How to Properly Balance Rune of the Sanctuary

[shadowpass.4236]

I think a lot of people are overreacting to the rework of this sigil. It essentially increases the amount of healing you gain actively (does not affect passive regen) by 20%. The rune is good on most classes and effective in many different variations of builds. It is NOT (in my opinion) overpowered.

However, after playing ranked/unranked for several hours today, both as and against other Scourges, I've come to the conclusion that the only broken interaction the rune has is with resurrecting downed bodies. This isn't an issue with Scourge specifically, but the rune basically gives everyone a free 10% additional res speed. This, combined with other res traits/utilities means that cleaving a downed body becomes nearly impossible in a team fight when multiple people coordinate the res.

So, my suggestion is to prevent Rune of the Sanctuary from affecting downed bodies. Everything else seems fine to me.

---

Also, it's worth noting that Scourges have stronger condi clear and easy access to might with this rune. Even then, I still don't think it's necessarily broken. Scourges still die to power damage and the condi clear is roughly as strong as Diamond Skin while Desert Shroud and Transfusion are on cooldown. You can check out my latest broadcast on twitch to see how I deal with Blood Scourges both in a mirror matchup and as a variety of other classes and builds.

If you (Anet) were to fix this "issue," putting a .5s or 1s ICD (possibly per target) on Abrasive Grit solves the problem without any dire consequences.

[Mighty Assasin.3816]

solid troll 10/10

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

It's only broken with Scourge because of the rune proccing off of Vampiric (and Vampiric Aura). Remove those two from the effects that trigger the rune and it will be fine.

[tinyreborn.1938]

@Mighty Assasin.3816 said:solid troll 10/10Pretty muchHow to balance sanctuary runes : shift+deleteFor unknown reasons pack runes were butchered out of PvP . I dont see any reason to let this rune survive

[Crab Fear.1624]

delete it from game...solved

[XECOR.2814]

@"shadowpass.4236" said:I think a lot of people are overreacting to the rework of this sigil. It essentially increases the amount of healing you gain actively (does not affect passive regen) by 20%. The rune is good on most classes and effective in many different variations of builds. It is NOT (in my opinion) overpowered.

However, after playing ranked/unranked for several hours today, both as and against other Scourges, I've come to the conclusion that the only broken interaction the rune has is with resurrecting downed bodies. This isn't an issue with Scourge specifically, but the rune basically gives everyone a free 10% additional res speed. This, combined with other res traits/utilities means that cleaving a downed body becomes nearly impossible in a team fight when multiple people coordinate the res.

So, my suggestion is to prevent Rune of the Sanctuary from affecting downed bodies. Everything else seems fine to me.

---

Also, it's worth noting that Scourges have stronger condi clear and easy access to might with this rune. Even then, I still don't think it's necessarily broken. Scourges still die to power damage and the condi clear is roughly as strong as Diamond Skin while Desert Shroud and Transfusion are on cooldown. You can check out my latest broadcast on twitch to see how I deal with Blood Scourges both in a mirror matchup and as a variety of other classes and builds.

If you (Anet) were to fix this "issue," putting a .5s or 1s ICD (possibly per target) on Abrasive Grit solves the problem without any dire consequences.

Lol other classes like engi/rev/druid benefit from it too. Why nerf necro trait only. Just put the cd on rune not the trait. Honestly fed up of anything broken on release and anet nerfing necro instead of the core issue.

[sephiroth.4217]

@tinyreborn.1938 said:

@Mighty Assasin.3816 said:solid troll 10/10Pretty muchHow to balance sanctuary runes : shift+deleteFor unknown reasons pack runes were butchered out of PvP . I dont see any reason to let this rune survive

For the past few years if you suggest any rune other than pack for power damage all the top players come rushing in to tell you why pack is better... It would appear that they accidentally nerfed themselves on this one lol

They buffed my infiltration runes im obsessed with on most builds but removed my passive stealth and target break ?

[shadowpass.4236]

As I said, "I think a lot of people are overreacting to the rework of this sigil."

Put a 1s ICD on Abrasive Grit + prevent the rune from affecting downed players. This stops Blood Scourge from stacking 25 might and cuts the condition clear down to 1 per second max (similar to diamond skin). It also slows res speeds to more manageable numbers and prevents people from getting max barrier after getting picked up.

[Crab Fear.1624]

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@tinyreborn.1938 said:

@Mighty Assasin.3816 said:solid troll 10/10Pretty muchHow to balance sanctuary runes : shift+deleteFor unknown reasons pack runes were butchered out of PvP . I dont see any reason to let this rune survive

For the past few years if you suggest any rune other than pack for power damage all the top players come rushing in to tell you why pack is better... It would appear that they accidentally nerfed themselves on this one lol

They buffed my infiltration runes im obsessed with on most builds but removed my passive stealth and target break ?

scholar is better.

if they rush, ignore. they have no brain

[Sigmoid.7082]

@"shadowpass.4236" said:As I said, "I think a lot of people are overreacting to the rework of this sigil."

