Superior Runes of Sanctuary & Abrasive Grit [merged]

[Dadnir.5038]

They buried so many runeset with their patch yet they chose to bury the scourge to save a runeset which didn't need to be saved... Seriously... Rune of sanctuary wasn't popular before the patch why feel the need to protect it like that?

[EremiteAngel.9765]

@"Dadnir.5038" said:They buried so many runeset with their patch yet they chose to bury the scourge to save a runeset which didn't need to be saved... Seriously... Rune of sanctuary wasn't popular before the patch why feel the need to protect it like that?

According to google, sanctuary means "refuge or safety from pursuit, persecution, or other danger."

Maybe it's the name.

[Lahmia.2193]

@"killfil.3472" said:Man... got the same treatment as old "Chilling Darkness"...

F

Yup. It's exactly the same reasoning. Chilling Darkness exists since game begins. Bitter Chill comes along and makes it OP when used with Well of Darkness. Chilling Darkness gets nerfed. The first betrayal to necro that I can remember.

[Aktium.9506]

ayy lmao

i expected nothing less from anet <3

[Lahmia.2193]

@Eramonster.2718 said:By design, the rune can be applied to all classes. But its op only when it interacts with abrasive grit. When one of the two needed a tweak...

Imo if players want to continue on this, first the players need a reason why they should tweak a functioning rune for all classes, over a specific trait; of a specific class, to win this one.

Simply put. Because the trait has existed for over a year without any hint of being too powerful. You act as if the rune (in its current form) has existed for longer. It hasn't. Anet simply didn't fully test the thing and as a result, it was broken. A simple icd on the rune itself, as other powerful runes have would suffice.

[Nimon.7840]

From another thread:

@"Nimon.7840" said:The problem with the broken interaction of rune of sanctuary:

First what it does: gives you barrier for 20% of the amount you are healed.

Broken interaction:1.Use scourge with abrasive grit2.take bloodmagic vampiric presence

3. Take rune of sanctuary

Results in:Get 2 might per hit and cleanse a condition.So hitting 5 targets will give 10might and cleanse 5 conditions.

The problem here. Anet will just address this issue with giving an icd on abrasive grit.

That's for 100% sure.Which is definetly not the right way to balance.Cause it's not abrasive grit, which is broken. It's the rune

Maybe i should start working for anet xD

[Tanner Blackfeather.6509]

It seems pretty obvious that the interaction wasn't quite what was intended.Rune effect on its own - not OP.Trait effect on its own - not OP.Interaction - LOL-level OP.

Thus, the change needed was to rein in the interaction between them, preferably with a minimum of harm to either.An ICD on the rune could mean you get 20% barrier of a piddly 400 heal that happens to land just before the 3k heal, thus severly reducing the rune's effectiveness.The trait seems designed primarily for sustain rather than burst condi clear and isn't actually affected by how big the barrier triggering it is, so an ICD on that brings a lot lesser harm to its function.

Show a situation other than interacting with this rune that's noticably harmed by an ICD on the trait. When else is there a significant inflow of several pulses of Barrier per second?

[NecroSummonsMors.7816]

@Nimon.7840 said:From another thread:

@Nimon.7840 said:The problem with the broken interaction of rune of sanctuary:

First what it does: gives you barrier for 20% of the amount you are healed.

Broken interaction:1.Use scourge with abrasive grit2.take bloodmagic vampiric presence

3. Take rune of sanctuary

Results in:Get 2 might per hit and cleanse a condition.So hitting 5 targets will give 10might and cleanse 5 conditions.

The problem here. Anet will just address this issue with giving an icd on abrasive grit.

That's for 100% sure.Which is definetly not the right way to balance.Cause it's not abrasive grit, which is broken. It's the rune

Maybe i should start working for anet xD

I think so too, but you would be able to do dumb decision as them, so i dont really know if it favors you xD It for sure demonstrate you can predict their thinking.Other than the interecation with vampiric presence and abrasive gift, remain the fact that this rune is broken when you have a dedicated healer healing you, because you still receive the barrier from the heal you receive, which is just another proof of how broken the rune is

[Brynioch.1873]

@Lahmia.2193 said:

@Eramonster.2718 said:By design, the rune can be applied to all classes. But its op only when it interacts with abrasive grit. When one of the two needed a tweak...

Imo if players want to continue on this, first the players need a reason why they should tweak a functioning rune for all classes, over a specific trait; of a specific class, to win this one.

Simply put. Because the trait has existed for over a year without any hint of being too powerful. You act as if the rune (in its current form) has existed for longer. It hasn't. Anet simply didn't fully test the thing and as a result, it was broken. A simple icd on the rune itself, as other powerful runes have would suffice.

@Omnicron.2467 said:

@Conqueror.3682 said:This is stupid, the solution was so simple, how they could fail in something so simple?

Why dont they just nerfed the rune? and problem solved

Yeah, personally I expected an ICD on the Rune, not on traits. If the rune has a reasonable ICD the whole broken mess goes away

An ICD on the rune would just make it useless while the trait still works with an ICD but 3 seconds would have been enough.Also might generation got buffed only condition cleanse got a nerf.

