Superior Runes of Sanctuary & Abrasive Grit [merged]

[Axl.8924]

I heard that eles were completely useless in spvp as tempest.I have heard that weaver has its issues with landing hits, and eles def have very low health, so they wont last very long with really strong hits.

[Dadnir.5038]

@"Snellibee.2761" said:it's clear that you've never used ele in a competitive scene, I am not underestimating regen, with todays power creep and CC the regen is almost useless as most classes need to use 3-4 skills to kill an ele, you just don't see the problem here.Thing is, there is only one viable build for weaver, wich is the mender healing bunker build. All other builds will get absolute kitten on in pvp.

Please, play in platinum as Weaver first before you even comment about the class, you have no idea what you're talking about at all.

PS: The health/toughness argument is very much valid for S/D Weavers. You take a class that can only participate in close melee combat ( 130 range) and you give it the lowest health and toughness of all classes. What do you get? A class that is extremely squishy and will get destroyed by anyone that has a sense of timing in their bones. If anything all these evades that we have is lackluster to how squishy our class is. Also don't forget, you can't attack while evading so if the Weaver is busting his kitten off getting all rotations right to take no damage, you will take no damage either.

Your explanation show it all. Seriously, the negative vocal elementalist community always lack the same quality: Adaptability. You all are fixed on a single build with huge preconception on what work and what doesn't, forgetting even the simplest rule. Unlike what you say the weaver is not forced into close combat. Unlike what you say the weaver is designed to stack health point and benefit from it. Please just relearn to play elementalist before lashing people with your "play platinum and see how bad we are!".

Beside, sPvP isn't a way to mesure how good a profession is, it mainly mesure how good a player is with the profession he want to play. People like to call that "skill". Be it weaver, reaper, holosmith or whatever, all professions are defined by strength and weakness, all professions have behaviors that they can or cannot afford. A good example being that necromancers cannot afford to walk around in PvP without a support on it's back. So again, relearn elementalist relearn how you need to play in PvP, relearn how to be adaptable in PvP, relearn what you need to win in PvP. Don't just throw your professions weaknesses as a way to justify your lack of mastery in playing elementalist.

That said, the thread is, again, about the nerf of a trait for the sake of a rune and in many way the weaver situation is extremly similar. Again, I didn't say that they needed to nerf weaver, nor should they have nerfed scourge, but the rune. If you are not able to understand the pain of another profession when your's is on the verge of being in a similar situation then it's really sad for you.

[Snellibee.2761]

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@"Snellibee.2761" said:it's clear that you've never used ele in a competitive scene, I am not underestimating regen, with todays power creep and CC the regen is almost useless as most classes need to use 3-4 skills to kill an ele, you just don't see the problem here.Thing is, there is only one viable build for weaver, wich is the mender healing bunker build. All other builds will get absolute kitten on in pvp.

Please, play in platinum as Weaver first before you even comment about the class, you have no idea what you're talking about at all.

PS: The health/toughness argument is very much valid for S/D Weavers. You take a class that can only participate in close melee combat ( 130 range) and you give it the lowest health and toughness of all classes. What do you get? A class that is extremely squishy and will get destroyed by anyone that has a sense of timing in their bones. If anything all these evades that we have is lackluster to how squishy our class is. Also don't forget, you can't attack while evading so if the Weaver is busting his kitten off getting all rotations right to take no damage, you will take no damage either.

Your explanation show it all. Seriously, the negative vocal elementalist community always lack the same quality: Adaptability. You all are fixed on a single build with huge preconception on what work and what doesn't, forgetting even the simplest rule. Unlike what you say the weaver is not forced into close combat. Unlike what you say the weaver is designed to stack health point and benefit from it. Please just relearn to play elementalist before lashing people with your "play platinum and see how bad we are!".