Put a 1s ICD on Abrasive Grit + prevent the rune from affecting downed players. This stops Blood Scourge from stacking 25 might and cuts the condition clear down to 1 per second max (similar to diamond skin). It also slows res speeds to more manageable numbers and prevents people from getting max barrier after getting picked up.

You're missing everyone's point. If the rune itself is broken why nerf the class? The only knee jerk going on is you saying nerf the trait and not the root cause.

The runes interaction with ressing and life siphon needs to change or the tune needs to be removed.

[tinyreborn.1938]

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@tinyreborn.1938 said:

@Mighty Assasin.3816 said:solid troll 10/10Pretty muchHow to balance sanctuary runes : shift+deleteFor unknown reasons pack runes were butchered out of PvP . I dont see any reason to let this rune survive

For the past few years if you suggest any rune other than pack for power damage all the top players come rushing in to tell you why pack is better... It would appear that they accidentally nerfed themselves on this one lol

They buffed my infiltration runes im obsessed with on most builds but removed my passive stealth and target break ?Aaaaaaand how does it change things? Now scholar is bandwagon rune for power specs(that want to do damage) with more consistent bonus as ferocity. There wasnt even choices and still I dont see too many options@Crab Fear.1624 said:

scholar is better.

if they rush, ignore. they have no brainIf they like pack more then they have no brain ? Its safe to say everyone who think scholar is better have no brain! If ppl ask for thief buff they have no brain either. ;)

[Za Shaloc.3908]

An ICD should absolutely not be put on Abrasive Grit. It was not OP beforehand so should not take a hit. Even with a 1s ICD the rune shouldn't grant that much condi clear and might-stacking power. It's too little investment for too high reward. Diamond Skin is not really a fair comparison IMO.

[NICENIKESHOE.7128]

Er...no having 1 condi cleanse every 0.5 or 1s without any effort or active skill usage is still beyond broken.

Just make it so Runes of Sanctuary doesn't affect vampiric/vampiric aura rather than ICD on Abrasive gift. Other siphons like signet of vampirism is still fine.

[shadowpass.4236]

@Sigmoid.7082 said:

@"shadowpass.4236" said:As I said, "I think a lot of people are overreacting to the rework of this sigil."

Put a 1s ICD on Abrasive Grit + prevent the rune from affecting downed players. This stops Blood Scourge from stacking 25 might and cuts the condition clear down to 1 per second max (similar to diamond skin). It also slows res speeds to more manageable numbers and prevents people from getting max barrier after getting picked up.

You're missing everyone's point. If the rune itself is broken why nerf the class? The only knee jerk going on is you saying nerf the trait and not the root cause.

The runes interaction with ressing and life siphon needs to change or the tune needs to be removed.

That's exactly my point. The rune isn't broken. The issues are with it's interaction with Blood Scourge's Abrasive Grit and the bonus res speed.

Rune of Sanctuary is balanced on every other class. The knee-jerk reaction would be to nerf the rune instead of solving the actual issues.

[GladConcept.4650]

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@Sigmoid.7082 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:As I said, "I think a lot of people are overreacting to the rework of this sigil."

Put a 1s ICD on Abrasive Grit + prevent the rune from affecting downed players. This stops Blood Scourge from stacking 25 might and cuts the condition clear down to 1 per second max (similar to diamond skin). It also slows res speeds to more manageable numbers and prevents people from getting max barrier after getting picked up.

You're missing everyone's point. If the rune itself is broken why nerf the class? The only knee jerk going on is you saying nerf the trait and not the root cause.

The runes interaction with ressing and life siphon needs to change or the tune needs to be removed.

That's exactly my point. The rune isn't broken. The issues are with it's interaction with Blood Scourge's Abrasive Grit and the bonus res speed.

Rune of Sanctuary is balanced on every other class. The knee-jerk reaction would be to nerf the rune

instead

of solving the actual issues.

This guy gets it.

[reikken.4961]

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@Sigmoid.7082 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:As I said, "I think a lot of people are overreacting to the rework of this sigil."

Put a 1s ICD on Abrasive Grit + prevent the rune from affecting downed players. This stops Blood Scourge from stacking 25 might and cuts the condition clear down to 1 per second max (similar to diamond skin). It also slows res speeds to more manageable numbers and prevents people from getting max barrier after getting picked up.