[Eramonster.2718]

Which exist longer doesn't decide anything in this case. The conflict "now" is when X and Y interacts together, it's create an unwanted scenario. Who is to blame(?) dev for not predicting this or players exploiting it is not the point. The one thing which is clear to all is one of it (X or Y) have to be tweaked.

Personally and I believe many others dislike this exploit. One of the two needed to be tuned down and if you're defending X over Y, a solid reason needs to be brought out. The rune is currently functioning "as intended" providing barriers converted from heals to the users regardless of class. There is also possibility of the rune become worthless for all classes and even for necros after placing an internal cd. A strong reason reflecting the mentioned or similar to it needs to be raised for it to be considered.

[Chimera.8263]

Perma stealth deadeyes one-shooting everyone from 1500 - no problem here.Spellbreakers with perma resistance, ton of blocks, invul, evades - no balance issue here as well.Daredevils one-shooting you with vault+steal combo without any tell from 1200 - nope, working as inteded.Soulbeast hitting you for 25k+ (usually from stealth) with maul, world impact - good balance here bois.Mirage keeping ton of different condis on you for entire fight - it's healthy for game balance.

But necro that can survive on its own against full condi builds without being baby-sitted by firebrand? We can't have that in our game! NERF!

[Lahmia.2193]

@Miellyn.6847 said:

@Lahmia.2193 said:

@Eramonster.2718 said:By design, the rune can be applied to all classes. But its op only when it interacts with abrasive grit. When one of the two needed a tweak...

Imo if players want to continue on this, first the players need a reason why they should tweak a functioning rune for all classes, over a specific trait; of a specific class, to win this one.

Simply put. Because the trait has existed for over a year without any hint of being too powerful. You act as if the rune (in its current form) has existed for longer. It hasn't. Anet simply didn't fully test the thing and as a result, it was broken. A simple icd on the rune itself, as other powerful runes have would suffice.

@Omnicron.2467 said:

@Conqueror.3682 said:This is stupid, the solution was so simple, how they could fail in something so simple?

Why dont they just nerfed the rune? and problem solved

Yeah, personally I expected an ICD on the Rune, not on traits. If the rune has a reasonable ICD the whole broken mess goes away

An ICD on the rune would just make it useless while the trait still works with an ICD but 3 seconds would have been enough.Also might generation got buffed only condition cleanse got a nerf.

Depending on who you ask, the condition cleanse was the reason to take the trait.

[EremiteAngel.9765]

@"Chimera.8263" said:Perma stealth deadeyes one-shooting everyone from 1500 - no problem here.Spellbreakers with perma resistance, ton of blocks, invul, evades - no balance issue here as well.Daredevils one-shooting you with vault+steal combo without any tell from 1200 - nope, working as inteded.Soulbeast hitting you for 25k+ (usually from stealth) with maul, world impact - good balance here bois.Mirage keeping ton of different condis on you for entire fight - it's healthy for game balance.

But necro that can survive on its own against full condi builds without being baby-sitted by firebrand? We can't have that in our game! NERF!

I agree with all the other broken stuff you mentioned but they are mainly related to solo/small scale WvW roaming and sadly we are in the minority. It isn't a major concern like PvE or large Zerg fights in WvW or on point fights in PvP. I wish we were given more thought and priority though when it comes to balancing but unfortunately WvW is a multifaceted game mode that isn't easy to balance. They should have given us a new elite spec that is more focused on solo/small scale which would have made balancing better instead of another aoe slow sluggish short ranged Scourge.

[Astralporing.1957]

@perilisk.1874 said:The situation was dire enough that they probably just wanted to make the problem go away ASAP. Hopefully they double back later and make a softer fix that only affects the problem with the rune interaction (e.g. replace the ICD with a minimum barrier application requirement).Like they did with Smiter's Boon...oh wait.

[Cranky wo Coffee.5914]

I'm still holding judgment but the whole thing seems like a drunken hold my beer meme.

[Astralporing.1957]

@"Eramonster.2718" said:Which exist longer doesn't decide anything in this case. The conflict "now" is when X and Y interacts together, it's create an unwanted scenario. Who is to blame(?) dev for not predicting this or players exploiting it is not the point. The one thing which is clear to all is one of it (X or Y) have to be tweaked.There are actually more parameters to this than just "rune effect" and "abrasive grit". For example, the real culprit - life siphon - that ended up completely ignored whiole it was the very thing that had to be fixed, leaving the rune and trait untouched.Consider, that they have seemed to already consider this kind of problems, because regeneration doesn't trigger the rune effect. They should have just done the same for life siphon, and everything would have been fine. Without unnecessarily nerfing necro.

[santso.9201]

Lol they rly rather nerfed necro than fix The actually problem. 5s is way too long, RIP support scourge.

