Change to Superior Rune of Nightmare not a good change.

[RaidsAreEasyAF.8652]

@Astralporing.1957 said:Which ones? because the new oils do not compensate for anything, as they aren't really better than what we've had up to now.

The new Oil is ~5% more boon duration than the previous utility.At least the Oil for power. I didnt look at the condi one yet but i assume its also ~5%.

[phs.6089]

@Nephalem.8921 said:

@Khisanth.2948 said:Replace the set with 6 Tempest runes.

You are only losing 39 condition damage. That is -2 damage per tick per stack on the low end for bleeding and -6 damage per tick per stack on the high end for burning. That is -151 DPS difference assuming you sustain 25 burn stacks.

You are losing 64 condition damage. Old setup had 100 condition damage. No need to run tempest runes. Nightmare runes are just better but they have the useless fear duration. Just feels wrong to select useless stats just because there is no good option with all usefull boni.

No, 100 damage was lost in nightmare/trapper setup to benefit condi duration

@Khisanth.2948 said:Replace the set with 6 Tempest runes.

You are only losing 39 condition damage. That is -2 damage per tick per stack on the low end for bleeding and -6 damage per tick per stack on the high end for burning. That is -151 DPS difference assuming you sustain 25 burn stacks.

I'll take this, have no other option but Tempes doesn't look bad(1): +8 to All Stats(2): +5% Condition Duration(3): +12 to All Stats(4): +10% Condition Duration(5): +16 to All Stats(6): +10% condition duration; heal nearby allies when you break a stun (radius 360).

[Nephalem.8921]

@phs.6089 said:I'll take this, have no other option but Tempes doen't look bad

Have you read what i wrote before? 6 nightmare is better than 6 tempest in every way for condi damage. All stats don't include expertise.Nightmare has just way more beneficial stats even with that useless fear duration.

[phs.6089]

@Nephalem.8921 said:

@phs.6089 said:I'll take this, have no other option but Tempes doen't look bad

Have you read what i wrote before? 6 nightmare is better than 6 tempest in every way for condi damage. All stats don't include expertise.Nightmare has just way more beneficial stats even with that useless fear duration.

We were talking of nighmare/trapper setup, that 100 damage won't make up for those ticks

[Nephalem.8921]

@phs.6089 said:

@Nephalem.8921 said:

@phs.6089 said:I'll take this, have no other option but Tempes doen't look bad

Have you read what i wrote before? 6 nightmare is better than 6 tempest in every way for condi damage. All stats don't include expertise.Nightmare has just way more beneficial stats even with that useless fear duration.

We were talking of nighmare/trapper setup, that 100 damage won't make up for those ticks

Its actually EXACTLY the same as before if you use stat infusions. New setup has 75 condi damage more than old. Thats exactly 15 infusions which you had as condi damage before. Switch that and there is no difference at all since 75 expertise equals 5% condi duration.But it seems that the 75 condi dmg is better than capping condi duration so it doesn't really matter. Needs further testing.

[phs.6089]

@Nephalem.8921 said:

@phs.6089 said:

@Nephalem.8921 said:

@phs.6089 said:I'll take this, have no other option but Tempes doen't look bad

Have you read what i wrote before? 6 nightmare is better than 6 tempest in every way for condi damage. All stats don't include expertise.Nightmare has just way more beneficial stats even with that useless fear duration.

We were talking of nighmare/trapper setup, that 100 damage won't make up for those ticks

Its actually EXACTLY the same as before if you use stat infusions. New setup has 75 condi damage more than old. Thats exactly 15 infusions which you had as condi damage before. Switch that and there is no difference at all since 75 expertise equals 5% condi duration.But it seems that the 75 condi dmg is better than capping condi duration so it doesn't really matter. Needs further testing.

send the moneys my way to upgrade my x18 Agony resistance to +5/+9 please

[Nephalem.8921]

@phs.6089 said:

@Nephalem.8921 said:

@phs.6089 said:

@Nephalem.8921 said:

@phs.6089 said:I'll take this, have no other option but Tempes doen't look bad

Have you read what i wrote before? 6 nightmare is better than 6 tempest in every way for condi damage. All stats don't include expertise.Nightmare has just way more beneficial stats even with that useless fear duration.

