughable. You should be in front of one 50 man zerg and place it as a siege disabler (being careful to catch all the zerg in the radius). Is this a joke? If someone tries this he is dead in seconds. And again - what is the purpose of the action? Do you need to mark a zerg of 50 players who are in front of you? You cannot already see them?

I think the original intent was the deadeye in a keep, but yeah..

[Shadowcat.2680]

@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

I mostly just question why they made the timer 2s when the duration of stealth for almost anything that isn't trapper runes is 3s or more.Trapper runes grant 3s of stealth per trap as of this most recent patch. I don't think anything grants only 2s anymore.@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@Cristalyan.5728 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:World vs. World

General

• Marked: This effect has been updated and will now reveal enemies for 5 seconds if they remain in stealth for 2 seconds or more. This effect is referred to as Detected!
• New Trick Added—Target Painter: Throw a trick that allows the player to mark up to 50 enemies in a targeted radius of 360 for 30 seconds. This effect cannot be avoided, and it costs 10 supply to deploy.
• Stealth Disruptor Trap: This trap has been renamed Target Painter Trap and will now mark up to 50 enemies in a 1,200 radius for 30 seconds. This effect cannot be avoided, and its cost is still 10 supply.Participation will no longer decay outside of WvW. As a result, rewards based on participation (pips and reward tracks) will be delayed until the next full tick when entering WvW from outside other WvW maps.

All of the WVW updates. New truck: throwable.....

Marked

- why? The problem was not the stealth used to capture an objective, but the abuse of stealth in fights against other players, giving the stealth part the right to dictate the course of the battle (when to start it, when to disengage etc). I never saw any complain on this Forum regarding the fact that some havoc groups uses stealth to suddenly capture an objective (a T3 keep for example? ). Some complains against perma stealth thieves

inside

the objectives. So, in my opinion this change is way more than what we needed - a reveal for stealth classes inside an objective (or after capture for a certain amount of time (2-3 minutes) is much more desirable.

Target Painter

- LOOOOL !!! It seems that our complains regarding the stealth of ONE thief reached ANet ears in a slightly changed form:

NOBODY

complained he is not able to see a zerg of 50 enemy and he needs something to mark and reveal them.

NOBODY

! Why this change? What is the purpose? Who is not able to see a group of 50 enemy without this Painter surely is not able to see them even after using it. Most probably this will be used for scouting purposes by placing it everywhere on the map - congratulations ANet! You give us a tool we know from the very beginning its only use will be the abuse.

Target Painter Trap

- LOL ! again =). This is exactly what the

Target Painter

is. With a radius of 1200. Again on 50 enemy.

So - we complained again and again about the abuse of stealth (from mesmers / thieves etc.) The result: the devs. invented the

Stealth Disruptor Trap

. After a while, the elite specialization allowed the thieves to negate the action of this Trap, turning it in something useless.

I don't know the name of our Forum colleague who had a kind of "prophecy": He said that he expects something to counter the elite counter-counter to reveal. We have it now. But after this he said the thief will receive a Mega counter to the Super counter to counter reveal. And so on ....

I still have a question: If you fight a 1 vs 1 against a thief how is the "Target painting trap" supposed to work? How long is its deploying time? If it works like the Stealth Disruptor trap you will be dead before placing it. What if you don't have 10 resources? In a 1 vs 1 fight I don't need to have

the potential

to reveal 50! I only want a

sure way

to reveal 1. Before I'm dead.This is the way ANet "solved" the stealth abuse problem - creating some useless devices instead of having the courage to solve the problem. In the last years two traits of the mesmer were

deleted

from the game and many other changed. How hard was to remove the action of "remove reveal" from that elite skill? And replace it with something else?

Target Painter:

Throw

a trick that allows the player to mark up to 50 enemies in a targeted radius of 360 for 30 seconds. This effect cannot be avoided, and it costs 10 supply to deploy.

I think throwing eliminates the placing multiple spots. I have not tested it, but this appears to be more of a ‘siege disabler’ Type trick.The new trap isn't thrown. The patch notes are wrong about it. It's ground targeted just like a supply trap or like the stealth trap it replaced. It also costs 5 supply, not 10.

