Rune of Tormenting

[Nightmare.1234]

@RabbitUp.8294 said:@Nightmare.1234 said:

all it needs is a 1 second icd

That would be too useless then, unless the heal amount was massively buffed. Otherwise all the bonus would do is heal you for 170 when using a torment skill, up to a maximum of 170/sec, but usually much lower than that in practice.

I would rather they reworked it to heal you every second based on the number of torment stacks you have on enemies, instead of healing when applying it.

was more of a joke suggestion, its how they fix most of their traits, sigils and runes like that. but it would work ok like that if the heal was made 2-3 times stronger

[kyllar.6907]

so how long before some of these new changes get nerfed? I don't want to spend a bunch of gold for only a day or two =)

[babazhook.6805]

The rune seems to proc on every condition and not just torment. I suggest it bugged and not as OP as suggested. Fix the bug first and then see.

The heal only happens when a condition applied. I suggest once the bug fixed if people simply use regular tactics to avoid Torment adds (ie dodge the shatters) the heals will not be overpowering. The reason it looks so now is even if you dodge/block avoid the torment adds it works on every other condition.

[apharma.3741]

@babazhook.6805 said:The rune seems to proc on every condition and not just torment. I suggest it bugged and not as OP as suggested. Fix the bug first and then see.

The heal only happens when a condition applied. I suggest once the bug fixed if people simply use regular tactics to avoid Torment adds (ie dodge the shatters) the heals will not be overpowering. The reason it looks so now is even if you dodge/block avoid the torment adds it works on every other condition.

It's also very strong on rev atm, expect to see 2-3 revs running around together tormenting everything around with mallyx and herald. Just tested it in my guild hall and the rune is definitely healing off everything else so people really do need to wait till it's fixed.

[NICENIKESHOE.7128]

Rune of Tormenting: Fixed a bug that allowed conditions other than torment to trigger healing.

Still no toning down healing per stack.I guess rather than having 6k heal per dodge (with bleed etc) we now have 3k heal per dodgeThey either have no clue or just too proud to admit mistake.

[killfil.3472]

My eyes. Oh god.

[lifeshoutslive.4163]

Before this is going to be nerfed, what group content can I solo with this that's usually impossible? How far do I make it through Mythwright Gambit? Condi Mirage, that is. If I can solo this, I'll buy 6 of'em ;p

[apharma.3741]

@NICENIKESHOE.7128 said:

Rune of Tormenting: Fixed a bug that allowed conditions other than torment to trigger healing.

Still no toning down healing per stack.I guess rather than having 6k heal per dodge (with bleed etc) we now have 3k heal per dodgeThey either have no clue or just too proud to admit mistake.

That would require hitting someone with 17 stacks of torment. I think if you're hitting someone with that much torment it wouldn't matter, the person has bigger issues than you healing off the torment applied.

If it's vs a few other players maybe it has merit but as this is the mesmer area mesmer scales poorly when you get over 3 players fighting it. Usual rules apply, if the guy is running off half the time, don't chase and just bomb them away when they come back.

[Pyroatheist.9031]

I think fixing the bug first was an appropriate course of action. However, it still seems like these runes are rather significantly overtuned, so I'd expect a nerf.

[Cyninja.2954]

Let me put this in a perspective that most people will understand:

If this Rune remains overpowered there will be 1 of 2 approaches taken to remedy the situation (or both):

A. the rune gets nerfed or reworked

B. mirage gets nerfed because we all know how well people separate class and rune balance

You now get to chose which course of action you are more in favor of. For all I care, remove the rune from the game.

[InsaneQR.7412]

The rune will get nerfed surely.ICD of 1s maybe.Or just a lower heal overall so its more sustain instead of a full heal with some ambushed.

[Nepster.4275]

Hmm, is this rune works in WvW too? Would be a great thing to call out ANet to balance it to a normal level...