You're missing everyone's point. If the rune itself is broken why nerf the class? The only knee jerk going on is you saying nerf the trait and not the root cause.

The runes interaction with ressing and life siphon needs to change or the tune needs to be removed.

That's exactly my point. The rune isn't broken. The issues are with it's interaction with Blood Scourge's Abrasive Grit and the bonus res speed.

Rune of Sanctuary is balanced on every other class. The knee-jerk reaction would be to nerf the rune

instead

of solving the actual issues.

The problem is that your suggestion of an ICD on the trait is also not correctly targeted. It hinders a perfectly balanced trait for no reason. There's nothing broken about a scourge popping several barrier cooldowns at once to deal with condi burst. But an ICD would prevent that from happening, among other things

The best fix is one that specifically targets the interaction between the rune and the trait. Not the rune itself. Nor the trait.Some better options are things likeAdd a check that if the barrier came from rune of sanctuary, it doesn't trigger the trait.Make the rune not function with the two vampiric traits specifically (or life siphon in general)etc

since this is very much an edge case. Nothing else is wrong with the rune or trait (other than revives)

from a mechanics standpoint, I'd guess an easy way to fix the problem is have barrier applied by rune of sanctuary to count as from a separate source instead of from the character, so that way traits aren't triggered at all.But it already doesn't work on regeneration, so making it not work on vampiric shouldn't be too difficult.

[shadowpass.4236]

@reikken.4961 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:

@Sigmoid.7082 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:As I said, "I think a lot of people are overreacting to the rework of this sigil."

Put a 1s ICD on Abrasive Grit + prevent the rune from affecting downed players. This stops Blood Scourge from stacking 25 might and cuts the condition clear down to 1 per second max (similar to diamond skin). It also slows res speeds to more manageable numbers and prevents people from getting max barrier after getting picked up.

You're missing everyone's point. If the rune itself is broken why nerf the class? The only knee jerk going on is you saying nerf the trait and not the root cause.

The runes interaction with ressing and life siphon needs to change or the tune needs to be removed.

That's exactly my point. The rune isn't broken. The issues are with it's interaction with Blood Scourge's Abrasive Grit and the bonus res speed.

Rune of Sanctuary is balanced on every other class. The knee-jerk reaction would be to nerf the rune

instead

of solving the actual issues.

The problem is that your suggestion of an ICD on the trait is also not correctly targeted. It hinders a perfectly balanced trait for no reason. There's nothing broken about a scourge popping several barrier cooldowns at once to deal with condi burst. But an ICD would prevent that from happening, among other things

The best fix is one that specifically targets the interaction between the rune and the trait. Not the rune itself. Nor the trait.Some better options are things likeAdd a check that if the barrier came from rune of sanctuary, it doesn't trigger the trait.Make the rune not function with the two vampiric traits specifically (or life siphon in general)etc

since this is very much an edge case. Nothing else is wrong with the rune or trait (other than revives)

from a mechanics standpoint, I'd guess an easy way to fix the problem is have barrier applied by rune of sanctuary to count as from a separate source instead of from the character, so that way traits aren't triggered at all.But it already doesn't work on regeneration, so making it not work on vampiric shouldn't be too difficult.

Hm. I think Rune of the Sanctuary interacting with Vampiric/Vampiric Presence is fine.

The issue isn't the tiny amount of additional sustain, it's the might and condition clear you get from Abrasive Grit. I suggested that the ICD on AG be 1s per target. This would still still enable Scourge to cleanse several conditions while lowering it's effectiveness against lower numbers of enemies.

[reikken.4961]

@shadowpass.4236 said:The issue isn't the tiny amount of additional sustain, it's the might and condition clear you get from Abrasive Grit. I suggested that the ICD on AG be 1s per target. This would still still enable Scourge to cleanse several conditions while lowering it's effectiveness against lower numbers of enemies.

I see you're proposing a nerf to scourge rather than merely addressing the rune oversight. If you think a nerf to scourge's condi clear is warranted (in absence of the rune), I disagree, but that's a separate topic.

[sephiroth.4217]

@tinyreborn.1938 said:

@sephiroth.4217 said:

@tinyreborn.1938 said:

@Mighty Assasin.3816 said:solid troll 10/10Pretty muchHow to balance sanctuary runes : shift+deleteFor unknown reasons pack runes were butchered out of PvP . I dont see any reason to let this rune survive

For the past few years if you suggest any rune other than pack for power damage all the top players come rushing in to tell you why pack is better... It would appear that they accidentally nerfed themselves on this one lol

They buffed my infiltration runes im obsessed with on most builds but removed my passive stealth and target break ?Aaaaaaand how does it change things? Now scholar is bandwagon rune for power specs(that want to do damage) with more consistent bonus as ferocity. There wasnt even choices and still I dont see too many options@Crab Fear.1624 said:

scholar is better.

if they rush, ignore. they have no brainIf they like pack more then they have no brain ? Its safe to say everyone who think scholar is better have no brain! If ppl ask for thief buff they have no brain either. ;)

Infiltration is a good choice ?