[Dadnir.5038]

@"EremiteAngel.9765" said:I agree with all the other broken stuff you mentioned but they are mainly related to solo/small scale WvW roaming and sadly we are in the minority. It isn't a major concern like PvE or large Zerg fights in WvW or on point fights in PvP. I wish we were given more thought and priority though when it comes to balancing but unfortunately WvW is a multifaceted game mode that isn't easy to balance. They should have given us a new elite spec that is more focused on solo/small scale which would have made balancing better instead of another aoe slow sluggish short ranged Scourge.

Well we can't really blame ANet for giving us an e-spec that was supposed to be oriented toward support. The necromancer badly needed some support, it's just that nobody thought that ANet would give us unorthodox support. We can't blame ANet either for giving scourge some damage because we were sure that whatever support they give us it would be wasted without damage on top of it.

The only thing that can be blamed is their lack of foresight when they release things. Be it some of the e-specs mechanisms or some runesets, they definitely suffer from a huge lack of foresight which might be prevented by testing change on test servers before implementing them. Even releasing patch note before they implement the change might help them prevent such situations thanks to players feedback.

The scourge have a monopole on some mechanisms that make him "mandatory" in very specific niches. Outside of that he is below average at best, changes that make him weaker don't change the fact that they got the monopole of the mechanisms. Abrasive grit nerf make support scourge weaker in it's main role but don't change the fact that he got it's monopoly which mean more scourges will be needed for the same effect.

It's beyond me to see something balanced nerfed for the sake of something new due to unforseen interaction. How could it not be forseen?

[Laila Lightness.8742]

Regen is passive healing unlike life steal wich is a form of direct healing

[Tanner Blackfeather.6509]

@Lahmia.2193 said:

@Miellyn.6847 said:

@Lahmia.2193 said:

@Eramonster.2718 said:By design, the rune can be applied to all classes. But its op only when it interacts with abrasive grit. When one of the two needed a tweak...

Imo if players want to continue on this, first the players need a reason why they should tweak a functioning rune for all classes, over a specific trait; of a specific class, to win this one.

Simply put. Because the trait has existed for over a year without any hint of being too powerful. You act as if the rune (in its current form) has existed for longer. It hasn't. Anet simply didn't fully test the thing and as a result, it was broken. A simple icd on the rune itself, as other powerful runes have would suffice.

@Omnicron.2467 said:

@Conqueror.3682 said:This is stupid, the solution was so simple, how they could fail in something so simple?

Why dont they just nerfed the rune? and problem solved

Yeah, personally I expected an ICD on the Rune, not on traits. If the rune has a reasonable ICD the whole broken mess goes away

An ICD on the rune would just make it useless while the trait still works with an ICD but 3 seconds would have been enough.Also might generation got buffed only condition cleanse got a nerf.

Depending on who you ask, the condition cleanse was the reason to take the trait.

I agree that this nerf was too heavy handed. I 1s ICD on the trait would have been enough to stop the unintended interaction while not overly impact other uses of the trait.

[ElderNewt.5840]

@Eramonster.2718 said:By design, the rune can be applied to all classes. But its op only when it interacts with abrasive grit. When one of the two needed a tweak...

Imo if players want to continue on this, first the players need a reason why they should tweak a functioning rune for all classes, over a specific trait; of a specific class, to win this one.

As far as I could see the biggest issue with it was how it interacted with lifesteal.We know they can adjust things to ignore things like Regen and Lifesteal.It's giving out two confusing things - is LIFESTEAL an actual HEAL or not. Because if it is.. There are many other traits, runes etc that would work with Lifesteal.

But the biggest issue now is that 5 ICD is a too bigger nerf. 3 seconds would of been the ideal number to go by really (imho)

[LINKAZZATORE.8135]

i wonder how many people and comments got removed in this thread for such poor decisions making by the balance team once again

[Walhalla.5473]

Yay a panic-fix that doesn't solve the problem but at least screws with some abilities of necros... which never happened... right? RIGHT?

The rune itself is a problem since with it Anet can't ever create another trait that interacts with barrier application because that trait would either combo hard with the rune or it would have an ICD long enough to make it useless. ( I'm pretty sure that we will see another spec with a good amount of barrier application in the future ).

The rune itself has much more potential for broken combos, so the rune should have gotten the hammer. Not the trait and not with a 5 seconds ICD.I'm pretty sure that we'll see some broken interaction with the rune again in the future but this time with another class.

[XECOR.2814]

The whole situation is extremely disappointing to necromancer players. The image of us being complainers in the community does not help either. But anet needs to understand this situation and do something.

People do not understand that even with those broken runes scourge was killed so easily by power classes and ranged damage. This means how low the survivability of scourge is.I get they wanted it to be support or teamfighter with support so that support handles the survivability aspect. But the individual survivability of scourge is soooo low that its not even funny. The only solution is to give mobility options so that it buffs survivability indirectly. So only good players could utilize it. But since we are pigeonholed as aoe caster we cant get mobility too. Hence we are are stuck in this deadlock because of anets imaginary rules for this class.

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

Will this change fix the crazy barrier uptime? Saw a 20 person guild grp in wvw last night all running this rune and everyone had barrier 100% of the time