[bq pd.2148]

@Shadowcat.2680 said:

@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

I mostly just question why they made the timer 2s when the duration of stealth for almost anything that isn't trapper runes is 3s or more.Trapper runes grant 3s of stealth per trap as of this most recent patch. I don't think anything grants only 2s anymore.@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@Cristalyan.5728 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:World vs. World

General

• Marked: This effect has been updated and will now reveal enemies for 5 seconds if they remain in stealth for 2 seconds or more. This effect is referred to as Detected!
• New Trick Added—Target Painter: Throw a trick that allows the player to mark up to 50 enemies in a targeted radius of 360 for 30 seconds. This effect cannot be avoided, and it costs 10 supply to deploy.
• Stealth Disruptor Trap: This trap has been renamed Target Painter Trap and will now mark up to 50 enemies in a 1,200 radius for 30 seconds. This effect cannot be avoided, and its cost is still 10 supply.Participation will no longer decay outside of WvW. As a result, rewards based on participation (pips and reward tracks) will be delayed until the next full tick when entering WvW from outside other WvW maps.

All of the WVW updates. New truck: throwable.....

Marked

- why? The problem was not the stealth used to capture an objective, but the abuse of stealth in fights against other players, giving the stealth part the right to dictate the course of the battle (when to start it, when to disengage etc). I never saw any complain on this Forum regarding the fact that some havoc groups uses stealth to suddenly capture an objective (a T3 keep for example? ). Some complains against perma stealth thieves

inside

the objectives. So, in my opinion this change is way more than what we needed - a reveal for stealth classes inside an objective (or after capture for a certain amount of time (2-3 minutes) is much more desirable.

Target Painter

- LOOOOL !!! It seems that our complains regarding the stealth of ONE thief reached ANet ears in a slightly changed form:

NOBODY

complained he is not able to see a zerg of 50 enemy and he needs something to mark and reveal them.

NOBODY

! Why this change? What is the purpose? Who is not able to see a group of 50 enemy without this Painter surely is not able to see them even after using it. Most probably this will be used for scouting purposes by placing it everywhere on the map - congratulations ANet! You give us a tool we know from the very beginning its only use will be the abuse.

Target Painter Trap

- LOL ! again =). This is exactly what the

Target Painter

is. With a radius of 1200. Again on 50 enemy.

So - we complained again and again about the abuse of stealth (from mesmers / thieves etc.) The result: the devs. invented the

Stealth Disruptor Trap

. After a while, the elite specialization allowed the thieves to negate the action of this Trap, turning it in something useless.

I don't know the name of our Forum colleague who had a kind of "prophecy": He said that he expects something to counter the elite counter-counter to reveal. We have it now. But after this he said the thief will receive a Mega counter to the Super counter to counter reveal. And so on ....

I still have a question: If you fight a 1 vs 1 against a thief how is the "Target painting trap" supposed to work? How long is its deploying time? If it works like the Stealth Disruptor trap you will be dead before placing it. What if you don't have 10 resources? In a 1 vs 1 fight I don't need to have

the potential

to reveal 50! I only want a

sure way

to reveal 1. Before I'm dead.This is the way ANet "solved" the stealth abuse problem - creating some useless devices instead of having the courage to solve the problem. In the last years two traits of the mesmer were

deleted

from the game and many other changed. How hard was to remove the action of "remove reveal" from that elite skill? And replace it with something else?

Target Painter:

Throw

a trick that allows the player to mark up to 50 enemies in a targeted radius of 360 for 30 seconds. This effect cannot be avoided, and it costs 10 supply to deploy.

I think throwing eliminates the placing multiple spots. I have not tested it, but this appears to be more of a ‘siege disabler’ Type trick.The new trap isn't thrown. The patch notes are wrong about it. It's ground targeted just like a supply trap or like the stealth trap it replaced. It also costs 5 supply, not 10.

there is a trap AND a trick. one is placed with 1200 radius and 5 supply cost, one is thrown with 360 radius and 10 supply cost.i havent tried it yet but i guess the 'cannot be avoided' means that you cannot dodge it, the same like you cannot dodge sic em or on my mark, wich means you would need to use a fast movement skill to get out of that radius while its thrown. got to also test if it can be destroyed as it is a projectile

[Shadowcat.2680]

@MUDse.7623 said:

@Shadowcat.2680 said:

@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

I mostly just question why they made the timer 2s when the duration of stealth for almost anything that isn't trapper runes is 3s or more.Trapper runes grant 3s of stealth per trap as of this most recent patch. I don't think anything grants only 2s anymore.@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@Cristalyan.5728 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:World vs. World

General

• Marked: This effect has been updated and will now reveal enemies for 5 seconds if they remain in stealth for 2 seconds or more. This effect is referred to as Detected!
• New Trick Added—Target Painter: Throw a trick that allows the player to mark up to 50 enemies in a targeted radius of 360 for 30 seconds. This effect cannot be avoided, and it costs 10 supply to deploy.
• Stealth Disruptor Trap: This trap has been renamed Target Painter Trap and will now mark up to 50 enemies in a 1,200 radius for 30 seconds. This effect cannot be avoided, and its cost is still 10 supply.Participation will no longer decay outside of WvW. As a result, rewards based on participation (pips and reward tracks) will be delayed until the next full tick when entering WvW from outside other WvW maps.

All of the WVW updates. New truck: throwable.....

Marked

- why? The problem was not the stealth used to capture an objective, but the abuse of stealth in fights against other players, giving the stealth part the right to dictate the course of the battle (when to start it, when to disengage etc). I never saw any complain on this Forum regarding the fact that some havoc groups uses stealth to suddenly capture an objective (a T3 keep for example? ). Some complains against perma stealth thieves

inside

the objectives. So, in my opinion this change is way more than what we needed - a reveal for stealth classes inside an objective (or after capture for a certain amount of time (2-3 minutes) is much more desirable.

Target Painter

- LOOOOL !!! It seems that our complains regarding the stealth of ONE thief reached ANet ears in a slightly changed form:

NOBODY

complained he is not able to see a zerg of 50 enemy and he needs something to mark and reveal them.

NOBODY

! Why this change? What is the purpose? Who is not able to see a group of 50 enemy without this Painter surely is not able to see them even after using it. Most probably this will be used for scouting purposes by placing it everywhere on the map - congratulations ANet! You give us a tool we know from the very beginning its only use will be the abuse.

Target Painter Trap

- LOL ! again =). This is exactly what the

Target Painter

is. With a radius of 1200. Again on 50 enemy.

So - we complained again and again about the abuse of stealth (from mesmers / thieves etc.) The result: the devs. invented the

Stealth Disruptor Trap

. After a while, the elite specialization allowed the thieves to negate the action of this Trap, turning it in something useless.

I don't know the name of our Forum colleague who had a kind of "prophecy": He said that he expects something to counter the elite counter-counter to reveal. We have it now. But after this he said the thief will receive a Mega counter to the Super counter to counter reveal. And so on ....

I still have a question: If you fight a 1 vs 1 against a thief how is the "Target painting trap" supposed to work? How long is its deploying time? If it works like the Stealth Disruptor trap you will be dead before placing it. What if you don't have 10 resources? In a 1 vs 1 fight I don't need to have

the potential

to reveal 50! I only want a

sure way

to reveal 1. Before I'm dead.This is the way ANet "solved" the stealth abuse problem - creating some useless devices instead of having the courage to solve the problem. In the last years two traits of the mesmer were

deleted

from the game and many other changed. How hard was to remove the action of "remove reveal" from that elite skill? And replace it with something else?

Target Painter:

Throw

a trick that allows the player to mark up to 50 enemies in a targeted radius of 360 for 30 seconds. This effect cannot be avoided, and it costs 10 supply to deploy.

I think throwing eliminates the placing multiple spots. I have not tested it, but this appears to be more of a ‘siege disabler’ Type trick.The new trap isn't thrown. The patch notes are wrong about it. It's ground targeted just like a supply trap or like the stealth trap it replaced. It also costs 5 supply, not 10.

there is a trap AND a trick. one is placed with 1200 radius and 5 supply cost, one is thrown with 360 radius and 10 supply cost.i havent tried it yet but i guess the 'cannot be avoided' means that you cannot dodge it, the same like you cannot dodge sic em or on my mark, wich means you would need to use a fast movement skill to get out of that radius while its thrown. got to also test if it can be destroyed as it is a projectile

You're right: I overlooked the thrown version.

I tested it with a guidie on another server. The thrown target painter will even hit and mark a thief as it's doing dagger storm. The effect (the mark) didn't get reflected or evaded.