Beside, sPvP isn't a way to mesure how good a profession is, it mainly mesure how good a player is with the profession he want to play. People like to call that "skill". Be it weaver, reaper, holosmith or whatever, all professions are defined by strength and weakness, all professions have behaviors that they can or cannot afford. A good example being that necromancers cannot afford to walk around in PvP without a support on it's back. So again, relearn elementalist relearn how you need to play in PvP, relearn how to be adaptable in PvP, relearn what you need to win in PvP. Don't just throw your professions weaknesses as a way to justify your lack of mastery in playing elementalist.

That said, the thread is, again, about the nerf of a trait for the sake of a rune and in many way the weaver situation is extremly similar. Again, I didn't say that they needed to nerf weaver, nor should they have nerfed scourge, but the rune. If you are not able to understand the pain of another profession when your's is on the verge of being in a similar situation then it's really sad for you.

Talking about adaptability but you sure damn know theres no other build to play for S/D Weaver, also i'm talking about S/D (because any other weapon choice for Weaver is just retardedly bad), there you are forced into close combat, wich I ultimately don't care about, but the damage on sword is so low it's ridiculous. Going scepter on Weaver is even worse because they nerfed the damage but Scepter Weaver is so damn fragile it's just a joke. Theres plenty good people that agree on this.

sPvp is a very good way to see what classes are broken or not, not everything is skill, many people get carried by a build just because it's that hard to counter (Boonbeast) or that easy to play (Scourge).

The Rune of Sanctuary on Scourge and Rune of Evasion on Weaver have barely any similarities in strength. The reason either the rune or Scourge itself got nerfed is because it was just plain broken, you had permanent 25 might stacks and condi clean just when you attack, theres no limitation to attacking wich means the might stacks and condi clean were completely unlimited. For Weaver it's completely different. With rune of Evasion you clean one condi for each attack you evade. This means you need to use a resource (evasions) in order to clean the condi, also in order to clean many condi you'll need to time your evasions better so you evade most attacks possible.

People saying "well Weaver got unlimited evades so yeah" never even touched Weaver. Weaver has a total of 7 evades. 2 dodges everyone else has too, 2 utility evades with both 40 sec cooldown, 3 skill evades behind different attunements wich you need to be able to rotate attunements efficiently to use them properly, one of those evades also has a 40 sec cooldown, the other 12 and the last 8 (with reduced CD because of water trait). It is very much possible to run out of evades on Weaver, especially wich the powercreep on classes these days Weavers need to constantly evade any attack or they'll die within a second. You can't perma evade as Weaver and also deal any reasonable damage. Unless you're not pressuring enough the Weaver will run out of his dodges and from that moment you press 3 buttons and he's dead.

i'm not saying I think Scourge needed the nerf instead of rune of sanctuary, I'm just saying either one of the nerfs is justified and has nothing in common with Weaver and Rune of Evasion.

[Gustaff.6581]

Does any other profesion use rune of sanctuary or it was only useful to support necro?

[undouble.1472]

Does the "new" rune design need to be changed?? Most of us have characters that are "usually" trying to upgrade their armor--------WITHOUT having to ALWAYS buy/create new runesets for them. Under the "old" system, when we salvaged our "old" armor, we could "mostly" expect to retain the attached rune/sigil (s) for re-use on our updated equipment. (The same held true for updating weapons). Now-----------we either have to "extract" our runes/sigils/etc (at an additional cost) or make/buy another copy of the rune/sigil we ALREADY HAD!!!! Kinda redundant, ain't it???

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

@Conqueror.3682 said:Does any other profesion use rune of sanctuary or it was only useful to support necro?

It's actually good on everyone, as there are tons of heals being thrown about all over the place and the rune is effectively +20% healing.

[Gustaff.6581]

What do i want in a Support scourge is this:

• To give 25 stacks of might independently to a group of people.
• To give continuous barrier into the party, with inferior healing capabilities than other support classes.
• Good ressing skills

Thats all, why the might, because Scourge already have skills and traits that pulse might, the idea is to gain the same oportunity than a druid to give might into the party. The idea of barrier is that scourge's sustain is most suported by barrier rather than direct healing, but also healing is necesary. Last is good ressing skills which are already good just because this attribute, apart with boon management is unique in necro.