We were talking of nighmare/trapper setup, that 100 damage won't make up for those ticks

Its actually EXACTLY the same as before if you use stat infusions. New setup has 75 condi damage more than old. Thats exactly 15 infusions which you had as condi damage before. Switch that and there is no difference at all since 75 expertise equals 5% condi duration.But it seems that the 75 condi dmg is better than capping condi duration so it doesn't really matter. Needs further testing.

send the moneys my way to upgrade my x18 Agony resistance to +5/+9 please

You dont need agony infusions on a condi set. Just use cheap wvsw ones. There is just no reason to optimize something super bad like a condi build for fractals.Baelfire might be better than nightmare though since it allows 2 different sigil slots because you dont need smoldering on rene anymore. Needs further testing though.

[phs.6089]

I want my nightmare runes fixed! flipstable Why fear, Anet? jus why?

[Qusto.6731]

Bcs anet wants that 'make dungeons great again' ...Me(Guild chat): lets do TA guysNo answer bcs everyone got %10 fear duration and you know what does it mean so noone there...

[Despond.2174]

Sigh... why? My usual main for fractals Condi SB is now 15% less duration. Mixing runes was cool, it should be encouraged to come up with combos and not just have to have every rune of the set. What are people using now? If I go 6 nightmare, I am still 5% less duration than the old trapper/nightmare set up.

[Khisanth.2948]

@Despond.2174 said:Sigh... why? My usual main for fractals Condi SB is now 15% less duration. Mixing runes was cool, it should be encouraged to come up with combos and not just have to have every rune of the set. What are people using now? If I go 6 nightmare, I am still 5% less duration than the old trapper/nightmare set up.

Replace the trapper runes with 2 nightmare runes or replace the full set with tempest.

Old nightmare + trapper was 25% duration and 100 condition damage(1): +25 Condition Damage(2): +5% Condition Duration(3): +50 Condition Damage(4): +10% Condition Duration(1): +25 Condition Damage(2): The duration of conditions you apply last 10% longer.

Full current nightmare is 20% duration and 175 condition damage, -5% duration +75 condition damage(1): +25 Condition Damage(2): +10% Fear Duration(3): +50 Condition Damage(4): +10% Condition Duration(5): +100 Condition Damage(6): +10% condition duration; when you use an elite skill, deliver an attack (240 radius) that blinds enemies and transfers one condition. (Cooldown: 45s)

The fear duration is useless but you still get a 20% general duration

Full current tempest is 25% duration and 36 condition damage(and other stats but we are ignoring due to laziness)(1): +8 to All Stats(2): +5% Condition Duration(3): +12 to All Stats(4): +10% Condition Duration(5): +16 to All Stats(6): +10% condition duration; heal nearby allies when you break a stun (radius 360).

These changes are probably the biggest molehills in the patch.

[Quarktastic.1027]

@Nephalem.8921 said:

@phs.6089 said:

@Nephalem.8921 said:

@phs.6089 said:

@Nephalem.8921 said:

@phs.6089 said:I'll take this, have no other option but Tempes doen't look bad

Have you read what i wrote before? 6 nightmare is better than 6 tempest in every way for condi damage. All stats don't include expertise.Nightmare has just way more beneficial stats even with that useless fear duration.

We were talking of nighmare/trapper setup, that 100 damage won't make up for those ticks

Its actually EXACTLY the same as before if you use stat infusions. New setup has 75 condi damage more than old. Thats exactly 15 infusions which you had as condi damage before. Switch that and there is no difference at all since 75 expertise equals 5% condi duration.But it seems that the 75 condi dmg is better than capping condi duration so it doesn't really matter. Needs further testing.

send the moneys my way to upgrade my x18 Agony resistance to +5/+9 please

You dont need agony infusions on a condi set. Just use cheap wvsw ones. There is just no reason to optimize something super bad like a condi build for fractals.Baelfire might be better than nightmare though since it allows 2 different sigil slots because you dont need smoldering on rene anymore. Needs further testing though.

If you're not going to play condi renegade in end game content, why even bother optimizing it in the first place?

[Draco.9480]

replace fear duration with 5% condi duration and that's. no one likes using fear cuz it's useless.