[NICENIKESHOE.7128]

@apharma.3741 said:

@NICENIKESHOE.7128 said:

Rune of Tormenting: Fixed a bug that allowed conditions other than torment to trigger healing.

Still no toning down healing per stack.I guess rather than having 6k heal per dodge (with bleed etc) we now have 3k heal per dodgeThey either have no clue or just too proud to admit mistake.

That would require hitting someone with 17 stacks of torment. I think if you're hitting someone with that much torment it wouldn't matter, the person has bigger issues than you healing off the torment applied.

If it's vs a few other players maybe it has merit but as this is the mesmer area mesmer scales poorly when you get over 3 players fighting it. Usual rules apply, if the guy is running off half the time, don't chase and just bomb them away when they come back.

Mate you can pick on the numbers if you want, you know my point.This amount of torment is very much achieveable in WvW/PvE, the amount of healing it brings should be much less in the first place.

[tinyreborn.1938]

Conditions are still a problem in wvw with FB/new sigils/runes ? Interesting... :D

[NICENIKESHOE.7128]

"Fighting overtuned aspect with overtuned aspect" is merely distracting the discussion.Stop with the ignorance and see what the runes can do, there are already plenty of video on it.

[eldrjth.7384]

If they changed it again I wont be too happy since I crafted mine after they changed it thinking it would have settled down in a place they were happy with. Also it was stated that creating these interesting 6th rune benefits was one of the goals.

[Pyroatheist.9031]

@"eldrjth.7384" said:If they changed it again I wont be too happy since I crafted mine after they changed it thinking it would have settled down in a place they were happy with. Also it was stated that creating these interesting 6th rune benefits was one of the goals.

Interesting 6th rune benefits doesn't mean "jaw-droppingly powerful 6th rune benefits". There's a difference.

[NICENIKESHOE.7128]

Oh no one is doubting 6th bonus, I trust most players are pretty happy with new and interesting interactions.But as always there should be fine tuning, the healed amount needs to be adjusted appropriate to torment's accessibility on rev/mesmer/necro.

So that we don't have silly people who like strawman argument and invoking kneejerk balance like what we just had with Abrasive Grit (which I still believe having AG not proc off Sanctuary is way smarter than slapping lazy ICD)

[apharma.3741]

@Cyninja.2954 said:Let me put this in a perspective that most people will understand:

If this Rune remains overpowered there will be 1 of 2 approaches taken to remedy the situation (or both):

A. the rune gets nerfed or reworked

B. mirage gets nerfed because we all know how well people separate class and rune balance

You now get to chose which course of action you are more in favor of. For all I care, remove the rune from the game.

Awwww you think only one of those will happen. We both know it'll be both given how many people who have devs ears hate mesmer :smile:

[Cyninja.2954]

@apharma.3741 said:

@"Cyninja.2954" said:Let me put this in a perspective that most people will understand:

If this Rune remains overpowered there will be 1 of 2 approaches taken to remedy the situation (or both):

A. the rune gets nerfed or reworked

B. mirage gets nerfed because we all know how well people separate class and rune balance

You now get to chose which course of action you are more in favor of. For all I care, remove the rune from the game.

Awwww you think only one of those will happen. We both know it'll be both given how many people who have devs ears hate mesmer :smile:

Yeah, here was me hoping we could have nice things :s

In all seriousness, I wouldn't jump on any bandwagon of OP rune an sigil synergy right now and not expect changes.

Want to steamroll people with OP setups? Fine go for it (I personally don't but am not one to tell people not to do everything possible to win). Don't expect people to feel sorry though when you are out of gold when balance hits. It's the price you pay for such fun.

That said, at the very least Arenanet managed to make people try stuff and experiment with runes and sigils again. Fun times, even if it will only last until a new meta is formed. Everyone try to enjoy this period of "what should I try next?" uncertainty.

[NICENIKESHOE.7128]

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/744385

Runes of tormenting under radar.