[sephiroth.4217]

@reikken.4961 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:The issue isn't the tiny amount of additional sustain, it's the might and condition clear you get from Abrasive Grit. I suggested that the ICD on AG be 1s per target. This would still still enable Scourge to cleanse several conditions while lowering it's effectiveness against lower numbers of enemies.

I see you're proposing a nerf to scourge rather than merely addressing the rune oversight. If you think a nerf to scourge's condi clear is warranted (in absence of the rune), I disagree, but that's a separate topic.

Hopefully no runes or sigils get nerfed until im done having fun with aura share builds ?

[shadowpass.4236]

@reikken.4961 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:The issue isn't the tiny amount of additional sustain, it's the might and condition clear you get from Abrasive Grit. I suggested that the ICD on AG be 1s per target. This would still still enable Scourge to cleanse several conditions while lowering it's effectiveness against lower numbers of enemies.

I see you're proposing a nerf to scourge rather than merely addressing the rune oversight. If you think a nerf to scourge's condi clear is warranted (in absence of the rune), I disagree, but that's a separate topic.

The rune alone is a massive buff to Blood Scourge's condition clear. The nerf I proposed simply makes it a smaller buff.

[Kumouta.4985]

make them affect allies instead of you and reduce the percentage of barrier gained. Done. No more condi immune tankier than normal scourges, but they get to clear condis of allies and be better healers. And you can focus burst them down as easy as always.Please don't nerf necro because of a rune. Just change the rune.

[NICENIKESHOE.7128]

@shadowpass.4236 said:

Hm. I think Rune of the Sanctuary interacting with Vampiric/Vampiric Presence is fine.

The issue isn't the tiny amount of additional sustain, it's the might and condition clear you get from Abrasive Grit. I suggested that the ICD on AG be 1s per target. This would still still enable Scourge to cleanse several conditions while lowering it's effectiveness against lower numbers of enemies.

How many class do you think can actually cleanse 1 condi per second per target on any attack?

Vampiric/vampire aura's effect on runes is quite minimal though (5 health or so), in terms of healing I see no real loss with runes not proccing with those traits.In terms of might/condi cleanse of AG, I think any compromise that allows runes of sanctuary to proc off Vampiric + AG is direct powercreep that encourages passive gameplay.

It's not like Runes of Sanctuary is useless without this interaction. It already does decent passive bonuses with heals like other classes, also giving some AG added bonus to heal skills (core or not), dagger 2 and some utility skills.

[FaboBabo.3581]

Guys , immunity against Conditions and 30 Stacks of Might is balance.Is k.Now give Quickness for everyone.

[shadowpass.4236]

@NICENIKESHOE.7128 said:

@shadowpass.4236 said:

Hm. I think Rune of the Sanctuary interacting with Vampiric/Vampiric Presence is fine.

The issue isn't the tiny amount of additional sustain, it's the might and condition clear you get from Abrasive Grit. I suggested that the ICD on AG be 1s per target. This would still still enable Scourge to cleanse several conditions while lowering it's effectiveness against lower numbers of enemies.

How many class do you think can actually cleanse 1 condi per second per target on

any

attack?

Vampiric/vampire aura's effect on runes is quite minimal though (5 health or so), in terms of healing I see no real loss with runes not proccing with those traits.In terms of might/condi cleanse of AG, I think any compromise that allows runes of sanctuary to proc off Vampiric + AG is direct powercreep that encourages passive gameplay.

It's not like Runes of Sanctuary is useless without this interaction. It already does decent passive bonuses with heals like other classes, also giving some AG added bonus to heal skills (core or not), dagger 2 and some utility skills.

Ele has Diamond Skin which cleanses 1 condition every time they're hit above 75% health.

A 1s ICD on Abrasive Grit is still a massive buff over the previous iteration. Like I said, people are overreacting. On one hand, you have people seeking to nerf Rune of Sanctuary even though it's balanced on every class except Scourge (not including res interaction). On the other hand, you have players arguing that solving the issues directly (putting an ICD on Abrasive Grit, again, still a buff compared to what it was pre-patch) would be too harsh.

Rather than burst cleansing 2-3 conditions at once by popping multiple barrier skills, an ICD would be a passive 1 condi cleanse as long as you're attacking. Even a 2s ICD on AG would still be a buff in the long run.