[Nephalem.8921]

@Quarktastic.1027 said:

@Nephalem.8921 said:

@phs.6089 said:

@Nephalem.8921 said:

@phs.6089 said:

@Nephalem.8921 said:

@phs.6089 said:I'll take this, have no other option but Tempes doen't look bad

Have you read what i wrote before? 6 nightmare is better than 6 tempest in every way for condi damage. All stats don't include expertise.Nightmare has just way more beneficial stats even with that useless fear duration.

We were talking of nighmare/trapper setup, that 100 damage won't make up for those ticks

Its actually EXACTLY the same as before if you use stat infusions. New setup has 75 condi damage more than old. Thats exactly 15 infusions which you had as condi damage before. Switch that and there is no difference at all since 75 expertise equals 5% condi duration.But it seems that the 75 condi dmg is better than capping condi duration so it doesn't really matter. Needs further testing.

send the moneys my way to upgrade my x18 Agony resistance to +5/+9 please

You dont need agony infusions on a condi set. Just use cheap wvsw ones. There is just no reason to optimize something super bad like a condi build for fractals.Baelfire might be better than nightmare though since it allows 2 different sigil slots because you dont need smoldering on rene anymore. Needs further testing though.

If you're not going to play condi renegade in end game content, why even bother optimizing it in the first place?

Renegade is super awesome in raids. Play it there a lot. It's just that condi builds are really not good in fractals. As soon as you play with people that know what cc is and how a breakbar works everything is just so much faster with power builds. Show me 80k-100k burst with condi builds on skorvald for example. Same with trash.

I wasn't talking about omtimizing rev in general just that optimizing something like a condi rev with 150ar for fractals is just super bad. the 2% dps difference is nothing compared to the 100-150% you miss for playing a condi build in the first place.

And geting stat infusions without 150ar is so much cheaper. You can just use wvsw or the +5 infusions.

[Eramonster.2718]

@Despond.2174 said:Sigh... why? My usual main for fractals Condi SB is now 15% less duration. Mixing runes was cool, it should be encouraged to come up with combos and not just have to have every rune of the set. What are people using now? If I go 6 nightmare, I am still 5% less duration than the old trapper/nightmare set up.

I'm trying another alternative, not tempest/nightmare instead.

From - Trapper+Nightmare / Geomancy+Agony setup :

+100 condi+45% bleed+25% poison+25% burn

• Inflict (3) bleeding on nearby foes for 8 seconds when you swap to this weapon while in combat. (Cooldown: 9 Seconds)

To - Afflicted / Bursting+Malice :

+175 condi+40% bleed+30% poison+20% burn

• 5% condi dmg (Bursting)
• When you kill a foe, you create a death nova at their location. (Cooldown: 15s)

Having a slight increase in dps over some small sample of pve contents. Not sure if the overall dmg increased is from replacing Sigil of Geomancy with Sigil of Bursting though, will need more test. Haven't tested it in raids.

[phs.6089]

@Eramonster.2718 said:

@Despond.2174 said:Sigh... why? My usual main for fractals Condi SB is now 15% less duration. Mixing runes was cool, it should be encouraged to come up with combos and not just have to have every rune of the set. What are people using now? If I go 6 nightmare, I am still 5% less duration than the old trapper/nightmare set up.

I'm trying another alternative, not tempest/nightmare instead.

From - Trapper+Nightmare / Geomancy+Agony setup :

+100 condi+45% bleed+25% poison+25% burn

• Inflict (3) bleeding on nearby foes for 8 seconds when you swap to this weapon while in combat. (Cooldown: 9 Seconds)

To - Afflicted / Bursting+Malice :

+175 condi+40% bleed+30% poison+20% burn

• 5%
  condi dmg (Bursting)
• When you kill a foe, you create a death nova at their location. (Cooldown: 15s)

Having a slight increase in dps over some small sample of pve contents. Not sure if the overall dmg increased is from replacing Sigil of Geomancy with Sigil of Bursting though, will need more test. Haven't tested it in raids.

I did test this

To - Afflicted / Bursting+Malice :

+175 condi+40% bleed+30% poison+20% burn

• 5% condi dmg (Bursting)

given they fixed Bursting sigil, going with it for now> @Draco.9480 said:

replace fear duration with 5% condi duration and that's. no one likes using fear cuz it's useless.

Please Anet!