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

Superior Rune of Sanctuary: The barrier gained from this rune is now granted by the healer.

You couldn't have given the rune an actual fix? Make the rune grant a fixed size barrier when healed on a 5 second ICD when you're healed and revert Abrasive Grit!

[Brynioch.1873]

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

Superior Rune of Sanctuary: The barrier gained from this rune is now granted by the healer.

You couldn't have given the rune an actual fix? Make the rune grant a fixed size barrier when healed on a 5 second ICD when you're healed and revert Abrasive Grit!

This change is actually a buff to Abrasive Grit when others use the rune. It has nothing to do with the nerf or changes anything with that interaction.Fixed sized barrier would make it either easily exploitable by small heals or useless depending on the value.

[Dadnir.5038]

@Miellyn.6847 said:This change is actually a buff to Abrasive Grit when others use the rune.

I wouldn't go as far as saying that it's a buff to Abrasive Grit. Let's just say that now, other won't have a chance to trigger the trait if a scourge was fool enough to use the runeset with the trait equiped.

[Brynioch.1873]

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@Miellyn.6847 said:This change is actually a buff to Abrasive Grit when others use the rune.

I wouldn't go as far as saying that it's a buff to

Abrasive Grit

. Let's just say that now, other won't have a chance to trigger the trait if a scourge was fool enough to use the runeset with the trait equiped.

Vampiric Aura has the necromancer as the healer. This is actually a massive buff, especially if you want the change reverted as is it would also cause the same problem with immunity to conditions to ALL other team members of that necromancer.

[Dadnir.5038]

@Miellyn.6847 said:

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@Miellyn.6847 said:This change is actually a buff to Abrasive Grit when others use the rune.

I wouldn't go as far as saying that it's a buff to

Abrasive Grit

. Let's just say that now, other won't have a chance to trigger the trait if a scourge was fool enough to use the runeset with the trait equiped.

Vampiric Aura has the necromancer as the healer. This is actually a massive buff, especially if you want the change reverted as is it would also cause the same problem with immunity to conditions to ALL other team members of that necromancer.

Don't change the fact that this isn't a buff to abrasive grit at all due to the fact that the trait will trigger once every 5 seconds (the CD do not track the target) and thus easily wasted. And a barrier equal to 20% in value of a heal that reach 37 amount to 7 point of barrier with a 0.5s ICD, is... how do I say... Pitiable.

Want it or not, AG is a terrible match to this runeset with it's ICD. No scourge should even begin to start to think about using this trait in conjonction with the runeset with support in mind.

Sanctuary runeset isn't exactly the best runeset you can take if you want to support as a scourge, especially if you want to capitalize on AG.

[Aslakh.3072]

Seeing no fix to abrasive grit in the patch notes is dissapointing but expected. I don't know how people still expect that the sudden unjustified nerf to be a temporary fix. The change to the sanctuary rune set did not even attempt to fix the conflict between them either.

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

@Miellyn.6847 said:

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

Superior Rune of Sanctuary: The barrier gained from this rune is now granted by the healer.

You couldn't have given the rune an actual fix? Make the rune grant a fixed size barrier when healed on a 5 second ICD when you're healed and revert Abrasive Grit!

This change is actually a buff to Abrasive Grit when others use the rune. It has nothing to do with the nerf or changes anything with that interaction.Fixed sized barrier would make it either easily exploitable by small heals or useless depending on the value.

Fixed size barrier fixes the issue ANet said would be there if the rune had the ICD instead of Abrasive Grit, namely that a random tiny heal would put the rune on cooldown with a miniscule barrier, making it so teamplay is punished. However, if it's a fixed size barrier with an ICD, teamplay value remains, as it doesn't matter that you got a Vampiric Aura proc versus a Cleansing Wave.