[apharma.3741]

@Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 said:

@perilisk.1874 said:Would it be possible to just have Abrasive Grit as a modifier on punishment and shade skills that triggers when those skills apply barrier?

Not on this kind of timeline. We'd also need to discuss that further and test it for other potential consequences.

@Apokriphos.7042 said:Dear Irenio,

Will you and the other developers be looking at the impact of this rune while ressing?Will you also be looking at the impact of other rune sets that may be overpowered without a cooldown such as superior rune of torment?

We've been looking at the impact of Rune of Sanctuary while ressing.We're going to keep watching them, including Rune of Torment, and adjusting runes as needed.

[babazhook.6805]

The Rune fine with the changes. a 13 stack torment application is still only a 2200 heal. I get more on my warrior with a shout and have 6 shouts I can use right after the other. If you are consitently getting it with 13 torment stacks every dodge or shatter, you have more to worry about then whether it healed uyp the enemy by 2k.

[Cyninja.2954]

@babazhook.6805 said:The Rune fine with the changes. a 13 stack torment application is still only a 2200 heal. I get more on my warrior with a shout and have 6 shouts I can use right after the other. If you are consitently getting it with 13 torment stacks every dodge or shatter, you have more to worry about then whether it healed uyp the enemy by 2k.

and you did the math for more than just single target? Say when shattering and hitting more than 1 target (when 1v2 or 1v3 fighting in WvW or Spvp)?

Warrior shouts do not scale up according to enemy last time I checked, at least not the healing component. That is not even getting into the issues that this heal is on your main offensive and defensive ability as mirage, your dodge.

[apharma.3741]

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@apharma.3741 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:Let me put this in a perspective that most people will understand:

If this Rune remains overpowered there will be 1 of 2 approaches taken to remedy the situation (or both):

A. the rune gets nerfed or reworked

B. mirage gets nerfed because we all know how well people separate class and rune balance

You now get to chose which course of action you are more in favor of. For all I care, remove the rune from the game.

Awwww you think only one of those will happen. We both know it'll be both given how many people who have devs ears hate mesmer :smile:

Yeah, here was me hoping we could have nice things :s

In all seriousness, I wouldn't jump on any bandwagon of OP rune an sigil synergy right now and not expect changes.

Want to steamroll people with OP setups? Fine go for it (I personally don't but am not one to tell people not to do everything possible to win). Don't expect people to feel sorry though when you are out of gold when balance hits. It's the price you pay for such fun.

That said, at the very least Arenanet managed to make people try stuff and experiment with runes and sigils again. Fun times, even if it will only last until a new meta is formed. Everyone try to enjoy this period of "what should I try next?" uncertainty.

Yeah I had 6 from a long time ago that I tested with legendary armour. Made a bit of money from crafting and selling runes of tormenting when the margin was much higher. To be honest I miss traveller runes most of the time, that +25% movement speed makes a big difference to getting away and not getting away when everyone and their mum has swiftness coming out of their eyeballs.

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@babazhook.6805 said:The Rune fine with the changes. a 13 stack torment application is still only a 2200 heal. I get more on my warrior with a shout and have 6 shouts I can use right after the other. If you are consitently getting it with 13 torment stacks every dodge or shatter, you have more to worry about then whether it healed uyp the enemy by 2k.

and you did the math for more than just single target? Say when shattering and hitting more than 1 target (when 1v2 or 1v3 fighting in WvW or Spvp)?

Warrior shouts do not scale up according to enemy last time I checked, at least not the healing component. That is not even getting into the issues that this heal is on your main offensive and defensive ability as mirage, your dodge.

Yes it does scale better but condi mesmer effectiveness goes down when fighting 1v3 and higher. 1v2 might be the sweet spot but 1v3 and higher I doubt it will be an issue other than this mesmer heals a lot more just it explodes because sustained damage is bonkers from roamers like holo, soulbeast, rev, warrior and condition output of a supported scourge (yes you see this roaming) will annihilate you.